AK-203 Scrap

[Angel of War]

only if Army is willing to induct ATAGS.

Army has no choice. They can't import 155/52 Cal artillery , now they will be forced to buy ATAGS under any circumstances

And we seriously lack SP Artillery. PLA has them and Pakistanis have also inducted them in large numbers.

Ground-based radars like Swathi will easily locate the location of these batteries and their positions will be vulnerable to enemy arty as well. And this is where SP artillery come in play. It will allow them to "shoot-and-scoot" thereby avoiding counter-battery fire.

If the order for 200 Vajras gets finalised , I'll be dancing head over heels. But to be honest , you don't need SP artillery for the holding corps except for the RAPID divisions in some holding corps . The realistic requirement is 17 SP regiments ( all 3 regiments of divisional arty brigade of the three Armoured divisions should be Self Propelled for a total of 3*3= 9 SP regiments and each RAPID should have one SP regiment in div arty brigade to support the armoured brigade in the division . This is for a total of 8 RAPIDs , so 1*8=8. The total being 9+8=17 regiments )

I think that our towed batteries will be destroyed by PLA easily in case of conflict.

Not quite easy , performance of Counter battery radars is severly degraded in hilly terrain , also , Gun positions are carefully examined and usually dug in on reverse slope of a hill , this protects it from enemy counter battery fire .

It will be interesting to see what Army is thinking about this. I just hope that they don't make a mess just like they did in the rifles.

I've got a feeling they won't . But your concerns are legit .

but in Signal core there is a lot of work to do.
We don't have a dedicated cyber warfare unit.

Actually that's not what Corps of signals is meant to do . They are responsible for providing networked communications , ESM and ECM capabilities. One system called the samyukta essentially is very effective in ESM and ECM profiles. Networked communications has got a massive boost with the implementation of ASCON phase IV.

You know what happend in 2019 Indo-Pak showdown and in 2020 Galwan.
We are heavily dependent on Israel for ELINT and SIGINT equipments. Almost every equipment is imported from Israel.
We don't have a robust ISTAR systems and communications.

ISTAR is getting a boost , although it's again not in the mission profile of corps of signals but rather the air force https://www.livefistdefence.com/indias-3-billion-istar-takes-shape-mod-clearance-this-year/

Alot needs to be done by Army, DRDO and MoD for the signal corp if we really want to dominate China.

It's a long way to go , but steps are being taken .

 

[vampyrbladez]

Things like these will have to be wargamed in practice to check if the work or not, could be one of the options.

Please ponder upon the current squad strength on paper.

6 x INSAS

1 x Bren LMG Team (Gunner + Asst.)

1 x RCL / Missileer

1 x Ammunition Carrier

Please tell me if this can survive a few teams like this :

See the problem?

 

[Dark Sorrow]

As far as I know, we needed AK-203 TOT mainly because of Metallurgy.

Metal for barrel was going to be bought directly from Russia. It wasn't to be made in India.

And no, I don't think so that this was a decision to only please Putin as far as I am concerned. Our army is in need of Such a rifle, INSAS has proven to be a Failure.

INSAS did had problem during Kargil but most these problems are resolved. The problems faced now are due to quality issue of OFB. AK-203 won't solve this quality control issue of OFB. INSAS is a very good rifle when it comes to engaging PA.
AK-203 deals reeks of either pleasing Putin or the import lobby.

It's a must for our Front line troops who are stationed on the Indo-Pak and Sino-Indian Border. Like I said, AK-203 is probably the last AR which we will be buying after which we will have enough TOT to become self reliant in this sector.

AK-203 will not be effective against PLA compared to Sig716 (with right ammunition).
Don't underestimate import lobby. They will repackage Indian product and show it as imported item it just to make extra buck.

 

[Super Flanker]

Name another modern military (not saying that IA is that) with active threats that uses 7.62*39 for their standard issue battle rifle? 7.62*39 is a terrible round for anything other than COIN, making it the backbone of the IA basically relegates the IA as a COIN force, how are they going to fight long range battles in the mountains against the PLA with modern small arms? They are at risk of even being outgunned by the Pakis that are inducting more modern small arms

You are giving to much emphasis and importance to an Assault Rifle's usage. You should know that in today's Modern day warfare, most kills are not done with rifles but with artillery, grenades, RPGs, antitank munitions, etc.

AK-203 has an Effective firing range400–800 m (440–870 yd) (based on sight adjustments)

On the other hand the SiG-716 is said to have a maximum Firing Range of only 600 meters. So please now tell me which rifle here has the maximum range? Yes the AK-203. Agreed that the SIG-716 has better accuracy, and is more lethal at those Ranges but the AK-203 is pretty decent if you use the right attachments for long range.

