Altay Tank - The New Beast on the block!

[farhan_9909]

@Damian
we should cut off the nuclear discussion and muslim countries.as it will derail the threat

what i wanted to prove is proved.tank was tested by Pakistan as oppose to you who said nothing as such happened

beside this 99% of pakistani's want to cease relation with nato/usa.
we started wot for them and the after effects are clearly visible.

and if nato would have not wanted pakistan.pak might never be a major non nato ally

 

[farhan_9909]

Beside this future lies in OIC and SCO
nato is now a past tense

 

[Damian]

what i wanted to prove is proved.tank was tested by Pakistan as oppose to you who said nothing as such happened

It seems you have problems with english. So I will explain. I said that the story you presented about the trails was a fairy tale, not that tests never happened, is this understandable?

beside this 99% of pakistani's want to cease relation with nato/usa.
we started wot for them and the after effects are clearly visible.

and if nato would have not wanted pakistan.pak might never be a major non nato ally

Your help in case of Afghanistan was non help at all. You didn't even protected our supplies convoys properly, not to mention pushing on Talibans from your side of the border harder.

But I understand this, we are infidels, and because of that, muslims do not want to cooperate with us, neither we should, but then again, as yourself, who have a better prospering life, we or you? I talk here about general population.

Beside this future lies in OIC and SCO
nato is now a past tense

Yeah, right, NATO is currently a completely military superiority, over anyone + NATO close allies. Not to mention about other matters.

 

[farhan_9909]

It seems you have problems with english. So I will explain. I said that the story you presented about the trails was a fairy tale, not that tests never happened, is this understandable?

you said in the past that the test never happened?

Your help in case of Afghanistan was non help at all. You didn't even protected our supplies convoys properly, not to mention pushing on Talibans from your side of the border harder.

Really?seems like you were sleeping when the american officialls were crying to open the route again as the supply cost was 5 times more..
we started operation against our own people because of USA.and now they are hell bent on killing us.
we should have learnt the lesson from the past that never trust USA/NATO.

But I understand this, we are infidels, and because of that, muslims do not want to cooperate with us, neither we should, but then again, as yourself, who have a better prospering life, we or you? I talk here about general population.

If by being richer you mean a better life than you
if being happy you mean a better life than us..

Yeah, right, NATO is currently a completely military superiority, over anyone + NATO close allies. Not to mention about other matters.

lol.what is your definition of military superiority?

every single day being kicked in ass by taliban despite the fact that they only have a ak47 while you have everything.
or yes if killing of unarmed innocent iraq's civilian is termed as success by you guys than we are happy with failure tag than such useless military superiority tag

 

[Damian]

you said in the past that the test never happened?

Really?seems like you were sleeping when the american officialls were crying to open the route again as the supply cost was 5 times more..
we started operation against our own people because of USA.and now they are hell bent on killing us.
we should have learnt the lesson from the past that never trust USA/NATO.

Oh, so as I understand, you say that your own citizens are more likely to support terrorists and prevent ISAF from rebuilding Afghanistan and helping these people to have normal lifes.

As I don't like how Indians call Pakistanis, I also do not like your methods of dealing with problems, by supporting madmans that believe that good life is a life of religious slave, that can't have a good life in normal way, of being free from any opression, be it religious or ideological.

If by being richer you mean a better life than you
if being happy you mean a better life than us..

We are richer, we are happy, we do not need to believe in one religion, we do not need to belive in any religion at all, we are free, we are responsible for our lifes on our own, and nobody will kill us in our countries for having different views... of course unless he is imigrant from some 3rd world country who is a relgious fanatic.

lol.what is your definition of military superiority?

The standard one.

every single day being kicked in ass by taliban despite the fact that they only have a ak47 while you have everything.
or yes if killing of unarmed innocent iraq's civilian is termed as success by you guys than we are happy with failure tag than such useless military superiority tag

How many of them die and how many of us? Not to mention that we are not performing there a total war. Yeah, this is what you muslims do not understand, you do not know what total war means, you know what total war means?

Ok I will put it this way, no rules, only total anihilation, Afghanistan or Pakistan would be depopulated in such case within several years, this is total war, where not a peace keeping and counterinsurgency forces are operating withint the laws and using civilised methods of war.

In such case your capital city would stop exist after several carpet bombings, you know how european cities looked after carped bombings? Of course not! You never experienced such kind of war, never.

