AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[Pulkit]

Russia has massive funds from oil & gas exports. 50% of gas in Europe is Russian. Russia exports more oil than KSA. Funding is not a problem. But India will not go for FGFA as India wants 100% indigenisation which Russia will not agree

I doubt that.... 100% is a distant dream and given the world today I do not even believe that's economical.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

^^^ You guys seriously take VSTOL too seriously. Have you ever heard LSA's name anywhere else except these forums.

Why should we not take it seriously. I have discussed with him and read many of his posts discussing with many guys with aviation back ground. He has in depth knowledge of the subject. Though I am not an expert in the area but I found him to be very impressive. Since, IDF has closed, I don't know where he is and what is the status of LSA. I am very impressed with that design and I think that ADA guys should call him and take his advice in designing the all future planes.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Lca can achieve 35 degree of aoa in dog fight

Give reference.

Jf17 thunder radar detection range for tejas 10.5 kms
Only AWACS or heavy weight aircraft can detect tejas jet at a longer distance
Tejas is best multirole fighter for iaf
Rafale detect tejas 40km distance
Typhoon detect tejas 19 km distance
F16 detect tejas 10km distance
Gripen detect tejas 9km distance
Mirage detect tejas 25km distance

BS and many self contradictory claims.
JF 17 can detect Tejas from 10.5 km and Gripen can detect it at 9 KM distance?
Do you want to say that Thunder's radar is more powerful than the radar of Gripen.
All figures quoted are BS.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

We already have RAM

No W don't have. Had we have it, all of our planes would have been stealth by now.

 

[mystic avatar]

Russia has massive funds from oil & gas exports. 50% of gas in Europe is Russian. Russia exports more oil than KSA. Funding is not a problem. But India will not go for FGFA as India wants 100% indigenisation which Russia will not agree

Russia is an oil supplying nation but their economy is in trouble for quite some time. The back breaking US sanctions and lack of diversification of earnings is big problem for Russia. Ruble has decline many folds in past decade.

Coming to FGFA: Its not just money but also lack of infra that has crippled russian aviation industry for quite some time. Russian civil aircraft production is in nosedive for quite some time now their military aviation is also following the same. SU-57 is a prime example of this outdated industry.

100% Indigenization is not possible. We never chased it nor it was ever offered to us. We simply wanted a 5th gen bird with custom components.

 

[gryphus-scarface]

No W don't have. Had we have it, all of our planes would have been stealth by now.

We do have RAM protecting from various frequencies. https://www.thebetterindia.com/166010/iit-kanpur-india-innovation-invention-army-stealth-news/

Tejas's public available frontal RCS is 0.5m^2. That isn't achievable with size alone. And it doesn't have any of the shaping that modern stealth fighters have. So RAM is the only way left to achieve this.

And stealth is far more than just RAM. We also need shaping, which is why Ghatak and AMCA look they way they do.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

We do have RAM protecting from various frequencies. https://www.thebetterindia.com/166010/iit-kanpur-india-innovation-invention-army-stealth-news/

Tejas's public available frontal RCS is 0.5m^2. That isn't achievable with size alone. And it doesn't have any of the shaping that modern stealth fighters have. So RAM is the only way left to achieve this.

And stealth is far more than just RAM. We also need shaping, which is why Ghatak and AMCA look they way they do.

RAM is already there but it is far away from the paints used for Fifth generation planes. By the time MK2 comes in, we would half prepared RAM we intend to use in AMCA. Still we shall be able to achieve 0.1 to 0.2 Sq Mt RCS for Tejas Mk2 with combo of RAM, Shaping and Composite.

 

[tejascot]

Give reference.


BS and many self contradictory claims.
JF 17 can detect Tejas from 10.5 km and Gripen can detect it at 9 KM distance?
Do you want to say that Thunder's radar is more powerful than the radar of Gripen.
All figures quoted are BS.

Gripen c/d variant jet can detect tejasmk1 up to 18+km

Sent from my Alfa L using Tapatalk

 

[tsunami]

Why should we not take it seriously. I have discussed with him and read many of his posts discussing with many guys with aviation back ground. He has in depth knowledge of the subject. Though I am not an expert in the area but I found him to be very impressive. Since, IDF has closed, I don't know where he is and what is the status of LSA. I am very impressed with that design and I think that ADA guys should call him and take his advice in designing the all future planes.

