AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

Rassil Krishnan

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TVC ke bina AMCA kya hai? MK2 will come in 2034. I wanted to see AMCA MK1 as a super manoeuvreable aircraft.
Super maneuver ablility is not that critical in the future of air to air combat.infact it is quite vestigial and will probably be discarded by all militaries as a requirement.if your jet requires that in any circumstance,then already you have encountered an unfavorable situation and you should have not got into it in the first place.
 

Spitfire9

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Super maneuver ablility is not that critical in the future of air to air combat.infact it is quite vestigial and will probably be discarded by all militaries as a requirement.if your jet requires that in any circumstance,then already you have encountered an unfavorable situation and you should have not got into it in the first place.
Aren't there quite a few situations in which fighters are sent up to make sure their country's airspace is not violated? I had a friend who flew the BAC Lightning. Lightnings frequently intercepted Soviet Bear bombers over the North Sea (which separates UK from Norway). In a way, the job was to show yourself to the potential intruder. Had those Bears been escorted by fighters I am pretty sure that interception at very close range would have still been the order of the day.

I think there are many situations in which there is the potential for short range combat (eg along disputed borders). Additionally 2 fighters patrolling their own borders can come into close contact. If there is great tension between the countries concerned, combat at short range could take place, could it not?
 

SARTHAK

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Aren't there quite a few situations in which fighters are sent up to make sure their country's airspace is not violated? I had a friend who flew the BAC Lightning. Lightnings frequently intercepted Soviet Bear bombers over the North Sea (which separates UK from Norway). In a way, the job was to show yourself to the potential intruder. Had those Bears been escorted by fighters I am pretty sure that interception at very close range would have still been the order of the day.

I think there are many situations in which there is the potential for short range combat (eg along disputed borders). Additionally 2 fighters patrolling their own borders can come into close contact. If there is great tension between the countries concerned, combat at short range could take place, could it not?
for those roles su 30mki or even tejas mk2 is there
 

kunal1123

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DRDO’s Light Tank Will Be “The Highest Altitude Operable Tank In The Globe”, AMCA Rollout in 2024,Tejas Mk 2 in 2022 : Chairman DRDO – Indian Defence Research Wing


