AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[Bhartiya Sainik]

My point is drone swarm is not a 6th gen technology if that's what you think will make fcas or tempest 6th gen .

Well none of 5th gen jets have implements drone swarm. It is actually characteristics of 6th gen.
In an interview on 8 October 2020 to celebrate its 88th anniversary of Indian Air Force (IAF), Air Chief Marshal Rakesh Bhadauria was asked about plans for sixth generation technologies and he responded that they have a clear roadmap for sixth generation combat systems like directed energy weapons, smart wingman concept, optionally manned combat platforms, swarm drones, hypersonic weapons and other equipment.

Air Chief Marshal R K S Bhadauria interview: 'Indigenisation essential for strategic development'

Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal R K S Bhadauria, who completed one in year office recently, tells Onmanorama in an interview that these are.Indian Air Force Day. IAF Day. IAF Chief. Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal R K S Bhadauria. IAF's 88th anniversary. Onmanorama. Manorama Online

www.onmanorama.com

IAF demonstrated its operational capability along northern border: Chief of Air Staff

"The evolving threat matrix in our region is becoming complex, ranging from aspirational adversaries with huge investments in military arsenal, to those collusively supported by non-state actors, apart from growing sub-conventional threats emanating from terrorism and cyber space," he said.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

Read about LCA max concept .

Ok, i'll search. But scroll up & see, i honestly accepted "I didn't know that they are testing drone swarms with LCA "

Have you even read latest usa military budget?? They are still buying f15 and f18 for USA forces!!

I'm not financial analyst or defence journalist I don't care about DoD budget figures. i came to this website to discuss on technical aspects whichi can comprehend.
Perhaps u can share some verifiable link. If everything others will mention then what will u do here?
I did mention "Apart for those, if any more lagacy frames are made they will be last batches to replace the oldest ones. And this will not stall their 6th gen program. "

Please pots FOC documents for F35. Please confirm that they can be actually used in battle ? There is thing called production while waiting for operational clearance. All nations do that.

U can also share something. What r u going to do here??
Before FOC comes the IOC (Initial Operational Capability) which means some units/sqauds out of total intended units/sqauds in the force structure scheduled to receive a system have received it and have the ability to employ and maintain it.
FOC means "all units in the force structure scheduled to receive a system have received it and have the ability to employ and maintain it. "

And what will they send against f35 that usa and Japan operate??
Btw j20 still can't supercruise which even 4th gen Rafale can wonder how it will hide it's massive IR signature to be stealthy??

You are expecting me to reply like a Chinese military strategist?
If u throw the best jets like F-35 then obviously they will throw their best which is J-20, Su-35-S, etc.
Why should i worry about hiding J-20s IR signature?

And isn't j10 single engine which you think is stupid to build.

I never said "stupid" to build. I said it is "risky" & "if i were a pilot i would prefer 2 engine jet".
So indeed J-10 is risking engine failure & hit by enemy. A twin engine jet hit by enemy & got 1 engine damage might be able to make it back to base. It doesn't take PhD degree to understand this

Well I agree with that. But you can yourself stop posting half truths to help us all stick to topic.

Something is better than nothing. I posted atleast half knowledge/truth, rest half u can post & build some credibility, simple.

 

[THESIS THORON]

Well none of 5th gen jets have implements drone swarm. It is actually characteristics of 6th gen.
In an interview on 8 October 2020 to celebrate its 88th anniversary of Indian Air Force (IAF), Air Chief Marshal Rakesh Bhadauria was asked about plans for sixth generation technologies and he responded that they have a clear roadmap for sixth generation combat systems like directed energy weapons, smart wingman concept, optionally manned combat platforms, swarm drones, hypersonic weapons and other equipment.

