ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

Satish Sharma

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From today onwards we should stop discussing future weapons until they are NOT TESTED , INTEGRATED AND MOST IMPORTANTLY ORDERED
(According to John ,be in reality)
if anyone disagrees John wants to know you're location to measure you're dkkkkk
 

johnj

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We were talking about upcoming weapons why don't you understand that. Discussion was never about jf17 succes or failure. Who is asking you is it a failure or a succes.. Discussion was something else.. jf17 can't match future weapons of Tejas like whole astra series mk1,mk2,mk3, brahmos NG, rudram series. Etc etc.
You were being too realistic couldn't even tolerate this , being realistic doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss upcoming weapons...you straight away began smashing with current jf17 status. It has whole Chinese backings it's after all operational.
Hypocrisy is when you were considering pl15 is in Pakistan service on how many aircrafts hardly enough to count on fighter jf bklol-3
Jf17 is successful because paf had no choice here all all western Russian aircraft are line...
They couldn't get upgrades for there fleet of f16 forget new aircrafts...
If you still can't.understand this then I think you're a pokristanis living in Spain acting a indian who admires jf17.
I'm not talking about upcoming weapons, only about a old statement written in pak forum, but you want a unfair comparison, and Im not qualified, becz I'm having zero or little info about jf17bl3 or its future
I'm talking about is - Success of jf17 and failure of LCA, and not talking about HAL Tejas mk1a
HAL tejas mk1a is a successful program with 83 order, plus additional 97 units

Yes- i already told you, ijf17 is developed by Chinese, jf17 program is similar[not same] to Su30mki program
But you want to compare it with LCA program, that is totally unfair
Even the LCA prototype is far better design than jf17bk3 design - there is nothing to compare except some similarities
And at the end, in 2006, IAF rejected LCA and asked to develop new mk2 version [don't ask why, becz I don't know why, may be due to mmrca]
I can talk about mk1a and mk2, but I cant compare tit with jf1, that is why I'm unable to entertain you
PAF flying around 150 jf17, and its highly successful program like Su30mki program - if you can agree with it, then start reading this thread from beginning, you will get why pak once said LCA prgm is a failure
 

Satish Sharma

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And who TF fk asked you what is current status. I just being honest compared the upcoming weapons of lca vs jf17 Sitara.. I agreed with u for current situation there is nothing wrong in it. There was no need to being soooo realistic. Can't we discuss the upcoming weapons on lca does than mean we are very unrealistic.. you hijacked the discussion to somewhere else.. and trying hard to demean others. Good job keep sharing screen shots it reminds of her... Lol
And your dick measures in negative fk off now
Unfai huh
 

Satish Sharma

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We were talking about upcoming weapons why don't you understand that. Discussion was never about jf17 succes or failure. Who is asking you is it a failure or a succes.. Discussion was something else.. jf17 can't match future weapons of Tejas like whole astra series mk1,mk2,mk3, brahmos NG, rudram series. Etc etc.
You were being too realistic couldn't even tolerate this , being realistic doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss upcoming weapons...you straight away began smashing with current jf17 status. It has whole Chinese backings it's after all operational.
Hypocrisy is when you were considering pl15 is in Pakistan service on how many aircrafts hardly enough to count on fighter jf bklol-3
Jf17 is successful because paf had no choice here all all western Russian aircraft are line...
They couldn't get upgrades for there fleet of f16 forget new aircrafts...
If you still can't.understand this then I think you're a pokristanis living in Spain acting a indian who admires jf17.
 

