Alternatives to Dassault Rafale

[smestarz]

Rafale can be armed to all the scenario you described in a single mission because of its 14 hardpoints.

This is what I call Marketing. It has 14 hard points yes, now assume that the planes are based in Mumbai and they have to strike a target in say in Quetta or Rawalpindi, what as per you will they be armed with?
A2A? A2G? A2S ?
Arming a plane is mission specific. they do not randomly go on arming a plane with everything, A2A missiles yes, and A2G misiles for this scenario, they would not be arming it with A2S missile because they feel they might find a naval ship on the way. Thats not how it works. That happens only on brochures or during Aero Expo. Give it a thought, and it might look stupid to find an A2S missile for this mission
One thing at present is that the upgraded Su-30 MKI can fire the available Brahmos A, Rafale cannot do that at all.. And Brahmos A is available

 

[smestarz]

Isn't the whole problem with MKI is reliability(sortie rate), engine issues?

OK since you took out the point, please read this.

Govt takes note of Su-30MKI's poor 'serviceability' | Business Standard News

MoD was informed about serious problems with IAF's management of spares. By standard norms, a fighter fleet consumes five per cent of its worth in consumables and spares each year. By that benchmark the Su-30MKI fleet, currently worth about Rs 69,000 crore - 193 Su-30MKIs at Rs 358 crore a fighter - should consume spares worth Rs 3,450 crore annually. Yet, IAF orders from HAL add up to less than Rs 50 crore, including ground handling equipment.

Now I shall give you my logic and you tell me your views

The Ministry of Defence (Finance) raised the red flag in January this year after the IAF moved a proposal for Follow On Support Contract (FOSC) for five years at an estimated cost of Rs 507 crore for maintenance and related issues of Pilatus aircraft — almost three times the cost for repairs and maintenance presumed at the time of evaluation of the lowest bidder (L1).
Defence finance wing redflags UPA's trainer aircraft deal | The Indian Express

Now we have 75 pilatus Trainers, which cost Rs 40 crore each. and IAF wants to spend Rs 100 crore per year for spares.
So, 75 piston engine planes, costing 40 crore each, 100 crore worth of spares per year

But as per the earlier link I gave you. IAF spends 50 crores per year for the fleet of 240+ Su-30 MKI which are Twin engined jet planes
As per the article, Su-30 MKI requires spares worth Rs 3450 crore per year
So. 240 + jet engine planes, Costing 358 crores each, money on spares Rs 50 crores.

Does this really look correct to your logic? Dont you feel there is something wrong?
If you are not going to make the spares available for a plane, how the hell does IAF expect the plane to be available?
The planes just dont repair themselves.

 

[SajeevJino]

This is what I call Marketing. It has 14 hard points yes, now assume that the planes are based in Mumbai and they have to strike a target in say in Quetta or Rawalpindi, what as per you will they be armed with?
A2A? A2G? A2S ?
Arming a plane is mission specific. they do not randomly go on arming a plane with everything, A2A missiles yes, and A2G misiles for this scenario, they would not be arming it with A2S missile because they feel they might find a naval ship on the way. Thats not how it works. That happens only on brochures or during Aero Expo. Give it a thought, and it might look stupid to find an A2S missile for this mission
One thing at present is that the upgraded Su-30 MKI can fire the available Brahmos A, Rafale cannot do that at all.. And Brahmos A is available

Tell me about this config on Rafale, A2A or A2G

 

[smestarz]

Fool they are completely different. As an example boy:-
Mig-35 is a modified more capable version of mig-29.But right now it has no customar.

I am not going to reply to a retard. there was no MiG-35 in the post at all, we were talking of F/A-18 and its versions, but remember one thing babe, The numbers of F/A-18 E/F is more than whatever nos of Rafales still produced,. and the F/A 18 other versions are more than 4 times Rafale produced. So Shut the F up

 

[smestarz]

Tell me about this config on Rafale, A2A or A2G

You really have problem understanding the configurations? Really?
Wow

The rules are simple, for an MRCA and almost any, it is always armed with a A2A missiles, because it has to ensure that it has to be able to fly out of trouble. No present MRCA will have an entire A2G configuration, it will have A2A missiles as a Rule.

Now for an A2G mission, which is this particular config in the photo (and a long range one) thats why it has 3 drop tanks
It has A2G missiles (black ones) and 4 Mica on the end of the wings (2 each) and it has 2 missiles which look obscured by the Fuel tanks.