Air Chief Marshal R K S Bhadauria interview: 'Indigenisation essential for strategic development'

Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal R K S Bhadauria, who completed one in year office recently, tells Onmanorama in an interview that these are.Indian Air Force Day. IAF Day. IAF Chief. Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal R K S Bhadauria. IAF's 88th anniversary. Onmanorama. Manorama Online

www.onmanorama.com

IAF demonstrated its operational capability along northern border: Chief of Air Staff

"The evolving threat matrix in our region is becoming complex, ranging from aspirational adversaries with huge investments in military arsenal, to those collusively supported by non-state actors, apart from growing sub-conventional threats emanating from terrorism and cyber space," he said.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

Ok, i'll search. But scroll up & see, i honestly accepted "I didn't know that they are testing drone swarms with LCA "


I'm not financial analyst or defence journalist I don't care about DoD budget figures. i came to this website to discuss on technical aspects whichi can comprehend.
Perhaps u can share some verifiable link. If everything others will mention then what will u do here?
I did mention "Apart for those, if any more lagacy frames are made they will be last batches to replace the oldest ones. And this will not stall their 6th gen program. "


U can also share something. What r u going to do here??
Before FOC comes the IOC (Initial Operational Capability) which means some units/sqauds out of total intended units/sqauds in the force structure scheduled to receive a system have received it and have the ability to employ and maintain it.
FOC means "all units in the force structure scheduled to receive a system have received it and have the ability to employ and maintain it. "


You are expecting me to reply like a Chinese military strategist?
If u throw the best jets like F-35 then obviously they will throw their best which is J-20, Su-35-S, etc.
Why should i worry about hiding J-20s IR signature?


I never said "stupid" to build. I said it is "risky" & "if i were a pilot i would prefer 2 engine jet".
So indeed J-10 is risking engine failure & hit by enemy. A twin engine jet hit by enemy & got 1 engine damage might be able to make it back to base. It doesn't take PhD degree to understand this


Something is better than nothing. I posted atleast half knowledge/truth, rest half u can post & build some credibility, simple.

but then tejas max is going to implement drone swarm tech earlier than amca.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Who cares about looks man
IAF wants capability
The computer tech of mk2 is just awesome
When fused with sensors and AI.
You need to look things in frame of IAF.
They need a backup aircraft
Stealth fighters like amca are less in numbers and cost more in maintenance.

The world cares about looks, which in aeronautical language is called PLANFORM SHAPING & RAS (Radar Absorbing Structure). AMCA is also based on it.

Yes, stealth jets are costlier. To suppliment AMCA, we will have LCA MK1A, Rafale, Su-30MKIs, TEDBF & let's see what we get in MRCA 2.0
Perhaps U can share something about avionics, sensors, AI, etc of MK2. But except composite, its airframe shaping doesn't comply to stealth characteristics.

 

[Brood Father]

I'm opposing creation of Tejas MK2 or MWF who's prototype is being built, not the MK1A.
We have no choice other than to build MK1A but HAL is being criticized that it is slow in delivering MK1A. The following is just 1 of many videos.

Our current MiG-29 UPG & Ks are good enough for now. TEDBF will replace MiG-29K, Naval LCA has been cancelled.
And the MRCA has come back as 2.0, so let's see which jets they are going to buy. In my opinion buying USA's jets is huge risk. I'm guessing that more Rafales & SU-35s might be purchased or 30MKIs produced by HAL & upgraded.
We need funding for TEDBF & AMCA which we should not waste in recreating a 4th gen jet with obsolete airframe design.

Incorrect analysis in all spheres
India operates all the spectrum of aircrafts ..Jags , 29K, M2K and 21's are getting old and needs replacement within 10 years timeframes
While 21's will be replaced by MK1A there are no planes which can replace other mentioned jets.. Not to mention requirement of MRFA is to fulfill current shortage , so even if we get 114 jets we have to account for remaining 200 odd jets which can only be fulfilled by MK2 .
AMCA is in distant future probably 2035 , and till that time if you think we can survive with older airframes you are sadly mistaken

And you have crtisized HAL for slow manufacturing , guess who will manufacture AMCA?