12-15 minutes

SOURCE: BW BUSINESSWORLD

DRDO is tasked to empower India for building capability in defence –that not only limited to armed forces but it is now about technology for today and future which is foundational to growing defence economy. Last year, in the wake of precarious situation at LAC, despite the Covid 19, DRDO had some of the best moment of technological breakthrough with avant garde R&D, speedier trials and turnaround delivery so far. Besides such feet recently, It does get fair and unfair amount of criticism which it carries from the past record and legacy issues.
In a first, Dr G Satheesh Reddy, Secretary DDR&D and Chairman DRDO speaks with Manish Kumar Jha on the entire gamut of current and futuristic projects that will be definitive for India in the world of defence, security and aerospace.
DRDO haas had some of the breakthrough moment in delivering and launching critical equipment for our Forces — among the first few in technology space in the world? Could you talk about such DRDO project delivery under your leadership?
As the head of DRDO, the first big challenge undertaken was the anti-satellite (ASAT) mission and it was a great moment for the nation that we could successfully demonstrate ASAT capability during its maiden launch. India became the fourth nation in the world to showcase the direct hit of an (inactive) orbiting satellite.
In 2020, DRDO has conducted 12 trials within six weeks. This includes MRSAM, HSTDV, Dhruvastra, QRSAM, Rudram, SMART, BrahMos, SANT, Prithvi-2, Nirbhaya Cruise Missile and the like. Trials of the Nirbhay cruise missile, Nag missile, man-portable anti-tank guided missile and other systems have been successfully conducted in the past one year.
We are in a phase of consolidation as well as expanding into futuristic technologies in defence research at DRDO. In last one year itself, five Astra missile systems were delivered to IAF, three sets of 10m Short Span Bridging system given to Indian Army, Indian Maritime Situational Awareness to Indian Navy, first Heavy Weight Torpedo Varunastra were handed over to Indian Navy while JVPC underwent the final phase of user trials. In addition, many systems have successfully undergone trials and are now ready to be inducted into the services.
At the same time, research and development has been initiated in areas of advanced technologies like quantum technologies, artificial intelligence, asymmetric technologies, advanced materials, sensors to make products with cutting-edge capabilities in defence. Defence technologies for space and cyber-security are other areas where we have started work in a big way. Work on indigenous air-independent propulsion systems is progressing well and is ready for deployment.
When are we ready for India’s next gen fighter Jets – AMCA prototype and Tejas Mk 2 (Design and Development)?
Tejas MK-II program is in advance stages of development. After completion of aircraft PDR early last year, the detailed design activities are nearing completion. Manufacturing of long lead parts has already begun and the first prototype is on schedule for rollout in August 2022. Since there are very few unknowns in the programme, activities are moving rapidly.
The configuration of AMCA is frozen and PDR of the configuration is completed. The detailed design activities have commenced and rollout of the first prototype is planned in first half of 2024. The production of AMCA is planned through an SPV which will have large participation from private industries in addition to HAL.
What is the status of jet engine/aero engine for such program? Are we exploring international collaboration with global OEMs for joint co-design and development?
For LCA Mk2, a bigger GE 414 engine is planned to be used and the test trials of the aircraft are expected to happen by 2022. While AMCA Mk-1 will have the same engine, the AMCA Mk-2 will have an indigenous engine. The LCA Mk-2 engine will be replaced with an indigenous one at a later stage.
The aircraft is being designed such that the indigenous engine will fit with minimal changes in the configuration. Kaveri engine design has given enormous experience in various aspects of engine design & development. We are working out the collaboration with engine houses having complementary capabilities for making the new engine with in the country. We are getting closer to achieving the desired technology. We are also expecting international collaboration.
The third new fighter jet that we are working on is the Twin-Engine Deck-Based Fighter (TEDBF) for the Navy. The TEDBF is being developed to replace the Russian-made MiG-29K fighters in service with the Indian Navy. The jet will operate from the current and future aircraft carriers of Indian Navy. TEDBFs is planned to be inducted in service by 2032.
The budget allocated to DRDO remains as per the last year. In comparison with many emerging and advanced countries with their budget spent ~15-20 % on R&D in defence, India puts as low as about 6% of total defence budget. How does it affect the big-ticket research projects underway? What is expected in terms of budgetary allocations?
The defence budget has been increased to 4.78 lakh crore for the Financial Year 2021-22 (FY21-22), which includes capital expenditure worth Rs 1.35 lakh crore. It is nearly 19 per cent increase in defence capital expenditure. This is the highest ever increase in capital outlay for defence in last 15 years.
The Capital allocation for DRDO has been increased to Rs 11,375.50 crore. This is an increase of 8 per cent over 2020-21 and 8.5 per cent over 2019-20.
It was noted that 40% of DRDO’s budget is spent on maintenance and manpower, leaving a lesser margin for buying critical equipment, testing platforms and project development? What is your take in this?
With an increase of 8% in our budget this year, there is less likelihood of major shortage of funds for critical equipment. As much as 20 per cent of resources of each laboratory should be spent on research content of futuristic technologies and DRDO has been spending around 20-25 per cent of the budget on R&D. Human Resources are equally important.
