Al-Khalid MBT And Pakistani Armour

[NAMICA]

Yes, they do but they have their limits. For example,
1. Any system can be overwhelmed, eventually, if the enemy throws enough numbers of ATGWs at your way.

2. What if the sensor gets damaged by artillery fire or some other means??

There are some other issues but that's for another time.



Exactly. Personally, I would not want to send in an armored unit into an enemy-occupied heavily built-up area but sometimes, there is no choice and if your AFVs are not adequately protected, you'll have the devil to pay, metaphorically speaking.

You're on the right track. That was indeed my reasoning as well.

Yeah, even though I would still prefer a heavier AFV even in those theaters but I believe we can get away with a lighter less protected vehicle just fine in such open terrain conditions.

It appears that the army has decided to take the one-size-fits-all approach when it comes to selecting its next IFV but I'm not at all sure if that's the practical option given the uniqueness of our predicament. I think two different versions of IFVs should be designed along with an MBT, an ARV, an AEV and an urban tank support vehicle using the same basic hull design to ensure maximum commonality among them.

Two IFV can be the lighter one based on abhay and heavier one based on NGMBT.
Regarding AEV and ARV it can be made by converting IFV. In fact such versions of BMP already exists.

 

[NAMICA]

But, will the army accept it?? After witnessing the whole clusterfuck of a shitshow that's the ATAGS saga, I don't think we have got much to hope for in that regard.

So true dalals are deeply rooted in our system plus never ending saga of trials.

 

[Swiftfarts]

Public private collab.

If they are going to produce tin can than sorry.

I think I get your point......kinda but why should we wait for the future in order to induct something beefier such as T-15 or Namer?? Why shouldn't it be done from the get-go??

Weight, logistics, money, Russia probably won't sell such top of the line product in first place and even if they do allow and we have money ... do we really need it ?

 

[NAMICA]

If they are going to produce tin can than sorry.

Weight, logistics, money, Russia probably won't sell such top of the line product in first place and even if they do allow and we have money ... do we really need it ?

Which tin can are u talking about.

 

[Killbot]

Umm...I don't know, how about not wanting to be overwhelmed by scores of beef roast memes in case things go tits up in the future?? Sounds fair now??

Anything above STANAG 6, you have a tank that can't carry enough people and/or with really bad mobility... Soft kill and Hard kill APS should do the job imo. It doesn't need to be as well protected as a tank, right?

Edit: Or put a more powerful engine..

 

[ArgonPrime]

If they are going to produce tin can than sorry.

Let's just hope that they have taken the right lessons from the MBT Arjun, Tank-Ex, and Abhay IFV programs.

Weight, logistics, money,

If Israel can afford those, then we could too even if in limited numbers say 500-600 for the Punjab and Jammu sectors which are very heavily built-up population centers.

Russia probably won't sell such top of the line product in first place

I believe our agencies have got all the building blocks necessary to design and build such a line of AFVs on their own given there is intent. Can't rely on others forever, can we now??

and even if they do allow and we have money ... do we really need it ?

Yes, if the army actually wants to implement its proactive cold start doctrine successfully while incurring minimal losses that is.

 

[ArgonPrime]

Anything above STANAG 6, you have a tank that can't carry enough people and/or with really bad mobility... Soft kill and Hard kill APS should do the job imo. It doesn't need to be as well protected as a tank, right?

Not true, not anymore. Just take a look at the Namer, that thing is hella fast and can carry a stick of 9 dismounts. The same's true for the T-15 Armata IFV, heck it's even faster and has room for 9 dismounts as well. And now compare that to our BMP-IIs, those literal tin cans can only carry a stick of 7.

 

[Killbot]

Not true, not anymore. Just take a look at the Namer, that thing is hella fast and can carry a stick of 9 dismounts. The same's true for the T-15 Armata IFV, heck it's even faster and has room for 9 dismounts as well.

Edited the post.

 

[ArgonPrime]

Edited the post.

Sorry, replied too fast.

 

[ArgonPrime]

Which tin can are u talking about.

I think he was talking about Arjun. Now, while I do not completely agree with that statement, it is true that this tank, in its present iteration has just too many weak spots and drawbacks which are bound to reduce its effectiveness.

 

[NAMICA]

I think he was talking about Arjun. Now, while I do not completely agree with that statement, it is true that this tank, in its present iteration has just too many weak spots and drawbacks which are bound to reduce its effectiveness.

Arjun is not a public private partnership.

 

[Swiftfarts]

Which tin can are u talking about.

DRDO WHap. Army is already looking for foreign option for obvious reasons.

Let's just hope that they have taken the right lessons from the MBT Arjun, Tank-Ex, and Abhay IFV programs.

It's just K 2 inspired Korean MBT nothing else from turret at least. another failure in making.

