AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

smestarz

New Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2012
Messages
1,929
Likes
1,056
Country flag
But one point is that there are joint ventures but neither the Indian companies seem to want to do hi tech Research or learn it, but rather comfortable with their partner keeping the tech and just building the product
In a way, the technology is theirs and we just do the simple assembling of kits. Would this be termed as creating jobs? or being Made in India?
By that definition if we bring chinese phone in parts and assemble in India can we call it Made in India? possibly in a way.

Alright I think I can reason my point with that. Companies like Tata, Mahindra and L&T have been working with the defence sectors from quite some time, just that it's teh Air force where they haven't stepping in much due to closed nature of the force.

Yes no partner will serve their patented technology on a platter but they do let their JV partners understand and build the products under licence. HAL itself built MiG-21 under licence, and slowly these partners gain expertise and build over it.

The moment FDI and private players are allowed in the defence sector you've started seeing the tie ups like Reliance with Anotov of Ukraine and Tata Motors with Bharat Forge for India's next FICV. All I am highlighting is that now govt has created a favourable market for private players. We can see this sector blossom in next 5-10 years and start seeing robust product line if nurtured adequately.

Sweden should be our biggest example. A small country that possess one of the top defence equipment and components industry that competes with US, Israel and Russia.
 

jon arts

New Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2015
Messages
2
Likes
5
Heyy Guys! I'm new to this to forum.. My name is Murli Yadav, im the one who recently designed few AMCA artworks ... I see somebody posted the same on page 89 here ... I just wanted to ask If there is some design changes been made in AMCA recently ? I heard it has been tweeked and made some design changes ..I want to to redesign it if it has been changed .. Does anybody has any pictures of recent design changes in AMCA if it has been changed ? and please let me know if the designs i made are correct in shape! I want to make sure i did it right before i proceed making few more artworks with armaments ! Thank You!
 

sasum

Atheist but not Communists.
New Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Messages
1,435
Likes
761
Heyy Guys! I'm new to this to forum.. My name is Murli Yadav, im the one who recently designed few AMCA artworks ... I see somebody posted the same on page 89 here ... I just wanted to ask If there is some design changes been made in AMCA recently ? I heard it has been tweeked and made some design changes ..I want to to redesign it if it has been changed .. Does anybody has any pictures of recent design changes in AMCA if it has been changed ? and please let me know if the designs i made are correct in shape! I want to make sure i did it right before i proceed making few more artworks with armaments ! Thank You!
I think it is best to confirm it from DRDO/ ADA, no? DRDO has a tweeter handle.
 

garg_bharat

New Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
5,078
Likes
10,138
Country flag
Microsoft didn't get venture funding. Infosys was not started out of garage.
It is very easy to get bank financing in the USA if you have a viable business plan. Not so in India though situation is changing now. Also it is easy to find private backers in the USA. The culture is very different.

How did Infosys start? From a five star hotel?
HCL also started from a very humble beginning, and so many other Indian firms.
 

jon arts

New Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2015
Messages
2
Likes
5
I think it is best to confirm it from DRDO/ ADA, no? DRDO has a tweeter handle.
Sorry, I don't use twitter ... besides what is this forum about ? I thought it was all about AMCA.. and there are people who could answer few things in here .. Just wanted to know if there were people in here who actually knew updates about AMCA ...
 

sasum

Atheist but not Communists.
New Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Messages
1,435
Likes
761
But one point is that there are joint ventures but neither the Indian companies seem to want to do hi tech Research or learn it, but rather comfortable with their partner keeping the tech and just building the product
In a way, the technology is theirs and we just do the simple assembling of kits. Would this be termed as creating jobs? or being Made in India?
By that definition if we bring chinese phone in parts and assemble in India can we call it Made in India? possibly in a way.
In short screw-driver technology.............
 

Superdefender

New Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2016
Messages
1,207
Likes
1,085
Sorry, I don't use twitter ... besides what is this forum about ? I thought it was all about AMCA.. and there are people who could answer few things in here .. Just wanted to know if there were people in here who actually knew updates about AMCA ...
I was the person who posted your pic. Those are really a beauty. Most of the forum members are defence enthusiasts. They analyse/discuss stuffs what they see on net. A few are experts and they are really knowledgable. But I think none are really pure upto date with last minute developments. If some have recent news, they will post it.
 

