AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[gryphus-scarface]

Does anyone know if a stealthy version of the IRST is being developed like the one in F-22

We need to develop an IRST first. ADA has said that sensors and avionics will be shared as much as possible between the AMCA and MWF. IRST is still in intial stages of development for MWF.

http://makeinindiadefence.gov.in/projects/projectlist/2/1

 

[Steven Rogers]

Let say,If they are going to include dsi,does it affect proposed timeline for the first flight?
Plz do provide the link for the brochure you mentioned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/delhidefencereview/46483003524/

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

We need to develop an IRST first. ADA has said that sensors and avionics will be shared as much as possible between the AMCA and MWF. IRST is still in intial stages of development for MWF.

http://makeinindiadefence.gov.in/projects/projectlist/2/1

IRST development started last year only. So, it will take at least 4-5 years for completion. But the question is how to house the IRST in a stealthy manenr which does not increase RCS for AMCA

 

[gryphus-scarface]

IRST development started last year only. So, it will take at least 4-5 years for completion. But the question is how to house the IRST in a stealthy manenr which does not increase RCS for AMCA

Do you know how well development is going? Latest I can find is that BEL is developing it. Housing can be modified after the initial IRST is developed.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Do you know how well development is going? Latest I can find is that BEL is developing it. Housing can be modified after the initial IRST is developed.

The IRST will be on the basis of Su30 IRST. I am not sure how progress is. But housing matters a lot in stealth planes. That is why I am asking

 

[IndianHawk]

The IRST will be on the basis of Su30 IRST. I am not sure how progress is. But housing matters a lot in stealth planes. That is why I am asking

Yes housing matters. That is why amca is taking the time it's taking.
http://fullafterburner.weebly.com/next-gen-weapons/amca-the-conqueror-in-making

Check this article it talks about these issues.
It's an old article but still gives a very detailed information of ideas behind amca.

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[gryphus-scarface]

Does anyone know if a stealthy version of the IRST is being developed like the one in F-22

It looks like the F-22 doesn't actually have an IRST. Apparently the USAF decided against it to keep costs down, but the Raptor has space to include it in the future. That's interesting. Arguably puts the Raptor at a slight disadvantage against a proper stealth plane like itself.

 

[Adrian Corvus]

It looks like the F-22 doesn't actually have an IRST. Apparently the USAF decided against it to keep costs down, but the Raptor has space to include it in the future. That's interesting. Arguably puts the Raptor at a slight disadvantage against a proper stealth plane like itself.

Does the J-20 have an irst? Su-57 has for sure.

 

[gryphus-scarface]

Does the J-20 have an irst? Su-57 has for sure.

Yes. Its hidden in the nose, and comes out when needed. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...stealth-fighter-offer-new-capability-insights

 

[Adrian Corvus]

Though Su-57's irst gives it an edge over F-22, it hinders the frontal stealth. Hope AMCA's irst isn't going to be 'non-stealth'.

Btw what are those gaps/holes below the vertical stabilizers. Also by this pictures it doesn't look like the canopy glass has been coated with Indium Tin oxide, does it?

 

[gryphus-scarface]

Though Su-57's irst gives it an edge over F-22, it hinders the frontal stealth. Hope AMCA's irst isn't going to be 'non-stealth'.

Btw what are those gaps/holes below the vertical stabilizers. Also by this pictures it doesn't look like the canopy glass has been coated with Indium Tin oxide, does it?

The Su-57 isn't actually very stealthy. Quite frankly its more like the Rafale or F/A-18E/F. It lacks serpentine intakes, its engine blades are out for the world to see. The fit and finish is poor at best, making it an LO aircraft at best. Then there's the IRST and the lack of canopy coating. Sad that the Russian plane industry has become like this.

I too would like to know what those holes are. Might be worth asking on the PAK-FA thread in the Military Aviation sub forum.

 

[IndianHawk]

The Su-57 isn't actually very stealthy. Quite frankly its more like the Rafale or F/A-18E/F. It lacks serpentine intakes, its engine blades are out for the world to see. The fit and finish is poor at best, making it an LO aircraft at best. Then there's the IRST and the lack of canopy coating. Sad that the Russian plane industry has become like this.

I too would like to know what those holes are. Might be worth asking on the PAK-FA thread in the Military Aviation sub forum.

They are loosing the battle of financial muscle to develop next gen weaponry. Within their limited budget priority is strategic weaponry.

But it will evolve just like su27 evolved to su30 to MKI to now su35.

The most important thing is item 30 engine .
If that becomes operational then India Russia can still design an fgfa around item 30 which will be proper Stealth with tighter body , supercruise etc.

But if item 30 is late or if India is going only for AMCA then evolution of su57 will be pretty slow.

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[Advaidhya Tiwari]

They are loosing the battle of financial muscle to develop next gen weaponry. Within their limited budget priority is strategic weaponry.

But it will evolve just like su27 evolved to su30 to MKI to now su35.

The most important thing is item 30 engine .
If that becomes operational then India Russia can still design an fgfa around item 30 which will be proper Stealth with tighter body , supercruise etc.

