ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Longewala]

I don't know where you are coming from...



https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/0...r-the-indigenous-light-combat-helicopter-lch/


The joke is our thought process actually. Do you know what was the intial order of ALH? 18. And how many are in service now? 226.
We jokers do think that if the blades are rotating and copter is flying, we should order it in 100s. Same for Arjun, same for ATAGS.
124 Arjuns were not force feed. 114 Dhanush were not force feed.

'HAL is awaiting a contract from the ministry for 15 limited series production (LSP) helicopters...HAL has already supplied three LCHs to the IAF. By the year-end, a total of 10 LCHs would have been delivered to the two services. We are retaining five LCHs for the next year’s programme to keep the production line operational"
This was in 2021. A fine helicopter, uniquely purposed for our needs, desperately needed as a game changer especially at high altitudes, and this is how our army and air force commanders behave.
Shameful.

I would tend to believe the T-90 class is better suited to our doctrine than Arjun. But the question is, firstly why did our Generals ask for a heavy tank design in the first place, and secondly why were they so benevolent about the various problems with the phoren maal but when it comes to Arjun, Dhanush, Tejas, it must be absolutely perfect if else won't be let in?

 

[Chinmoy]

'HAL is awaiting a contract from the ministry for 15 limited series production (LSP) helicopters...HAL has already supplied three LCHs to the IAF. By the year-end, a total of 10 LCHs would have been delivered to the two services. We are retaining five LCHs for the next year’s programme to keep the production line operational"
This was in 2021. A fine helicopter, uniquely purposed for our needs, desperately needed as a game changer especially at high altitudes, and this is how our army and air force commanders behave.
Shameful.

2022. CCS clearance for 5 LSPs to IA and 10 LSPs to IAF already given. But as I am saying again and again, LCH suffered because of IAF. Lets not derail this Tejas Mk2 thread any more.

I would tend to believe the T-90 class is better suited to our doctrine than Arjun. But the question is, firstly why did our Generals ask for a heavy tank design in the first place, and secondly why were they so benevolent about the various problems with the phoren maal but when it comes to Arjun, Dhanush, Tejas, it must be absolutely perfect if else won't be let in?

IA asked for a 50 ton MBT back in 70's in their GSQR just after Bangladesh war. They were operating 39 ton Vijayanta at that time. So they infact taken the weight increment into account while ordering the tank. But again, lets discuss Arjun, LCH, ATAGS in relevant thread rather then here.

 

[Longewala]

2022. CCS clearance for 5 LSPs to IA and 10 LSPs to IAF already given. But as I am saying again and again, LCH suffered because of IAF. Lets not derail this Tejas Mk2 thread any more.



IA asked for a 50 ton MBT back in 70's in their GSQR just after Bangladesh war. They were operating 39 ton Vijayanta at that time. So they infact taken the weight increment into account while ordering the tank. But again, lets discuss Arjun, LCH, ATAGS in relevant thread rather then here.

Nope, when pointed out that:
HAL made them (LCH)....out of its own pocket.
You responded:
"I don't know where you are coming from..."
and pasted an article mentioning an order from 2022, almost two years after production started.

So let's accept that IAF was up to its usual and even much maligned HAL had more vision and trust in our industry, and move back to Tejas, where almost a decade after IOC we barely have a couple of squadrons and it's all HAL, DRDO, ARDE fault.

 

[Chinmoy]

Nope, when pointed out that:
HAL made them (LCH)....out of its own pocket.
You responded:
"I don't know where you are coming from..."
and pasted an article mentioning an order from 2022, almost two years after production started.

So let's accept that IAF was up to its usual and even much maligned HAL had more vision and trust in our industry, and move back to Tejas, where almost a decade after IOC we barely have a couple of squadrons and it's all HAL, DRDO, ARDE fault.

I said that because people here don't believe that LCH order has been put forward.

Yes.... Mk2 is still in paper is a fault of developing agencies and MoD rather then IAF. Instead of pushing for an interim solution of Mk1A, funds should have been provided for Mk2 development based on inputs of IAF. But government wanted to strengthen industrial base by diluting the capability of IAF. For long run, its fine. But as we could see now, in short time we are suffering.

 

[jai jaganath]

I already mentioned couple of page back that AON for ATAGS is already underway. We would see the intial order by 24 .

In LCH, 5 LSPs been provided just for user trials. But as I already mentioned, if IAF would not have meddled, LCH would have came before MkIV.

24 bro ?
Approval was given for 114 or 144 I don't remember but something like this

 

[Chinmoy]

24 bro ?
Approval was given for 114 or 144 I don't remember but something like this

2024

 

[karn]

24 bro ?
Approval was given for 114 or 144 I don't remember but something like this

Wasn't 114 for dhanush ?

 

[jai jaganath]

2024

India’s Defense Ministry Approves Purchase of 150 Indigenously Made Towed Howitzers

India’s Defense Acquisition Council approved the purchase of 150 Advanced Towed Artillery Gun Systems.

thediplomat.com

But dac had approved 150 guns in 2018
Why will they order in 2024 can't it be fast

 

[jai jaganath]

Wasn't 114 for dhanush ?

Yeah sorry 150 is nos
I got confused

 

[Chinmoy]

India’s Defense Ministry Approves Purchase of 150 Indigenously Made Towed Howitzers

India’s Defense Acquisition Council approved the purchase of 150 Advanced Towed Artillery Gun Systems.

thediplomat.com

But dac had approved 150 guns in 2018
Why will they order in 2024 can't it be fast

DAC approval means funds has been fixed and released for it. But ATAGS has got Israeli and British components. CCS clearance is a must for that. Before that AON would be put forward by user.

 

[jai jaganath]

DAC approval means funds has been fixed and released for it. But ATAGS has got Israeli and British components. CCS clearance is a must for that. Before that AON would be put forward by user.

