AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[Anikastha]

Well, I also agree that it isn't nice for a scientist to be religious he worked too instead of leaving everything. Nor he practized face in any disgusting way. Sometimes, going Temple before doing a new initiation becomes a trend.
We will further talk when you'll be able to launch rockets like RadhaKrishnan.

That was a smack on his face.....
One should have belief in faith....

 

[salute]

@pmaitra. Can you please open a thread? We need to discuss it in-depth. Here are 2 pictures of ISRO chairman, Dr. K. Radhakrishnan. He is pleading with Lord Tirupati on the eve of launch of GSLV MK II to make it a success (Top), thanks giving after successful launch on 5.1.14 (Bottom). He has more faith in divine intervention than his knowledge of physics. And making India a laughing-stock in the process around the world.
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so whats wrong about it if he is praying,
do you think nasa people dont pray to their god,

He has more faith in divine intervention than his knowledge of physics. And making India a laughing-stock in the process around the world.

he is not doing some voodoo or black magic or something,
or following some asaramji,
you talk like you know him personally that all he do is just keep worshiping and not working on the projects,

he obviously got a lot of work pressure so whats wrong if spirituality if it gives peace of mind and confidence for work,

maybe you read a lot of stupid communist idiots articles.

 

[garg_bharat]

It is not about size of companies...it is the scale and quality of their work which is beyond Indians. Both Microsoft & Google started out of garages with meagre resources, 100 times less than Infosys, TCS etc. They reached dizzying heights by sheer brilliance of their products, in about 12-13 years. What our desi companies achieved in the same span of time ?

Infosys also started out of garage, and so many other companies.

You forget that USA nurtures tech companies. Microsoft may have started out of garage, but it is very easy to get funding in the USA. Not same in India.

 

[cannonfodder]

Just the other day this same individual was also blabbering regarding how LCA is cheap copy of mirage. Nothing more should be expected from bogus commie intellectuals.

I remember Sachin doing puja of cricket stumps after returning from tennis elbow injury. He surely had no faith in his abilities, his spirit or his hardwork as well and left everything to god for his recovery to intl cricket.:biggrin2:

Commies have successfully degraded this thread to new lows.

It is not about size of companies...it is the scale and quality of their work which is beyond Indians.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

@sasum Tejas doesnt have orthodox delta wing like mirage-2000.

It has a cranker or deouble delta twisted at root and has the lowest RCS ,i.e less than 0.3 sq meters, (mirage-2000 an orthodox delta has 1 plus sq meter RCS) in clean config.


Thanks to @ersakthivel

Just the other day this same individual was also blabbering regarding how LCA is cheap copy of mirage. Nothing more should be expected from bogus commie intellectuals.

I remember Sachin doing puja of cricket stumps after returning from tennis elbow injury. He surely had no faith in his abilities, his spirit or his hardwork as well and left everything to god for his recovery to intl cricket.:biggrin2:

Commies have successfully degraded this thread to new lows.

 

[sasum]

Infosys also started out of garage, and so many other companies.

You forget that USA nurtures tech companies. Microsoft may have started out of garage, but it is very easy to get funding in the USA. Not same in India.

Microsoft didn't get venture funding. Infosys was not started out of garage.

 

[SilverSabre]

That's what we've become. Trigger happy and quick to react. The guy gave his view point, you didn't like it then ignore and the topic will die out automatically.

Refrain from getting distracted and getting to duels. Let's not troll the forum and let's share solid info.

Stick with AMCA

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

I came across this post of yours today and can't fathom the lack of understanding of defence procedures and projects of Mr. Ranjan who wrote the article. Initially I thought of highlighting a few inconsistencies and gaps in the article but by the time I finished it I gave up the idea as I find author's research very rudimentary and he has no idea about defence projects or any complex project management. So I brushed aside the article as a sub-standard piece of junk you come across the news pieces in general.

No offence to you, but I guess before you share such articles in your eagerness, please step back and analyse what the reporter is trying to imply.

After all the doom and gloom the article highlighted about the HAL's operations and pathetic delays and process maturity I give some analogies to which you may be able to appreciate the point I am making.