I know he is an Ex Naval Pilot. His knowledge regarding battle tactics and previous operation history is amazing. I do respect his opinion, and his knowledge of things. But I am sorry guy does have a tendency to exaggerate things. You need to always take his words with pinch of salt. And as far as LSA is concerned he is talking about it last 4-5 years. Tejas Mk1A never existed at the time. And I am yet to hear about it from any official in Govt., MOD, IAF, IN, ADA, HAL and DRDO. Never heard about it beyond these forums. IDF is closed but you can find them all on Strategic Frontier.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

I'll ask you this one thing : why is the Su-57 so lacking in stealth? It misses out on basic thinks like serpentine intakes, something even the AMCA will have. According to you they have funds, and judging by the various Flankers and Fulcrums, they clearly have the expertise. So, I'll ask you again, why is the Su-57 so lacking?

I don't know as I have not studied Su57 or its stealth. But I have researched and studied on the Russian economy. So, I know for sure that Russia is in a better economic state than even countries like UK, France, Italy etc and will be extremely impressive by 2025. Russia will have a great going henceforth

I doubt that.... 100% is a distant dream and given the world today I do not even believe that's economical.

100% is not a distant dream and you have wierd notion of the world! 100% only in defence items, not civilian ones. Even in defence items things like parachute and few other simpler things can be imported. The 100% of high end technology must be with India. There is no substitute

Why should we not take it seriously. I have discussed with him and read many of his posts discussing with many guys with aviation back ground. He has in depth knowledge of the subject. Though I am not an expert in the area but I found him to be very impressive. Since, IDF has closed, I don't know where he is and what is the status of LSA. I am very impressed with that design and I think that ADA guys should call him and take his advice in designing the all future planes.

Because he is one man and one man can never plan such details. Making a plane that flies is not a big issue. It is the performance that matters. Such minute details like position of rivets, position of fasteners, position of LRU, material used, thickness of body parts, angle of various protruding parts like tail, nosecone etc will require so much of detailed work and is impossible to be done by one man

Russia is an oil supplying nation but their economy is in trouble for quite some time. The back breaking US sanctions and lack of diversification of earnings is big problem for Russia. Ruble has decline many folds in past decade.

Coming to FGFA: Its not just money but also lack of infra that has crippled russian aviation industry for quite some time. Russian civil aircraft production is in nosedive for quite some time now their military aviation is also following the same. SU-57 is a prime example of this outdated industry.

100% Indigenization is not possible. We never chased it nor it was ever offered to us. We simply wanted a 5th gen bird with custom components.

USA sanction has only good effect on Russia. Rusian economy is healthy and improving. Russia never depended on USA financial system and hence USA sanction never mattered. In fact, Russia is a net creditor and has given more money to other countries thatn what it took. USA is in fact a net debtor.

Russia has got time to get back its infrastructure online cince 2000 and it has done that wonderfully well.

 

[Pulkit]

100% is not a distant dream and you have wierd notion of the world! 100% only in defence items, not civilian ones. Even in defence items things like parachute and few other simpler things can be imported. The 100% of high end technology must be with India. There is no substitute.

100% is a distant dream if you talk on economical sense + you cannot perfect each and every technology.
Even in your statement you said High End Technology and not everything so..... how do I am the one having weird notion?

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

100% is a distant dream if you talk on economical sense + you cannot perfect each and every technology.
Even in your statement you said High End Technology and not everything so..... how do I am the one having weird notion?

Why can't India perfect every technology? What is stopping? Also, how economy comes when it is about defence? Defence is separate from economy in functionality

 

[garg_bharat]

Why can't India perfect every technology? What is stopping? Also, how economy comes when it is about defence? Defence is separate from economy in functionality

Boss products are made by machines. Machines used for defence, even civil products are very high tech products. For example not a single machine for semiconductor manufacturing is made in India.

If India wants to set up an IC fab or IC packaging unit, all machines have to be imported.

Suppose you want to build a fighter jet. You need top of the line electronics and engine technology for it. India does not have it. India is still lagging is basic research though things are improving. But long way to go before India reaches competitive level in high tech machinery.

