AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[SARTHAK]

ADA is working on a trapezoidal wing design as well. From Anantha Krishnan's interview with the TEDBF project director.

in the same interview sir said "we have decided to go forward with this one " for the canard version

 

[Trololo]

How will the wing fold in this case, if this type of wind design in adopeted in TEDBF?

It need not if its built for a much larger carrier (note that Rafale M's wings don't fold). Same thing applies if an IAF version is built. 2030 onwards IAF will be retiring its first lot of Su-30s. Makes sense to replace some of them with an IAF derivative of the TEDBF.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

The only place that IAF can fit in ORCA is as Su-30 replacement, while AMCA takes the medium weight category.

For that to happen the IAF specific ORCA should be heavier than current TEDBF. And its should be more stealthy and have IWB compared to TEDBF. Also, in beast mode OCRA should carry similar payload externally as Su-30mki, and have similar range.

 

[SARTHAK]

The only place that IAF can fit in ORCA is as Su-30 replacement, while AMCA takes the medium weight category.

For that to happen the IAF specific ORCA should be heavier than current TEDBF. And its should be more stealthy and have IWB compared to TEDBF. Also, in beast mode OCRA should carry similar payload externally as Su-30mki, and have similar range.

then what wud be the difference between amca and orca , becz tedbf+iwb+ some changes= amca

 

[WARREN SS]

The only place that IAF can fit in ORCA is as Su-30 replacement, while AMCA takes the medium weight category.

For that to happen the IAF specific ORCA should be heavier than current TEDBF. And its should be more stealthy and have IWB compared to TEDBF. Also, in beast mode OCRA should carry similar payload externally as Su-30mki, and have similar range.

For that Mki should be retired after MLU .

because after MLU it will be operational by 2040 -45
Super mki will itself technologically at par with ORCA
With power full AESA and SDFR
And next generation EW

Also Mki is test bed of all technologies DRDO
Will develop in next 2 decades
For Amca and other etc

AMCA mk2 will only Replacement for Mki's not some 4 generation

 

[WarriorIndian]

For that Mki should be retired after MLU .

because after MLU it will be operational by 2040 -45
Super mki will itself technologically at par with ORCA
With power full AESA and SDFR
And next generation EW

Also Mki is test bed of all technologies DRDO
Will develop in next 2 decades
For Amca and other etc

AMCA mk2 will only Replacement for Mki's not some 4 generation

I dont think SU-30 MKI's will go anywhere for at least the next 3 decades. It will be replaced by something that is still not conceptualized.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Not all Sukhois we have are of MKi standard. The first batch were eight Su-30MKs, the basic version of Su-30. The second batch were 10 Su-30MKIs with French and Israeli avionics. The third batch were to be 10 Su-30MKIs featuring canard foreplanes. The fourth batch of 12 Su-30MKIs and final batch of 10 Su-30MKIs were to have the AL-31FP turbofans.
Thereafter, license production began at HAL, with first aircraft delivered in 2004.

So, it might be the case, that older su-30s are not upgraded by MLU standard. These older aircrafts might be retired after 2035. This opens a space for about 50 ORCA for IAF.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

then what wud be the difference between amca and orca , becz tedbf+iwb+ some changes= amca

Currently TEDBF and AMCA are of similar weight class. But if post 2030, a bigger CATOBAR carrier is develped, that might see a bigger version of TEDBF.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Not all Sukhois we have are of MKi standard. The first batch were eight Su-30MKs, the basic version of Su-30. The second batch were 10 Su-30MKIs with French and Israeli avionics. The third batch were to be 10 Su-30MKIs featuring canard foreplanes. The fourth batch of 12 Su-30MKIs and final batch of 10 Su-30MKIs were to have the AL-31FP turbofans.
Thereafter, license production began at HAL, with first aircraft delivered in 2004.

So, it might be the case, that older su-30s are not upgraded by MLU standard. These older aircrafts might be retired after 2035. This opens a space for about 50 ORCA for IAF.

Those earlier Sukhois are with Angola Air Force right now.

 

[Trololo]

Those earlier Sukhois are with Angola Air Force right now.

Correct. Our fleet is of the MKI standard now. But frankly we can do away with the first 2 squadrons of those by the end of the decade and replace them with an ORCA if the development is timed right. On paper the Rafale is a lot more capable than the MKI. So it won't be wrong to expect the same from the ORCA if it is made in the Rafale's image, which it kind of is.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Correct. Our fleet is of the MKI standard now. But frankly we can do away with the first 2 squadrons of those by the end of the decade and replace them with an ORCA if the development is timed right. On paper the Rafale is a lot more capable than the MKI. So it won't be wrong to expect the same from the ORCA if it is made in the Rafale's image, which it kind of is.