Big Boost To Indian Army! Troops Get Latest SiG Sauer Rifles, ATV On China Border

The Indian Army has finally got rid of the INSAS rifles which have been replaced by Sig Sauer 716 assault rifles.

news.abplive.com

Army uses 'jugaad' to turn the American SiG 716 into a mean rifle for soldiers at LoC

The SiG 716 rifles lacked certain add-ons when first handed to soldiers at LoC in Dec 2019. However, minor tweaks to equip it with night sight, better grip & more cost-effective ammunition has made it formidable.

theprint.in

Now will someone please close this thread.

 

[Marliii]

You are giving to much emphasis and importance to an Assault Rifle's usage. You should know that in today's Modern day warfare, most kills are not done with rifles but with artillery, grenades, RPGs, antitank munitions, etc.

AK-203 has an Effective firing range400–800 m (440–870 yd) (based on sight adjustments)

On the other hand the SiG-716 is said to have a maximum Firing Range of only 600 meters. So please now tell me which rifle here has the maximum range? Yes the AK-203. Agreed that the SIG-716 has better accuracy, and is more lethal at those Ranges but the AK-203 is pretty decent if you use the right attachments for long range.

Big Boost To Indian Army! Troops Get Latest SiG Sauer Rifles, ATV On China Border

The Indian Army has finally got rid of the INSAS rifles which have been replaced by Sig Sauer 716 assault rifles.

news.abplive.com

Army uses 'jugaad' to turn the American SiG 716 into a mean rifle for soldiers at LoC

The SiG 716 rifles lacked certain add-ons when first handed to soldiers at LoC in Dec 2019. However, minor tweaks to equip it with night sight, better grip & more cost-effective ammunition has made it formidable.

theprint.in

Now will someone please close this thread.

You dont know a lot of firearms dont you?

 

[Super Flanker]

You dont know a lot of firearms dont you?

Yes I don't know much about firearms and agreed I am not some kind of expert but all I know is one thing which is that this thread needs to closed right now!

@mods @ezsasa @hit&run @Indx TechStyle close this thread. I have had enough.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

You are giving to much emphasis and importance to an Assault Rifle's usage. You should know that in today's Modern day warfare, most kills are not done with rifles but with artillery, grenades, RPGs, antitank munitions, etc.

AK-203 has an Effective firing range400–800 m (440–870 yd) (based on sight adjustments)

On the other hand the SiG-716 is said to have a maximum Firing Range of only 600 meters. So please now tell me which rifle here has the maximum range? Yes the AK-203. Agreed that the SIG-716 has better accuracy, and is more lethal at those Ranges but the AK-203 is pretty decent if you use the right attachments for long range.

Big Boost To Indian Army! Troops Get Latest SiG Sauer Rifles, ATV On China Border

The Indian Army has finally got rid of the INSAS rifles which have been replaced by Sig Sauer 716 assault rifles.

news.abplive.com

Army uses 'jugaad' to turn the American SiG 716 into a mean rifle for soldiers at LoC

The SiG 716 rifles lacked certain add-ons when first handed to soldiers at LoC in Dec 2019. However, minor tweaks to equip it with night sight, better grip & more cost-effective ammunition has made it formidable.

theprint.in

Now will someone please close this thread.

800m is the Sighting range for AK-203 and not the effective firing range.

 

[Super Flanker]

Metal for barrel was going to be bought directly from Russia. It wasn't to be made in India.

If you have any source to confirm that the metal for the barrel would be Imported from Russia than kindly share it here with us please. And besides, even if it is true, you need to keep in mind that AK-203 will be produced in India under a joint venture between Russia's Kalashnikov Concern (42%), Rosoboronexport (7.5%) and India's Ordnance Factory Board (50.5%). So Both Russia and India will be Contributing parts for the production of the rifles. Also there some Articles pointing out that in the future, both Russia and India could potentially Export AK-203s to 3rd party Countries.

INSAS did had problem during Kargil but most these problems are resolved. The problems faced now are due to quality issue of OFB. AK-203 won't solve this quality control issue of OFB. INSAS is a very good rifle when it comes to engaging PA.
AK-203 deals reeks of either pleasing Putin or the import lobby.

Most of the problems are resolved with regards to INSAS? I never knew this but regardless of that, INSAS is not as good as AK-203 in terms of performance.

Effective firing range of INSAS :-
1.400m (Insas Rifle)
2.600 m: Point targets (Insas LMG)
3.700 m: Area target (Insas LMG)

Compare that to AK-203 which has an Effective firing range of : 400–800 m (440–870 yd) (based on sight adjustments)

At this point I would say that even SIG-716 is far better than INSAS. Please don't compare INSAS with a rifle like AK-203.

And no, I don't Deny that the Ak-203 has an intention to please Putin.

AK-203 will not be effective against PLA compared to Sig716 (with right ammunition).
Don't underestimate import lobby. They will repackage Indian product and show it as imported item it just to make extra buck.

This I agree but AK-203 is better than INSAS. SiG-716 is better than AK-203. Now please stop :-

 

[Super Flanker]

800m is the Sighting range for AK-203 and not the effective firing range.