You can buy anything you want but it is not cheap. So money factor automatically comes into play.

Russia is better than us in defence products, but Russia also imports machinery to build these products.

Lets accept that India has a high dependence on imports in some key areas. India will have to walk in step with key world players for the foreseeable future.

There is nothing wrong in importing stuff though. Trade is good for economy and defence too.

 

[Pulkit]

Why can't India perfect every technology? What is stopping? Also, how economy comes when it is about defence? Defence is separate from economy in functionality

Actually, there is nothing like perfect in terms of technology its always developing. You cannot wait till you develop everything to an acceptable level. What is stopping...It takes time experience and money alot of it. In functionality might be but they are interdependent at some level.

Boss products are made by machines. Machines used for defence, even civil products are very high tech products. For example not a single machine for semiconductor manufacturing is made in India.

If India wants to set up an IC fab or IC packaging unit, all machines have to be imported.

I would have agreed to this 5 years back today I do believe we have home made machines but today I have seen and know we have the tech know how to build such machines and we do have now.

Suppose you want to build a fighter jet. You need top of the line electronics and engine technology for it. India does not have it. India is still lagging is basic research though things are improving. But long way to go before India reaches competitive level in high tech machinery.

That I will agree

You can buy anything you want but it is not cheap. So money factor automatically comes into play.

Sometime you avoid building yourself because its cheaper and better to procure from outside.

Russia is better than us in defence products, but Russia also imports machinery to build these products.

Yup

Lets accept that India has a high dependence on imports in some key areas. India will have to walk in step with key world players for the foreseeable future.

There is nothing wrong in importing stuff though. Trade is good for economy and defence too.[/QUOTE]

Yeah sad but true.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Boss products are made by machines. Machines used for defence, even civil products are very high tech products. For example not a single machine for semiconductor manufacturing is made in India.

If India wants to set up an IC fab or IC packaging unit, all machines have to be imported.

Suppose you want to build a fighter jet. You need top of the line electronics and engine technology for it. India does not have it. India is still lagging is basic research though things are improving. But long way to go before India reaches competitive level in high tech machinery.

You can buy anything you want but it is not cheap. So money factor automatically comes into play.

Russia is better than us in defence products, but Russia also imports machinery to build these products.

Lets accept that India has a high dependence on imports in some key areas. India will have to walk in step with key world players for the foreseeable future.

There is nothing wrong in importing stuff though. Trade is good for economy and defence too.

How is trade good if it is unfavourable trade?

Also, who told you that India can't make the machinery itself? How do you think others made the machines? Just because your foreseeable future is 1-2 years does not mean everyone thinks that way.

Don't talk on things you don't understand

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Actually, there is nothing like perfect in terms of technology its always developing. You cannot wait till you develop everything to an acceptable level. What is stopping...It takes time experience and money alot of it. In functionality might be but they are interdependent at some level.

But we can use whatever we have. That is the point I am trying to make by 100% indigenous.

Suppose you want to build a fighter jet. You need top of the line electronics and engine technology for it. India does not have it. India is still lagging is basic research though things are improving. But long way to go before India reaches competitive level in high tech machinery.

Yeah that is why we have SCL to make chipset, HAL to make engine and avionics and BEl to make other electronics.. India is not lagging but you are lagging in basic research of what capability India has and that is your problem.

 

[Shekhar Singh]

Why should we not take it seriously. I have discussed with him and read many of his posts discussing with many guys with aviation back ground. He has in depth knowledge of the subject. Though I am not an expert in the area but I found him to be very impressive. Since, IDF has closed, I don't know where he is and what is the status of LSA. I am very impressed with that design and I think that ADA guys should call him and take his advice in designing the all future planes.

He is on other forum (strategic frontier)and now LSA is no more LSA, it is MSA with two engines.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

He is on other forum (strategic frontier)and now LSA is no more LSA, it is MSA with two engines.

Such a quick upgrade!! Lol! He must be like Tony Stark type genius

 

[Megalomaniac]

I read some nanotechnogy or self repair thing on wiki about AMCA. What about that?

 

[Steven Rogers]

I read some nanotechnogy or self repair thing on wiki about AMCA. What about that?

Self heal self repair is for the flight controls and communications,the later will avialable in the tejas mk1a,while mwf might have both.