What stage of development are we as far as AIP systems are concerned for Indian Navy’s critical P75 project? This would be first such strategic partnership which MDL is responsible for submarine projects initiatives based upon AIP.
The DRDO developed indigenous AIP propulsion system is a modular system which can be easily configured for any conventional submarine platform. At present the system is configured for P75 submarines and has got the safety and interface acceptance and permission from the Submarine designer M/s NG France. The firm is to undertake the detailed design for its possible integration to the first available P75 platform.
Regarding P75I as per IN request, initial level of interactions have been done with four foreign designers and preliminary interface requirements are obtained from three designers. The preliminary design of DRDO AIP system is studied and feasibility is established for integration of the same in all the three platforms proposed by the designers.
Accordingly, the preliminary design of DRDO AIP is forwarded to the designers. Further action from IN is awaited for next course of action.
Today DRDO launched Fuel Cell based Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) System which crosses important milestone. AIP has a force multiplier effect on lethality of a diesel electric submarine as it enhances the submerged endurance of the boat, several folds. Fuel cell-based AIP has merits in performance compared to other technologies.
The system is being developed by Naval Materials Research Laboratory (NMRL) of DRDO.
While there are different types of AIP systems being pursued internationally, fuel cell-based AIP of NMRL is unique as the hydrogen is generated onboard. The technology has been successfully developed with the support of industry partners L&T and Thermax. It has now reached the stage of maturity for fitment into target vessels.
Could you throw light on India’s next generation UAVs for our forces that might set benchmark capability?
DRDO has envisaged the need for a dedicated test range for testing and evaluation range to handle the fast-growing requirements of UAVs. Aeronautical Test Range has been established at Chitradurga, which is the only range for flight testing of UAVs in the country.
Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE) is working on UAV configurations. Our laboratories CAIR and R&DE(E) are working on autonomous technologies and development of various kinds of robots for multiple applications. DRDO young scientist laboratories are also working on the technologies required for UAVs and robotics.
MALE UAV TAPAS BH-201 (Rustom II) programme has an operational range of 1000 km and payload capacity of 350 kg with an endurance of 24 hours at 30,000 ft altitude. It will carry variety of payloads such as Long Range Electro Optic (LREO) payload and Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) MPAR, ELINT, COMINT, IFF, TCAS, UCR etc. depending upon the ISR mission requirements.
Abhyas is an expandable aerial target for practice firing by Armed forces. It is being used for many SAM trials and has enormous potential for use for practice sessions.
What is the USP of DRDO’s proposed light tank for the Indian Army and especially for the mountain corps? Any acceptance and delivery timeline if you could tell us?
The need of light weight tank is felt in today’s scenario especially for the mountainous regions. The configuration is worked out.
The USP of DRDO’s proposed light tank for the Indian Army is that it will be fitted with High Altitude Operable Power pack (Engine + Transmission) of 1000hp and will be capable of firing multiple ammunition. This tank may be called as “highest altitude operable tank in the globe”. The design work has commenced and we will bring out the timelines.
Saras (crane) Mk1 multi-purpose light civilian aircraft, designed by the National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL), which works closely with HAL, DRDO and the IAF–what is the case now?
This is not under the purview of DRDO, hence, I would not comment.
Artificial Intelligence is the now hugely used in unmanned reconnaissance aircraft, the unmanned ground combat vehicle, the unmanned submersible systems. How India is developing. Should not we lead in such technology with our strong Informational Technology base?
In fact, the artificial Intelligence is set up in all of DRDo divisions as they are working on set of systems as varied as land, air and naval. I agree with you that we could have led on this front.
Besides donning leadership role as DRDO’s Chairman, foremost, you are India’s leading aerospace scientist. I would like you to tell us your vision for DRDO as it is to play very vital role in India’s development. Though credited, DRDO is also often criticised for being too large; deliberates and drags too much on unviable projects and sometimes too bureaucratic as a leading R&D organisation for 22nd century India? How do you bring change?
DRDO with its existing capabilities is poised to take up system development in the emerging dimensions of warfare and in the fields of artificial intelligence, quantum technology, photonics, cyber technology and the like. DRDO scientists are working in niche defence technology areas for building next generation systems, weapons and platforms and have chartered out paths to harness these technologies. Scientists are collaborating extensively with academia in the blue-sky research and with industry to develop defence systems in the shortest time frame.
A number of activities pertaining to various systems like AEW&C, AMCA, Guided Pinaka, Radar systems, Missile systems, Underwater Unmanned Systems are planned for 2021.
There are many other defence technologies and systems DRDO has taken up for development. DRDO will be responding ably to the future war fighting requirements of the tri-services with advanced technologies. Constructive criticism is welcome and we will continually strive to improve ourselves. Considering the number of systems and technologies that DRDO is working on, DRDO has optimally deployed its scientific manpower on important projects.
 

