ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[johnj]

tejas already tested r73, r77, derby er, python 5, astra 1, even recently ASRAAM also (although some r saying it can be our NG CCM bvr missile)...dont know how many BVR testing satisfied u

Testing and equipping are two different things
I dont need infinite test but orders

tejas mark 1 is better than jf17 mark 1 nd 2...nd tejas mark 1a will be comapirable to jf17 block 3. so airforce main aim was to replace mig 21 nd tejas mark 1 nd 1a can do it far better. it is suitable for our CAP missions. so yeah it is success, coz it fill its primary role.

mki already started replacing mig21
sorry to tell you, iaf lca mainly used for bombing mission currently

FYI:- yes jf17 can carry hypersonic ballistic missiles. soon our tejas can also do it, with israeli rampage missile test. beside this it already tested SAAW, JDAM, spice nd hammer missiles/bombs.
so it already full operational with all those missiles. these all missiles r equal/more than pakistani jf17 can carry. nd there r many upcoming missiles like astra2, astra3, rudram series, brahmos ng etc will going to add in its firearm. so its future more bright than pakistani jf 17..

tests, tests, ..........................................................................................................................................
where is the order ?

why we r making tejas mark 2?? coz tejas mark 1 nd 1a can only replace mig 21 nd jaguar. it can perform CAP missions as third line aircraft in our airspace. we need more advance fighter which can play second line aircraft role for CAS missions. i mean it can help su 30 mki near border. nd with that it can also help front runner fighters like rafale or mirage 2000. so we needed a single engine fighter, who hv less maintenance nd less flying cost than twin engine fighters like rafale nd su 30 mki. nd it will be support front line nd second line fighters near nd cross border. so it calling stepping up our capabilities.

lol, there is no lca mk1a or further order for lca when goi started lca mk2
stop writing rubbish

now chinese r different opponent. increase our defense budget near 250 billion dollar, than i will tell u how to counter chinese. otherwise any addition of fighter (any genration) is adding plus mark for our airforce against china. thats what u do with powerful enemy. add any significant help against strong one.

Point noted
lets hope Chinese increase defense budget to 500~700 billion dollar if it help lca order

Why only 20foc when every one knows lca is better than jf17 ?? What is the benefit of ej200 over f404 ??
IAF want 200mmrca, hence they ditched lca. and demand more powerful engine
Foc comes with pythons 5, derby, i derby er, -- all weapons from israel - missiles, bombs, ew suite etc but iaf only shown interest in mmrca, once mmrca & fgfa collasped, iaf had no choice but to reconsider lca

Till date IAF placed zero order for python 5, i derby er, and asraam,
Only good news is IAF placed order for astra bvr - but hal yet to deliver stimulator
IAF received 150 jdam er 100km + fpr lca, and both hsld bomb & lgb already a part of tejas squadron.
Mki and lca partially replaced jaguar roles. here i am not talking about future but past and current

Future- its doesnt matter when lca mk2 flies , lca mk2 enter mass production before 2035, may be in 2032 if nda remains in power. and only thing iaf have do is to place the order - asraam, spice, griffin kit for hsld bomb; hammer, nag, alcm. saaw

 

[Satish Sharma]

Spice & SAAW & Tactical Advanced Range Augmentation (tara) & AL TARIQ-LR
ot a part of iaf lca yet, may in future
LOL, Also its not JDAM, but JDAM ER
DRDO Glide Bombs -ther zero info about DRDO Glide Bombs in IAF arsenal

LOL,
Sudarshan is rejected
Griffin is a offer - zero interest from iaf, its a modification kit, not a bomb
No Cluster bomb for lca so far
IAF not using russian pgm in lca

lol,
In two - DUMB BOMB

Except Hammer, no other missile tested

Non tested - becz not a requirements

Yet - im not talking avout yet or certain or future but current status = REALITY

WE = ?? i never said anything about fucture, means there is no WE but only just YOU
Hence im neglecting this para

