Alternatives to Dassault Rafale

[jaciunite2]

I would be happy as well if the IAF goes for the MIG 35, it is a far superior plane than the Rafale (unlike what the west controlled press portray it to be). Unfortunately, the MMRCA was a stop gap measure, so they wanted planes that were ready and already in production (and tried and tested in actual combat), rather than under development( the reason why it went out in the first round of qualification).

Also its a technical glitch, that once the MMRCA is concluded, the disqualified participants cant re enter. So we are stuck with the Rafale and cant even consider the Euro fighter or Griphen. I personally hope that the Indian Govt. scraps the MMRCA and directly goes for the MIG 35. We already have the MIG 29 in our arsenal, so going for the MIG 35 makes perfect sense as it wont turn into a logistical nightmare.

We also know the unit cost of the MIG 35, thanks to the MMRCA, so even the Russians cant take us for a ride, besides the point that the Rouble has colapsed significantly so we could actually get a good deal, and with the Russians reluctant to use the dollar, we could either pay them in Rs, or Rouble, saving us some foreign exchange!.

Also the fact that France is the only nation making the Rafale, is always portrayed as a positive attribute of the deal, as other nations cant influence it . But as we saw with the Mistral's , its not the case. But if France is the only supplier of weapons and spares, they could and would be in a position to blackmail us into paying any and all cost for them.

Look at first we are not gona have a aircraft made in foreign country.
Its make in india.so we have to create a production facility in india for rafale also.
Mig-35 may have come long time ago.
Russian right now do not have interest or money for this aircraft.
They are investing more on PAK-FA AND SU-35.Remembered mig-29k which came to existence after india invested on it.And right now the aircraft so good and cost effective that they also have it for their aircraft carrier.So i am 100% sure if they invested in this and create production line in india this is gona ne a awesome machine.Mig have shown this machine first time in 2007 at aero india and if india have decided to go with it then today we gonna have a first AESA radar aircraft in IAF Inventory.

 

[Lone Ranger]

Look at first we are not gona have a aircraft made in foreign country.
Its make in india.so we have to create a production facility in india for rafale also.
Mig-35 may have come long time ago.
Russian right now do not have interest or money for this aircraft.
They are investing more on PAK-FA AND SU-35.Remembered mig-29k which came to existence after india invested on it.And right now the aircraft so good and cost effective that they also have it for their aircraft carrier.So i am 100% sure if they invested in this and create production line in india this is gona ne a awesome machine.Mig have shown this machine first time in 2007 at aero india and if india have decided to go with it then today we gonna have a first AESA radar aircraft in IAF Inventory.

There is no alternative to rafale , specially no more russian flying coffins.

 

[smestarz]

There is no alternative to rafale , specially no more russian flying coffins.

How many countries are using Rafale as of now? Just one, which is France,
Hence there are alternatives, there is always an alternatives if you give it a thought.
It is not a plane like B2 which really has no counterpart as of now.

 

[SajeevJino]

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The Alternate to an Dassault Rafale is the another Dassault Rafale

stick and Take care

 

[smestarz]

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The Alternate to an Dassault Rafale is the another Dassault Rafale

stick and Take care

You should try to visit and read on forums more often and you can see too many alternatives.
If you did read about MRCA there were 5 other alternatives, and adding Su-35 and Su-30 MKI are two more. that makes it 7 alternatives or rather 5 twin engine alternatives... If you do have difficulty counting, here it is
a) Su-30 MKI
b) Su-35
c) Eurofighter typhoon
d) MiG-35
e) F/A-18

Now if you talk of operationwise. Rafale does not come close to experience as that of F/A-18 and yes it has been exported to many countries.
Su-30 and Eurofighter has sold more nos than Rafale and to more countries (does getting an order and paying for it themselves count as an order? Only MiG-35 is the non-operational plane, By the way Su-35 has more export orders at present than Rafale. this is FYI

 

[SajeevJino]

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@smestarz

As of my Understanding only available Proven MMRCA, listed as

Rafale
Typhoon
F 15 E

other all twin engines are not suited for mmrca

 

[jaciunite2]

How many countries are using Rafale as of now? Just one, which is France,
Hence there are alternatives, there is always an alternatives if you give it a thought.
It is not a plane like B2 which really has no counterpart as of now.