.If Israel can afford those, then we could too even if in limited numbers say 500-600 for the Punjab and Jammu sectors which are very heavily built-up population centers.

Heavy IFV is not suitable for Punjab. It's a river country.
a simple flooding will create Swampy condition and make heavy IFV , tank effective maneuvering almost impossible. as for heavily build up cities , it will be the last target. i will go for a siege and starving option rather than go all at once. For Rajasthan sector i am all for it.

. I believe our agencies have got all the building blocks necessary to design and build such a line of AFVs on their own given there is intent. Can't rely on others forever, can we now??

I doubt that fully.

 

[Swiftfarts]

What's the best APFSDS round paki use ? @Bleh @ArgonPrime @shuvo@y2k10

 

[WolfPack86]

Pakistan army Talha apc and M113 apc.

 

[ArgonPrime]

DRDO WHap. Army is already looking for foreign option for obvious reasons.

For the role of an air-transportable LAV platform, WHAP is sufficient but nothing else.

It's just K 2 inspired Korean MBT nothing else from turret at least. another failure in making.

We don't know that yet.

Heavy IFV is not suitable for Punjab. It's a river country.
a simple flooding will create Swampy condition and make heavy IFV , tank effective maneuvering almost impossible.

By that logic, no IFVs, tracked or otherwise, can be used effectively in that sector. Because if we are to take the flooding into account, then even a BTR or a BMP-II will get stuck!!

as for heavily build up cities , it will be the last target.i will go for a siege and starving option rather than go all at once.

But the army has been gearing up for short duration high-intensity fast-paced maneuver warfare for over one and a half-decade (remember Cold Star and IBGs?) now because a short engagement is all we can hope for under a nuclear overhang. So I don't believe we'll have enough time to impose sieges on their population centers. In other words, not a very plausible scenario.

For Rajasthan sector i am all for it.

Of course. But Rajasthan being an open desert we can probably get away with a STANAG VI level IFV without too much problem but personally, I would rather be in a heavier vehicle regardless of the theatre of operation.

I doubt that fully.

I said they had all the building blocks ready, but I didn't say they can put them together in a competent fashion. For that, we'd have to wait and watch.

 

[ArgonPrime]

What's the best APFSDS round paki use ? @Bleh @ArgonPrime @shuvo@y2k10

Frankly, I'm not so sure. Is it the Naiza?? Also, they may have received that Chinese APFSDS-T rounds with DOP of ~220mm at 66.4 degrees with their new VT-4s, who knows??

 

[Mikesingh]

T 15 armata ,Namer APC is the way to go in future if you want to give crew survivability importance.
Indian army requirement are fully meet by IFV like kurganets 25

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weigh and everything else is in acceptable range.

A good combo would be the T-15 Armata APC and the T-14 Armata tank operating together in mech formations in the IA. The T-15 APC which carries 9+3 is the best in the world, but at > Rs 25 crores a pop it would make a huge hole in the budget. However, this combo could be used as part of select IBGs.

 

[ArgonPrime]

A good combo would be the T-15 Armata APC and the T-14 Armata tank operating together in mech formations in the IA. The T-15 APC which carries 9+3 is the best in the world, but at > Rs 25 crores a pop it would make a huge hole in the budget. However, this combo could be used as part of select IBGs.

Yeah, we wouldn't need 1000s of such IFVs, 600-700 of those should suffice and the rest can be made up of lighter cheaper vehicles. The more economical option, in my opinion, would be to build one ourselves based on modified Arjun hulls with an RC turret featuring a belt-fed version of the Bofors L/70, a coaxial GPMG, and a couple of ATGM launchers, perhaps add an RC HMG cupola on the top of the turret as well if enough room is available.

 

[Swiftfarts]

A good combo would be the T-15 Armata APC and the T-14 Armata tank operating together in mech formations in the IA. The T-15 APC which carries 9+3 is the best in the world, but at > Rs 25 crores a pop it would make a huge hole in the budget. However, this combo could be used as part of select IBGs.

New US ABCT model can help, IBG are similar i think.
Armata type configuration or tank itself is the best option if cost is kept low. Will russia sell is a different matter all together. only big production run can bring down cost, i wonder if even Russians can afford it in large numbers. But do we really need it now or in future ? If we upgrade T 90 to M level it's more than enough to deal with most threat we face.

 

[NAMICA]

New US ABCT model can help,IB are similar i think.
Armata type configuration or tank itself is the best option if cost is kept low. Will russia sell is a different matter all together. only big production run can bring down cost, i wonder if even Russians can afford it in large numbers. But do we really need it now or in future ? If we upgrade T 90 to M level it's more than enough to deal with most threat we face.

Best option is to upgrade T90 and NGMBT.