LOL - seriously, engine need more frequent maintenance than other parts
Again I'm neglecting
FYI - we import rd33, and old rd33 having reliability issue, similar to mki engine, and very common with russian engines

Good for them, now they can setpup mro facilities, wait pak lack money to buy fuels for jf17, very good for them, now they can keep jf17 on ground most of the time

Ask me later

matter of time - at last one thing to agree
LOL, PAF already having bk3 jf17 pl15 is past
What ever i wrote is past things -

LOL
No one need PhD to talk about truth or past, but basic knowledge, info or data is enough
yes lca only having ''5 weapons'' its so bad - iaf even considered gripen - and rejected further order
Only thanks to Manohar Parrikar, HAL with the help of Israel, development lca mk1a - give a new life for lca, with out him, lca remains in icu or rip
ORDER FROM IAF - 83+97 - LCA MK1A [under development in HAL]
UPA[GOI] forced IAF to buy - 20 ioc & 20 foc
Currently iaf having 16 foc lacks
Precision-guided munition
Spice
Joint Direct Attack Munition ,jdam
DRDO Glide Bombs
DRDO SAAW
Tactical Advanced Range Augmentation (tara)
AL TARIQ-LR
Laser-guided bomb:
KAB-1500L
Sudarshan
Griffin LGBC
Cluster bomb:
RBK-500
Kh-59ME,
brahmos NG will be there soon.
Anti-ship missile:
Kh-35
Kh-59MK
astra mk2 etc
+ asraam, derby er, python 5
Do you known why - becz IAF facing lots of issue with lca maintenance but engine maintenance not one of them
FYI- improvement of maintenance is a part of lca foc & mk1a - excluding engine part

Funny thing you are not praising about lca, insisted boasting/advertising about US engine
MTOW, maintenance only focused wrt US engine + uncertain future

LCA tejas designed considering future unlike jf17 which is designed to meet paf current need - but failed/faced problems to develop critical tech like engine, radar, spj[advanced ew suite]. and weapons
For past 2 decade only two important thing to boast about LCA are CFC and FBW FCS

Dude pl15 is in service with few block 3s . It is not in use with all rest of aircraft. They will have to upgrade the radar to integrate with those 150 block 1s&2s produced.. you straight away considering that as integrated on whole fleet. Then why can't I consider again. You are considering weapons which are not even integrated on whole fleet of paf.

I was talking for upcoming weapons then comparing it. With weapons package of jf17

Currently jf17 is ahead, mk1a is not even in service...
That weapon package I said is better compared to jf17s.. like upcoming astra mk2 &mk3 ,rudrametc who TF was talking about what is the current status of lca..
You can keep demeaning others by comparing current status of both, and dude lca has fired astra, asraam or ngccm ,,

 

[Satish Sharma]

Spice & SAAW & Tactical Advanced Range Augmentation (tara) & AL TARIQ-LR
ot a part of iaf lca yet, may in future
LOL, Also its not JDAM, but JDAM ER
DRDO Glide Bombs -ther zero info about DRDO Glide Bombs in IAF arsenal

LOL,
Sudarshan is rejected
Griffin is a offer - zero interest from iaf, its a modification kit, not a bomb
No Cluster bomb for lca so far
IAF not using russian pgm in lca

lol,
In two - DUMB BOMB

Except Hammer, no other missile tested

Non tested - becz not a requirements

Yet - im not talking avout yet or certain or future but current status = REALITY

WE = ?? i never said anything about fucture, means there is no WE but only just YOU
Hence im neglecting this para

LOL - seriously, engine need more frequent maintenance than other parts
Again I'm neglecting
FYI - we import rd33, and old rd33 having reliability issue, similar to mki engine, and very common with russian engines

Good for them, now they can setpup mro facilities, wait pak lack money to buy fuels for jf17, very good for them, now they can keep jf17 on ground most of the time

Ask me later

matter of time - at last one thing to agree
LOL, PAF already having bk3 jf17 pl15 is past
What ever i wrote is past things -