This is also reason why you do not realize how warfare is really dangerous, this is why you are arrogant, this iw why in the end you try to have nuclear weapons, but in the same time you do not know how dangerous it is, not only for your neighbours but also for yourselfs.

You think what will happen if nuclear war will break loose in the region? That you will leave further happy and being a winner in a contest who have a bigger dick? No I will tell you what happen, you, your whole family, your whole nation or most of it will be dead, some will die in horrible pain for several days, weaks or months.

As far as I see, Muslims like to be cocky, with their slogans "we kill infidels, we kill them all for allach", but then again they get their asses kick and screems how bad infidels, jews or americans are killing them.

But as I said, you know shit about total war, and better hope that your allach will prevent us some day to get really pissed about your behavior, because we, infidels do not want a war, we know too good what it means, but if we will have a reason, we will not hestitate to perform a total war, and this means in a fact a damn genocide.

So better think twice before you say something.

 

[farhan_9909]

Oh, so as I understand, you say that your own citizens are more likely to support terrorists and prevent ISAF from rebuilding Afghanistan and helping these people to have normal lifes.

yes but they are less than 0.000000001% of population.again you should also know this that taliban actually were created by USA?
Normal lives?wtf.do you know what you guys have done in iraq?for the sake of WMD's.which never existed.you killed nearly 2millions innocent in iraq.
all the turmoil and bomb blasts in iraq started after american invasion

Or 9/11 was more probably a trick to introduce terrorism to this world.

As I don't like how Indians call Pakistanis, I also do not like your methods of dealing with problems, by supporting madmans that believe that good life is a life of religious slave, that can't have a good life in normal way, of being free from any opression, be it religious or ideological.

do you have any idea what we call indians?they want to us to believe that we and indians have a same origin.while we feel offended calling our selves indians.i wont go too far into this
you don't like our methods of dealing with problem is your problem not our..our interest is in to cease relation with usa and better have relation in europe with countries like german than some racist chaps countries

We are richer, we are happy, we do not need to believe in one religion, we do not need to belive in any religion at all, we are free, we are responsible for our lifes on our own, and nobody will kill us in our countries for having different views... of course unless he is imigrant from some 3rd world country who is a relgious fanatic.

as i said before richer doesnt mean happy as well.so do us..your allowed to be of any religion follower in pakistan..there jews,christians,hindu,buddhist and every kind of people in pakistan..your country is also regarded as 3rd world country my friend

The standard one.

by standard one you mean best in killing unarmed people?or by the standard you mean being defeated either in vietnam or in afghanistan?

How many of them die and how many of us? Not to mention that we are not performing there a total war. Yeah, this is what you muslims do not understand, you do not know what total war means, you know what total war means?

numbers undisclose.but surely you guys dies more..though since world media is on your side.your claims are more accepted

Ok I will put it this way, no rules, only total anihilation, Afghanistan or Pakistan would be depopulated in such case within several years, this is total war, where not a peace keeping and counterinsurgency forces are operating withint the laws and using civilised methods of war.

you just cant even get closer to North korea(already warned of being using nukes against you) and iran and you think you can destroy any country?
have you guys ever defeated any country in the past 1000years?

In such case your capital city would stop exist after several carpet bombings, you know how european cities looked after carped bombings? Of course not! You never experienced such kind of war, never.

so does your..wait few years more and let the kpc-3 ssbn gets ready..enough of you guys fake superiority

This is also reason why you do not realize how warfare is really dangerous, this is why you are arrogant, this iw why in the end you try to have nuclear weapons, but in the same time you do not know how dangerous it is, not only for your neighbours but also for yourselfs.

they are more dangerous to you than us.

You think what will happen if nuclear war will break loose in the region? That you will leave further happy and being a winner in a contest who have a bigger dick? No I will tell you what happen, you, your whole family, your whole nation or most of it will be dead, some will die in horrible pain for several days, weaks or months.

we know the consequences of nuclear war.if we can manufacture them we know the after war effects as well

As far as I see, Muslims like to be cocky, with their slogans "we kill infidels, we kill them all for allach", but then again they get their asses kick and screems how bad infidels, jews or americans are killing them.

wrong as usuall?seems like you only watch cnn and fox news?arent you?..those muslim calling for killing you guys doesnt make 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of total muslims population

But as I said, you know shit about total war, and better hope that your allach will prevent us some day to get really pissed about your behavior, because we, infidels do not want a war, we know too good what it means, but if we will have a reason, we will not hestitate to perform a total war, and this means in a fact a damn genocide.

