ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Enquirer]

MMRCA-2 for Single engine is a bond to be cashed only if there is a significant geo-political advantage(read Afghanistan) to gain in return. In that case, it will be F-16 and no other.

Other than that the way i see it. MMRCA-2 will die as it is. Another batch of 36 Rafales will be purchased (by Modi 2.0) for consolidating strength in immediate terms. Followed by rapid induction of Tejas MK-1&1As and developmentTejas MK-2.

I have a feeling that the deal might go through. There's a strong incentive to buy more Rafales (off the shelf or locally manufactured) so as to take advantage of the 'sunk cost' paid to Dassault for 'India specific enhancements'

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Dude! The whole idea of ongoing RFI/RFP is to get the fighters ASAP - not to ask the vendor to design a new aircraft, spend 5 years to test etc!

Anyways, you enjoy your wishing thoughts!

None is asking ti design new plane. Rafale itself can be flown using 90kN engines. Its rear is made in an adjustible manner. In addition, there are India specific enhancement (other than softwares) oftwa cost billions and will go to perfect this. So, the design is going to be transferred to India.

 

[porky_kicker]

Anyone else curious about 'stub wing'??

Nothing noteworthy

Stub wing here indicates the portion of the wing which is part of the front fuselage. Since it is small (since part of front fuselage) and part of the main wing ( after complete assembly of aircraft ) it has been termed here as the stub wing.

In the complete aircraft the " stub wing " will be flush with the wing ie part / continuation of the wing.

One needs to understand the context , stub wings application differs , sometimes wings of certain aircrafts are termed as stub wings because of their size , helicopter have stub wings for weapons carriage and lift generation , sometimes prominent strakes on the front section of aircrafts are termed as stub wings.

 

[porky_kicker]

Since the Gun Bay has moved to wing roots, its former location (underneath Air Intake) can house IRST internally.

Possible , we will know for sure when the final product comes out

 

[porky_kicker]

And let me add there is no prototype aircrafts planned for LCA mk2 , all aircrafts starting from the first ones will be production standard.

PKS spreading bullshit as usual

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Don't see adequate space for that

View attachment 31887

The IRST generally pokes out with a big camera like lens structure. It can be adjusted near radome or somewhere in fuselage as large part of it protrudes outside and little space is needed in inside. There is also something called EQPT BAY (equipment bay?) below canopy. What is that for?

 

[Enquirer]

Nothing noteworthy

Stub wing here indicates the portion of the wing which is part of the front fuselage. Since it is small (since part of front fuselage) and part of the main wing ( after complete assembly of aircraft ) it has been termed here as the stub wing.

In the complete aircraft the " stub wing " will be flush with the wing ie part / continuation of the wing.

One needs to understand the context , stub wings application differs , sometimes wings of certain aircrafts are termed as stub wings because of their size , helicopter have stub wings for weapons carriage and lift generation , sometimes prominent strakes on the front section of aircrafts are termed as stub wings.

Something that's part of the aircraft wing is never termed as 'stub wing'.
It's a weird use of that terminology...that's why I pointed it out.
Technically it's the leading edge of the wing.

 

[Enquirer]

And let me add there is no prototype aircrafts planned for LCA mk2 , all aircrafts starting from the first ones will be production standard.

PKS spreading bullshit as usual

I doubt there'll be no prototypes! No tech demonstrator perhaps!
There will be 1 or two prototypes definitely! There might be minor adjustments based on how the bird flies.

 

[porky_kicker]

Something that's part of the aircraft wing is never termed as 'stub wing'.
It's a weird use of that terminology...that's why I pointed it out.
Technically it's the leading edge of the wing.

Stub wing in the context of standalone front fuselage section in blueprints / CAD diagrams only.

Leading edge is not completely in the mid section if the wings are included , it extends beyond the intakes and part of front section , so if a aircraft is divided in sections where will you include it , with the wings or with the front section.

It's for ease of engineering drawing and subsequent manufacturing process.

It is my personal opinion , I could be wrong or right

 

[porky_kicker]

I doubt there'll be no prototypes! No tech demonstrator perhaps!
There will be 1 or two prototypes definitely! There might be minor adjustments based on how the bird flies.

I am saying what ADA / HAL said previously,
Google it , what will happen in future I don't know.

our opinions don't matter in real life or do they ?

 

[Enquirer]

I am saying what ADA / HAL said previously,
Google it , what will happen in future I don't know.

our opinions don't matter in real life

Ok. As you suggested, I googled. Here's what Parrikar said in July,2018 in the Parliament:

"maiden flight of first Prototype and Operational Clearance are likely to be completed by December 2019 and December 2022, respectively. There after induction,"

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...o-bid-for-mmrca-deal/articleshow/48347892.cms

 

[porky_kicker]

Ok. As you suggested, I googled. Here's what Parrikar said in July,2018 in the Parliament:

"maiden flight of first Prototype and Operational Clearance are likely to be completed by December 2019 and December 2022, respectively. There after induction,"

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...o-bid-for-mmrca-deal/articleshow/48347892.cms

Ada / hal statement Google ................