LOL
No one need PhD to talk about truth or past, but basic knowledge, info or data is enough
yes lca only having ''5 weapons'' its so bad - iaf even considered gripen - and rejected further order
Only thanks to Manohar Parrikar, HAL with the help of Israel, development lca mk1a - give a new life for lca, with out him, lca remains in icu or rip
ORDER FROM IAF - 83+97 - LCA MK1A [under development in HAL]
UPA[GOI] forced IAF to buy - 20 ioc & 20 foc
Currently iaf having 16 foc lacks
Precision-guided munition
Spice
Joint Direct Attack Munition ,jdam
DRDO Glide Bombs
DRDO SAAW
Tactical Advanced Range Augmentation (tara)
AL TARIQ-LR
Laser-guided bomb:
KAB-1500L
Sudarshan
Griffin LGBC
Cluster bomb:
RBK-500
Kh-59ME,
brahmos NG will be there soon.
Anti-ship missile:
Kh-35
Kh-59MK
astra mk2 etc
+ asraam, derby er, python 5
Do you known why - becz IAF facing lots of issue with lca maintenance but engine maintenance not one of them
FYI- improvement of maintenance is a part of lca foc & mk1a - excluding engine part

Funny thing you are not praising about lca, insisted boasting/advertising about US engine
MTOW, maintenance only focused wrt US engine + uncertain future

LCA tejas designed considering future unlike jf17 which is designed to meet paf current need - but failed/faced problems to develop critical tech like engine, radar, spj[advanced ew suite]. and weapons
For past 2 decade only two important thing to boast about LCA are CFC and FBW FCS

Lca mk1a is underdevelopment,, what are you talking dude next year's going to be delivered the mk1a has done it's first flight successfully..
And iaf has not even received a singl mk1a why would they order python 5, they have common missiles like r73 which is used on other platforms they have astra mk1.

 

[johnj]

Dude pl15 is in service with few block 3s . It is not in use with all rest of aircraft. They will have to upgrade the radar to integrate with those 150 block 1s&2s produced.. you straight away considering that as integrated on whole fleet. Then why can't I consider again. You are considering weapons which are not even integrated on whole fleet of paf.

I was talking for upcoming weapons then comparing it. With weapons package of jf17

Currently jf17 is ahead, mk1a is not even in service...
That weapon package I said is better compared to jf17s.. like upcoming astra mk2 &mk3 ,rudrametc who TF was talking about what is the current status of lca..
You can keep demeaning others by comparing current status of both, and dude lca has fired astra, asraam or ngccm ,,

That is the xxxxxxx point
JF17 already have it and LCA don't , may be in future ................maybe & the maybe depend on IAF
Future contains a lots of uncertainty - but unlike you Im not talking about uncertainty but reality that is already happened
My advice - don't become a easy prey/victims of ADA
Golden era of LCA started when HAL developed LCA mk1A and LCA going to dominate Indian skies from 2025 onwards
Do you want to hear a funny thing.- normally user[air force] declared FOC, but in LCA case ADA cleared FOC
I think currently IAF not interested in giving FOC to lca mk1 but giving top priority to mk1a, may be iaf ditch i derby er in favour of astra 1 & 2. Since astra2 already going through test phase, 1st sqn of lca mk1a comes with internal gun, asraam, astra 1 and 2 and fill the gap created by mig21 [2025] currently IAF using MKI and MK1 to fill the gap created by Jaguar. Equipping AshM and ARM not a top pirority for IAF - AShM role is done by MKI and LCA mk2/ MKI carry ARM, also so far ARM success rate is around 25%. IAF shown very little interest in DRDO LGB and Glide bombs, that is why now DRDO offering griffin LGB kit and IAF purchased JDAM ER. Don't you think Brahmos NG is little heavy for LCA mk1 ?? Dhruvastra and SANT also become part of LCA. Plz dont compare LCA vs jf17, LCA mk1a is more advanced than current MKI, and pl15 aesa is not going to give any edge for if17 against LCAmk1a. LCA mk1a also gets next gen ASPJ from drdo and israel
Follow HAL or IAF to get a better understanding about LCAmk1a and its future insisted of ADA
At present - LCA doing the best job it can do - dropping bombs on targets with high accuracy with ease [better than rafale/jaguar/M2k] @ supersonic & subsonic speeds.[im following LCA developments since its first flight]