Add more ORCA if you want. But no need for them to replace MKI just yet. We need an Air Force with more than just 42 squadrons. We need all the jets we can get. Right now, even 42 squadrons is a pipe dream.

 

[Trololo]

Add more ORCA if you want. But no need for them to replace MKI just yet. We need an Air Force with more than just 42 squadrons. We need all the jets we can get. Right now, even 42 squadrons is a pipe dream.

This I agree with completely. MKI retirement and new inductions will be done keeping squadron numbers in mind. Anyone has any estimates of squadron strength in 2030?

 

[WarriorIndian]

This I agree with completely. MKI retirement and new inductions will be done keeping squadron numbers in mind. Anyone has any estimates of squadron strength in 2030?

Not more than 36-37 Squadrons by 2030. MKI is a formidable platform which will stay in relevance for at least 3 decades with of course the upgrades.

 

[Gandaberunda]

Add more ORCA if you want. But no need for them to replace MKI just yet. We need an Air Force with more than just 42 squadrons. We need all the jets we can get. Right now, even 42 squadrons is a pipe dream.

I don't think 42 sqaudrons strength will be realised. 42 squadron calculation was done in 1999 now warfare is evolved with drones... 35 squadrons with sizeable Drones fleet and CATs is doable

 

[WarriorIndian]

I don't think 42 sqaudrons strength will be realised. 42 squadron calculation was done in 1999 now warfare is evolved with drones... 35 squadrons with sizeable Drones fleet and CATs is doable

No nation has been completely dependent on drones or even look forward to, no matter how much IA evolves, platforms with human intelligence will be decisive.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

I don't think 42 sqaudrons strength will be realised. 42 squadron calculation was done in 1999 now warfare is evolved with drones... 35 squadrons with sizeable Drones fleet and CATs is doable

On the contrary, I think we should aim for 60+ Squadrons by 2040 and 80+ by 2050 at least. PLAAF is building up at a rapid pace. We can't become too complacent.

What has changed since that calculation of 42 squadrons? The technological edge between PLAAF and IAF has been eliminated and PLAAF has grown in size and is now making 100 jets a year. Meanwhile, Pakistani jets have also gotten marginally more sophisticated although the technological gap has widened between PAF and IAF. Enemy Air Defences have certainly improved multifold. Just goes to show that 42 squadrons isn't enough. At around 70-100 jets produced each year and assuming a 30 year lifespan of these jets, PLAAF could grow to 2500 jets in size, about the same as USAF, in the coming decades. While we do have a geographical advantage over PLAAF, they could still be fielding more jets on LAC in coming decades to offset that advanatage of ours. China is well on its way to exceeding USA in terms of GDP and eventually even in Defence Budget. Time to think big.

But this is OT discussion.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Add more ORCA if you want. But no need for them to replace MKI just yet. We need an Air Force with more than just 42 squadrons. We need all the jets we can get. Right now, even 42 squadrons is a pipe dream.

42 is according to current scenario, in future as PLAAF, PAF, BAF size will increase, so will be the requirement of fighter aircrafts, yes BAF will never be an enemy of India as Bandladesh is a friendly nation due to friendly government but their people are radicalised and in future if they elect a rabid radicalised jihadi as their PM then BAF might be hostile as they are aiming for 5 aircraft squadrons of modern aircraft by 2030, PLAAF will reach 4500+ or even more if they go on a huge military spending spree as their economy can overtake USA in just a few years so 4500+ is a conservative amount of aircraft by 2030 while PAF might be near 1500-1700 aircraft by 2030, so IAF should aim for atleast 3200+ aircrafts, with 45-50 Fighter aircraft squadrons.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

BAF size will increase

Bangladesh is neither interested in nor doing any major military expansion. Not its poor strategic location as well as backwardness in military can ever become a threat for India.

 

[Blank]

Approval and Sanction for AMCA MK1 and MK2 by mid-year.

Govt to soon give nod for indigenous stealth fighters

The stealth fighter could be put into production in the next seven to eight years.

www.hindustantimes.com

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

I think the 42 squadron requirement was done in the 60s, after the 1962 war, mainly to deter a joint threat posed by paf and plaaf.

Many things have changed since then, but this obsession with 42 has remained. Current situation demands 56+ and in the next decade the requirement is only going to rise.