Indx TechStyle

Kitty mod
New Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
18,416
Likes
56,946
Country flag
Sorry, I don't use twitter ... besides what is this forum about ? I thought it was all about AMCA.. and there are people who could answer few things in here .. Just wanted to know if there were people in here who actually knew updates about AMCA ...
Read the thread daily for updates.
And please introduce selves in Introductions and Greetings Section.
 

Indx TechStyle

Kitty mod
New Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
18,416
Likes
56,946
Country flag
In short screw-driver technology.............
:doh: Hey commie, can you find other thread to troll? If our technology is screw driver then that of your chinese masters is to stealing screw drivers even at night.
 

PaliwalWarrior

New Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2014
Messages
844
Likes
319
It is very easy to get bank financing in the USA if you have a viable business plan. Not so in India though situation is changing now. Also it is easy to find private backers in the USA. The culture is very different.

How did Infosys start? From a five star hotel?
HCL also started from a very humble beginning, and so many other Indian firms.

No I don't agree

In us the culture is of organised finance

In India the culture is of obtaining unorganized finance
 

tejas warrior

New Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2015
Messages
1,268
Likes
3,723
Country flag
Indian Air Force chief Arup Raha is visiting a flying base of the Swedish Air Force and the production facilities of SAAB at Linkoping where Gripen aircraft are manufactured.

Is this really all about Gripen OR India is trying to get SAAB support on AMCA ? just a thought..
 

Indx TechStyle

Kitty mod
New Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
18,416
Likes
56,946
Country flag
Indian Air Force chief Arup Raha is visiting a flying base of the Swedish Air Force and the production facilities of SAAB at Linkoping where Gripen aircraft are manufactured.

Is this really all about Gripen OR India is trying to get SAAB support on AMCA ? just a thought..
I can bet my money that India won't involve a company like SAAB in such project. :D
 

PaliwalWarrior

New Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2014
Messages
844
Likes
319
Indian Air Force chief Arup Raha is visiting a flying base of the Swedish Air Force and the production facilities of SAAB at Linkoping where Gripen aircraft are manufactured.

Is this really all about Gripen OR India is trying to get SAAB support on AMCA ? just a thought..
If he is going to swiss and having talks with a lot of defence setup

And if they insist taking him on a tour then considering the current scenario he can hardly refuse the visit bluntly
 

fsayed

New Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Messages
3
Likes
2
Saab adds GaN AESA co-dev to Make in India Gripen pitch

Saab has offered it’s cutting-edge Gallium Nitride AESA radar technology if India decides to produce the Gripen fighter aircraft for the IAF.
By Saurabh Joshi on June 10, 2016 / 0 Comments

Source: Saab
Sweden and Saab have offered to co-develop its Gallium Nitride AESA (Active Electronically Scanned Array) radar with India. In meetings held with a visiting Indian defense ministry committee this week, which included Indian Air Force (IAF) Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha — and following on from briefings in New Delhi last month — Saab officials have pitched the idea of joint development of the technology to India, if India were to select the Gripen for production in India, via Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s Make in India initiative.
Lars Tossman, Head of Saab’s Airborne Surveillance business unit told visiting Indian media last month, “We talked in India – we said if India would choose Gripen, then we would be willing to share this technology and co-develop it. We have a lot to contribute but we’re willing to share that.”

Tejas LCA Requirement

Although Saab has received a Request For Information (RFI) for the LCA Mk1A, which requires an AESA radar, besides EW and ESM suites, among other items, this offer of co-development is contingent to an agreement on a Gripen Make In India program.
“This could also be a technology used in an LCA, your home program and there could be a lot of synergies between Gripen and LCA on the sensor suite. This is something – I just said we would be willing to co-develop this with Indian local partners that India as a nation would think is the right one,” said Tossman.
“We are in a long term business and we think this is good for a joint Sweden-India Gripen program but could also be for the good use of LCA of course. This is something that India could gain from if they would choose us as the supplier,” he added.
According to Tossman, GaN AESA radars are 70 percent more effective than existing AESA radar technology. This development is different from the SELEX Galileo Raven ES-05 AESA radar developed for the Gripen. But Sweden is clear that the offer to share GaN AESA radar technology would be only be on offer if India were to agree to to produce the Gripen in India for the IAF.

Source: Saab
“We are willing to do that if India would choose that – this would be part of a package like that. We would be willing to discuss and find a solution that would be good for all parties. But Saab was very clear with all the dialogue that we had, that we are willing to share this – transfer of technology and joint venture and joint development. I think Make in India is the way forward in India,” said Tossman, adding, “This is one of the extra benefits of choosing Gripen.”