But by 2024
It has completed all trails by June 2022
Atleast they could have done it by 2022 end or 2023

 

[Delta Squad]

IA asked for a 50 ton MBT back in 70's in their GSQR just after Bangladesh war. They were operating 39 ton Vijayanta at that time. So they infact taken the weight increment into account while ordering the tank. But again, lets discuss Arjun, LCH, ATAGS in relevant thread rather then here.

I am aware it's not a tank thread, but since you have already brought the 50 ton rank requirement, my question to you:
What happened to Tank EX? As per information I have seen in public media it's said it's Arjun Tank Turret with T-72 Chassis, weighing 47 tons, and it failed army trails after 6 months. And no more development or anything on it.
If you want you can answer on relevant thread since as I know, it's not a tank thread.

 

[Chinmoy]

But by 2024
It has completed all trails by June 2022
Atleast they could have done it by 2022 end or 2023

Sarkari kaam hain. Jaldi kaise hoga? Have to look at legal complications too.

That's why I keep my fingers crossed.

 

[Chinmoy]

I am aware it's not a tank thread, but since you have already brought the 50 ton rank requirement, my question to you:
What happened to Tank EX? As per information I have seen in public media it's said it's Arjun Tank Turret with T-72 Chassis, weighing 47 tons, and it failed army trails after 6 months. And no more development or anything on it.
If you want you can answer on relevant thread since as I know, it's not a tank thread.

We started reverse engineering L1A1 back in 1960 and Chicha Nehru had to face arbitration because of it. You think you could go on and replace a under license manufactured T-72 tank chassis with your own and not face any backlash?

 

[jai jaganath]

Sarkari kaam hain. Jaldi kaise hoga? Have to look at legal complications too.

That's why I keep my fingers crossed.

Matlab ab 2024 me order de sakte hai aur 2025 me delivery start hoga aur who bhi 150 mos keliye
Tab tak hamare artillery force ka kya hal hoga

 

[MirageBlue]

IAF should have outright commited to 6 squadron mkii blk1 & 4 squadron mk2 blk2. This talk of "will decide in future" , just create uncertainty which inhibits large scale private sector participation. Piecemeal orders are a bane for Indian MIC. Private sector investments are driven by certainty & clarity.

The other thing in that article which worries me is ADA agreeing to IAF to not develop a retractable refueling probe for mk2. ADA/HAL should keep in mind that their products have to compete in international arms market. If IAF wants a fixed probe, just give them a vanilla version of mk2 but mk2 should not be handicapped for IAF whims.

Is the lack of retractable refueling probe making any difference to the success of the Rafale? Does the J-10 have a retractable probe?

Keep it simple as of now, that should be the mantra. The aim is to get the Tejas Mk2 prototype out and into flight tests. If real estate is an issue and Cobham isn't able to work out a retractable solution nor is DRDO as of now, then let that requirement slide.

 

[MirageBlue]

Block-II
View attachment 166509
Better have some truth in the statement and not pure hopium pakora from Mr. IDRW

I've tried to look for the IndiaTV interview with Dr Girish Deodhare. I still can't find it. Has anyone else seen this interview on TV or YT?

Found it

 

[Chinmoy]

Matlab ab 2024 me order de sakte hai aur 2025 me delivery start hoga aur who bhi 150 mos keliye
Tab tak hamare artillery force ka kya hal hoga

If orders are given in first quarter of 2024 and delivery starts from second quarter of 2025, we should kick Kalyani's butt first. They do keep on tom toming in SM.

But these are the things which are taken care by CCS committee. Since ATAGS is the first weapon in India where production partner is involved in development process, the production and delivery timeline would be much low. For this very purpose the amendment has been brought that if production partner is involved in developmental process, then there is no need to go with the production variant test and developmental trials would be considered as user trials. Moreover the PSQR in such cases would be considered as GSQR. The DAC approval you mentioned was given based on PSQR after which GSQR has been fixed.

 

[jai jaganath]

If orders are given in first quarter of 2024 and delivery starts from second quarter of 2025, we should kick Kalyani's butt first. They do keep on tom toming in SM.

But these are the things which are taken care by CCS committee. Since ATAGS is the first weapon in India where production partner is involved in development process, the production and delivery timeline would be much low. For this very purpose the amendment has been brought that if production partner is involved in developmental process, then there is no need to go with the production variant test and developmental trials would be considered as user trials. Moreover the PSQR in such cases would be considered as GSQR. The DAC approval you mentioned was given based on PSQR after which GSQR has been fixed.

Chalo bhai let's forget atags for 2 years
God save our artillery regiments until then

 

[Longewala]

I said that because people here don't believe that LCH order has been put forward.

Yes.... Mk2 is still in paper is a fault of developing agencies and MoD rather then IAF. Instead of pushing for an interim solution of Mk1A, funds should have been provided for Mk2 development based on inputs of IAF. But government wanted to strengthen industrial base by diluting the capability of IAF. For long run, its fine. But as we could see now, in short time we are suffering.

I would disagree. In the short run, IAF is suffering because they still rely on Mig-21s and have not replaced the MIG-27s.

Unless you believe those 30-40 year old obsolete jets are better than Tejas Mk-1/1As, the air force has shot themselves in the foot thanks to their disdain for Indian products and love of phoren maal. We should have had half a dozen squadrons ordered and inducted by now, and would have cost just a few billion dollars. Woukd they be as good as the latest Gripens and Rafales? No. But they would be a match for anything the PAF has, full up squadrons and far better than what the IAF has stubbornly stuck with.

And suggesting that IAF should have waited for Tejas mj 2 is a familiar trick. Demand the perfect to avoid ordering the good, because phoren is best.