We all know the maturity of our IT services sector and are proud of it and many of us have seen companies like TCS, Infosys, HCL and Wipro become the giants they are today in front of our eyes in matter of 1-2 decade. Now imagine a whole aircraft industry with only 1 player in the country HAL. Healthy & Competition fosters rapid advancements and process maturity. What 5-10 big IT firms achieved in 2 decades a single player will take forever to reach there. In that context HAL's achievements are laudable.

Regarding delays, any project management team sets a project for a stipulated time and money resources, but defence projects have major dependencies on the political policy making. Marut got stuck in the embargo that came into picture after India's Nuclear test. almost half of the Maruts were not used due to lack of engines and spare parts available for India.

So IAF couldn't do much with Marut even though intention was there. Please also keep in mind, India chose to work on LCA because India's past experience & capability was to work only on a Light configuration aircraft. Please check the aircraft comparisons at below links.

Marut - http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=366
LCA - http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=861

HAL still doesn't have the skills and capability know how to develop and manage an aircraft with a high thrust engine. A high thrust engine needs a stringent and robust airframe with even more complex fly by wire controls, that makes the equation even more complex.

Just imagine for upgrading GE Engine from F404 to F414, HAL is tying up with SAAB to improvise on LCA's performance and engines integration.

HAL is still far away from working on an indigenous MCA or HCA planes. The projects are underway in tie ups with Russia and SAAB but without foreign hand holding we can't complete such complex projects.

The biggest mistake I will take from IAF is that the negligence and destruction of Maruts airframes, which could have been used now after getting the experience from LCA, as all rest structural traits are more or less comparable, but as we never took care of those airframes now we don't even have the frames to be reused.

I am by no means being critical of you, but just reflecting my points over Rajan's article which unnecessarily put blames and finger pointing on HAL & IAF.I am a proud Indian who believe in constructive criticism.

Jai Hind

No body opposes competition

If Tata birla ambani et all wants to enter aviation sector they are free to do so

The problem is they too want to go the foreign jv route and do screwdriver work with assured govt contracts

Has any of them come forward to do the necessary r&d in engine or aero design sector ?

Has any of them invested even a token amount in the sector ?

 

[SilverSabre]

No body opposes competition

If Tata birla ambani et all wants to enter aviation sector they are free to do so

The problem is they too want to go the foreign jv route and do screwdriver work with assured govt contracts

Has any of them come forward to do the necessary r&d in engine or aero design sector ?

Has any of them invested even a token amount in the sector ?

If you don't know the history then its your problem not mine. Do you know what Air India is?
It was built and run by JRD Tata plane by plane, who was unceremoniously driven out of the board by Indian government because they wanted to run the National carrier. The Maharaja mascot was given by Tata.

After keeping aviation sector in close wraps India opened the sector only a decade back. Why would anyone put money in a sector where its not sure if government changes stance without notice.

This was civil aviation, forget military fighters as none of the firm is allowed to built a plane in India that can be sold as a defence equipment to some other firm just because of silly national security argument.

What will they do after making the planes? Put in their own garages?

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

If you don't know the history then its your problem not mine. Do you know what Air India is?
It was built and run by JRD Tata plane by plane, who was unceremoniously driven out of the board by Indian government because they wanted to run the National carrier. The Maharaja mascot was given by Tata.

After keeping aviation sector in close wraps India opened the sector only a decade back. Why would anyone put money in a sector where its not sure if government changes stance without notice.

This was civil aviation, forget military fighters as none of the firm is allowed to built a plane in India that can be sold as a defence equipment to some other firm just because of silly national security argument.

What will they do after making the planes? Put in their own garages?

History ?

Air India was a civilian airline

Nothing to do with r&d in aviation sector

So for how long has pvt airlines been flying in Indian skies since nationalisation of air India ?

Does jet airways indigo spicejet etc ring any bells ?

 

[SilverSabre]

History ?

Air India was a civilian airline

Nothing to do with r&d in aviation sector

So for how long has pvt airlines been flying in Indian skies since nationalisation of air India ?

Does jet airways indigo spicejet etc ring any bells ?

Way to go my boy. I wish I had the exuberance of youth and pettyness but I give up.