Satish Sharma

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I'm not talking about upcoming weapons, only about a old statement written in pak forum, but you want a unfair comparison, and Im not qualified, becz I'm having zero or little info about jf17bl3 or its future
I'm talking about is - Success of jf17 and failure of LCA, and not talking about HAL Tejas mk1a
HAL tejas mk1a is a successful program with 83 order, plus additional 97 units

Yes- i already told you, ijf17 is developed by Chinese, jf17 program is similar[not same] to Su30mki program
But you want to compare it with LCA program, that is totally unfair
Even the LCA prototype is far better design than jf17bk3 design - there is nothing to compare except some similarities
And at the end, in 2006, IAF rejected LCA and asked to develop new mk2 version [don't ask why, becz I don't know why, may be due to mmrca]
I can talk about mk1a and mk2, but I cant compare tit with jf1, that is why I'm unable to entertain you
PAF flying around 150 jf17, and its highly successful program like Su30mki program - if you can agree with it, then start reading this thread from beginning, you will get why pak once said LCA prgm is a failure
If you don't want to talk about future weapons then dont talk. We were just discussing how its whole weapons package will be compared to jf17. And where it stands
If that discussions seem unfair to you then you're a porkistani no doubt about that.. I ask some
Thing else you answer something else.. just be quit & relax now
 

johnj

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If you don't want to talk about future weapons then dont talk. We were just discussing how its whole weapons package will be compared to jf17.
If that discussions seem unfair to you then you're a porkistani no doubt about that.. I ask some
Thing else you answer something else.. just be quit & relax now
Its unfair becaz even IAF or PAF is unable to do a comparison and i believe IAF fully capable of handling PAF
First of all its not a mk1 or mk1a thread
For new weapons, you need to consider DRDO thread
The issue with you is you want to compare weapons - and I'm unqualified for make any comparison, and i am using pl15 aesa insisted of pl15e due to lack of knowledge, I'm only aware of LCA and its capabilities and if you wanted talk about mk1a, use mk1a thread
Yes, PAF lack money and they wanted a dirt cheap multirole fighter jet, and junk fighter meet their goal, and cost around 25~30 mil$$
IAF having cash, so they wanted a marvel fighter jet, but we failed to meet IAF super duper requirement, now building a new one called MWF
Again you a talking bullshit - PAF acquire brand new AEWs, 100jfs, 26j10s, plus a large quantity of ammunition, drones, MALE attack drone, attack helio etc and US already payed 450mil$$ for upgrading PAF f16
 

Tridev123

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I'm not comparing LCA vs jf17,
Only saying jf17 meet PAF requirements
LCA mk1 dont meet IAF requirementsr
And I never provided any explanation
If IAF pilots having issues with IAF leadership, they can resign
Only thing you can do is make fun of others or use mean words like a bully, or deny about 150+ jf17 flying in PAF.
Nobody including me wishes to stifle debate and healthy discussions.
No weapon platform is 100% perfect. Some compromises in performance in specific areas will be there.

So, not saying that the LCAmk1 or the LCAmk1a is perfect.
There may be some shortfalls and healthy criticism with the view to improving the product is fully OK.

But instead of making a catalogue of the defects and concentrating only on the defects also give suggestions on how the plane can be improved. The Tejas plane is our baby(if we can call it that). No parent will throw their baby out of the house.

And to reiterate again the Tejas is a very capable aircraft and fully fulfills the role of an point defence interceptor. In fact with the additional capabilities added like IFR, AESA radar, auto pilot recovery system, SPJ pod etc it is morphing into a multi role fighter(as far as the Pakistan war theatre is concerned because with the additional fuel tanks and IFR it should be able to cover almost the entire territory of Pakistan. The Chinese front is a different type of challenge because of the vast distances involved and I believe that the Tejas will be used more as an point defense interceptor here).

The Python 5 and ASRAAM CCM 's are undoubtedly better than anything Beijing or Islamabad has as far as WVR combat is concerned.Other weapons are equally advanced. So the Tejas has(or will have) an very formidable weapons package. Right.

You cannot make the LCAmk1a disappear because of some alleged shortcomings.
What is the alternative. Build new 200 nos Mig21 fighters. Really.

Or wait 5 to 10 years for the LCA mk2. Spread the word that it will solve all the problems or shortfalls allegedly present in the LCAmk1a.