Thus this is an MRCA configuration but for long range strike/interdiction.

Having only A2A missiles means that its on air superiority mission, but having 4-6 A2G missiles means that it is on interdiction mission. Multi role planes carry A2A missiles during interdiction mission, it is nothing extra ordinary. How do you expect them to fight off in case they are jumped?

 

[smestarz]

Man do some research on Rafale and then talk harsh like an idiot by saying that it is for marketing purposes only.

I have done already and found it not to be something extra ordinary. So the guy who tells me that he does not have time to do search of google for OMNI ROLE, should not talk about it, because you do not know about it. BOY.

 

[smestarz]

And now i am pretty much sure that you dont know anything about omnirole.Let me tell you boy:-
1)Rafale has 14 hardpoints compared to 12 in su-30mki.
2)Rafale can switch it mission type while airborne without reducing its combat effectiveness.
This is what omrirole is,You fool.

Having two pylons more makes it Omni role? Wow..........
The config that your friend posted, you are sure its omni role, can it attack and destroy a destroyer which is found in the vicinity?

 

[smestarz]

Tell me about this config on Rafale, A2A or A2G

Photos: Sukhoi Su-30MKI Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

What about this configuration?

 

[smestarz]

Tell me about this config on Rafale, A2A or A2G

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lto9RRogL...85208_103329156428208_427670_1424765632_n.jpg

Let me introduce you to HAL TEJAS, if Rafale is about 120 million per plane this is just 25-30% of the price,
And yes, this is a Light MRCA, In the cost of 1 Rafale can have 3-4 of these and do better job of it.
BETTER bang per buck and same is the case of su-30 MKI, better bang per buck, you did see the nice Brahmos A slung under the belly, yes?

 

[SajeevJino]

Photos: Sukhoi Su-30MKI Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

What about this configuration?

http://www.airliners.net/photo/India---Air/Sukhoi-Su-30MKI/1962782/L/

Ha ha you shown a Image of Su with four 100kg FAB unguided Bombs with a Single Brahmos Missile, Tell me who is more Powerful compared to any role whether A2A or A2G

While I shown a SIX Guided PGM along with another 6 AAM

and Tell me what those Unguided bomb can do in this Modern Battle.. several artillery rounds can do the same

 

[sgarg]

Vow what a discussion going on. Thread growing really fast. Don't know if GOI purchases Rafale, but going by sparring here, there are some really big fanboys here.

If GOI runs out of money (to buy it), I am sure the fanboys can collect "chanda" and send the money to Dassault.

After-all if private armies can function in Ukraine, what is wrong in private funds for Rafale?

Please convert your desire to action - start collecting "chanda" to buy Rafale.

 

[SajeevJino]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lto9RRogL...85208_103329156428208_427670_1424765632_n.jpg

Let me introduce you to HAL TEJAS, if Rafale is about 120 million per plane this is just 25-30% of the price,
And yes, this is a Light MRCA, In the cost of 1 Rafale can have 3-4 of these and do better job of it.
BETTER bang per buck and same is the case of su-30 MKI, better bang per buck, you did see the nice Brahmos A slung under the belly, yes?

During past we discussed about the 4 LCA = 1 Rafale game,

please stay off from the price Tag.. you even don't have an idea about it

 

[smestarz]

Swing role for IAF is a new thing. IAF strategy or tactics has always been target specific and they do tend to ignore other targets which they might come across. Thus SWING ROLE is matter of Strategy and not limited to a plane only.. After all it says Swing role.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0w8jBMqeaxA/UHID55031gI/AAAAAAAACDo/Wrk3vsto1VA/s1600/Su-30MKI.jpg
This is Su-30 MKI with all the dumb bombs, notice that the 4 pylons are empty, which usually should have A2A missiles

During second world war, Britain did use its Tanks as infantry support vehicles, and always went with infantry. where as the earlier german tanks wee less powerful, but they did attack together as a fist of iron. and that is what gave Germans the success. they did not dilute the power they had.
It is all matter of strategy and tactics and how the Force thinks, and not about the plane as you say.

Are you trying to say that Su-30 MKI cannot be armed with A2G and A2A missiles simultaneously? Or it cannot carry out two missions simultaneously? I would love to have your point here

 

[SajeevJino]

Vow what a discussion going on. Thread growing really fast. Don't know if GOI purchases Rafale, but going by sparring here, there are some really big fanboys here.

If GOI runs out of money (to buy it), I am sure the fanboys can collect "chanda" and send the money to Dassault.

