ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Ghost hale]

CAATSA Sanctions not applied on RR ?

Money sanctions everything. After brexit UK will push against ideating against RR business. US can pressure UK but I don't even think US itself will put sanctions. Billions of dollar US defence lobbies business will be impacted. At the end of the day its all about money.

 

[Starlight]

What happened when India was interested in buying the SAAB Viggen (which used a US-designed engine) in the 1970's?

What happened to US involvement with LCA after India conducted a nuclear test?

What will happen to security of supplies of GE fighter engines/spares when India starts receiving S-400?

We had a British backlog of post independence half hearted projects to complete. Slowly we are moving to a higher level of public infrastructure, why do we need a partner notorious enough to be removed from a very old Uk-friendly group of countries it was in and be labeled as a international criminal country only looting others for an idiotic high. Let me honest, I don't want a re-do.

Past meetings and friendly group exercises have convinced me the same. Rolls Royce is definitely coming in my way for a better working group of countries. On a personal note. One example where they came short was the HF-24 engines being non after burning and made a mach-2 fighter design, sub sonic just to take a vengeful angle of post war madness further.

Of course the designer was an famous ex Nazi; Kurt Tank who has made the infamous Focke wolf 190 Werger. Agter signing all those treaties, only the UK was labeled a notorious amd non-trusted as a partner. So as my need was short handed, why the bloddly hell should my industry suffer with such a work partner.

I personall personally know relationship management better than that entire system of their government and I follow a non biased outlook towards other countries that were closer, but are not close at all.

Also technical and industrial might makes a large difference, so compared to friendly and non friendly, I will choose the majority instead of a non friendly nation, unliked by the rest of the world.

I just hope the 'exited' stooges in the my government get paid better then the perpetually red labeled country can pay only to stay loyal to the constitution and each and every soldier oof my nation.

My personal remark - I don't want the UK and have made it clear to stop business and stick with mainland countries and businesses.

 

[Spitfire9]

CAATSA Sanctions not applied on RR ?

I think that CAATSA restricts trade with Russia, Iran, North Korea.

If US decided to sanction India over S-400 by blocking the supply of GE engines, I don't think US would try sanctioning all other countries supplying India with military hardware.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Respectively. Its will be a crime working with Rolls Royce for at least 30 years in the future when geo politics will get the exited back to a better cooperative footing. So I believe working with GE is a better choice, and red coat stooges in your face. Also we are talking about coutries and companies which we need to partner

Due to political reasons, there won't be any significant gains from cooperation with GE given US' standing.
If India actually wants to learn and gain something, best bet are second tier declining powers like UK and France.

 

[Killbot]

We had a British backlog of post independence half hearted projects to complete. Slowly we are moving to a higher level of public infrastructure, why do we need a partner notorious enough to be removed from a very old Uk-friendly group of countries it was in and be labeled as a international criminal country only looting others for an idiotic high. Let me honest, I don't want a re-do.

Past meetings and friendly group exercises have convinced me the same. Rolls Royce is definitely coming in my way for a better working group of countries. One example where they came short was the HF-24 engine being non after burning and made a mach-2 fighter design, sub sonic just to take a vengeful angle of post war madness further.

Of course the designer was an famous ex Nazi; Kurt Tank who has made the infamous Focke wolf 190 Werger. Agter signing all those treaties, only the UK was labeled a notorious amd non-trusted as a partner. So as my need was short handed, why the bloddly hell should my industry suffer with such a work partner.

I personall personally know relationship management better than that entire system of their government and I follow a non biased outlook towards other countries that were closer, but are not close at all.

Also technical and industrial might makes a large difference, so compared to friendly and non friendly, I will choose the majority instead of a non friendly nation, unliked by the rest of the world.

I just hope the 'exited' stooges in the my government get paid better then the perpetually red labeled country can pay only to stay loyal to the constitution and each and every soldier oof my nation.

My personal remark - I don't want the UK and have made it clear to stop business and stick with mainland countries and businesses.

Uhh, what are you trying to say? Public infrastructure, UK, government, etc. None if it is relevant to the question spitfire asked. Nor to this thread. *Who* are you talking about here?

 

[MirageBlue]

This is jumping the gun.