(Nobody is undermining the importance of the MWF but please don't use it as an excuse to kill the LCAmk1a. Each perform an distinct role).

And then what will happen
When the LCA mk2 gets ready the same lobby will claim that since it is not a full 5th generation stealth aircraft with internal weapons bay etc it will be obsolete and irrelevant.

So ditch the MWF/LCA mk2 and go only for the AMCA.

And then when the AMCA appears make a case for the 6th generation fighter and ditch the AMCA.

The circus continues with the vested interests sabotaging our entire aerospace industry.

Do we really need this sort of perfidy.

Let the production of LCAmk1a continue till the fully certified MWF appears. We can decide later at that point of time as to whether we need to stop LCAmk1a production and produce only the Mk2 version.

As they say 'a bird in hand is worth two in the bush'. The LCAmk1a is a reality. Let us use it fully.
 

Azaad

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Nobody including me wishes to stifle debate and healthy discussions.
No weapon platform is 100% perfect. Some compromises in performance in specific areas will be there.

So, not saying that the LCAmk1 or the LCAmk1a is perfect.
There may be some shortfalls and healthy criticism with the view to improving the product is fully OK.

But instead of making a catalogue of the defects and concentrating only on the defects also give suggestions on how the plane can be improved. The Tejas plane is our baby(if we can call it that). No parent will throw their baby out of the house.

And to reiterate again the Tejas is a very capable aircraft and fully fulfills the role of an point defence interceptor. In fact with the additional capabilities added like IFR, AESA radar, auto pilot recovery system, SPJ pod etc it is morphing into a multi role fighter(as far as the Pakistan war theatre is concerned because with the additional fuel tanks and IFR it should be able to cover almost the entire territory of Pakistan. The Chinese front is a different type of challenge because of the vast distances involved and I believe that the Tejas will be used more as an point defense interceptor here).

The Python 5 and ASRAAM CCM 's are undoubtedly better than anything Beijing or Islamabad has as far as WVR combat is concerned.Other weapons are equally advanced. So the Tejas has(or will have) an very formidable weapons package. Right.

You cannot make the LCAmk1a disappear because of some alleged shortcomings.
What is the alternative. Build new 200 nos Mig21 fighters. Really.

Or wait 5 to 10 years for the LCA mk2. Spread the word that it will solve all the problems or shortfalls allegedly present in the LCAmk1a.

(Nobody is undermining the importance of the MWF but please don't use it as an excuse to kill the LCAmk1a. Each perform an distinct role).

And then what will happen
When the LCA mk2 gets ready the same lobby will claim that since it is not a full 5th generation stealth aircraft with internal weapons bay etc it will be obsolete and irrelevant.

So ditch the MWF/LCA mk2 and go only for the AMCA.

And then when the AMCA appears make a case for the 6th generation fighter and ditch the AMCA.

The circus continues with the vested interests sabotaging our entire aerospace industry.

Do we really need this sort of perfidy.

Let the production of LCAmk1a continue till the fully certified MWF appears. We can decide later at that point of time as to whether we need to stop LCAmk1a production and produce only the Mk2 version.

As they say 'a bird in hand is worth two in the bush'. The LCAmk1a is a reality. Let us use it fully.
The person you're quoting is a flaming idiot. To begin with he has a huge problem in framing his sentences in grammatically correct English which probably adds to the confusion .

OTOH he's insisting that JF-17 is a huge success while LCA is a failure while OTOH he's been insisting that the LCA is a better FA & he's been doing so across posts & pages .

How does one reconcile the irreconcilable ? Yet he sees no contradiction whatsoever in his posts & continues in the same vein.

In addition to the above he's a bad habit of ridiculing anyone he disagrees with straight off the bat from the first post onwards & starts talking down as if he's the only repository of wisdom on the the entire LCA program with all others being duffers .

If you haven't noticed this trait already , continue engaging till you arrive at the same conclusions.
 

johnj

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Nobody including me wishes to stifle debate and healthy discussions.
No weapon platform is 100% perfect. Some compromises in performance in specific areas will be there.