After-all if private armies can function in Ukraine, what is wrong in private funds for Rafale?

Please convert your desire to action - start collecting "chanda" to buy Rafale.

let me say your POV, we India is a Poor country, instead of buying Fighter Jets,Feed the starving peoples, build some toilets, blah blah

 

[smestarz]

Vow what a discussion going on. Thread growing really fast. Don't know if GOI purchases Rafale, but going by sparring here, there are some really big fanboys here.

If GOI runs out of money (to buy it), I am sure the fanboys can collect "chanda" and send the money to Dassault.

After-all if private armies can function in Ukraine, what is wrong in private funds for Rafale?

Please convert your desire to action - start collecting "chanda" to buy Rafale.

Lol, funny quote. Things are just spicing up here where Rafale fan boys are pimping Rafale as Swing role, when they dont understand that Swing role is primarily a matter of Doctrine, that flows from the Top (chief of air staff etc) else India is more happy arming their planes only as per present doctrine says.

 

[sgarg]

Photos: Sukhoi Su-30MKI Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

Ha ha you shown a Image of Su with four 100kg FAB unguided Bombs with a Single Brahmos Missile, Tell me who is more Powerful compared to any role whether A2A or A2G

While I shown a SIX Guided PGM along with another 6 AAM

and Tell me what those Unguided bomb can do in this Modern Battle.. several artillery rounds can do the same

Su-30/Su-27 is being used by several air forces in addition to Russian Air Force. It is a very successful line of fighters. Your love for Rafale is laudable; but the fact remains that Su-30 can pretty much do what a Rafale can do.

There are a number of weapons available for Su-30 and a picture proves nothing.

Please refer to ..:: India Strategic ::. IAF: Sukhoi Su-30SM: An Indian Gift to Russia’s Air Force for a profile on Su-30.

 

[smestarz]

let me say your POV, we India is a Poor country, instead of buying Fighter Jets,Feed the starving peoples, build some toilets, blah blah

You could have a job as toilet cleaner, its an unskilled job, so you could be OK for you. BTW, you are in India or Israel? If you are in India then well you do not know whats happening and you should get out of your house too often, and if you are in israel, still the same advice.
Stick to the topic.. please

 

[SajeevJino]

Swing role for IAF is a new thing. IAF strategy or tactics has always been target specific and they do tend to ignore other targets which they might come across. Thus SWING ROLE is matter of Strategy and not limited to a plane only.. After all it says Swing role.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0w8jBMqeaxA/UHID55031gI/AAAAAAAACDo/Wrk3vsto1VA/s1600/Su-30MKI.jpg
This is Su-30 MKI with all the dumb bombs, notice that the 4 pylons are empty, which usually should have A2A missiles

During second world war, Britain did use its Tanks as infantry support vehicles, and always went with infantry. where as the earlier german tanks wee less powerful, but they did attack together as a fist of iron. and that is what gave Germans the success. they did not dilute the power they had.
It is all matter of strategy and tactics and how the Force thinks, and not about the plane as you say.

It's nothing but a bomber Configuration packing 18 unguided bombs to drop enemy area for Surgical attack..

Are you trying to say that Su-30 MKI cannot be armed with A2G and A2A missiles simultaneously? Or it cannot carry out two missions simultaneously? I would love to have your point here

The role of the Mission exactly

If Su 30 carries a Brahmos it can able to launch only one missile and switch it's primary Air superiority role

wHile Rafale can strike a Specific Target and hover fight against enemy jets again attack a Tank or Building and hover and Fight against enemy Jets, repeat repeat repeat

 

[smestarz]

Su-30/Su-27 is being used by several air forces in addition to Russian Air Force. It is a very successful line of fighters. Your love for Rafale is laudable; but the fact remains that Su-30 can pretty much do what a Rafale can do.

There are a number of weapons available for Su-30 and a picture proves nothing.

And at present Su-30 MKI is only plane could fire Brahmos A. Rafale cannot and never will. the missile is too big for it

 

[SajeevJino]

Su-30/Su-27 is being used by several air forces in addition to Russian Air Force. It is a very successful line of fighters. Your love for Rafale is laudable; but the fact remains that Su-30 can pretty much do what a Rafale can do.

There are a number of weapons available for Su-30 and a picture proves nothing.

did i said anything wrong about Su 30 air superiority role,

Yes those Su 30 can carry the KH 31 too for that it can't be a omnirole