YOU WIN...

 

[smestarz]

I do not see the point to talk of origins of Air India. Times are differemt , leaders are differemt
JRD was a man of princiles and great nationalist, He has achieve a lot and has created a name for himself
Ratan Tata extended the Tata legacy but he is the first TATA to be in news for wrong reasons. Neera radia tapes..
Ratan Tata has done a lot of things to expand Tata business and many are not ethical. Tata name is no longer asssociated with grand trust that they once had. They are just a shad better than Ambanis
So i dont expect any of these to actually invest in technology, but what they mean is JV is that they use their influence to get orders from india, and then in the name of ToT just assemble kits, They would not be absorbing any hi tech from their JV partners the partner is not that stupid

If you don't know the history then its your problem not mine. Do you know what Air India is?
It was built and run by JRD Tata plane by plane, who was unceremoniously driven out of the board by Indian government because they wanted to run the National carrier. The Maharaja mascot was given by Tata.

After keeping aviation sector in close wraps India opened the sector only a decade back. Why would anyone put money in a sector where its not sure if government changes stance without notice.

This was civil aviation, forget military fighters as none of the firm is allowed to built a plane in India that can be sold as a defence equipment to some other firm just because of silly national security argument.

What will they do after making the planes? Put in their own garages?

 

[SilverSabre]

I do not see the point to talk of origins of Air India. Times are differemt , leaders are differemt
JRD was a man of princiles and great nationalist, He has achieve a lot and has created a name for himself
Ratan Tata extended the Tata legacy but he is the first TATA to be in news for wrong reasons. Neera radia tapes..
Ratan Tata has done a lot of things to expand Tata business and many are not ethical. Tata name is no longer asssociated with grand trust that they once had. They are just a shad better than Ambanis
So i dont expect any of these to actually invest in technology, but what they mean is JV is that they use their influence to get orders from india, and then in the name of ToT just assemble kits, They would not be absorbing any hi tech from their JV partners the partner is not that stupid

Alright I think I can reason my point with that. Companies like Tata, Mahindra and L&T have been working with the defence sectors from quite some time, just that it's teh Air force where they haven't stepping in much due to closed nature of the force.

Yes no partner will serve their patented technology on a platter but they do let their JV partners understand and build the products under licence. HAL itself built MiG-21 under licence, and slowly these partners gain expertise and build over it.

The moment FDI and private players are allowed in the defence sector you've started seeing the tie ups like Reliance with Anotov of Ukraine and Tata Motors with Bharat Forge for India's next FICV. All I am highlighting is that now govt has created a favourable market for private players. We can see this sector blossom in next 5-10 years and start seeing robust product line if nurtured adequately.

Sweden should be our biggest example. A small country that possess one of the top defence equipment and components industry that competes with US, Israel and Russia.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Alright I think I can reason my point with that. Companies like Tata, Mahindra and L&T have been working with the defence sectors from quite some time, just that it's teh Air force where they haven't stepping in much due to closed nature of the force.

Yes no partner will serve their patented technology on a platter but they do let their JV partners understand and build the products under licence. HAL itself built MiG-21 under licence, and slowly these partners gain expertise and build over it.

The moment FDI and private players are allowed in the defence sector you've started seeing the tie ups like Reliance with Anotov of Ukraine and Tata Motors with Bharat Forge for India's next FICV. All I am highlighting is that now govt has created a favourable market for private players. We can see this sector blossom in next 5-10 years and start seeing robust product line if nurtured adequately.

Sweden should be our biggest example. A small country that possess one of the top defence equipment and components industry that competes with US, Israel and Russia.

OK let's see

Kalyani a small company invests in metallurgy for artilarry guns barells does r&d


Tata steel worlds 5th largest steel. CO. Does nothing of r&d for naval grade steel gun barell metallurgy or armour for tanks bmos etc

Still they want defence business on a platter ?

In the above scenario why should orders be given to Tata ?

Logically kalyani should be rewarded for their initiative & investments in creating IP

Tell me I am wrong

 

[SilverSabre]

OK let's see

Kalyani a small company invests in metallurgy for artilarry guns barells does r&d


Tata steel worlds 5th largest steel. CO. Does nothing of r&d for naval grade steel gun barell metallurgy or armour for tanks bmos etc

Still they want defence business on a platter ?