So, not saying that the LCAmk1 or the LCAmk1a is perfect.
There may be some shortfalls and healthy criticism with the view to improving the product is fully OK.

But instead of making a catalogue of the defects and concentrating only on the defects also give suggestions on how the plane can be improved. The Tejas plane is our baby(if we can call it that). No parent will throw their baby out of the house.

And to reiterate again the Tejas is a very capable aircraft and fully fulfills the role of an point defence interceptor. In fact with the additional capabilities added like IFR, AESA radar, auto pilot recovery system, SPJ pod etc it is morphing into a multi role fighter(as far as the Pakistan war theatre is concerned because with the additional fuel tanks and IFR it should be able to cover almost the entire territory of Pakistan. The Chinese front is a different type of challenge because of the vast distances involved and I believe that the Tejas will be used more as an point defense interceptor here).

The Python 5 and ASRAAM CCM 's are undoubtedly better than anything Beijing or Islamabad has as far as WVR combat is concerned.Other weapons are equally advanced. So the Tejas has(or will have) an very formidable weapons package. Right.

You cannot make the LCAmk1a disappear because of some alleged shortcomings.
What is the alternative. Build new 200 nos Mig21 fighters. Really.

Or wait 5 to 10 years for the LCA mk2. Spread the word that it will solve all the problems or shortfalls allegedly present in the LCAmk1a.

(Nobody is undermining the importance of the MWF but please don't use it as an excuse to kill the LCAmk1a. Each perform an distinct role).

And then what will happen
When the LCA mk2 gets ready the same lobby will claim that since it is not a full 5th generation stealth aircraft with internal weapons bay etc it will be obsolete and irrelevant.

So ditch the MWF/LCA mk2 and go only for the AMCA.

And then when the AMCA appears make a case for the 6th generation fighter and ditch the AMCA.

The circus continues with the vested interests sabotaging our entire aerospace industry.

Do we really need this sort of perfidy.

Let the production of LCAmk1a continue till the fully certified MWF appears. We can decide later at that point of time as to whether we need to stop LCAmk1a production and produce only the Mk2 version.

As they say 'a bird in hand is worth two in the bush'. The LCAmk1a is a reality. Let us use it fully.
LOL , I never criticize or written any shortfalls or matter of fact I kept salient about mk1a becz, it doesn't enter the discussion when pak said jf17 is a success and lca is failure
For your information, its the IAF, GoI criticized and found out shortcoming LCA - Im only pointing out what IAF and GoI did
Proof - you are writing unwanted replay in LCA tejas mk2 MWF thread
Still cant digest simple facts, then at least try to read the first page of the thread
Dont forget to understand this from first page

1704022004677.png


I don't know why people like you can't digest simple facts and truth
Also this forum having special thread to discus LCA mk1 and Mk1a
Link - LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion
This thread is about LCA mk2 mwf and it starts with - GE-F404 powered Tejas doesn't meet IAF requirements
All the stuff I said is from this forum
No one said about perfection, the issue is I wanted Satish Sharma read and understand the basic thing about MWF and why pak used to say LCA is a failure, but he wanted to make a comparisons with future weapons of LCAmk1a vs present weapons of jf17 on MWF thread
May be you can help him and consider MK1a thread insisted of MWF

FYI- LCA mk1a comes under HAL, meanwhile ADA is busy which MWF, its doesn't matter when MWF going to fly. it will enter mass production before 2035 and IAF need 150+ MWF
Also MWF comes with some 5th gen tech like loyal wingman, next gen SPJ using aesa tech, towred decoy. etc. LCA mk1a also incorporate features from MWF program, AMCA program help to develop local TF engine for MWF
Now the Q- what if UPA sealed MMRCA deal ?? no mk1a, only MWF

Before writing mk1a or MWF, try to understand how they came to exist first insisted of making fun of others, writing means words, writing unwanted stuff to prove your point etc
Once again - try to read the first pages of the thread
 

johnj

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The person you're quoting is a flaming idiot. To begin with he has a huge problem in framing his sentences in grammatically correct English which probably adds to the confusion .