Coming back to MK2 , It is the most important stepping stone for our MIC , You cannot fight the war with foriegn weapons . Period ..With all the Rafales ,Su will be at risk during Incase the strength depletes ..What do you do then ?
OTOH if you have matured MIC you can increase the production in case of wars and other advertises

Now you also said that HAL has been slow in giving Tejas , True ..that happened because we were pretty new in creating the aircraft , Now 30 years later HAL is very matured and we have created a very good MIC for most of the important components including AESA , now the timeframe will be much better and MK2 is a incremental design ..AMCA on the other hand is a very new design ..So which will be faster ?

Last but not the least ..No we will not go for SU35 , there was the reason that in MMRCA 1 Su 35 was discarded from the very beginning and HAL was also snubbed when they gave the suggestion to build more Su30
India do not need a twin seater heavy fighters. We already have 273 Su 30 , we don't need more and IAF hence have debarred them to participate . it haven't changed , so the only probability to win MMRCA 2 is Rafales

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

but then tejas max is going to implement drone swarm tech earlier than amca.

Good for us then.
See, out of all the superset of characteristics, some small characteristics of next gen can be implemented in current gen jet as MLU, thats doesn't make current gen as next gen. So If LCA implements drone swarm then it doesn't become 6th gen. If Lockheed Martin implements laser pod in F-16 then F-16 doesn't become 6th gen.

 

[Brood Father]

Incorrect analysis in all spheres
India operates all the spectrum of aircrafts ..Jags , 29K, M2K and 21's are getting old and needs replacement within 10 years timeframes
While 21's will be replaced by MK1A there are no planes which can replace other mentioned jets.. Not to mention requirement of MRFA is to fulfill current shortage , so even if we get 114 jets we have to account for remaining 200 odd jets which can only be fulfilled by MK2 .
AMCA is in distant future probably 2035 , and till that time if you think we can survive with older airframes you are sadly mistaken

And you have crtisized HAL for slow manufacturing , guess who will manufacture AMCA?

Coming back to MK2 , It is the most important stepping stone for our MIC , You cannot fight the war with foriegn weapons . Period ..With all the Rafales ,Su will be at risk during Incase the strength depletes ..What do you do then ?
OTOH if you have matured MIC you can increase the production in case of wars and other advertises

Now you also said that HAL has been slow in giving Tejas , True ..that happened because we were pretty new in creating the aircraft , Now 30 years later HAL is very matured and we have created a very good MIC for most of the important components including AESA , now the timeframe will be much better and MK2 is a incremental design ..AMCA on the other hand is a very new design ..So which will be faster ?

Last but not the least ..No we will not go for SU35 , there was the reason that in MMRCA 1 Su 35 was discarded from the very beginning and HAL was also snubbed when they gave the suggestion to build more Su30
India do not need a twin seater heavy fighters. We already have 273 Su 30 , we don't need more and IAF hence have debarred them to participate . it haven't changed , so the only probability to win MMRCA 2 is Rafales

And to add 5/6 gen are very cost intensive platforms ..India spends very less in defence so how do you think we are going to manage a large fleet of 5th gen ..Even US today with all the defence budgets is going back to 4th gen and trying to have a good balance between 4th and 5th gen .
MK2 will be cheaper to procure and operate and will become a backbone for IAF in future

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

While 21's will be replaced by MK1A there are no planes which can replace other mentioned jets.. Not to mention requirement of MRFA is to fulfill current shortage , so even if we get 114 jets we have to account for remaining 200 odd jets which can only be fulfilled by MK2 .
AMCA is in distant future probably 2035 , and till that time if you think we can survive with older airframes you are sadly mistaken

U think that our MiG-29Ks(about to be upgraded further), UPGs, Mirage-2000 upgrades won't last another 10-15 years? So question the Govt. or DRDO/HAL/NAL/ADA guys,what were they doing in last 70 years?

And you have crtisized HAL for slow manufacturing , guess who will manufacture AMCA?

I have not criticized, the defence journalists & others have, that's why i shared the YT video.