The Maverick

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guys,how realistic is it that Amca will fly first prototype 2025 or 2026 and initial.ops clearance is 2030 .
imo I can't see first this entering service 10 years after first flight ie,2035 or more
 

Lonewolf

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guys,how realistic is it that Amca will fly first prototype 2025 or 2026 and initial.ops clearance is 2030 .
imo I can't see first this entering service 10 years after first flight ie,2035 or more
Why so ,
Just because of timeline of others or any other reason.

Well remind you , most countries delayed either due to lack of funds , too many component manufacturer , lack of experience , and some others

We are doing a concurrent program , we are building a less advanced version of sensor in tejas mk 2 , radar will be commonality among tedbf , amca , inputs from tejas mk 2 , tejas mk 1a .

Airframe is more or less confirmed , cfd studies are helping a lot .

Many tech like fly by wire are already in development , if we had to follow kfx suite we could had first flight in 2023 itself .

We are doing research on conformal antenna , proper info may come out after 2 3 years , stealth coating is in development and milestone are achieved , but a lot of work is remaining to make it less maintenance hungry.

MFD , mission computer are being developed for mk 2 , which would give us experience to build better and advanced mission computer ,hope they achieve f 35 level , fly by optic is in Development also a lot of components which seems insignificant but cause hurdles are being realised and solved .

First flight will most probably in end of 2025 ,with some delays .

We are too much coped with tejas saga , but future projects are different story ,this year funding will be released most probably and ada will go in mission mode.

Look at aerodynamic it is much more refined , and won't require major changes .

We are not trying something unachievable , china was in almost same state and did j 20 , even though they haven't designed planes by themselves earlier , don't say tejas is a copy of mirage 2000 , they are different .
We have a good design ,what is required is funding and we will get it on time
 

Spitfire9

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guys,how realistic is it that Amca will fly first prototype 2025 or 2026 and initial.ops clearance is 2030 .
imo I can't see first this entering service 10 years after first flight ie,2035 or more
Tejas took just about 13 years from first flight Jan 2001 to IOC Dec 2013. Even with the development and testing experience gained from Tejas, 4-5 years from AMCA first flight to IOC looks mighty challenging to me. How many aircraft would be involved in the test program?
 

SARTHAK

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Why so ,
Just because of timeline of others or any other reason.

Well remind you , most countries delayed either due to lack of funds , too many component manufacturer , lack of experience , and some others

We are doing a concurrent program , we are building a less advanced version of sensor in tejas mk 2 , radar will be commonality among tedbf , amca , inputs from tejas mk 2 , tejas mk 1a .

Airframe is more or less confirmed , cfd studies are helping a lot .

Many tech like fly by wire are already in development , if we had to follow kfx suite we could had first flight in 2023 itself .

We are doing research on conformal antenna , proper info may come out after 2 3 years , stealth coating is in development and milestone are achieved , but a lot of work is remaining to make it less maintenance hungry.

MFD , mission computer are being developed for mk 2 , which would give us experience to build better and advanced mission computer ,hope they achieve f 35 level , fly by optic is in Development also a lot of components which seems insignificant but cause hurdles are being realised and solved .

First flight will most probably in end of 2025 ,with some delays .

We are too much coped with tejas saga , but future projects are different story ,this year funding will be released most probably and ada will go in mission mode.

Look at aerodynamic it is much more refined , and won't require major changes .