OTOH he's insisting that JF-17 is a huge success while LCA is a failure while OTOH he's been insisting that the LCA is a better FA & he's been doing so across posts & pages .

How does one reconcile the irreconcilable ? Yet he sees no contradiction whatsoever in his posts & continues in the same vein.

In addition to the above he's a bad habit of ridiculing anyone he disagrees with straight off the bat from the first post onwards & starts talking down as if he's the only repository of wisdom on the the entire LCA program with all others being duffers .

If you haven't noticed this trait already , continue engaging till you arrive at the same conclusions.
My apologies
But
1704023970400.png


NOW IAF ORDERINF 83+97 LCA WITH F404 engine

Is the proof of my idiocracy
Its normal to became a idiot when you speak IAF language

Yes your are right I'm sticking with a single point becz im unable to take the discussion further due to lack of knowledge about jf17 and behaving like a dick
So the Q is why others don't want to compare lca weapons vs

In simple - jf17 is a success beca PAF accepted it and LCA is a failure becz IAF rejected it
And every one knows that including pak formum members, LAC is a better design/aircraft than jf17
Sorry for the confusion
= In addition to the above he's a bad habit of ridiculing anyone he disagrees with straight off the bat from the first post onwards & starts talking down as if he's the only repository of wisdom on the the entire LCA program with all others being duffers .=
You read my all comments, seriously ?? these bad habit works till some one proves I'm wrong and help to gain new knowledge
continue engaging till you arrive at the same conclusions - exactly and help to keep the other guy to correct himself or giveup
 

raju1982

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My apologies
But
View attachment 234602

NOW IAF ORDERINF 83+97 LCA WITH F404 engine

Is the proof of my idiocracy
Its normal to became a idiot when you speak IAF language

Yes your are right I'm sticking with a single point becz im unable to take the discussion further due to lack of knowledge about jf17 and behaving like a dick
So the Q is why others don't want to compare lca weapons vs

In simple - jf17 is a success beca PAF accepted it and LCA is a failure becz IAF rejected it
And every one knows that including pak formum members, LAC is a better design/aircraft than jf17
Sorry for the confusion
= In addition to the above he's a bad habit of ridiculing anyone he disagrees with straight off the bat from the first post onwards & starts talking down as if he's the only repository of wisdom on the the entire LCA program with all others being duffers .=
You read my all comments, seriously ?? these bad habit works till some one proves I'm wrong and help to gain new knowledge
continue engaging till you arrive at the same conclusions - exactly and help to keep the other guy to correct himself or giveup
Any idea what will be the EW system of mk1A?
 

WolfPack86

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Indian Defence Updates : Su-30 ALCM Test,US Delays F-414,6 Apache Delivery,LRLACM Launcher Ready
 

Satish Sharma

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Any idea what will be the EW system of mk1A?
Well it will have internal dhruti rwr which is also used on su30 (super Sukhoi, replacing tarang)
Along with active self protection jammer angad ew pod. Dhruvti can detect any hostile radar or missile and seamlessly work with active self protection jammer (ASPJ) pod to to take.effetive countermeasures. It has GaN based trms it's definetely better than elta, it will be default of iaf initially ELTA's ell8222 was considered to be integrated but then drdo showed it's ASPJ it 130kg.
Ell 8222 is 100kg..

Tejas mk1A will not have MAWS(missile approach warning system)

The CASDIC (Combat Aircraft Systems Development & Integration Centre) lab of drdo has developed MAWS
6 IR SENSOR (DCMAWS) Dual Color Missile Approach Warning System which is a Passive Missile Approach Warning System utilizing two spectral bands in the Mid Band IR which helps in reducing false alarm..
It is kind of like distributed apperture system..
das employs electro optical IR sensor in 360° coverage in search of any threat. Still both differs alot.
Multi-Sensor Warning System (MSWS) developed by CASDIC, which does sensor fusion like spectra of all of the sensor's data. And presents data to pilot with very less false alarm rate..which also employs RF/UV/laser spectral coverage. This all sensors covers each other's cons making it very effective with very less false alarm rate..