So better think twice before you say something.

*I dont know abou ttanks
*i dont know about history
*i dont know about war
*my english is bad
and what not

your not able to accept the defeat you guys have got in afghanistan fighting against odd 20k taliban with more than 1lac troops already deployed and war expenses in trillions

you should accept your defeat and rather live in peace than killing muslims only(unarmed otherwise just 20k talibans are more than enough for the whole west in open fight)

 

[average american]

Really the Pakistan created the Taliban long befor the USA was involved.

The Pakistani leadership is caught in a trap of its own making. Since the 1970s, the local media has (often under government pressure) enthusiastically backed Islamic radicalism and hatred of infidels (non-Moslems, especially all those Indian Hindus). Efforts to make peace with India and the West are crippled by the large number of Pakistanis who still believe the decades of anti-infidel propaganda and cannot be quickly turned around.

 

[average american]

This could also be a major problem.

Inbreeding Within The Pakistan & Muslim Culture
Massive inbreeding within the Muslim culture during the last 1.400 years
may have done catastrophic damage to their gene pool. The consequences
of intermarriage between first cousins often have serious impact on the
intelligence, sanity, and health of their offspring, and on their
surroundings. But there is another fear, and that is that cousin-marriage is shielding an even more invidious practice: incest. Marriages arranged within a single family disposes of some of the external checks and inhibitions that may protect the younger generation from the unnatural affections of older males or, in a few instances, females in the same family. Unfortunately, the extent of this activity is shrouded in secrecy as Pakistani society's capacity for self-introspection continue to diminish for a variety of factors, some political, others religious.


LiveLeak.com - Inbreeding Within The Pakistan & Muslim Culture

LiveLeak.com - Islam and Inbreeding

 

[farhan_9909]

Really the Pakistan created the Taliban long befor the USA was involved.

The Pakistani leadership is caught in a trap of its own making. Since the 1970s, the local media has (often under government pressure) enthusiastically backed Islamic radicalism and hatred of infidels (non-Moslems, especially all those Indian Hindus). Efforts to make peace with India and the West are crippled by the large number of Pakistanis who still believe the decades of anti-infidel propaganda and cannot be quickly turned around.

you seem more of an blind patriotic american to me
will you please also support your statement of just pak alone created taliban?

we had no issues with USSR.i do admit that ISI was involved.but you must understand that we had no issue against USSR.it was all done along side with CIA because of USA.

 

[farhan_9909]

This could also be a major problem.

Inbreeding Within The Pakistan & Muslim Culture
Massive inbreeding within the Muslim culture during the last 1.400 years
may have done catastrophic damage to their gene pool. The consequences
of intermarriage between first cousins often have serious impact on the
intelligence, sanity, and health of their offspring, and on their
surroundings. But there is another fear, and that is that cousin-marriage is shielding an even more invidious practice: incest. Marriages arranged within a single family disposes of some of the external checks and inhibitions that may protect the younger generation from the unnatural affections of older males or, in a few instances, females in the same family. Unfortunately, the extent of this activity is shrouded in secrecy as Pakistani society's capacity for self-introspection continue to diminish for a variety of factors, some political, others religious.


LiveLeak.com - Inbreeding Within The Pakistan & Muslim Culture

LiveLeak.com - Islam and Inbreeding

now what has this to do with what we are discussing here?...this is our own problem not your
cousin marriage in Pakistanis common i do agree but what is your problem with this?
after getting strucked us in a never ending war.you want to interfere in our marriage issues as well?

you have posted this in some more than 5 threads in this forum alone

 

[average american]

you seem more of an blind patriotic american to me
will you please also support your statement of just pak alone created taliban?

we had no issues with USSR.i do admit that ISI was involved.but you must understand that we had no issue against USSR.it was all done along side with CIA because of USA.

Hog Wash, First you are trying to tell me Pakistan a rabid Islamic Country had no problem with atheist USSR takeing over an Islamic country next door. . That must make you all Israels best friend. We did give aid to Islamic Organizations largely through Pakistan to Islamic groups opposed to the USSR invasion of Afganstan, we did not create them.

