AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[IndianHawk]

I read some nanotechnogy or self repair thing on wiki about AMCA. What about that?

Self healing is basically the ability of a network or communication system to recover from damage .
Usually it requires configuring multiple path with built in redundancy so when the network/ coms are attacked. They can find new path to function while avoiding damaged paths.

I'm guessing so take it with a pinch of salt.

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

 

[Tang]

Self healing is basically the ability of a network or communication system to recover from damage .
Usually it requires configuring multiple path with built in redundancy so when the network/ coms are attacked. They can find new path to function while avoiding damaged paths.

I'm guessing so take it with a pinch of salt.

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I think even f35 don't have this.

 

[Pulkit]

But we can use whatever we have. That is the point I am trying to make by 100% indigenous.

Its not good to make a aircraft that way..... you build what you can get best without compromising the capability of the aircraft and later slowly and steadily replacing the technologies with the home grown ones. That's how u make a home grown aircraft.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Its not good to make a aircraft that way..... you build what you can get best without compromising the capability of the aircraft and later slowly and steadily replacing the technologies with the home grown ones. That's how u make a home grown aircraft.

Quantity x Quality is the equation that is important. Quality of aircrafts can always be upgraded. Most of the quality is about softwares and electronics like EW, SPJ, radar detection etc which are 100% upgradable. More feedback that comes from indian equipment, more easier it will be to debug problems and upgrade

 

[no smoking]

Also, who told you that India can't make the machinery itself? How do you think others made the machines?

Just like other developing country, India can make some machinery, but the high precision machinery upon which military industries heavily rely are monopolized by western countries. They are treating these as strategic asset and restricting those top class machines exportation to non-allied countries.

 

[Kchontha]

Is DRDO/Ada developing radome for amca? What about body conformal antenna? I have not been aware of any development in these fronts. Though look small these are very crucial for amca development.

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[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Just like other developing country, India can make some machinery, but the high precision machinery upon which military industries heavily rely are monopolized by western countries. They are treating these as strategic asset and restricting those top class machines exportation to non-allied countries.

Only such machinery is in semiconductor industry to make 28nm, 22nm & 14nm chips. India does not have these but has almost all other machinery

 

[HariPrasad-1]

He is on other forum (strategic frontier)and now LSA is no more LSA, it is MSA with two engines.

LISA became MSA because of incomparable engine. LISA is already there and MSA evolved out of LISA.

 

[lcafanboy]

Only such machinery is in semiconductor industry to make 28nm, 22nm & 14nm chips. India does not have these but has almost all other machinery

We don't have advance CNC machines that produce precision parts like turbine blades for jet engines. Even Russians and chinese don't have those till now hence smokey engines like Klimov and chinese still struggling to produce a decent engine. But now chinese reverse engineered a cnc machine comparable to western standards, which was also procured by Russia.... These Machines are export controlled by all western countries....

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

We don't have advance CNC machines that produce precision parts like turbine blades for jet engines. Even Russians and chinese don't have those till now hence smokey engines like Klimov and chinese still struggling to produce a decent engine. But now chinese reverse engineered a cnc machine comparable to western standards, which was also procured by Russia.... These Machines are export controlled by all western countries....

WTF? Is Al31F a smoky engine? India makes Al31FP in India thanks to Russian TOT. Also, India has precision tooling as India has decent software coding ability and can make tools

 

[Kchontha]

We don't have advance CNC machines that produce precision parts like turbine blades for jet engines. Even Russians and chinese don't have those till now hence smokey engines like Klimov and chinese still struggling to produce a decent engine. But now chinese reverse engineered a cnc machine comparable to western standards, which was also procured by Russia.... These Machines are export controlled by all western countries....

Other than precision machining like CNC machine we are also lacking in advance metallurgy. It is unfortunate that we can't carry forward our tradition of ancient advance metallurgy work like that of rust free iron pillar of Delhi.