Coming back to MK2 , It is the most important stepping stone for our MIC , You cannot fight the war with foriegn weapons . Period ..With all the Rafales ,Su will be at risk during Incase the strength depletes ..What do you do then ?
OTOH if you have matured MIC you can increase the production in case of wars and other advertises

Well, u r assuming that we will have "full blown" war in this decade causing rapid depletion. In that case there is no choice other than to make some MK1A squads & perhaps some Mk2 squads too but later they will become liability.
Su-30MKIs & Rafales are supposed to be frontline air uperiority fighters & protectors.
I also wan't self relliance for our country. But as we have been importers since decades, we say that Su-30MKI is best Su-30 worldwide, Rafale is among best jets, so if foreign weapons cannot give us victory then you just passed very controversial statement.

Now you also said that HAL has been slow in giving Tejas , True ..that happened because we were pretty new in creating the aircraft , Now 30 years later HAL is very matured and we have created a very good MIC for most of the important components including AESA , now the timeframe will be much better and MK2 is a incremental design ..AMCA on the other hand is a very new design ..So which will be faster ?

MK2 will be faster but like i said above, in long run it will become liability just like the old MiGs. U r seeing short term profit but ignoring long term danger. A jet is made for 2-3 decades. If MK2 enters AF in late 2020s suppose then it will stay till late 2040s at least. What kind of jets will be flying around with adversaries then?

Last but not the least ..No we will not go for SU35 , there was the reason that in MMRCA 1 Su 35 was discarded from the very beginning and HAL was also snubbed when they gave the suggestion to build more Su30
India do not need a twin seater heavy fighters. We already have 273 Su 30 , we don't need more and IAF hence have debarred them to participate . it haven't changed , so the only probability to win MMRCA 2 is Rafales

Ok, let's see what happens. I'm not Defence journalist but different ones like Ajay Banerjee, Abhijit Iyer Mitra, etc have said that Su-30MKI from HAl costs more than Russian import. Hence i mentioned Su-35. But 1 thing for sure that Super Sukhoi upgrade is important at the earliest.

 

[SavageKing456]

The world cares about looks, which in aeronautical language is called PLANFORM SHAPING & RAS (Radar Absorbing Structure). AMCA is also based on it.
View attachment 126534View attachment 126535
View attachment 126538

Yes, stealth jets are costlier. To suppliment AMCA, we will have LCA MK1A, Rafale, Su-30MKIs, TEDBF & let's see what we get in MRCA 2.0
Perhaps U can share something about avionics, sensors, AI, etc of MK2. But except composite, its airframe shaping doesn't comply to stealth characteristics.

Perhaps that is why USAF now wants 4.5 gen aircrafts?
They know as well that availability rate of f22&f35 is less
TEDBF is for navy.
Depending completely on stealth aircrafts without backup of tejas mk2 is ridiculous+a lot of tech of amca is derived from mk2 tejas.

 

[Vikram314]

U think that our MiG-29Ks(about to be upgraded further), UPGs, Mirage-2000 upgrades won't last another 10-15 years? So question the Govt. or DRDO/HAL/NAL/ADA guys,what were they doing in last 70 years?


I have not criticized, the defence journalists & others have, that's why i shared the YT video.


Well, u r assuming that we will have "full blown" war in this decade causing rapid depletion. In that case there is no choice other than to make some MK1A squads & perhaps some Mk2 squads too but later they will become liability.
Su-30MKIs & Rafales are supposed to be frontline air uperiority fighters & protectors.
I also wan't self relliance for our country. But as we have been importers since decades, we say that Su-30MKI is best Su-30 worldwide, Rafale is among best jets, so if foreign weapons cannot give us victory then you just passed very controversial statement.


MK2 will be faster but like i said above, in long run it will become liability just like the old MiGs. U r seeing short term profit but ignoring long term danger. A jet is made for 2-3 decades. If MK2 enters AF in late 2020s suppose then it will stay till late 2040s at least. What kind of jets will be flying around with adversaries then?