 

[Damian]

yes but they are less than 0.000000001% of population.again you should also know this that taliban actually were created by USA?
Normal lives?wtf.do you know what you guys have done in iraq?for the sake of WMD's.which never existed.you killed nearly 2millions innocent in iraq.
all the turmoil and bomb blasts in iraq started after american invasion

Or 9/11 was more probably a trick to introduce terrorism to this world.

1) In previous post you say about 99% of population.
2)Taliban were not creation of USA. USA supported Mujahedeens, later after Soviet-Afghan war, Mujahedeen movement splited in to different factions like Northern Alliance that was pro western and anti Taliban, other bastard childs of Mujahedeen movement were Talibans and Al Kaida.
3) 9/11 a way to bring terrorism world wide? Alluminium hats on heads, 1,2,3 we start silly conspiration theories now!

do you have any idea what we call indians?they want to us to believe that we and indians have a same origin.while we feel offended calling our selves indians.i wont go too far into this
you don't like our methods of dealing with problem is your problem not our..our interest is in to cease relation with usa and better have relation in europe with countries like german than some racist chaps countries

Typical 3rd world argument, you loose discussion, call your adversary a rascists... meh.

as i said before richer doesnt mean happy as well.so do us..your allowed to be of any religion follower in pakistan..there jews,christians,hindu,buddhist and every kind of people in pakistan..your country is also regarded as 3rd world country my friend

Poland a 3rd world country?

We were considered as 2nd world in Cold War times, now we are in the 1st world classification.

As for religion, IMHO religion is for fools with weak minds that are easy to be manipulated by clever guys that claim to believe in gods or god.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index

Better read about human development index.

by standard one you mean best in killing unarmed people?or by the standard you mean being defeated either in vietnam or in afghanistan?

You are more and more ridiculous. I talk about the technology level, training level, quality and quantity of equipment.

Not to mention that you obviously do not understand what is going in Afghanistan right now, and what happend there and in Vietnam previously.

numbers undisclose.but surely you guys dies more..though since world media is on your side.your claims are more accepted

You see, in our countries, it is immposible to manipulate casualties numbers, familys would do so much fuzz about such things that no goverment would win elections. As for insurgents, I can assure you that they die like flies... which is typical for mostly poorly educated peasants that don't even know how to operate firearms properly.

you just cant even get closer to North korea(already warned of being using nukes against you) and iran and you think you can destroy any country?
have you guys ever defeated any country in the past 1000years?

You see, this is the difference between civilisation and primitives, you consider that victory is only be destroying someone. Our goals ae different, for example Afghanistan, the goal is to rebuild country, free nation, gave them prosperity and defeat bunch of primitives who believes in some divine creature they call god.

so does your..wait few years more and let the kpc-3 ssbn gets ready..enough of you guys fake superiority

This starts to be funny.

they are more dangerous to you than us.

Yeah, this is probably Allah will make you immune to radiation... hmmm I have a joke about cockroaches but this would sound rascist. ;D

we know the consequences of nuclear war.if we can manufacture them we know the after war effects as well

No, you do not know, Muslims do not have any problems with suicide bombings, why they should with creating a nuclear holocaust?

wrong as usuall?seems like you only watch cnn and fox news?arent you?..those muslim calling for killing you guys doesnt make 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000001% of total muslims population

Nope, I actually do not watch TV at all. As for Muslims, there are different muslims, I talk about Muslims from middle east and Africa, that have sociopatic tendencies, not about Muslims that live for centuries in our region, you know about Tatars? They are peacfully leavy in my country, they are neither religious fanatics, neither they like to make problems to us, and everything is ok. Compare this to imigrants from pakistan, Middle East or African in western europe.

*I dont know abou ttanks
*i dont know about history
*i dont know about war
*my english is bad
and what not

your not able to accept the defeat you guys have got in afghanistan fighting against odd 20k taliban with more than 1lac troops already deployed and war expenses in trillions

you should accept your defeat and rather live in peace than killing muslims only(unarmed otherwise just 20k talibans are more than enough for the whole west in open fight)

Our goal is to help Afghans, not to kill people, unfortunetely some idiots that believe that the only god is Allah seems to be very happy killing both citizens of Afghanistan and NATO troops... in fact what is somewhat funny, these Muslim "freedom fighters" tends to kill more civilians than foreing troops, this is how brave they are, when easier is to kill civilians on bazaar than foreing troops.

