ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Spitfire9]

Not a simple task to shift to EJ200 now when all the electricals are designed for the F414. Integration is no small task. And the EJ200 is not certified to fly a single engine fighter as yet. For that it requires some more work to be done on EJ200 itself, mostly related to bird hits.

And the UK is not the only player when it comes to the Eurojet consortium.

RR can have a JV with DRDO /GTRE for the new 110 kN turbofan, but for all the initial batch of Tejas Mk2, it has to be the F-414-INS6 or else the program will be at risk. As will AMCA, which is also slated to fly with 2 F-414-INS6 engines for the first Mark.

I suspect it is too late to change from GE until a new engine is developed where India owns or shares the IP (eg foreign OEM develops systems A,B,C and DRDO develops systems C,D,E and both license the other to use their IP).

Better get a move on or a new engine will not be ready in time for AMCA Mk2. My concern is will it be possible to use a new engine in MWF, TEDBF when F414's in them need replacing?

 

[Starlight]

I suspect it is too late to change from GE until a new engine is developed where India owns or shares the IP (eg foreign OEM develops systems A,B,C and DRDO develops systems C,D,E and both license the other to use their IP).

Better get a move on or a new engine will not be ready in time for AMCA Mk2. My concern is will it be possible to use a new engine in MWF, TEDBF when F414's in them need replacing?

Take care.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

we are still flying MIG 21 , i dont think Su 30 are going anywhere anytime soon.
what they need is a good thorough mid life upgrade like new engines , new mission computer , new engines etc

MKIs are going to stay for at least 2 more decades.

 

[Lonewolf]

About Marut

HAL HF-24 Marut - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What you say about UK and EU parting company, rightly or wrongly the British voted to leave the EU (all members can say they want to leave under EU law). Most countries in the EU had hoped the British would vote to stay in the EU.

About engines for Indian fighters, I think that a non-US supplier - British, French, Russian - gives India better security of supply than a US supplier.

I agree on that , countries need to move out of US camp ,not fully but atleast have some allies other than US and use independent policy , Britain , france are the allies i see in future for india in Europe , japan us also a reliable partner till interest match , Israel is helpful too .

A much higher defense as well as buisness cooperation is required

 

[VikingGod]

Due to political reasons, there won't be any significant gains from cooperation with GE given US' standing.
If India actually wants to learn and gain something, best bet are second tier declining powers like UK and France.

yup dealing with Europeans, there will be better leverage & deterrence to US

 

[Starlight]

I agree on that , countries need to move out of US camp ,not fully but atleast have some allies other than US and use independent policy , Britain , france are the allies i see in future for india in Europe , japan us also a reliable partner till interest match , Israel is helpful too .

A much higher defense as well as buisness cooperation is required

You see the engines are American and we are getting a solid know how from GE for our intended engine. Personally I want a 130KN + rated engine for satisfaction of a 1.5+ Mach Supercruiseing fighter with a top speed of well over Mach 2.3+. So there isn't a point working with another manufacturer since there will be idiotic delays and narcistic MOUs with the other vendor. That in itself cements the need to trust the United States of America for an untested working relationship, which I believe is blasphemy as There are expats who work very closely with their current I would say still foreign governments so the issue of trust is not present if we non-expats start talking with the 'foreign exchange'. Sorry but it is really dire for public below 35 here since the belief now is let's not become psuedo volunteers when our history demands national harmonized relations at home and abroad.

 

[Lonewolf]

You see the engines are American and we are getting a solid know how from GE for our intended engine. Personally I want a 130KN + rated engine for satisfaction of a 1.5+ Mach Supercruiseing fighter with a top speed of well over Mach 2.3+. So there isn't a point working with another manufacturer since there will be idiotic delays and narcistic MOUs with the other vendor. That in itself cements the need to trust the United States of America for an untested working relationship, which I believe is blasphemy as There are expats who work very closely with their current I would say still foreign governments so the issue of trust is not present if we non-expats start talking with the 'foreign exchange'. Sorry but it is really dire for public below 35 here since the belief now is let's not become psuedo volunteers when our history demands national harmonized relations at home and abroad.

And what makes you think after repeated and continuous sabotage by US in past every now and then , on every project of national interest .

Either we sell off our sovereignty to US and fall in their bucket like korea , still we won't get what's desired , rr is best bet , they worked on f136 engine ,one of the best engine ever , that too in collab with ge

 

[fire starter]

Hmm.

 

[VikingGod]

You see the engines are American and we are getting a solid know how from GE for our intended engine. Personally I want a 130KN + rated engine for satisfaction of a 1.5+ Mach Supercruiseing fighter with a top speed of well over Mach 2.3+. So there isn't a point working with another manufacturer since there will be idiotic delays and narcistic MOUs with the other vendor. That in itself cements the need to trust the United States of America for an untested working relationship, which I believe is blasphemy as There are expats who work very closely with their current I would say still foreign governments so the issue of trust is not present if we non-expats start talking with the 'foreign exchange'. Sorry but it is really dire for public below 35 here since the belief now is let's not become psuedo volunteers when our history demands national harmonized relations at home and abroad.