Competition

India is currently contemplating proposals from Lockheed Martin to shift its F-16 assembly line to India, from Boeing for setting up a second F/A-18 line in India and from Saab for the setting up of a Gripen production line in India, although Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar appears to have crossed out the F-16 from this list in remarks he made to India’s Parliament, recently.
India had last year with drawn the IAF tender for 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) after negotiations with France’s Dassault for the L1-selected Rafale failed after a tender process that began in 2007, with trials of six fighter aircraft. Besides the Gripen, F-16, F/A-18 and Rafale, the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Russian MiG-35 were also tested. India is currently negotiating for an off-the-shelf purchase of 36 Rafale aircraft as part of an announcement made by Prime Minister Modi in April 2015.
But in any case, GaN AESA technology sharing is not something anyone else is likely to offer India anytime soon.
“If Indian would choose Gripen, I don’t know what our competitors will offer India but I think this would be of interest because India would get a decisive edge
 

WolfPack86

New Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
10,571
Likes
16,993
Country flag
Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) is an Indian programme of a fifth-generation fighter aircraft. It is being developed by an aerospace industry team which consist of Aeronautical Development Agency as a design firm and to be manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). It is a single-seat, twin-engine, stealth supermaneuverable all weather multirole fighter aircraft. Unofficial design work on the AMCA started in 2008 with official work started in 2011 and completed in 2014. In 2008 Indian Navy joined the programme for the naval variant optimized for the aircraft carriers operation. The first flight is scheduled to occur in 2023–2024.

It is a multirole combat aircraft designed for the air superiority, ground attack, bombing, intercepting, Strike and other types of roles. It combines supercruise, stealth, AESA radar, maneuverability, and advanced avionics to overcome and suppress previous generation fighter aircraft along with many ground and maritime defences.

The AMCA preliminary design was changed several times, to adopt new model engines, Radar’s and long range missiles. Like how the A 10 developed to carry the GAU 8 Avenger cannon. The AMCA also developed to carry multi national equipment’s like Missiles, Radar’s and Engines.
Currently more than 4000 employers assigned into the AMCA project,where they extracted from ADA, DRDO, HAL and some other leading private companies. The AMCA team identified three major technical works. Which are Thrust vectoring, super cruise Engines, Active radar’s and other processing system and the radar absorbent material.

#Engine

India asks for a joint development of fifth generation engines with foreign nations. It’s reported India might need more than 2000 plus Engines for AMCA. India already has initiated a Engine project named Kaveri. India wants the new engine who powers the AMCA must be based on the Kaveri. In response many foreign nations responded for the Joint Engine development program.

Currently three countries tries to seal the AMCA engine development program. US, France and England offers their known engine companies like General Electric, Snecma and Rolls Royce respectively. GE from America offered engine development based on the F 414 engine, and the Snecma announced the M 88 engine who powers the Rafale and the Rolls Royce also offered the EJ 200 engine for joint development with Kaveri.
As per last known reports, US company General Electric leads in the program. who already supplying F 404 engines for LCA Tejas. GE also set ups manufacturing plants in India to produce aviation engines in India.

#Radar

As same like every other fifth generation fighters, The AMCA too hosts superior avionics and sensor suites. The AMCA hosts new generation GaN based AESA for superior detection and performance. Currently there is no fighter jets has GaN based AESA radars. However many ground based radar available with GaN transceiver modules.

Some information’s reported that, state owned LRDE is initiated a project to develop a small size air borne X band GaN based AESA radar for AMCA. LRDE already shows a model of AESA radar in last years Aero India exhibition. However the Uttam is not good for fifth generation fighters like AMCA.
It’s reported earlier that, India and Israel working for a joint project to develop a GaN based AESA for fighter jets. However due to the importance of the program the information’s are highly classified. It’s clear the Radar too be a joint venture between either US or Israel.

#Sensor

The infrared based systems like IRST, missile warning systems, laser warning system also added internally in the AMCA. The IRST sensors are placed in all sides of the AMCA to provide full angle coverage like in Rafale and F 35. The proposed IRST system is work similar to the F 35’s EOTS who shares the information’s to friendly units like via the satellite and highly secured data links.

AMCA also comes with self protection jammer system to jam enemy radar guided missiles from both air and ground. electronic counter measure systems to confuse the infrared guided missiles and a radar warning receiver too added to detect enemy radar frequency’s.

