ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[SATISH]

Contrary to your understanding, Tejas are given first priority as it is obvious by operational nature of IAF, There are more sorties and more airspace are patrol and scanned by light fighters only, Medium fighter such as MIG-29 and mostly tasked with interception and escort duties this was noted during Operation Safed Sagar where as Light fighters tasked with CAS and CAP and more sorties were taken at back of light fighters, Even today highest sortie rate are of Light fighters and medium fighters such as MIG-29 are still doing escort and interception duties with AWACS and mainly tasked with air to air role rather multi-role, This make abundantly clear why IAF asking for successive variants of Tejas and not so hurried for AMCA ..

Calling MK2 outdated in Indian context is rather knee jerking, Please go through the thread in MK1 for better understanding of Tejas capabilities most of what you mention are requirement of MK1 and MK1-P, abt MK3 it is obvious by operational history of IAF that such requirement are indeed a priority, I am sure our scientist are capable of working it out in a better infrastructure and fiance and not in snake infested building during former regime ..

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AMCA specs are much similar to SU-30MKI and not Tejas in terms of range and other details, It will make more sense that a more efficient machine in terms of operational cost and maintenance cost giving same capabilities..

OP Safed Sagar right now cannot be taken into context. It happened more than a decade ago. The Chinese overtures in the Tibetian plateau has been overwhelming. The ability of their infrastructure faar exceeds us and hence the strike element is very much necessary. Their military and civillian infrastructure there needs to be addressed and a medium twin engined combat aircraft is the need of the hour. The LCA MK2 does not have the combat range or the payload capacity. We need to have the reach deep inside enemy territory to take out their bases and not only intercept the aircraft. I think the LCA MK1P is more than enough for that purpose. LCA MK2 is not a necessity.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I did not only mention just OP Safed Sagar, Go through my post again for better understanding ..

 

[SATISH]

I did not only mention just OP Safed Sagar, Go through my post again for better understanding ..

Yes I did. And that is why I say that the MK2 is outdated. The MK 1A/P is more than enough to meet the needs. The resources poured into MK2 and the MK3 can be given to AMCA to fast track the process. If required the LCA Navy can be converted into an airforce variant just like the Rafale program. We need medium weight category aircraft to go on the offensive.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

This completely your view on the subject, It has no relation with IAF`s vision and operational doctrine ..

I think there is more than enough debate on the subject, Its a pleasure doing so ..

Yes I did. And that is why I say that the MK2 is outdated. The MK 1A/P is more than enough to meet the needs. The resources poured into MK2 and the MK3 can be given to AMCA to fast track the process. If required the LCA Navy can be converted into an airforce variant just like the Rafale program. We need medium weight category aircraft to go on the offensive.

 

[Chinmoy]

OP Safed Sagar right now cannot be taken into context. It happened more than a decade ago. The Chinese overtures in the Tibetian plateau has been overwhelming. The ability of their infrastructure faar exceeds us and hence the strike element is very much necessary. Their military and civillian infrastructure there needs to be addressed and a medium twin engined combat aircraft is the need of the hour. The LCA MK2 does not have the combat range or the payload capacity. We need to have the reach deep inside enemy territory to take out their bases and not only intercept the aircraft. I think the LCA MK1P is more than enough for that purpose. LCA MK2 is not a necessity.

Dear @SATISH ........ You are part right when taking into account the role of fighters in a battle scenario. But here you are leaving aside one of the foremost and longtime requirement of both IAF and India as a whole.

Its true that a twin engine fighter is more then capable then a single engine one while taking the fight to enemy turf. But for this if we start showing knee jerk reaction to each and every development in China, then it would be a blunder on our part (same what Pak does). Lets look back a bit. HAL Marut had been our first Jet. Although it had been designed by a German engineer with half of German scientist in team, but none the less it was something which flew. But what took us so long after that development to build another successful fighter?

Its this knee jerk condition of us which has prevented us from taking one small step at a time and then learn to pace ahead. We should better know our capacity and start buildup on it and try to improve and innovate. LCA had just been a baby step in production of a fighter and there too we had taken consultancy and tech help from others. Now instead of returning back to drawing board and carving out a whole new design, I think the right approach would be to capitalise on the knowledge what we had gained from LCA, MK1 and then try to improve on the basic design. Take one step at a time. Go for Mk2 anyhow and do a evaluation test of it. Irrespective of the fact that whether it would be accepted in IAF or not, it should be buildup as TD. Then go for MK3 and so on.