Ok, let's see what happens. I'm not Defence journalist but different ones like Ajay Banerjee, Abhijit Iyer Mitra, etc have said that Su-30MKI from HAl costs more than Russian import. Hence i mentioned Su-35. But 1 thing for sure that Super Sukhoi upgrade is important at the earliest.

MK2 will not become a liability in long or short term. We will keep upgrading it as our MIC grows.

 

[SARTHAK]

The most important aircraft for iaf would be lca mk2 (especially the sensor suite will be similar to amca) sensor fusion ,360 ir maws,net centric warfare and all that(5th gen suite on 4.5 gen frame) ,that is why i said tedbf would be a sweet spot for mass production it will be (5 gen minus) as termed by usaf ,the plane would be forming a large part of the force(if adopted by iaf in case amca is delayed) btw, 6th gen is still far, and 5th gen platforms are to be inducted in less numbers when compared with 4.5 or 5gen minus platforms

 

[Brood Father]

U think that our MiG-29Ks(about to be upgraded further), UPGs, Mirage-2000 upgrades won't last another 10-15 years? So question the Govt. or DRDO/HAL/NAL/ADA guys,what were they doing in last 70 years?


I have not criticized, the defence journalists & others have, that's why i shared the YT video.


Well, u r assuming that we will have "full blown" war in this decade causing rapid depletion. In that case there is no choice other than to make some MK1A squads & perhaps some Mk2 squads too but later they will become liability.
Su-30MKIs & Rafales are supposed to be frontline air uperiority fighters & protectors.
I also wan't self relliance for our country. But as we have been importers since decades, we say that Su-30MKI is best Su-30 worldwide, Rafale is among best jets, so if foreign weapons cannot give us victory then you just passed very controversial statement.


MK2 will be faster but like i said above, in long run it will become liability just like the old MiGs. U r seeing short term profit but ignoring long term danger. A jet is made for 2-3 decades. If MK2 enters AF in late 2020s suppose then it will stay till late 2040s at least. What kind of jets will be flying around with adversaries then?


Ok, let's see what happens. I'm not Defence journalist but different ones like Ajay Banerjee, Abhijit Iyer Mitra, etc have said that Su-30MKI from HAl costs more than Russian import. Hence i mentioned Su-35. But 1 thing for sure that Super Sukhoi upgrade is important at the earliest.

Bhai stop listening to AI mitra ..He doesn't know jack about defence. Better read from yourself and explore things . Here a small video which shows how good Tejas programe is

 

[Javelin_Sam]

The most important aircraft for iaf would be lca mk2 (especially the sensor suite will be similar to amca) sensor fusion ,360 ir maws,net centric warfare and all that(5th gen suite on 4.5 gen frame) ,that is why i said tedbf would be a sweet spot for mass production it will be (5 gen minus) as termed by usaf ,the plane would be forming a large part of the force(if adopted by iaf in case amca is delayed) btw, 6th gen is still far, and 5th gen platforms are to be inducted in less numbers when compared with 4.5 or 5gen minus platforms

5th gen Sensor suit similar to amca, sensor fusion, 360 ir maws, net centric warfare, AESA, RWR, ISPJ. All on a Tejas MK2. Nice. Now please tell me how to get electricity for all these? From one GE F414? Even 2 GE F414 is insufficient of AMCA. So ADA is now scratching it's head over a 75KN engine with additional current generation capabilities. So Tejas MK2 will be all about a decent AESA, ISPJ, MAWS and RWR. Nothing more except Maybe networking with CAATS Hunter or similar wingman

 

[SARTHAK]

5th gen Sensor suit similar to amca, sensor fusion, 360 ir maws, net centric warfare, AESA, RWR, ISPJ. All on a Tejas MK2. Nice. Now please tell me how to get electricity for all these? From one GE F414? Even 2 GE F414 is insufficient of AMCA. So ADA is now scratching it's head over a 75KN engine with additional current generation capabilities. So Tejas MK2 will be all about a decent AESA, ISPJ, MAWS and RWR. Nothing more except Maybe networking with CAATS Hunter or similar wingman