The Senor suites in AMCA led by the LRDE and BEL which include many private and foreign contributes.

#PropulsionAndAvionics

AMCA is a twin-engines aircraft which is powered by 2X GTRE k9 + or K 10 engine that can capable of producing 11-Kn-125Kn thrust each.The aircraft has a maximum take off weight is 29 tonnes:2 tonnes of internal weapons and 4 tonnes of internal fuel.It can achieve maximum speed of 2.5+ Mach (2665 + Km/h) at altitude and Mach 1.2 at sea level and have a cruise speed of Mach 1.6 at supercruise.The AMCA would have range of 2800 km and climb at the altitudes @ 13,716m/min.
The HAL AMCA has integrated with latest avionics suite which include AESA radar,Integrated avionics systems,Helmet Mounted Display,Datalink capabilities,IRST,E/O Targeting System (EOTS),Multi-functional integrated radio electronics system (MIRES),ECM Suite,Laser-based counter-measures against infrared missiles,IRST for airborne targets,Ultraviolet warning sensors and Targeting pod.

#Armaments

The armaments includes 23 mm GSh-23 cannon gun and 8 hardpoints in stealthy configuration and 12 maximum hardpoints id non stealth load.The aircraft is mounted with Astra missile for long range BVRAAM combat ,Python 5 all aspect short range missile and Vympel R-73 short/visual range combat missile.

It’s Reported the AMCA will be ready by early 2020 or before and HAL starts flying the first flight of fully developed AMCA by 2021. with the initial low rate initial production by 2024. And the air force gets the first AMCA squad by 2025. If all things goes per schedule.
https://www.facebook.com/TeamAMCA/photos/?ref=page_internal
 

Indx TechStyle

Kitty mod
New Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
18,416
Likes
56,946
Country flag
IAF to take final call on AMCA’s engine : DRDO Chief

DRDO Chief Dr S Christopher speaking to media has confirmed that Defence ministry in principal has given clearance to India’s 5th generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) fighter jet which is a twin-engine fighter jet with stealth technology.
Chief also confirmed that necessary precaution has been taken to avoid the repeat of mistakes which plagued LCA-Tejas program and key industries have been identified for the supply of systems, sub-assemblies and components.
when it comes to the selection of engine to power AMCA Chief said that final call will be taken by Indian Air Force, But discussions are already on with potential collaborators for design and manufacture of these engines in the country.
Washington has signaled its willingness to co-develop aircraft engine with India for India’s indigenous fifth-generation AMCA fighter project . DRDO want General Electric Aviation (GE) to uprate its 98 KiloNewtons (KN) GE-F414IN engine to produce 110 KN of thrust to meets AMCA twin engine requirements.
European Eurojet too has offered its Uprated EJ200 engines for India’s AMCA fighter jet which are currently been used to power Eurofighter Typhoon fighter jets and have briefed DRDO officials but has met with lukewarm response from Indian defence ministry till now.
India’s GTRE too is silently also working on development of a Kaveri engine derivative which can generate 80 KiloNewtons (KN) of peak power which in later phases will be uprated to 90 KiloNewtons (KN) ultimately leading to development of 110 KiloNewtons (KN) for which GTRE already has made plans to produce 20 80 KN engines in next 3-4 years for testing purpose.
Source: idrw.org
@Shaitan @AnantS @shiphone
Which option gonna be better in you guys' opinion?
Co developing or importing the engine?
French too were offering a JV for Kaveri, we have developed a heli engine earlier jointly with them too.
 

HariPrasad-1

New Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2016
Messages
9,645
Likes
21,138
Country flag
IAF to take final call on AMCA’s engine : DRDO Chief







Source: idrw.org
@Shaitan @AnantS @shiphone
Which option gonna be better in you guys' opinion?
Co developing or importing the engine?
French too were offering a JV for Kaveri, we have developed a heli engine earlier jointly with them too.

I bet for AL31 down graded engine because it can come quickly and at a low cost. We can improve it according to our requirement. Why I recommend the Russian engine is because it already has thrust victor. Mishra dhathu nigam limited has claimed to develop a SCB much better than that of AL31. We can integrate both technology and develop a 120 to 125 KN TWC engine. This seems to me the shortest way.

AMCA will be a twine engine fighter so if engine is a bit less reliable it won't going to make a big difference. The chelleng against us is to bring AMCA very quickly. If possible, we must not Hesitate to partner with the countries like UK, France or Israel.
 
Last edited:

Articles

Top