 

[johnj]

Lca mk1a is underdevelopment,, what are you talking dude next year's going to be delivered the mk1a has done it's first flight successfully..
And iaf has not even received a singl mk1a why would they order python 5, they have common missiles like r73 which is used on other platforms they have astra mk1.

Nope, LCAmk1a still under initial manufacturing stage. HAL converted one LCAmk1 into LCAmk1a prototype
Python 5 and iderby er comes under LCA FOC not under MK1a and one of the main requirement for FOC. ADA already certified both missiles in LCA mk1 prototype. All FOC standaed is fully capable of using pyton5 and iderby er. Asraam ngccm is not a part of lca foc, but comes under HAL project
Python 5 and i derby er integration comes under ADA and asraam comes under hal
ADA cleared FOC after certifying python 5 and internal gun in 2019, and HAL delivered all FOC aircraft in 2022.
LCA test fired ngccm in 2023
IAF current having derby and python 4, but lacks python5 and i derby er. BDL expect asraam order in 2025

 

[Tridev123]

Testing and equipping are two different things
I dont need infinite test but orders

mki already started replacing mig21
sorry to tell you, iaf lca mainly used for bombing mission currently

tests, tests, ..........................................................................................................................................
where is the order ?

lol, there is no lca mk1a or further order for lca when goi started lca mk2
stop writing rubbish

Point noted
lets hope Chinese increase defense budget to 500~700 billion dollar if it help lca order

Why only 20foc when every one knows lca is better than jf17 ?? What is the benefit of ej200 over f404 ??
IAF want 200mmrca, hence they ditched lca. and demand more powerful engine
Foc comes with pythons 5, derby, i derby er, -- all weapons from israel - missiles, bombs, ew suite etc but iaf only shown interest in mmrca, once mmrca & fgfa collasped, iaf had no choice but to reconsider lca

Till date IAF placed zero order for python 5, i derby er, and asraam,
Only good news is IAF placed order for astra bvr - but hal yet to deliver stimulator
IAF received 150 jdam er 100km + fpr lca, and both hsld bomb & lgb already a part of tejas squadron.
Mki and lca partially replaced jaguar roles. here i am not talking about future but past and current

Future- its doesnt matter when lca mk2 flies , lca mk2 enter mass production before 2035, may be in 2032 if nda remains in power. and only thing iaf have do is to place the order - asraam, spice, griffin kit for hsld bomb; hammer, nag, alcm. saaw

Let's not get into the dick measurement contest.
Probably many members would rightly expect that you being of Indian origin(???) will not make too many negative comments on an mostly indigenous fighter program.
Maybe they are expecting too much from you.

It's not that the JF17 is a F22 class aircraft developed and built by the formidable US military industrial complex. Perhaps you can say that the LCAmk1 is a piece of shit compared to the F22.

But you will never find a Pakistani shitting openly on their weapons Even when they are really a piece of shit. Call it patriotism.

Again patriotism is practised by all nationalities and countries. Most Americans will defend their indigenous weapons even when there are better anologues in other countries. An example - they will say that their Patriot missile complex is far better than the Russian S400. Which is probably not fact.

So I guess it is normal to defend one's own indigenous achievements.
Not asking anyone to totally underestimate other countries products and rubbish it.
The JF17 Blk 3 may be perhaps better than the LCAmk1 in a few areas but it is also true that that the LCAmk1 or( LCAmk1a will be) is better than the JF17 in many more areas.

And most importantly while comparing the JF17 and the LCAmk1 remember you are comparing the capabilities of the Chinese military industrial complex with our own military industrial complex. Pakistan or its insignificant scientific base and military R&D are simply not comparable to India's quite advanced military R&D capability. I would go as far as to say that their indigenous scientific capability is a piece of shit compared to India.