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[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Other than precision machining like CNC machine we are also lacking in advance metallurgy. It is unfortunate that we can't carry forward our tradition of ancient advance metallurgy work like that of rust free iron pillar of Delhi.

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Again, spreading fake news everywhere? How many times should I prove that Idnia has metallurgy and has made AL31F and has even completed Kaveri engine? We don't have rhenium metal and hence there is some problems with making higher TWR engine but that is not technology deficit

 

[lcafanboy]

WTF? Is Al31F a smoky engine? India makes Al31FP in India thanks to Russian TOT. Also, India has precision tooling as India has decent software coding ability and can make tools

Problem with you is you won't accept other's point. I won't be replying to any post after this. Just read how US controls advance machine tools and cnc machines. Compare Russian jet engine to any western engine you will find the answer. Check weight, thrust, service life, etc. They are better built due to advance Machines and these machines are controlled by western countries with govt controlling their sale, resale and transfer to new location, transportation, they keep eyes on each and every machine.....

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-CRPT-105hrpt851/html/ch10bod.html
U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY AND THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA -- CHAPTER 10

 

[Steven Rogers]

Is DRDO/Ada developing radome for amca? What about body conformal antenna? I have not been aware of any development in these fronts. Though look small these are very crucial for amca development.

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Go though aero india thread from start.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Problem with you is you won't accept other's point. I won't be replying to any post after this. Just read how US controls advance machine tools and cnc machines. Compare Russian jet engine to any western engine you will find the answer. Check weight, thrust, service life, etc. They are better built due to advance Machines and these machines are controlled by western countries with govt controlling their sale, resale and transfer to new location, transportation, they keep eyes on each and every machine.....

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-CRPT-105hrpt851/html/ch10bod.html
U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY AND THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA -- CHAPTER 10

This was 1996 article. The situation has changed now, The main reason for increased precision is increase in computation power due to increasing miniaturisation of semiconductor. In 1996, it was 350nm semiconductor in USA while China had older ones. But now, semiconductors have increased in sophistication in both India and China. So, precision tooling has become much easier and high precision can be obtained. There is no need for USA to supply them anymore.

India has its own high precision tooling available, thanks to R&D by DRDO, ISRO & PSUs. Even Russia has got advanced technology tools. Check the TWR of Al41f with F414 or F119. F135 engine is an exception as it is a 180kN engine and uses counter-rotation turbine which changes the normal engine dynamics. But all other smaller engines of US is comparable to Russia in TWR. Overhaul time depends on the method of maintenance. Henc that is not a god comparison. Nevertheless, Russian engines are not smoky in any manner and much more robust than USA ones.

As of now only technology which is exclusively with USA is semiconductor technology, especially of 22nm and 14nm lithography

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

TSMC of Taiwan has technology for 22nm and 14nm.
You see for semiconductor chips to be manufactured in India foundries need to be developed. India lacks large commercial scale foundries available with those of Intel & TSMC. For Silicon based foundry a minimum investment of 10-15 billion dollars are required. GOI lacks funds for that. Even the IISC proposal for a GaN based foundry with an initial investment plan of 3000 crore is put on hold. But mind you these chips are of civilian sectors like mobiles,laptops,IOT etc.
For defence and space based application 180nm node technology available at SCL,ISRO,Chandigarh is adequate for now but we need newer foundries in the future.
As far as chip designing we have come a long way and a lot of private companies,even IITB,M have come up with their own processor design but have to rely for foreign fab plants to manufature them.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

TSMC of Taiwan has technology for 22nm and 14nm.
You see for semiconductor chips to be manufactured in India foundries need to be developed. India lacks large commercial scale foundries available with those of Intel & TSMC. For Silicon based foundry a minimum investment of 10-15 billion dollars are required. GOI lacks funds for that. Even the IISC proposal for a GaN based foundry with an initial investment plan of 3000 crore is put on hold. But mind you these chips are of civilian sectors like mobiles,laptops,IOT etc.
For defence and space based application 180nm node technology available at SCL,ISRO,Chandigarh is adequate for now but we need newer foundries in the future.
As far as chip designing we have come a long way and a lot of private companies,even IITB,M have come up with their own processor design but have to rely for foreign fab plants to manufature them.