I never the power would be same of course a smaller nose on mk2 will ensure less no of tr modules , in similar ways everything would be optimized for power and gripen e uses the same engine and that too has a very potent ew suite , amca mk1 is basically mk2 sensors mounted on a 5th gen airframe

 

[rohit b3]

Bhai stop listening to AI mitra ..He doesn't know jack about defence. Better read from yourself and explore things . Here a small video which shows how good Tejas programe is

Even people like these are on Saab's pay role. Cutting edge tech aspects like the Quadruplux Digital FBW, Unstable design with RSS, Composites, Stealth, Maintainability, Avionics, Software, etc are not discussed.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

And to add 5/6 gen are very cost intensive platforms ..

The same was said when every new generation came out.
When 3rd gen was operational & 4th gen came out, people said "4th gen will b costly"
When 2nd gen was operational & 3rd gen came out, people said "3rd gen will b costly"
When 1st gen was operational & 2nd gen came out, people said "2nd gen will b costly"

Yes, 5th gen jets are costly but anything when new & latest is costliest & with timely advancement it becomes norm & economical.
The West, specifically USA is global leader in Stealth & made F-22 & F-35. Although F-22 was inducted in 2005 but made in 1990s & designed in 1980s for ATF program.
1990s & 2000s were also special decades when globalization happened, IT boom happened, massive industrial colaborations, information exchange & proliferation happened, every kind of technology rapidly progressed. Today our mobile phones are more powerful than 2000s PC.
Hence I don't think AMCA will be as costly like the F-22 bcoz we are deep into5th gen era & 6th gen designing has begun on boards/screens.
We also pulled out of Su-57 PAKFA bcoz of various financial & technical reasons.

India spends very less in defence so how do you think we are going to manage a large fleet of 5th gen ..

So why do we spend so less & have depended on imports in last 70 years? Bcoz we had puppet governments & politicians eating money & dumping in their swiss bank accounts, etc.
I already explained above that AMCA won't be or shouldn't be costly like F-22 And moreover our R&D is not that high-end like that of USA's. So if we can avoid scams & corruption among politicians, etc then AMCA wouldn't be so hard to manage financialy.
We need to accelerate a design of common airframe for TEDBF & AF-ORCA, just like Rafale had Navy & AF versions.
Some say ORCA loos like LCA, some say like TEDBF. But i already commented that the TEDBF airframe looks better than LCA's which can also be used for AF version to save cost, just like Rafale has Navy & AF versions.

It appears that this TEDBF model has been given some stealth structure treatment. Perhaps this design implemented as ORCA can be named TEJAS MK2.

Even US today with all the defence budgets is going back to 4th gen and trying to have a good balance between 4th and 5th gen .

Perhaps u guys can share some links, i have not followed US websites & channels for long time.
USA is a very very cunning, tactical & unpredictible country.
I don't know if USA is really doing that with domestic fleet to replace oldest airframes or just for customers primarily so that it can fund its 6th gen R&D & MLU for F-22/35. It is a dark secret world, many have speculated that 6th gen prototypes are being flown & tested secretly as we speak. Perhaps this image is just a graphics rendering, or a leaked one, who knows? BTW this looks similar to FCAS.

When i shared screenshot of F-16 with laser pod then someone called it a "marketing gimic" & not to trust it. So some people are talking from both sides.

But, I also explained that USA is OEM country & exporter. Its geography, geopolitics, needs, economy, technology are very different from ours. Its main land is cutoff from its adversaries.
Now latest blocks for customers also need some minimum demand for economical production. This can influence domestic market also sometimes bcoz u can't reopen a production line or design a brand new one just for 10/20/40/60 export units of 4th gen. U need order in good numbers.
These are F-16 customers:

And this cannot be compared to less units of 5th gen F-22 being produced. USA won't export F-22 but has many customers for its legacy jets. Some people still believe that F-22 production might re-emerge in future if 6th gen will apparently be costly initialy, then F-22 along with MLU will be relatively more economical compared to today.