The F-414-INS6 engine is not going anywhere in the near term. In fact, if a decision to move to another engine (which doesn't yet exist) was to be taken, it would effectively kill the Tejas Mk2 program due to the new timelines.

sensible thing is to work with RR to develop a new 110 kN AB thrust turbofan which gives IP to DRDO/GTRE as well. But keep it as a backup, in case it works out, later batches of the Tejas Mk2 can be re-engined with it. But for now, go full steam ahead with GE's F-414. It is a tried and tested, reliable engine. The new engine will take thousands of hours of bench and flight testing before it can even be put into a Tejas Mk2.

 

[Starlight]

Uhh, what are you trying to say? Public infrastructure, UK, government, etc. None if it is relevant to the question spitfire asked. Nor to this thread. *Who* are you talking about here?

Read between the lines.

 

[MirageBlue]

What happened when India was interested in buying the SAAB Viggen (which used a US-designed engine) in the 1970's?

What happened to US involvement with LCA after India conducted a nuclear test?

What will happen to security of supplies of GE fighter engines/spares when India starts receiving S-400?

With all due respect, India-US relations now are not like they were in any of those scenarios earlier.

And CAATSA will be applied in a very benign way, if it will be applied at all. The US Govt., even if it's a Biden Administration, will not allow Indian relations to sour to the degree that they did post the '98 nuclear sanctions. China is a common enemy and a few S-400 regiments won't change that.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

CAATSA Sanctions not applied on RR ?

Will depend on the percentage of American parts and components used.

 

[Starlight]

Due to political reasons, there won't be any significant gains from cooperation with GE given US' standing.
If India actually wants to learn and gain something, best bet are second tier declining powers like UK and France.

No gain has ever come from learning from the British system and further more we have better players as current vendors. Sorry guys that what I want personally.

 

[Ghost hale]

This is jumping the gun.

The F-414-INS6 engine is not going anywhere in the near term. In fact, if a decision to move to another engine (which doesn't yet exist) was to be taken, it would effectively kill the Tejas Mk2 program due to the new timelines.

sensible thing is to work with RR to develop a new 110 kN AB thrust turbofan which gives IP to DRDO/GTRE as well. But keep it as a backup, in case it works out, later batches of the Tejas Mk2 can be re-engined with it. But for now, go full steam ahead with GE's F-414. It is a tried and tested, reliable engine. The new engine will take thousands of hours of bench and flight testing before it can even be put into a Tejas Mk2.

Its EJ 200 being seen as replacement. Already 4-8 GE 414 are in. So prototype and testing can go on. Next prototypes can fly on EJ 200. It seems more like game of chess with US talking sanctions and arms to pakistan and India reciprocating with deals with France and UK.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

No gain has ever come from learning from the British system

That is just a jibe. Logically, these are only countries like Britain, France and Israel which can pass off significant tech to India though at a good amount of money.

Since they don't have long term strategic interests against us what US and China hold.

 

[Starlight]

Its EJ 200 being seen as replacement. Already 4-8 GE 414 are in. So prototype and testing can go on. Next prototypes can fly on EJ 200. It seems more like game of chess with US talking sanctions and arms to pakistan and India reciprocating with deals with France and UK.

Don't worry the overlord scenario of the American and the Russian base group is the same, elaborately plan a future as they were literally running a cold war race when in reality they were systematically removing traces of common axis and some old invading countries from the power band.

Hint-Do you remember which side Turkey was during WW2 and what is common with them and Pakistan?

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

Don't worry the overlord scenario of the American and the Russian base group is the same, elaborately plan a future as they were literally running a cold war race when in reality they were systematically removing traces of common axis and some old invading countries from the power band.

Hint-Do you remember which side Turkey was during WW2?

They declared war on germany to join united nations as Churchill pressurised them to and few days later Deutschland surrendered

 

[Spitfire9]

We had a British backlog of post independence half hearted projects to complete. Slowly we are moving to a higher level of public infrastructure, why do we need a partner notorious enough to be removed from a very old Uk-friendly group of countries it was in and be labeled as a international criminal country only looting others for an idiotic high. Let me honest, I don't want a re-do.

Past meetings and friendly group exercises have convinced me the same. Rolls Royce is definitely coming in my way for a better working group of countries. On a personal note. One example where they came short was the HF-24 engines being non after burning and made a mach-2 fighter design, sub sonic just to take a vengeful angle of post war madness further.

Of course the designer was an famous ex Nazi; Kurt Tank who has made the infamous Focke wolf 190 Werger. Agter signing all those treaties, only the UK was labeled a notorious amd non-trusted as a partner. So as my need was short handed, why the bloddly hell should my industry suffer with such a work partner.

I personall personally know relationship management better than that entire system of their government and I follow a non biased outlook towards other countries that were closer, but are not close at all.