TSMC gets technology from USA. TSMC, Samsung etc never had any R&D in 1990 but suddenly USA came and gave them technology transfer but under strict condition that the technology will be under USA control and protected by its military. So, even TSMC foundry is essentially USA one jut given under TOT to build better relation with Taiwan.

Fund is not the problem but infrastructure and tecnology is the problem. Entire infrastructure like making of tools, processing of silicon, foundry needed for 28nm or below is exclusively controlled by USA & its military allies. Even if India pays big, getting technology will be difficult.China has been trying to buy these companies but USA is consistently vetoing it. Same case will be with India.

India already has GaN foundry and makes GaN modules. DRDO has stated that India is now making GaN radar development/ It was just a larger foundry at IISC which was not yet sanctioned and again it is unlikely that funds were short.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

TSMC has a huge r&d of 50 billion and is outside US control.Many USA fabless companies manufactures their chips in TSMC.
Also there are other big foundries . Even Russia, China, Germany and Israel have these.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundry_model#Dedicated_foundry

 

[no smoking]

Only such machinery is in semiconductor industry to make 28nm, 22nm & 14nm chips. India does not have these but has almost all other machinery

Who tell that.
High precision machinery is being used to produce key mechanical components of military equipment such as: wheel bearing, frame, propeller, blade, etc. Russia, China have been lagging behind in this area for quite long time. When your high precision machinery is not good, there will be a series problems:
1. due to bigger processing variance, you have to increase the redundancy in the design, the result is your equipment is bigger and heavier than others;
2. due to the inferior precision, the functionality of the products can't reach the design target;
etc, etc.

Developing countries can import high end machinery from west, but these machine are generally qualified for commercial usage. India is facing the same problem.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

TSMC has a huge r&d of 50 billion and is outside US control.Many USA fabless companies manufactures their chips in TSMC.
Also there are other big foundries . Even Russia, China, Germany and Israel have these.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundry_model#Dedicated_foundry

None other than USA military allies have 22nm or below foundries. China, has now started such foundry but it is yet to achieve perfection.

Taiwan does have R&D fund but that does not mean that it is developing the technology on its own. It is USA supplied technology. Otherwise, tell me when did Taiwan first get semiconductor industry and how did it advance so quickly, even faster than China? USA gives the technology and it is under USA military control.

Germnany, Russia and Israel don't have 22nm foundry. China is the only non-USA ally to have 22nm foundry and that is still being perfected for high yield.

Who tell that.
High precision machinery is being used to produce key mechanical components of military equipment such as: wheel bearing, frame, propeller, blade, etc. Russia, China have been lagging behind in this area for quite long time. When your high precision machinery is not good, there will be a series problems:
1. due to bigger processing variance, you have to increase the redundancy in the design, the result is your equipment is bigger and heavier than others;
2. due to the inferior precision, the functionality of the products can't reach the design target;
etc, etc.

Developing countries can import high end machinery from west, but these machine are generally qualified for commercial usage. India is facing the same problem.

Developing these high end machinery is the first step in developing military items. So,China, Russia, india all will first develop these things before going to develop military gadget. There is a reason why russia is able to make Su35. Su57 or China is able to make J10, J20 plane- it is because these countries also have the tooling. Similarly, india also has developed the needed tools. It is not some random commercial tooling from west as these are given under sttrict condition of non-military sue and no-reverse engineering. Checks are also made regularly by USA inspectors to verify

As of now, only semiconductor tools & technology is with USA. Even there, China is fast catching up. But for military use, 180-90nm is enough and hence it is still doable