RR is equally good if not better , both make very reliable engines . Its Pratt & Whitney not as good as GE/RR but yet US use its engines because of lobbies

 

[Ghost hale]

RR is equally good if not better , both make very reliable engines . Its Pratt & Whitney not as good as GE/RR but yet US use its engines because of lobbies

EJ 200 was first priority but F404 was lowest bidder. P&W lobby must be really strong if its true. Both raptor and lightening II uses its engine.
.

 

[Abdus Salem killed]

This is being spread by
Shashi should be killed these planes are not cars

 

[Ghost hale]

This is being spread by
Shashi should be killed these planes are not cars

Freedom of speech is most misused right. Nation have to face brunt of it.

 

[Lonewolf]

EJ 200 was first priority but F404 was lowest bidder. P&W lobby must be really strong if its true. Both raptor and lightening II uses its engine.
.

Thing is american focus too much on afterburner , especially ge , take f 110 ,f101 , f404 , f414 , all have comparitively higher thrust as compared to other european counterpart , good for full afterburner dogfight but Don't go well with fuel efficiency , twr of engine .

We should go for European jet Design with dry to wet thrust ratio of 2:3,

 

[Ghost hale]

Thing is american focus too much on afterburner , especially ge , take f 110 ,f101 , f404 , f414 , all have comparitively higher thrust as compared to other european counterpart , good for full afterburner dogfight but Don't go well with fuel efficiency , twr of engine .

We should go for European jet Design with dry to wet thrust ratio of 2:3,

EJ 200 have customization option available for pushing AF thrust up. I personally think both GE and RR are pioneers and anyone of them is fine. Mainly with adaptive cycle engine tech, RR MOU should really help in leaping directly to front line in engine tech.

 

[Lonewolf]

EJ 200 have customization option available for pushing AF thrust up. I personally think both GE and RR are pioneers and anyone of them is fine. Mainly with adaptive cycle engine tech, RR MOU should really help in leaping directly to front line in engine tech.

As i remember , someone on this forum said , kaveri was having some sort of ACE feature in it , so next generation will most probably have it too , that too without much help

 

[Flying Dagger]

This is being spread by
Shashi should be killed these planes are not cars

No wonder Kerala is most literate state in India full of fools and retard though, if this is their intellectual minds.

Anyway GOI need to go for second batch now as the current order will be completed by next year . We need to book in advance if need delivery in time else Dassault will first fulfill previous commitments to Egypt Greece and other nation who might buy it soon.

 

[Ghost hale]

As i remember , someone on this forum said , kaveri was having some sort of ACE feature in it , so next generation will most probably have it too , that too without much help

Kaveri have AC tech? Not sure. Any source?

 

[Flying Dagger]

EJ 200 have customization option available for pushing AF thrust up. I personally think both GE and RR are pioneers and anyone of them is fine. Mainly with adaptive cycle engine tech, RR MOU should really help in leaping directly to front line in engine tech.

GE doesn't need us that much but RR does. Their business is dependent on Indian orders and if we had gone the right route will be able to make them bent and give us more.

F414 EPE should be procured once it is developed for super hornet program .

Other than that we need to pick a partner and start working on 110/120kn class engine which in future can be upgraded to 150+ for Sukhoi upgrade and what follows next.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Thing is american focus too much on afterburner , especially ge , take f 110 ,f101 , f404 , f414 , all have comparitively higher thrust as compared to other european counterpart , good for full afterburner dogfight but Don't go well with fuel efficiency , twr of engine .

We should go for European jet Design with dry to wet thrust ratio of 2:3,

Not true infact that tells their engines are highly fuel efficient and save fuel for a normal flight path but can provide as much power needed during a dog fight.

Their afterburner tech is world class and highly efficient that's what it means.

Europeans are way behind them when it comes to engines mainly due to investment issue and need.

RR is one company which can keep up though.

 

[Ghost hale]

GE doesn't need us that much but RR does. Their business is dependent on Indian orders and if we had gone the right route will be able to make them bent and give us more.

F414 EPE should be procured once it is developed for super hornet program .

Other than that we need to pick a partner and start working on 110/120kn class engine which in future can be upgraded to 150+ for Sukhoi upgrade and what follows next.

True. RR needs investment and will be willing partner to deal with.

F414 EPE for MK2? or TEDBF/AMCA?

That RR/GTRE deal should be highest priority. Production rate of those have to be off the roof for 200+126x2 + 56 x 2 and if MKIs than 200 x 2 more, all with 5-7 years.