Pakistan is only shining in borrowed feathers. The JF17 program has the 100% backing of China's quite advanced aerospace capability.

India is not yet an equal to China in the scientific research field and in industrial capability but we are fast catching up with them.. I would give it a decade for us to match their progress.

So let's have faith in our potential and repose confidence in our weapons.

 

[Satish Sharma]

Yet - im not talking avout yet or certain or future but current status = REALITY

you're just being realistic so what
You're being realistic is nice but we discussing upcoming weapons Doesn't mean we are unrealistic...it's just matter of time just bashing a aircraft weapon package which hasn't even came in service makes no sense...

 

[johnj]

Let's not get into the dick measurement contest.
Probably many members would rightly expect that you being of Indian origin(???) will not make too many negative comments on an mostly indigenous fighter program.
Maybe they are expecting too much from you.

It's not that the JF17 is a F22 class aircraft developed and built by the formidable US military industrial complex. Perhaps you can say that the LCAmk1 is a piece of shit compared to the F22.

But you will never find a Pakistani shitting openly on their weapons Even when they are really a piece of shit. Call it patriotism.

Again patriotism is practised by all nationalities and countries. Most Americans will defend their indigenous weapons even when there are better anologues in other countries. An example - they will say that their Patriot missile complex is far better than the Russian S400. Which is probably not fact.

So I guess it is normal to defend one's own indigenous achievements.
Not asking anyone to totally underestimate other countries products and rubbish it.
The JF17 Blk 3 may be perhaps better than the LCAmk1 in a few areas but it is also true that that the LCAmk1 or( LCAmk1a will be) is better than the JF17 in many more areas.

And most importantly while comparing the JF17 and the LCAmk1 remember you are comparing the capabilities of the Chinese military industrial complex with our own military industrial complex. Pakistan or its insignificant scientific base and military R&D are simply not comparable to India's quite advanced military R&D capability. I would go as far as to say that their indigenous scientific capability is a piece of shit compared to India.

Pakistan is only shining in borrowed feathers. The JF17 program has the 100% backing of China's quite advanced aerospace capability.

India is not yet an equal to China in the scientific research field and in industrial capability but we are fast catching up with them.. I would give it a decade for us to match their progress.

So let's have faith in our potential and repose confidence in our weapons.

You are the one who turned into a healthy conversation into the dick measurement contest.
Before becoming a dick, try to read all conversation
Matter of fact, Satish Sharma agreed most of my comments.

I'm writing according to his comments and view
Don't be such a dick, insisted try to read entire conversation before writing the dick measurement contest
FYI - F22 is also unable to meet USAF 100% requirement similar to LCA. LCA is like F22 or EFT. JF17 is more like gripen or J20 and no one expecting anything from me but from DRDO, ADA and HAL in this case
I'm not writing a dick measurement contest, insisted just explain the term success and weapons used in jf17 and lca by user after he asked

and at the end he agrees with my points

 

[Satish Sharma]

You are the one who turned into a healthy conversation into the dick measurement contest.
Before becoming a dick, try to read all conversation
Matter of fact, Satish Sharma agreed most of my comments.
View attachment 234551
View attachment 234553
I'm writing according to his comments and view
Don't be such a dick, insisted try to read entire conversation before writing the dick measurement contest
FYI - F22 is also unable to meet USAF 100% requirement similar to LCA. LCA is like F22 or EFT. JF17 is more like gripen or J20 and no one expecting anything from me but from DRDO, ADA and HAL in this case
I'm not writing a dick measurement contest, insisted just explain the term success and weapons used in jf17 and lca by user after he asked
View attachment 234555
and at the end he agrees with my points

And who TF fk asked you what is current status. I just being honest compared the upcoming weapons of lca vs jf17 Sitara.. I agreed with u for current situation there is nothing wrong in it. There was no need to being soooo realistic. Can't we discuss the upcoming weapons on lca does than mean we are very unrealistic.. you hijacked the discussion to somewhere else.. and trying hard to demean others. Good job keep sharing screen shots it reminds of her... Lol
And your dick measures in negative fk off now

 

[johnj]

you're just being realistic so what
You're being realistic is nice but we discussing upcoming weapons Doesn't mean we are unrealistic...it's just matter of time just bashing a aircraft weapon package which hasn't even came in service makes no sense...