But if item 30 is late or if India is going only for AMCA then evolution of su57 will be pretty slow.

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Russia has enormous funds for defence. Russia is a net creditor to international countries and has massive financial strength in terms of oil and gas and self-sufficiency in food and other important goods.

Saying that Russia does not have defence funds is wrong. Russia always developed as a military economy, not a civilian economy and hence military R&D is well funded

 

[mystic avatar]

The Su-57 isn't actually very stealthy. Quite frankly its more like the Rafale or F/A-18E/F. It lacks serpentine intakes, its engine blades are out for the world to see. The fit and finish is poor at best, making it an LO aircraft at best. Then there's the IRST and the lack of canopy coating. Sad that the Russian plane industry has become like this.

I agree.

Russia lacks funds and infrastructure for developing next gen weapons. Remember Russia isn't USSR and will never be. Most Russian weapons are just improved version of old Soviet designs. They are financially and technologically behind west (USA+NATO) but their old nostalgia of USSR makes them think they can still compete so they are trying everything they can to stay relevant. Unfortunately their glory days are gone. SU-57 is not a lame effort but rather the best effort of Russian aviation industry but still it can't compete against west.

Russia has enormous funds for defence. Russia is a net creditor to international countries and has massive financial strength in terms of oil and gas and self-sufficiency in food and other important goods.

Saying that Russia does not have defence funds is wrong. Russia always developed as a military economy, not a civilian economy and hence military R&D is well funded

Unlike USSR who poured massive national resources in defense/technology programs, Russian defense industry is heavily reliant on exports to poor/developing countries looking for cheap alternative to western products with minimum strings attached. However since last decade China is competing against them in this space. Slowly China will become go to weapons dealer for poor/developing countries. This has and will in future negatively impact Russian defense industry.


Comping to FGFA: Russians were expecting that Indian funding might revive their aviation industry in future. However Indian planners took a close look at what they were offering and they weren't satisfied. This is end of FGFA story. The deal is dead.

AMCA is now the only way forward.

 

[IndianHawk]

Russia has enormous funds for defence. Russia is a net creditor to international countries and has massive financial strength in terms of oil and gas and self-sufficiency in food and other important goods.

Saying that Russia does not have defence funds is wrong. Russia always developed as a military economy, not a civilian economy and hence military R&D is well funded

With all these funds there military budget was similar to India. Mind you Russian spend 4 % of GDP of defense while India 2 % .

Indian defense budget by 2030 will be upwards 120billion . China will have 300-400 bily $ in defense spending. Where will the Russians be?

At number 4 or 5 or even lower. They simply can't sustain the expenditure and scale required for next gen warfare platforms.


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[Advaidhya Tiwari]

With all these funds there military budget was similar to India. Mind you Russian spend 4 % of GDP of defense while India 2 % .

Indian defense budget by 2030 will be upwards 120billion . China will have 300-400 bily $ in defense spending. Where will the Russians be?

At number 4 or 5 or even lower. They simply can't sustain the expenditure and scale required for next gen warfare platforms.


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Russia has lower labour cost and India has even lower labour cost. The amount of oil and gas in Russia is so huge that Russia will be able to do whatever they want

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Unlike USSR who poured massive national resources in defense/technology programs, Russian defense industry is heavily reliant on exports to poor/developing countries looking for cheap alternative to western products with minimum strings attached. However since last decade China is competing against them in this space. Slowly China will become go to weapons dealer for poor/developing countries. This has and will in future negatively impact Russian defense industry.


Comping to FGFA: Russians were expecting that Indian funding might revive their aviation industry in future. However Indian planners took a close look at what they were offering and they weren't satisfied. This is end of FGFA story. The deal is dead.

AMCA is now the only way forward.

Russia has massive funds from oil & gas exports. 50% of gas in Europe is Russian. Russia exports more oil than KSA. Funding is not a problem. But India will not go for FGFA as India wants 100% indigenisation which Russia will not agree

 

[Tang]

Russia has massive funds from oil & gas exports. 50% of gas in Europe is Russian. Russia exports more oil than KSA. Funding is not a problem. But India will not go for FGFA as India wants 100% indigenisation which Russia will not agree

Please read about Russian economy and why it shrunk in size.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Please read about Russian economy and why it shrunk in size.

I have done extensive research and I have exlained it - due to petrodollar deal struck by USA and Arabs that USA will arm islam and help it spread in return for selling oil in dollars. This in addition to lack of cultural homogeneity in USSR was used to destroy USSR from within

 

[gryphus-scarface]

I have done extensive research and I have exlained it - due to petrodollar deal struck by USA and Arabs that USA will arm islam and help it spread in return for selling oil in dollars. This in addition to lack of cultural homogeneity in USSR was used to destroy USSR from within

I'll ask you this one thing : why is the Su-57 so lacking in stealth? It misses out on basic thinks like serpentine intakes, something even the AMCA will have. According to you they have funds, and judging by the various Flankers and Fulcrums, they clearly have the expertise. So, I'll ask you again, why is the Su-57 so lacking?