Are you jokingggg man

 

[jaciunite2]

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The Alternate to an Dassault Rafale is the another Dassault Rafale

stick and Take care

You cant tell this right now when our defence minister is saying openly that they can buy more sukhoi-30mki instead of rafale.And the only way to buy another aircraft is to scrap the whole mmrca and then buy one.

 

[smestarz]

.
@smestarz

As of my Understanding only available Proven MMRCA, listed as

Rafale
Typhoon
F 15 E

other all twin engines are not suited for mmrca

Technically F-15 E Su-30, Su-35 and Eurofighter are air superiority planes which now have the capability for Strike,
Rafale on other hand was designed as purpose built MRCA because the French did not want to invest on two different platforms (air superiority and strike) and hence the avionics that Rafale got from start were for both these roles.
Su-30, Su-35 and Eurofighter are now evolving for strike capability
So how are the other planes that you did not mention not qualify as MRCA?

Su-30 MKI with all its A2G arsenal does not qualify as MRCA?

 

[SajeevJino]

How many countries are using Rafale as of now? Just one, which is France,
Hence there are alternatives, there is always an alternatives if you give it a thought.
It is not a plane like B2 which really has no counterpart as of now.

How many Countries use the Su 35 or the MiG 35

Except the EU only the Saudi's using the Typhoon

 

[SajeevJino]

Technically F-15 E Su-30, Su-35 and Eurofighter are air superiority planes which now have the capability for Strike,

Su-30, Su-35 and Eurofighter are now evolving for strike capability
So how are the other planes that you did not mention not qualify as MRCA?

Su-30 MKI with all its A2G arsenal does not qualify as MRCA?

you know that F 15 E is modified structural changes to carryout Ground Attacks

Rafale on other hand was designed as purpose built MRCA because the French did not want to invest on two different platforms (air superiority and strike) and hence the avionics that Rafale got from start were for both these roles.

so my take a Fighter born as a MMRCA

 

[bose]

It is too late now to think for alternative, if Dassault abides by the RFP clauses, it is better to close the deal and save IAF from dwindling numbers of aircrafts.

 

[smestarz]

Are you jokingggg man

I did put a logic too, if I was joking, I would not give my logic,
Did you know about the MRCA competition? there were total 6 competitors, 4 were twin engined ones.
Its not like that Rafale is something like B-2
Thus there are alternatives. Get used to it dear.
Also Su-30 MKI is more "India friendly" as of now than Rafale, btw if you plan to use Indian weapons on Rafale that will be a certain extra.
And further we end up providing some database about our weapons also.

 

[smestarz]

you know that F 15 E is modified structural changes to carryout Ground Attacks

so my take a Fighter born as a MMRCA

F-15E did not have structural changes to carry out strike, it was modified to try and reduce its RCS.

Your take is different than others, Su-30 MKI as reported costs abt 1/3 as that of Rafale, thus when you talk in terms of nos and capability then newer Su-30 MKI will be available more faster.

 

[smestarz]

It is too late now to think for alternative, if Dassault abides by the RFP clauses, it is better to close the deal and save IAF from dwindling numbers of aircrafts.

It is never late to avoid chronic stupidity. Even if you cancel RFP there is no shame in it. For example Switzerland though accepted Rafale was better plane, selected Gripen for its price. do you think the swiss are embarrassed? Are the brazilians embarrassed? We live in a country where people pee road side without shame, what embarrassment are you talking about? When we are thinking of giving 15 billion dollars (inclusive of kickbacks) we have the right to refuse or cancel. Its not as if dassault is giving the plane free.

