ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Enquirer]

main take away the canards, gun mount on the upper part, not in lower part, speed brake not present in the rear fuselage

Gun appears to be in the wing-root region (rather than on top), right?

One reason I can think of (for this placement) is to make the under belly flush - as such provide less RCS (a gun barrel would surely stick out as a high radiation emitting antenna)!

This gun being positioned on the right-side also suggests that the refueling probe might be retractable!

 

[proud_indian]

Gun appears to be in the wing-root region (rather than on top), right?

One reason I can think of (for this placement) is to make the under belly flush - as such provide less RCS (a gun barrel would surely stick out as a high radiation emitting antenna)!

This gun being positioned on the right-side also suggests that the refueling probe might be retractable!

So can we assume that the design is ready and all needs to be done is building a prototype or are there more steps in between?

 

[Enquirer]

So can we assume that the design is ready and all needs to be done is building a prototype or are there more steps in between?

Not sure if the FULL design is ready (with nitty gritty details). But building of the prototype and fleshing of other details can go in parallel.

 

[FactsPlease]

So can we assume that the design is ready and all needs to be done is building a prototype or are there more steps in between?

Like many industry norm, design also got its own certification (approval). This document is only RFI on some jigs. Even after they got qualified partner and design on those jigs, HAL supposedly retain final decision how to "adopt" those jigs on the last version blueprint, i.e. back for further changes. So, I tend to say NO, not all needs done already for prototype.

 

[Enquirer]

Does anyone understand the meaning of this from the RFI docs (seems like concepts in contradiction):

"DESIGN, MANUFACTURE, ASSEMBLY, AND CERTIFICATION OF CENTRE FUSELAGE ASSEMBLY JIG BY ADOPTING THE METHODOLOGY OF JIG-LESS CONCEPT FOR FIXED WING FIGHTER AIRCRAFT"

 

[proud_indian]

Not sure if the FULL design is ready (with nitty gritty details). But building of the prototype and fleshing of other details can go in parallel.

To what extent design issues such as drag can be optimised with CFD analysis, wind tunnel tests and other such technologies before making an actual prototype?

 

[Enquirer]

To what extent design issues such as drag can be optimised with CFD analysis, wind tunnel tests and other such technologies before making an actual prototype?

Most of it!
Current CFD softwares are quite advanced. Also, Mk2 uses much of the Mk1 design (with minor variations) as such ADA should already have a lot of (real) data at hand to help design the modification in Mk2.

 

[proud_indian]

Most of it!
Current CFD softwares are quite advanced. Also, Mk2 uses much of the Mk1 design (with minor variations) as such ADA should already have a lot of (real) data at hand to help design the modification in Mk2.

So when they were designing MK1 didn't they have such sophisticated software or they lacked in experience or both? Do you think we have overcome such shortcomings and MK2 would be a lot smoother ride?

 

[Enquirer]

So when they were designing MK1 didn't they have such sophisticated software or they lacked in experience or both? Do you think we have overcome such shortcomings and MK2 would be a lot smoother ride?

Simulation software packages definitely improves over time (and with processor speeds)

That said, some fundamental issues with Mk1 design should have been known even without the use of extensive simulation softwares (as in partial compliance with Area rule etc.). But designers normally weigh the complexity of redesign (weight, space, materials & manufacturing considerations) with some fundamental choices made already.

There's barely any design that's perfect with regard to ALL physical parameters. There's some give-here & get-that balancing. (One can definitely make some poor choices if one is not very experienced at the craft though).

Yes, Mk2 would be a lot smoother ride. Essentially Mk2 is a bug-fixed/optimized version of Mk1
But, given that they're fixing/optimizing stuff at every level it does appear like a brand new aircraft (even though the soul is the same as Mk1)

 

[proud_indian]

Simulation software packages definitely improves over time (and with processor speeds)

That said, some fundamental issues with Mk1 design should have been known even without the use of extensive simulation softwares (as in partial compliance with Area rule etc.). But designers normally weigh the complexity of redesign (weight, space, materials & manufacturing considerations) with some fundamental choices made already.

There's barely any design that's perfect with regard to ALL physical parameters. There's some give-here & get-that balancing. (One can definitely make some poor choices if one is not very experienced at the craft though).

Yes, Mk2 would be a lot smoother ride. Essentially Mk2 is a bug-fixed/optimized version of Mk1
But, given that they're fixing/optimizing stuff at every level it does appear like a brand new aircraft (even though the soul is the same as Mk1)

Thanks a lot bro, it was really helpful specially for a nontechnical person like me

 

[Enquirer]

Gun appears to be in the wing-root region (rather than on top), right?