We are not trying something unachievable , china was in almost same state and did j 20 , even though they haven't designed planes by themselves earlier , don't say tejas is a copy of mirage 2000 , they are different .
We have a good design ,what is required is funding and we will get it on time
For us tejas mk2 will be more important than amca, the mk2 will surely tell the progress we made and give us an indication of what we can achieve in amca
 

Ghost hale

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Ok few points here....
1. AMCA 1:1 for stealth and design test to be ready by 2022. Metal cutting already started and first prototype is planned for first half 2024. Most tech required are already developed and can be matured with a decade and even later as improved AMCA Mk2 is already planned out for production 2034 to iron out kinks. Currently minimum 3-4 prototypes are planned.
2. AMCA won't go KF-X as TEDBF is more of KF-X which might either converge with AMCA or go for stealth in mk-2 if required.
3. Project AZM is a joke. J-31 or even move low maybe J-20 will become AZM in next 7-8 years. As no testing is required similar to block 3 of intergalactic fighter.

Lastly I believe if current government stays for one more term, there are high chances of deadline to be met or delayed at max by a year or so. Keep eye on first ground test vehicle by 2022 and rest can be seen as per that schedule and AF MK2 is 2026 for production.
 

FalconSlayers

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Ok few points here....
1. AMCA 1:1 for stealth and design test to be ready by 2022. Metal cutting already started and first prototype is planned for first half 2024. Most tech required are already developed and can be matured with a decade and even later as improved AMCA Mk2 is already planned out for production 2034 to iron out kinks. Currently minimum 3-4 prototypes are planned.
2. AMCA won't go KF-X as TEDBF is more of KF-X which might either converge with AMCA or go for stealth in mk-2 if required.
3. Project AZM is a joke. J-31 or even move low maybe J-20 will become AZM in next 7-8 years. As no testing is required similar to block 3 of intergalactic fighter.

Lastly I believe if current government stays for one more term, there are high chances of deadline to be met or delayed at max by a year or so. Keep eye on first ground test vehicle by 2022 and rest can be seen as per that schedule and AF MK2 is 2026 for production.
Why don’t we do joint development of tech with IPR remaining with us, so that it happens early and is of high quality.
 

SARTHAK

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IMHO though many wud disagree ,we should focus more on amca ew suite and electronic support measures like rwr, maws, lrf etc and make sure the amca sensors going into tejas mk2 (even if mk2 gets late by a year or 1.5 yrs) that will help us for amca and give us the rquired time to come up with fully optimized version of amca
 

Lonewolf

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Why don’t we do joint development of tech with IPR remaining with us, so that it happens early and is of high quality.
Which tech , this is required in engine part only , tell me other field , if ew suite is your answer ,then maybe we should wait 2 3 years to anwer that ,as our advanced ew suite are under development , this tech won't be ready too early like other parts but will surely be on time
 

Ghost hale

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Why don’t we do joint development of tech with IPR remaining with us, so that it happens early and is of high quality.
No other tech except engine is currently an issue for self development. It seems great idea to go for joint development but discussions, negotiations and after development contracts etc. are quite a hassle and is best to be avoided if u have capability to self develop any tech. We are quite ahead in many fields than most its just we are lacking in publicity or more to say propaganda & lobbying department as well as can't fully release info due to our world standing. Don't worry, if something really bad doesn't happen, this will change quite dramatically in couple of decades.
IMHO though many wud disagree ,we should focus more on amca ew suite and electronic support measures like rwr, maws, lrf etc and make sure the amca sensors going into tejas mk2 (even if mk2 gets late by a year or 1.5 yrs) that will help us for amca and give us the rquired time to come up with fully optimized version of amca
Regarding EW suite we have absolutely zero performance comparisons so any claims to speed up or delay production to improve it is a bit hasty IMO. I for that have to believe it is what IAF asked for till told otherwise by official sources.
 

Spitfire9

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mk2 will surely tell the progress we made and give us an indication of what we can achieve in amca
Sounds right and reasoned to me. I think it is a shame that a non-PSU was not included in the programme . It would have meant HAL learning more about working with private industry, knowledge that could help in the AMCA programme.
 

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