If the Tejas mk1a would have had internal EW, infrared search and track , most important a MAWS, sensors fusion like rafale's spectra EW. Then it would have been truly 4.5 generation aircraft.. sadly it is very little aircraft this is just over expectation. But Tejas mk2 is going to have all of this along with distributed apperture systems (DAS).. mk2 is going to be testbed for all amca 5 gen technologies...
However there were some reports over pods based MAWS for Tejas mk1a but not sure.

We have developed UV based MAWS(also LWR), EW, RWR
For LCH.
Screenshot_2024-01-03-12-22-07-25_f9ee0578fe1cc94de7482bd41accb329.jpg


images (4).jpeg


images (3).jpeg


Screenshot_2024-01-03-12-13-33-35_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg


LCA_Tejas_Fighter_EW_Suite.jpg


images (1).jpeg


images.jpeg
 

raju1982

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US started drama before the deal even signed foget other things, now think what will happen after we test Thermonuclear bombs.
 

raju1982

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Well it will have internal dhruti rwr which is also used on su30 (super Sukhoi, replacing tarang)
Along with active self protection jammer angad ew pod. Dhruvti can detect any hostile radar or missile and seamlessly work with active self protection jammer (ASPJ) pod to to take.effetive countermeasures. It has GaN based trms it's definetely better than elta, it will be default of iaf initially ELTA's ell8222 was considered to be integrated but then drdo showed it's ASPJ it 130kg.
Ell 8222 is 100kg..

Tejas mk1A will not have MAWS(missile approach warning system)

The CASDIC (Combat Aircraft Systems Development & Integration Centre) lab of drdo has developed MAWS
6 IR SENSOR (DCMAWS) Dual Color Missile Approach Warning System which is a Passive Missile Approach Warning System utilizing two spectral bands in the Mid Band IR which helps in reducing false alarm..
It is kind of like distributed apperture system..
das employs electro optical IR sensor in 360° coverage in search of any threat. Still both differs alot.
Multi-Sensor Warning System (MSWS) developed by CASDIC, which does sensor fusion like spectra of all of the sensor's data. And presents data to pilot with very less false alarm rate..which also employs RF/UV/laser spectral coverage. This all sensors covers each other's cons making it very effective with very less false alarm rate..

If the Tejas mk1a would have had internal EW, infrared search and track , most important a MAWS, sensors fusion like rafale's spectra EW. Then it would have been truly 4.5 generation aircraft.. sadly it is very little aircraft this is just over expectation. But Tejas mk2 is going to have all of this along with distributed apperture systems (DAS).. mk2 is going to be testbed for all amca 5 gen technologies...
However there were some reports over pods based MAWS for Tejas mk1a but not sure.

We have developed UV based MAWS(also LWR), EW, RWR
For LCH. View attachment 234827

View attachment 234826

View attachment 234828

View attachment 234829

View attachment 234830

View attachment 234831

View attachment 234832
Thanks a lot. 10 years back there were EW tests on Tejas but don't know what happened after that.
 

raju1982

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Not enough space
Currently HAL rearranging LRU, which help to add more LRUs
If that is the case than HAL/ADA is very poor in modelling. There could have other reason but not this.


After 10 years the progress is lower than the Indian standard.
 

johnj

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If that is the case than HAL/ADA is very poor in modelling. There could have other reason but not this.


After 10 years the progress is lower than the Indian standard.
I think, DRDO lab stuck/having difficulties in developing air to ground mode/ground surveillance modes
DRDO labs already developed or deployed aesa/aaau for EW, air search, missile seeker etc
 

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