MK2 will be cheaper to procure and operate and will become a backbone for IAF in future

If any country simply uses older airframe then obviously it will be cheaper, nobody in world can argue on that. And it will become backbone of IAF? Well, bones can be broken if we neglect our adversary's technical progress. If Mk1A & MK2 will be LSP (Limited Series Production) till we have AMCA & other MLUed Su-30MKIs & Rafales then i can understand.
BTW, in analogy of backbone, there are many more bones in body which are less strong This means a backbone fighter needs to be stronger air superiority fighter lesser in number, not a weaker jet more in number.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Bhai stop listening to AI mitra ..He doesn't know jack about defence. Better read from yourself and explore things . Here a small video which shows how good Tejas programe is

I found Millenium7 like an audio podcast. Some videos were informative, others were boring. And we should not melt just bcoz someone praises us.
There are so many website, YT channels & journalists. Whom to follow & trust more.

 

[Tshering22]

I see your point. But do we have interceptors for hypersonic cruise missiles? I don't think so since the first requirement for building an interceptor is to have the weapon to test against. Do we have any equivalent of 3M22 Tsirkon?

Point to note is China has an accelerated hypersonic cruise missile development program- even the US is feeling the heat. We seem back enough on the tech curve here to warrant imports.

Yes we do.

The collective term is called Pradyumna Ballistic Missile System in which there are 2 components:

Advanced Air Defence or AAD-1 and Prithvi Air Defence of PAD-1. The BMD is already approved to be installed around Delhi first and then continue to install it around critical regional and national nerve centres of the country such as Mumbai, Chennai, Kolkata, Guwahati, the chicken's neck, etc.

Check it here for yourself.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Perhaps that is why USAF now wants 4.5 gen aircrafts?
They know as well that availability rate of f22&f35 is less

I already said above that USA is very cunning, unpredictible, tactical country
And with a big customer list of F-16 it needs to build F-16 block 60/62 & 70/72 primarily for customers & as a byproduct benefit it can replace USAF's oldest airframes by these latest blocks.

This will also create funding for 6th gen & MLUed F-22/35.
With time things become lesser & lesser costly.
Just like today in era of 5th gen, 4th gen jets are economical, ALL OF U R SAYING THAT, RIGHT? Similarly, in 2030s & 40s, 5th gen jets for USA will be as economical as compared to Su-30MKI & Rafale to us today.

TEDBF is for navy.

Again i said back that if Rafale can have Navy & AF variants so can TEDBF have its ORCA version with same basic airframe saving cost on different production line, spares, etc.

Depending completely on stealth aircrafts without backup of tejas mk2 is ridiculous

I never said to depend completely on AMCA. Now when we are so much delayed, MK1A & its MLUs can be produced as LSP (Limited Series Production) And i got to know that M2's metal cutting ceremony happened in Feb'21 & its prototype will fly in 2024 & inducted by 2027. That can also be LSP.
But by this time we should accelerate common airframe TEDBF & ORCA like Rafale variants.

a lot of tech of amca is derived from mk2 tejas.

A jet can be divided into 2 basic aspects - H/w & S/w. AMCA's airframe design, cockpit, sensor suite are inspired by 5th gen jets like F-22 & F-35, while MK2 is just inflated LCA airframe. The airframe itself creates a huge difference in stealth, agility, etc.
But the minor concepts like sensors, glass cockpit, HMDS, etc can be backward compatible to MLUs of older gen jets also.
So it would be incorrect to say AMCA tech is derived from MK2. Rather, some sub systems could be common to them.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

MK2 will not become a liability in long or short term. We will keep upgrading it as our MIC grows.