In the above scenario why should orders be given to Tata ?

Logically kalyani should be rewarded for their initiative & investments in creating IP

Tell me I am wrong

You're absolutely right in this assessment. Kalyani should be given preference. I never said put your projects on platter for anyone. Whoever has the credentials should be given the chance.

 

[Narasimh]

@pmaitra. Can you please open a thread? We need to discuss it in-depth. Here are 2 pictures of ISRO chairman, Dr. K. Radhakrishnan. He is pleading with Lord Tirupati on the eve of launch of GSLV MK II to make it a success (Top), thanks giving after successful launch on 5.1.14 (Bottom). He has more faith in divine intervention than his knowledge of physics. And making India a laughing-stock in the process around the world.

Practicing faith is his personal choice.. why do you bother about what he does in his private life? all round the world there are traditions done in good faith. In west, they crack a champagne bottle when a ship is launched.. here we crack a coconut..
Here the chief is not doing pooja in front of the rocket in the launch pad involving the ISRO team, he is doing it privately. If people laugh at this its their stupidity and lack of maturity to respect a persons faith. Being an atheist does not give the right to question other people's faith.

And you seem to be specifically concerned about what rest of the world thinks about India rather than being concerned with what India stands for and what is good here.. You seem like a person who is willing to change the flag of the country if one day a westerner laughs at it

 

[sasum]

Here the chief is not doing pooja in front of the rocket

What Dr. Radhakrishnan doing here is worse. Note the voodoo Act with the GSLV replica. He is trying to invoke Godly prowess into the rocket to make it fail-safe.

Being an atheist does not give the right to question other people's faith.

I never say anything out of context. Had these rituals been unconnected with his profession, I wouldn't highlight it. It is not Atheist's view; it is called sanity. For the same reason, it is wrong to bring religion into Governance & Administration.

You seem like a person who is willing to change the flag of the country if one day a westerner laughs at it

Such frivolous comments don't make you into a smart guy. I am discussing superstition & obscurantism, not color of a flag.
And don't try to justify yourself by calling others or their views stupid, idiotic etc. Remember demented delirium gives yourself away

 

[Anupu]

What Dr. Radhakrishnan doing here is worse. Note the voodoo Act with the GSLV replica. He is trying to invoke Godly prowess into the rocket to make it fail-safe.
View attachment 8499


I never say anything out of context. Had these rituals been unconnected with his profession, I wouldn't highlight it. It is not Atheist's view; it is called sanity. For the same reason, it is wrong to bring religion into Governance & Administration.

Such frivolous comments don't make you into a smart guy. I am discussing superstition & obscurantism, not color of a flag.
And don't try to justify yourself by calling others or their views stupid, idiotic etc. Remember demented delirium gives yourself away

Massively off-topic please it's not ISRO thread it's AMCA thread, discuss it somewhere else. Thanks

 

[saagar943]

What Dr. Radhakrishnan doing here is worse. Note the voodoo Act with the GSLV replica. He is trying to invoke Godly prowess into the rocket to make it fail-safe.
View attachment 8499


I never say anything out of context. Had these rituals been unconnected with his profession, I wouldn't highlight it. It is not Atheist's view; it is called sanity. For the same reason, it is wrong to bring religion into Governance & Administration.

Such frivolous comments don't make you into a smart guy. I am discussing superstition & obscurantism, not color of a flag.
And don't try to justify yourself by calling others or their views stupid, idiotic etc. Remember demented delirium gives yourself away

first get skill set like him or his team and than talk

 

[navkapu]

@pmaitra. Can you please open a thread? We need to discuss it in-depth. Here are 2 pictures of ISRO chairman, Dr. K. Radhakrishnan. He is pleading with Lord Tirupati on the eve of launch of GSLV MK II to make it a success (Top), thanks giving after successful launch on 5.1.14 (Bottom). He has more faith in divine intervention than his knowledge of physics. And making India a laughing-stock in the process around the world.
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I feel proud of him as he does what he feels like and does not do things to please people or ashamed of his beliefs