That's not how this work. In order to buy a weapon IAF need GoI MOD permission, its long process, means, it tale 2 years to infinity, according to to MDL, IAF not presented its requirement for assram infront of mod
Also IAF brought 150 jdam er, which is not a part of FOC
What is the purpose of Gun without bullets ??

 

[johnj]

And you dick measures in negative fk off now

You are the one started writing false information and now using mean words

 

[Satish Sharma]

From today onwards we should stop discussing future weapons until they are NOT TESTED , INTEGRATED AND MOST IMPORTANTLY ORDERED
(According to John ,be in reality)
if anyone disagrees John wants to know you're location to measure you're dkkkkk

 

[johnj]

And who TF fk asked you what is current status. I just being honest compared the upcoming weapons of lca vs jf17 Sitara.. I agreed with u for current situation there is nothing wrong in it. There was no need to being soooo realistic. Can't we discuss the upcoming weapons on lca does than mean we are very unrealistic.. you hijacked the discussion to somewhere else.. and demeaning other. Lol
And your dick measures in negative fk off now

You use false narrative and info for your comment
I you are the one who aske my replay in the first place
Why you are only considering jf17 blk 1 weapons which lcamk1a , why not jf17 blk4 or gripen g/h
Its total unfair to compare jf17. gripen current status with future future status of LCA
Now you are using means words to support your propaganda

 

[Satish Sharma]

You use false narrative and info for your comment
I you are the one who aske my replay in the first place
Why you are only considering jf17 blk 1 weapons which lcamk1a , why not jf17 blk4 or gripen g/h
Its total unfair to compare jf17. gripen current status with future future status of LCA
Now you are using means words to support your propaganda

Wtf is there block 4

 

[johnj]

Wtf is there block 4

You are the one who know about future - so you tell me jf17 bk4

 

[Satish Sharma]

You are the one who know about future - so you tell me jf17 bk4

I never said it unfair to compare current status discussion was simple upcoming weapons and I compared them. That's you're again hijacking the topic.. anyways you won dude relax now

 

[johnj]

I compared them.

against what ???

 

[Satish Sharma]

against what ???

Tejas's upcoming weapons Against weapons package of jf17... Everyone knows RIGHT NOW jf17 has more weapons this was never the discussion..
Discussion was about when future weapons like astra mk2,mk3 brahmos NG, does jf17 has any answer for this. NO.
I never disagreed to you that jf17 has more weapons after all it's a fully operational aircraft Tejas is barely in service..
You hijacked discussion to somewhere else!!
Tejas doesn't have this doesn't have that this not ordered, it is under trials etc etc

And now don't come with same BS. I'm being realistic bla bla...

 

[patriots]

Ok derby ana python 5
Derby and python 5 comes with Spyder sam system

So they don't need to order them separately for tejas .

Derby is going to replaced with Astra bvr ,sooner or later
On python 5, it's just tested ,
Not known if it's cleared for integration with operational tejas fleet .

Iaf is the customer here , they have 3 options for ccm

1. R73 ( available in large )
2. Python 5 ( available with Spyder sam )
3. Asraam ( will be made by bel ,or already)
Hal integrates something means ,iaf will order , no logic.

 

[johnj]

Tejas's upcoming weapons Against weapons package of jf17.

And that is unfair,

Everyone knows right now jf17 has more weapons this was never the discussion..

Then why you took the bait

What makes you think gripen cnay carry 500kg and 1000kag bomb ??
Who said pak paid for f16/ah1z //
What achievement ??
Define success ?? for both LCA and jf17 ??