Then let's just keep on upgrading our MiG-29, M2K, Jaguar also. What's the problem? Why u require MK2 to replace them? Have u seen videos & news about upgrade of Mirage-2000s & MiG-29s? New jets are being purchased & current ones are MLUed. Look at this yesterdays video:-

Another one:-

Video uploaded 5 hours ago:-



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMro5Dg_O6E

Let's just see the history from 1st gen to present 5th gen.
In time frame of every gen, the previous gen jets are considered liability.
We r considering MiG-29, Jaguar, Mirage-2000 as liability & are desparately justifying MK2 as replacement.
Similarly after 20 years we will justify replacement of MK2 by some other jet, domestic or foreign.

I forgot to mention in my previous replies that many common people like us forget to take enemy SAMs into consideration bcoz of which stealth becomes important. Bcoz stealth is a 5th gen characteristics, from 6th gen PoV, stealth will become a normal & regular characteristics by next decade.

So MK2 could be produced as LSP in short term but with time in next decade 5th gen tech will become economical bcoz by late 2030s or early 2040s it will b time to introduce 6th gen by USA & EU, can't say about Russia. And hence in long run LCA based MK2 airframe will b liability.
Like Rafale, common airframe TEDBF & ORCA are very important to develop now in an accelerated rate. If still people disagree, which they have right to, then perhaps we should cancel AMCA, TEDBF & keep on upgrading MiG-29, M2K, LCA ultimately with laser pods in future & save money.

Now u guys might ask that why USA is developing laser pod for legacy platforms like Apache & F-16? Well, like i said that USA is very cunning with a secretive industry ecosystem. It will develop inferior version of products for exports & keep the best versions for its future programs. It will always remain ahead & we will always lag.

 

[SavageKing456]

I already said above that USA is very cunning, unpredictible, tactical country
And with a big customer list of F-16 it needs to build F-16 block 60/62 & 70/72 primarily for customers & as a byproduct benefit it can replace USAF's oldest airframes by these latest blocks.

This will also create funding for 6th gen & MLUed F-22/35.
With time things become lesser & lesser costly.
Just like today in era of 5th gen, 4th gen jets are economical, ALL OF U R SAYING THAT, RIGHT? Similarly, in 2030s & 40s, 5th gen jets for USA will be as economical as compared to Su-30MKI & Rafale to us today.

5th gen aircrafts will continue to be costly and nightmare for maintenance until 6th gen aircrafts become mainstream and that isn't going to happen soon.

Again i said back that if Rafale can have Navy & AF variants so can TEDBF have its ORCA version with same basic airframe saving cost on different production line, spares, etc.

Incase you don't know ORCA is not even on paper for IAF,they don't have plans yet even to accommodate such aircraft.
While they already decided about mk2 tejas.

I never said to depend completely on AMCA. Now when we are so much delayed, MK1A & its MLUs can be produced as LSP (Limited Series Production) And i got to know that M2's metal cutting ceremony happened in Feb'21 & its prototype will fly in 2024 & inducted by 2027. That can also be LSP.
But by this time we should accelerate common airframe TEDBF & ORCA like Rafale variants.

ORCA is yet not in cards,how can you develop it.

A jet can be divided into 2 basic aspects - H/w & S/w. AMCA's airframe design, cockpit, sensor suite are inspired by 5th gen jets like F-22 & F-35, while MK2 is just inflated LCA airframe. The airframe itself creates a huge difference in stealth, agility, etc.
But the minor concepts like sensors, glass cockpit, HMDS, etc can be backward compatible to MLUs of older gen jets also.
So it would be incorrect to say AMCA tech is derived from MK2. Rather, some sub systems could be common to them

Not really
The tech gap b/w amca and tejas mk2 is huge but you don't see at as evolving tech
You have to clear the basics first(tejas mk2) and then move to advanced(amca)
Like radar uttam mk2(GaAs) to GaN
Direct jump would be risky and could take even more time than actually going phase by phase.
AMCA tech is indeed derived from mk2 in a sense that it's more advanced.
From IRST(tejas mk2)to conformal EOTS DAS(AMCA)
While some same is FBO,cockpit etc.