 

[average american]

now what has this to do with what we are discussing here?...this is our own problem not your
cousin marriage in Pakistanis common i do agree but what is your problem with this?
after getting strucked us in a never ending war.you want to interfere in our marriage issues as well?

you have posted this in some more than 5 threads in this forum alone

It seems you all have other major problems then just your religion that result in violence and terrorism.

 

[farhan_9909]

Hog Wash, First you are trying to tell me Pakistan a rabid Islamic Country had no problem with atheist USSR takeing over an Islamic country next door. . That must make you all Israels best friend. We did give aid to Islamic Organizations largely through Pakistan to Islamic groups opposed to the USSR invasion of Afganstan, we did not create them.

lol seems like your a victim of western propaganga

anyway your past alongside the same taliban you are about to be defeated badly by them

http://serbianna.com/blogs/savich/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/hekmatyar_richard_kerr1.jpg

Google Image Result for http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/425126_498712806810325_212210040_n.jpg

 

[farhan_9909]

we should better leave this thread limited to atlay discussion

i really don't like to reply to such huge posts
when i am ill

 

[W.G.Ewald]

we should better leave this thread limited to atlay discussion

Thread went off the rails some time back. :-(

i really don't like to reply to such huge posts
when i am ill

Some DFI threads almost make me sick, too. :-D

 

[Black Blood]

Mobility test: Failed as the M1A1 entered a pond in S.Punjab testing range and failed to get out, it had to be pulled back by another tank. Then it fell into another water catchment area and failed to get out, as the soil in S.Punjab becomes thick form of clay when wet and it sticks as the mineral soil density is very high. It is the same problem the Nazi tanks faced when invading Stalingrad.

Desert Trails: Failed as M1A1s engines were sucking up the "fine thin grained" sand in S.Pujnab and Sindh desert, the sand seeped into the engine inlets, guns and other equipment leading to obstructions and undesirable performance. Punjab and sindh gets temps of up to 50 degrees and the M1A1s didn't take that very well.

M1A1 is a brilliant piece of engineering, however not suitable for our terrain, which is why it was refused. Gen Zia ul haq died in a plane crash after returning from the tests in Bahawalpur range himself.

 

[Damian]

Mobility test: Failed as the M1A1 entered a pond in S.Punjab testing range and failed to get out, it had to be pulled back by another tank. Then it fell into another water catchment area and failed to get out, as the soil in S.Punjab becomes thick form of clay when wet and it sticks as the mineral soil density is very high. It is the same problem the Nazi tanks faced when invading Stalingrad.

Such situation is a fail of driver and TC not a tank, any tank would stuck in such situation, not matters if it weights 30 or 60 tons.

Not to mention that you just place here completely unrealistic requirement, do you know how terrain in Europe looks like? I seen a T-80's and T-90's that sank in deep mud, as well as Leopard 2's, M1's and other tanks. If we would have such requirements as you present here, we would reject any possible design!

Desert Trails: Failed as M1A1s engines were sucking up the "fine thin grained" sand in S.Pujnab and Sindh desert, the sand seeped into the engine inlets, guns and other equipment leading to obstructions and undesirable performance.

M1A1's without any modifications performed well in Saudi Arabian, Iraqi and Kuwaiti deserts, even during sand storms. US Army noted incredible in such conditions readiness of 90%.

On the other hand again, it might be just a shity technical culture and lack of any maintnance from Pakistani soldiers that tested a tank. It is convieniant to blame a tank instead of poorly trained soldiers eh?

M1A1 is a brilliant piece of engineering, however not suitable for our terrain, which is why it was refused. Gen Zia ul haq died in a plane crash after returning from the tests in Bahawalpur range himself.

There is nos such thing as suitable or not suitable for specific terrain. MBT's are designed as universal, to operate in different types of terrain. M1 tanks before being fileded by US Army needed to pass difficult tests in arctic and desert conditions, many other tanks also.

I do not care then about some general or cheesy excuses, to me your answers looks simple... completely unrealistic requirements that none design could meet.

It is actually very popular scheme, I seen few years ago the same unrealistic requirements in Peru when they trailed some tanks, also complete fantasy about firepower, protection and mobility.

 

[farhan_9909]

Now just recently after searching on the forum

i got the post where damian has said M1a1 was never tested by Pakistan

i can only post the thread link if damian says so..if he's not offended of being not a man of his words

 

[farhan_9909]

Thread went off the rails some time back. :-(



Some DFI threads almost make me sick, too. :-D

well i had no intention of derailing the thread..but don't know how it happend