Do you know the best way to save the dwindling nos of IAF?
a) Induct Tejas in big quantity. (Tejas 1 gets inducted in 40s)
b) Call for faster development and Operational clearances for Tejas II
c) Remind IAF that the budget that they have is not for puchasing planes but also spares. Thus if they do put in Rs 3450 crore for the spares of 270+ Su-30 MKI the dwindling nos that you talk of will be available. The present spares that they buy is about Rs 50 crore and you expect the Su-30 to be available even if IAF does not buy spares and shortage of spares?

Your turn to answer now

 

[SajeevJino]

F-15E did not have structural changes to carry out strike, it was modified to try and reduce its RCS.

from wiki about the Structural change of F 15 to F 15 E config

The F-15E prototype was a modification of the two-seat F-15B. The F-15E, despite its origins, includes significant structural changes and much more powerful engines. The aft fuselage was designed to incorporate the more powerful engines with advanced engine bay structures and doors. The advanced structures utilized Superplastic forming and diffusion bonding (SPF/DB) technologies. The back seat is equipped for a Weapon Systems Officer (WSO pronounced 'wizzo') to work the new air-to-ground avionics. The WSO uses multiple screens to display information from the radar, electronic warfare, or Thermographic cameras, monitor aircraft or weapons status and possible threats, select targets, and use an electronic moving map to navigate. Two hand controls are used to select new displays and to refine targeting information. Displays can be moved from one screen to another, chosen from a menu of display options. Unlike earlier two-place jets (e.g. the F-14 Tomcat and Navy variants of the F-4), whose back seat lacked flying controls, the back seat of the F-15E cockpit is equipped with its own stick and throttle so the WSO can take over flying, albeit with reduced visibility

Your take is different than others, Su-30 MKI as reported costs abt 1/3 as that of Rafale, thus when you talk in terms of nos and capability then newer Su-30 MKI will be available more faster.

Thousandth time for now I don't think the Su 30 can be the MMRCA

 

[jaciunite2]

I did put a logic too, if I was joking, I would not give my logic,
Did you know about the MRCA competition? there were total 6 competitors, 4 were twin engined ones.
Its not like that Rafale is something like B-2
Thus there are alternatives. Get used to it dear.
Also Su-30 MKI is more "India friendly" as of now than Rafale, btw if you plan to use Indian weapons on Rafale that will be a certain extra.
And further we end up providing some database about our weapons also.

There is something other aircraft does not have.You want to know what it is?
Rafale is a omnirole flighter. I dont think you know this logic man.

 

[bose]

It is never late to avoid chronic stupidity. Even if you cancel RFP there is no shame in it. For example Switzerland though accepted Rafale was better plane, selected Gripen for its price. do you think the swiss are embarrassed? Are the brazilians embarrassed? We live in a country where people pee road side without shame, what embarrassment are you talking about? When we are thinking of giving 15 billion dollars (inclusive of kickbacks) we have the right to refuse or cancel. Its not as if dassault is giving the plane free.

We have right to refuse if and only if Dassault does not agree with the terms of RFP, it has been selected based on merits as claimed by IAF... How come suddenly we have become so wise and understood the chronic stupidity...

Do you know the best way to save the dwindling nos of IAF?
a) Induct Tejas in big quantity. (Tejas 1 gets inducted in 40s)
b) Call for faster development and Operational clearances for Tejas II
c) Remind IAF that the budget that they have is not for puchasing planes but also spares. Thus if they do put in Rs 3450 crore for the spares of 270+ Su-30 MKI the dwindling nos that you talk of will be available. The present spares that they buy is about Rs 50 crore and you expect the Su-30 to be available even if IAF does not buy spares and shortage of spares?

Your turn to answer now

It is easy said than done... HAL will struggle to scale up the production of TEJAS from 6 to 12...

First HAL get the production line started for TEJAS then TEJAS Mark - II will not start production before 2018 / 2020 at earliest...

 

[bose]

The Dassault Rafale deal is going to be signed on Modi's up comming visit to France in April 2015.

 

[jaciunite2]

There is no alternative to rafale , specially no more russian flying coffins.

Are you really not drunk????
How could anyone can call russian fighters flying coffin without being drunk????