No. 800 is the maximum Firing Range of AK-203. This I got From Wikipedia. You can check for yourself.

 

[Super Flanker]

@Dark Sorrow please list the per unit cost of SiG-716 and AK-203. Thank you in advance.

 

[Love Charger]

No IA officer of the last 50 years has fought a conventional war

maybe a good a$$ whooping will wake these clowns up

Did they wake up after kargil sir ?
Lch kahan hai ?
New arty systems , mgs ones , kahan hai ?
Deficiency of insas was found right during kargil war .
I hate to say this but Pakistanis arm their men way better than we do, less said about China the better

 

[Love Charger]

No. 800 is the maximum Firing Range of AK-203. This I got From Wikipedia. You can check for yourself.

Abe bhai, you BLOODY CANNOT fire till 800 mm from a any rifle without a scope .
Naked eyes can't see beyond 300 to 400 metres i guess , uske baad spray and pray

 

[Love Charger]

army is getting 7.62*39mm because they themselves don't know what to buy . The main focus continues to be maintaining a detterence posture and that's what our pattern of deployment suggests . But they don't know what weapon they want to fight with. Replacing the SLR in the first place was a mistake . They could have redesigned it and modified it as @Love Charger has suggested

Dekhna 10 saal ke Baad ye log fir se 6.8 ki rifle lenge, america ko copy karna hai

 

[India Super Power]

Did they wake up after kargil sir ?
Lch kahan hai ?
New arty systems , mgs ones , kahan hai ?
Deficiency of insas was found right during kargil war .
I hate to say this but Pakistanis arm their men way better than we do, less said about China the better

Why should we hate to say the truth
Pakis are far better than us in procurement
Tell me one place where they are not trying to match us with their fucked economy
Imagine if they had Indian economy I bet they would have been the best force in the world
Our superiority complex is literally gonna kill us one day

 

[Love Charger]

Why should we hate to say the truth
Pakis are far better than us in procurement
Tell me one place where they are not trying to match us with their fucked economy
Imagine if they had Indian economy I bet they would have been the best force in the world
Our superiority complex is literally gonna kill us one day

Its not in our blood, Pakistanis know benefit of austerity.
They induct weapons with the purpose to induct , not to earn money as the case was during Congress era .

 

[India Super Power]

Its not in our blood, Pakistanis know benefit of austerity.
They induct weapons with the purpose to induct , not to earn money as the case was during Congress era .

I see no change in nda era too
Problem is with armed forces and that's it

 

[Super Flanker]

Abe bhai, you BLOODY CANNOT fire till 800 mm from a any rifle without a scope .
Naked eyes can't see beyond 300 to 400 metres i guess , uske baad spray and pray

The same can be said about SiG-716 right? It's the same thing for any gun, to fire at its maximum range, you need to have a good scope.

For long range fights, we should use sniper rifles right? Recently Indian army had inducted the Sako . 338 TRG-42 sniper rifles from Finland for troops deployed along the Line of Control (LoC) in Jammu and Kashmir. We have a good variety of snipers.
-:-

Its not in our blood, Pakistanis know benefit of austerity.
They induct weapons with the purpose to induct , not to earn money as the case was during Congress era .

That is because the arms purchases made by Pakistan has no government involvement in it, it's all done by the Army, Pakistan doesn't even have a government in a sense, it is ruled by the PA. Here in India, it is not the case. "Babus''

 

[India Super Power]

The same can be said about SiG-716 right? It's the same thing for any gun, to fire at its maximum range, you need to have a good scope.

For long range fights, we should sniper rifles right? Recently Indian army had inducted the Sako . 338 TRG-42 sniper rifles from Finland for troops deployed along the Line of Control (LoC) in Jammu and Kashmir. We have a good variety of snipers.
-:-

That is because the arms purchases made by Pakistan has no government involvement in it, it's all done by the Army, Pakistan doesn't even have a government in a sense, it is ruled by the PA. Here in India, it is not the case. "Babus''

Buddy u r comparing 39 and 51 calibre bullets u should know the firepower difference and with bare eyes 51 calibre bullets provide more range then 39 calibre
That's science
Sorry to say are u seriously comparing a rifle with snipers
U seriously need to read a lot
Don't take it wrongly

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

No. 800 is the maximum Firing Range of AK-203. This I got From Wikipedia. You can check for yourself.

breh lol.

800 m is the max range on the sight leaf. Not the max practical range.

Practical range is 300-400 without optics, and 400-500 with good optics.

As an example, for Kar 98 K, the markings on the sight leaf extend to 2000 m. Which rifleman, do you think, is making 2000 m shots using iron sights?

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Abe bhai, you BLOODY CANNOT fire till 800 mm from a any rifle without a scope .
Naked eyes can't see beyond 300 to 400 metres i guess , uske baad spray and pray

With extremely good sights on an extremely good rifle, max possible is 600m. But not with AK style sights, and not on an assault rifle. For that yeah, 300-400 is max.