AMCA is a totally new concept and design. As of today you can't say that the first prototype would be a success story like LCA. Its better to incorporate bits and bytes of what you learn from LCA into it to make it a success. Otherwise it would not take long for our polit buro and Defence experts and analyst to dump MCA in bin and look into some foreign vendor.

Let me give you one practical example of what happens in India with this article below.....
EXCLUSIVE: With only two planes and issues unresolved, IAF to bring LCA Tejas home
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...ved-iaf-to-bring-lca-tejas-home/1/699866.html

 

[SATISH]

Dear @SATISH ........ You are part right when taking into account the role of fighters in a battle scenario. But here you are leaving aside one of the foremost and longtime requirement of both IAF and India as a whole.

Its true that a twin engine fighter is more then capable then a single engine one while taking the fight to enemy turf. But for this if we start showing knee jerk reaction to each and every development in China, then it would be a blunder on our part (same what Pak does). Lets look back a bit. HAL Marut had been our first Jet. Although it had been designed by a German engineer with half of German scientist in team, but none the less it was something which flew. But what took us so long after that development to build another successful fighter?

Its this knee jerk condition of us which has prevented us from taking one small step at a time and then learn to pace ahead. We should better know our capacity and start buildup on it and try to improve and innovate. LCA had just been a baby step in production of a fighter and there too we had taken consultancy and tech help from others. Now instead of returning back to drawing board and carving out a whole new design, I think the right approach would be to capitalise on the knowledge what we had gained from LCA, MK1 and then try to improve on the basic design. Take one step at a time. Go for Mk2 anyhow and do a evaluation test of it. Irrespective of the fact that whether it would be accepted in IAF or not, it should be buildup as TD. Then go for MK3 and so on.

AMCA is a totally new concept and design. As of today you can't say that the first prototype would be a success story like LCA. Its better to incorporate bits and bytes of what you learn from LCA into it to make it a success. Otherwise it would not take long for our polit buro and Defence experts and analyst to dump MCA in bin and look into some foreign vendor.

Let me give you one practical example of what happens in India with this article below.....
EXCLUSIVE: With only two planes and issues unresolved, IAF to bring LCA Tejas home
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...ved-iaf-to-bring-lca-tejas-home/1/699866.html

Well I don't want to make the same mistake that was made during Marut period. We are stagnating with LCA MKII We need to take this expertise and start a new design project as soon as possible. And this must happen before the people involved in the design process of LCA retire. They would have made a lot of mistakes and learnt valuable lessons that must be passed on.

The world is moving away from 4 generation fighters to true 5th generation fighters. there have been around 7 wind tunnel designs that underwent tests. I am saying let the Naval LCA be modified to become the airforce's MK2

Work on AMCA must be started ASAP because of our bureaucracy and lethargic work culture. Remember we are not Switzerland.

 

[Chinmoy]

Well I don't want to make the same mistake that was made during Marut period. We are stagnating with LCA MKII We need to take this expertise and start a new design project as soon as possible. And this must happen before the people involved in the design process of LCA retire. They would have made a lot of mistakes and learnt valuable lessons that must be passed on.

The world is moving away from 4 generation fighters to true 5th generation fighters. there have been around 7 wind tunnel designs that underwent tests. I am saying let the Naval LCA be modified to become the airforce's MK2

Work on AMCA must be started ASAP because of our bureaucracy and lethargic work culture. Remember we are not Switzerland.

Ofcourse, but talking about a whole new design concept right now, I think would be a very ambitious thing on our part. In my opinion, you should start working on the concept, but shouldn't be whole heartedly immerse yourself in it and leave behind the project on which you are getting expertise.

Working on the body frame as of now is a welcome step, but rather then ditching the Tejas MK2, you should develop it and use it as a test bed for your tech. All the expertise you have got in last 3 decades would be lost the moment you leave the basic design and try to work on a whole new design concept. Ofcourse it would be a financially mammoth task to carve out something which you might not be able to sell out, but its worth taking the risk in context of what you would achieve during this time frame.