Also technical and industrial might makes a large difference, so compared to friendly and non friendly, I will choose the majority instead of a non friendly nation, unliked by the rest of the world.

I just hope the 'exited' stooges in the my government get paid better then the perpetually red labeled country can pay only to stay loyal to the constitution and each and every soldier oof my nation.

My personal remark - I don't want the UK and have made it clear to stop business and stick with mainland countries and businesses.

About Marut

The Marut was described as "essentially a very long-drawn-out failure", and the aircraft's shortcomings were considered to be due to multiple factors. Among these were the difficulties experienced in securing a suitable engine, which was principally a political issue; while arrangements were successfully established with the United Kingdom and Bristol Siddeley for HAL to domestically produce the Orpheus, it was only suitable as an interim measure as it lacked the power to enable the Marut to achieve supersonic speed. The Indian Government refused a proposal made by Rolls-Royce to finance further development of the Orpheus, which had been specifically aimed at producing a more suitable engine for the Marut.

HAL HF-24 Marut - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What you say about UK and EU parting company, rightly or wrongly the British voted to leave the EU (all members can say they want to leave under EU law). Most countries in the EU had hoped the British would vote to stay in the EU.

About engines for Indian fighters, I think that a non-US supplier - British, French, Russian - gives India better security of supply than a US supplier.

 

[Ghost hale]

Don't worry the overlord scenario of the American and the Russian base group is the same, elaborately plan a future as they were literally running a cold war race when in reality they were systematically removing traces of common axis and some old invading countries from the power band.

Hint-Do you remember which side Turkey was during WW2 and what is common with them and Pakistan?

 

[Starlight]

About Marut

HAL HF-24 Marut - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What you say about UK and EU parting company, rightly or wrongly the British voted to leave the EU (all members can say they want to leave under EU law). Most countries in the EU had hoped the British would vote to stay in the EU.

About engines for Indian fighters, I think that a non-US supplier - British, French, Russian - gives India better security of supply than a US supplier.

The point was to keep them away. Trying another direct tie up is new for my nation.
Also the ideology of the US constitution is very close to my constitution. What is the problem in trying another direct working partnership with a better thought about country? If that fails in the future then we can try something else with another except the UK.

 

[MirageBlue]

Its EJ 200 being seen as replacement. Already 4-8 GE 414 are in. So prototype and testing can go on. Next prototypes can fly on EJ 200. It seems more like game of chess with US talking sanctions and arms to pakistan and India reciprocating with deals with France and UK.

Not a simple task to shift to EJ200 now when all the electricals are designed for the F414. Integration is no small task. And the EJ200 is not certified to fly a single engine fighter as yet. For that it requires some more work to be done on EJ200 itself, mostly related to bird hits.

And the UK is not the only player when it comes to the Eurojet consortium.

RR can have a JV with DRDO /GTRE for the new 110 kN turbofan, but for all the initial batch of Tejas Mk2, it has to be the F-414-INS6 or else the program will be at risk. As will AMCA, which is also slated to fly with 2 F-414-INS6 engines for the first Mark.

 

[Ghost hale]

Not a simple task to shift to EJ200 now when all the electricals are designed for the F414. Integration is no small task. And the EJ200 is not certified to fly a single engine fighter as yet. For that it requires some more work to be done on EJ200 itself, mostly related to bird hits.

Hardening of some points and flight certification. Estimated to be done by 2025 if deal signed by year end or next year first quarter.

And the UK is not the only player when it comes to the Eurojet consortium.

RR can have a JV with DRDO /GTRE for the new 110 kN turbofan, but for all the initial batch of Tejas Mk2, it has to be the F-414-INS6 or else the program will be at risk. As will AMCA, which is also slated to fly with 2 F-414-INS6 engines for the first Mark.

EJ 200 is currently available. It is being used to nudge US against CAATSA with other things like P8i and sea guardian and all deals. It is what is being done. CAATSA is not be all end all. All will fly on F414 only. Its backup plan.

 

[Starlight]

Hardening of some points and flight certification. Estimated to be done by 2025 if deal signed by year end or next year first quarter.

EJ 200 is currently available. It is being used to nudge US against CAATSA with other things like P8i and sea guardian and all deals. It is what is being done. CAATSA is not be all end all. All will fly on F414 only. Its backup plan.

As a citizen of my Republic Of India.
No need. Go against the core Allied countries except the UK that seemed like a hostage during WW2 and we get sanctions. Is that an ego low for some here?