One reason I can think of (for this placement) is to make the under belly flush - as such provide less RCS (a gun barrel would surely stick out as a high radiation emitting antenna)!

This gun being positioned on the right-side also suggests that the refueling probe might be retractable!

Seems like Mk2 gun location is similar to that in F35

 

[rone]

Gun appears to be in the wing-root region (rather than on top), right?

One reason I can think of (for this placement) is to make the under belly flush - as such provide less RCS (a gun barrel would surely stick out as a high radiation emitting antenna)!

This gun being positioned on the right-side also suggests that the refueling probe might be retractable!

i think we may have a chance to see a gun change from canon to Gatling type becoz canon type have larger recoil where Gatling have less it totally my speculation,

also i think the size increase happens in front and center fuselage , so it may suggest that it will increase the wing area so hard points will become to 8 also slight change in center fuselage width also hint the 8th one will be also in center fuselage also size increase may or may not increase the fuel tank size so it may have a chance to increases the operational radius ,

 

[Enquirer]

i think we may have a chance to see a gun change from canon to Gatling type becoz canon type have larger recoil where Gatling have less it totally my speculation,

You're saying the opposite. Gatling is essentially multiple barrels put together - so, it'll produce more recoil energy (not to be confused with recoil force).

The recoil force is mostly dependent on the bullet/cartridge caliber/size.

While I agree that a gatling gun is great for the firepower, it does come with the added penalty of weight and the need for carrying a lot of ammo (to sustain the high rate of fire).

 

[cyclops]

Gun appears to be in the wing-root region (rather than on top), right?

One reason I can think of (for this placement) is to make the under belly flush - as such provide less RCS (a gun barrel would surely stick out as a high radiation emitting antenna)!

This gun being positioned on the right-side also suggests that the refueling probe might be retractable!

And hopefully an extra hardpoint.

 

[happylion]

In some "jigless assembly" processes there may be jigs which function only as holding cradles. This gives more flexibility. It reduces the labour intensivity. This is in contrast to a totally virtual reference method with robotics that is truly jigless

 

[Rahul Singh]

BC!!!

MMRCA-2, ke Drama ka kaya hoga???

MMRCA-2 for Single engine is a bond to be cashed only if there is a significant geo-political advantage(read Afghanistan) to gain in return. In that case, it will be F-16 and no other.

Other than that the way i see it. MMRCA-2 will die as it is. Another batch of 36 Rafales will be purchased (by Modi 2.0) for consolidating strength in immediate terms. Followed by rapid induction of Tejas MK-1&1As and developmentTejas MK-2.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

No reason

Standard fit for 4.5+ gen aircrafts
.....

IRST can be retrofitted too. So, I don't see a big red flag here.

Yep. It's better to get more Rafales than introduce another variant in the mix else it'll just become a logistical nightmare!

Mk2 will be powered by F414.

Rafale has several TOT agreement in the MMRCA1 deal itself. It is not due to logistical simplicity but due to the clauses which were already made in MMRCA1 that Rafale will be chosen. Only reason for not going for 100+ rafale in 2016 itself was that India did not trust France to deliver on its promises. So, there was need to verify. The MMRCA2 tender will only be a sham 8f France indeed has fulfilled its its end of the bargain

Yes, MMRCA-2 is just hogwash. No other 4.5 gen jet can be better then Rafale.

My sincere wishes are Rafale to be last FOREIGN fighter India purchases. THE END FOREVER TO FOREIGN MAAL.

Tejas MK-2 will be in the leagues of Gripen-NG, F-16 block 70. No need for further EXPENSIVE IMPORTS.

The MMRCA2 has indigenous manufacturing. So, rafale might be made in India with Kaveri engine. So, Rafale will not be bought but made in India

 

[porky_kicker]

IRST can be retrofitted too. So, I don't see a big red flag here.

Don't see adequate space for that

 

[Rahul Singh]

Don't see adequate space for that

View attachment 31887

Since the Gun Bay has moved to wing roots, its former location (underneath Air Intake) can house IRST internally.

 

[Enquirer]

The MMRCA2 has indigenous manufacturing. Si, rafale might be made in India with Kaveri engine. So, Rafale will not be bought but made in India

Dude! The whole idea of ongoing RFI/RFP is to get the fighters ASAP - not to ask the vendor to design a new aircraft, spend 5 years to test etc!

Anyways, you enjoy your wishing thoughts!