Anyway AMCA is still a decade far (minimum). So wouldn't it be suitable to work on the current development phase and try to carve out pieces for AMCA?

 

[SATISH]

Ofcourse, but talking about a whole new design concept right now, I think would be a very ambitious thing on our part. In my opinion, you should start working on the concept, but shouldn't be whole heartedly immerse yourself in it and leave behind the project on which you are getting expertise.

Working on the body frame as of now is a welcome step, but rather then ditching the Tejas MK2, you should develop it and use it as a test bed for your tech. All the expertise you have got in last 3 decades would be lost the moment you leave the basic design and try to work on a whole new design concept. Ofcourse it would be a financially mammoth task to carve out something which you might not be able to sell out, but its worth taking the risk in context of what you would achieve during this time frame.

Anyway AMCA is still a decade far (minimum). So wouldn't it be suitable to work on the current development phase and try to carve out pieces for AMCA?

Well the reason why I tell this is the time of the 4th gen fighters are over at the manufacturing arena. We started designing and building the LCA in 1993. If we start with AMCA now we can build on it slowly after induction.

 

[Chinmoy]

Well the reason why I tell this is the time of the 4th gen fighters are over at the manufacturing arena. We started designing and building the LCA in 1993. If we start with AMCA now we can build on it slowly after induction.

Do you really think so?

For this to happen, HAL would have to fly the prototype by 2019 atleast.

 

[Chinmoy]

Well the reason why I tell this is the time of the 4th gen fighters are over at the manufacturing arena. We started designing and building the LCA in 1993. If we start with AMCA now we can build on it slowly after induction.

With any airforce in world it would be the most preferred way of development, but in IAF, for any indigenous development, they would want all the nook and hook from the day one and then only they would think of induction, that too if they don't get some massive kickbacks or kick in their back.

 

[SATISH]

With any airforce in world it would be the most preferred way of development, but in IAF, for any indigenous development, they would want all the nook and hook from the day one and then only they would think of induction, that too if they don't get some massive kickbacks or kick in their back.

Yes. But this goverment prefers the kick in the backs. So that is why I wish they start the AMCA along with a liason officer from HAL and the IAF personally overseeing things.

 

[Chinmoy]

Yes. But this goverment prefers the kick in the backs. So that is why I wish they start the AMCA along with a liason officer from HAL and the IAF personally overseeing things.

Easier said then done. It would not take IAF a minute to point out 101 deficiency in the design and other aspects. It would be safe for the designers to play a safe and a little bit of progressive game in here. By safe playing, I mean to bring IAF personals in term to what HAL could offer and what to expect from them.

Look what happened to FGFA and MTCA contract with Russia, where the IAF keeps on changing there requirements every 4 years with a change in their administration.

 

[vj_vijay]

Hello all, its been a very long time.

As I am not able to find any good images, blueprints or drawings regarding LCA MK2, I ended up modeling my version......

(I am actually modeling LCA MK1 and this MK2 is using the dimension of LCA MK1).

I greatly welcome any comments on improving the LCA MK2 design that I have uploaded.

 

[WolfPack86]

Tejas Mark 2 all set for combat role in IAF by 2017

 

[Sahil.universal]

The tejas mk 2 is supposed to be 0.5 M longer
Expect lrex or levcons
IFR... Hopefully internal ew suite

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its meant for MK2 as well as MK1P..

 

[BON PLAN]

Tejas Mark 2 all set for combat role in IAF by 2017

The Tejas mk1 will not be induced for 2017, so what about mk2 .....

 

[kstriya]

The Tejas mk1 will not be induced for 2017, so what about mk2 .....

Bhai Tu Rafale bhej, tejas hum deklege ( Bro you sell Rafale we will take care of Tejas)

 

[Rahul Singh]

The Tejas mk1 will not be induced for 2017, so what about mk2 .....

As of 1st June 2016 Tejas MK-1 is operational will IAF.

 

[ersakthivel]

As of 1st June 2016 Tejas MK-1 is operational will IAF.

DOn't ever take him seriously!!