 

[Enquirer]

Ada / hal statement Google ................

Here's what I found:

"Senior HAL and ADA officials agree the Tejas Mark II is unlikely to enter production till 2023-24. Developing the Mark II involves fitting in a more powerful engine --- the General Electric F-414INS6 replacing the current F-404IN --- and upgrading avionics and weaponry. With prototype development likely to take till 2019, another three to four years would go in flight-testing the Tejas Mark II and preparing production drawings."

https://www.business-standard.com/a...rce-to-buy-tejas-mark-1-a-115081201951_1.html

 

[Enquirer]

Stub wing in the context of standalone front fuselage section in blueprints / CAD diagrams only.

Leading edge is not completely in the mid section if the wings are included , it extends beyond the intakes and part of front section , so if a aircraft is divided in sections where will you include it , with the wings or with the front section.

It's for ease of engineering drawing and subsequent manufacturing process.

It is my personal opinion , I could be wrong or right

‘Stub wings’ are present in mid section drawings also

 

[Rahul Singh]

I have a feeling that the deal might go through. There's a strong incentive to buy more Rafales (off the shelf or locally manufactured) so as to take advantage of the 'sunk cost' paid to Dassault for 'India specific enhancements'

The best way to take advantage would be adding 56 Rafale M over 36 more for IAF. Then asking French to form a JV with GTRE and an Indian production partner from the private sector for development of a 110KN Turbofan with growth potential up to 130KN on a risk-sharing basis. With complete IPR residing with Indians of course.

Alternatively, GOI should ask for an assembly line of A320 on Indian soil with minimum production capacity meeting + 80% of order book of Indian carriers. However, it would be tricky since Airbus is a multinational consortium but still it can be done. Indigo(6E) is buying A320 in big numbers. Other carriers like Jet Airways(9W) and Spice Jet(SG) --which are predominantly Boeing operators-- shall be persued to exercise further expansions with A320. Linking C-295 with it will also help. In total a great opportunity which GOI should not let go of.

Alternatively, Dassault should be asked for becoming a risk-sharing partner in the development of RTA family project with SNECMA partnering with an Indian partner for local production of appropriate powerplants.

 

[porky_kicker]

Here's what I found:

"Senior HAL and ADA officials agree the Tejas Mark II is unlikely to enter production till 2023-24. Developing the Mark II involves fitting in a more powerful engine --- the General Electric F-414INS6 replacing the current F-404IN --- and upgrading avionics and weaponry. With prototype development likely to take till 2019, another three to four years would go in flight-testing the Tejas Mark II and preparing production drawings."

https://www.business-standard.com/a...rce-to-buy-tejas-mark-1-a-115081201951_1.html

Can't find it , used Google unsuccessfully

What I remember is it mentioned building of 3 production standard aircrafts for tests etc and build on that initially.

and skip the building of prototypes altogether. Since it will prolong the development time cycle.

It a matter of semantics I guess , what you or others are calling as prototype could be or are initial or basic production standard aircrafts with minimum deviation from the expected final operational product.

This is expected IMO after the experience with LCA mk1 mk1a

 

[Enquirer]

Can't find it , used Google unsuccessfully

What I remember is it mentioned building of 3 production standard aircrafts for tests etc and build on that initially.

and skip the building of prototypes altogether. Since it will prolong the development time cycle.

It a matter of semantics I guess , what you or others are calling as prototype could be or are initial or basic production standard aircrafts with minimum deviation from the expected final operational product.

This is expected IMO after the experience with LCA mk1 mk1a

I remember distinctly ADA heads saying there won’t be a Technology Demonstrator.

 

[porky_kicker]

‘Stub wings’ are present in mid section drawings also

Are bhai abtak kya samjha Raha tha ?

Small portion which is part of the front wing as extension or extension cum anchor point etc etc but physically present on a section ( in cad drawings here ) other than the main wing section ( both left and right ) is being referred to as STUB WING by hal IMO.

Comparing the 3 pics and ignoring the canards you will notice the wings are flush completely.

If you don't agree no problem , I only offering my view . I could be wrong also

Ok time to go , exam ke liye form fill Karna tha , Lekin yaha time pass kar Raha hu.
Mera kuch nahi hoga.

 

[darshan978]

Are bhai abtak kya samjha Raha tha ?

Small portion which is part of the front wing as extension or extension cum anchor point etc etc but physically present on a section ( in cad drawings here ) other than the main wing section ( both left and right ) is being referred to as STUB WING by hal IMO.

View attachment 31900
View attachment 31901
View attachment 31902

Comparing the 3 pics and ignoring the canards you will notice the wings are flush completely.

If you don't agree no problem , I only offering my view . I could be wrong also

Ok time to go , exam ke liye form fill Karna tha , Lekin yaha time pass kar Raha hu.
Mera kuch nahi hoga.

By looking at canard position i assume they are non moving...
It will be huge panalty in AOA I guess...

 

[porky_kicker]

Last post here

CFD studies for the selection of strakes position and which later was replaced by close coupled canards for better performance etc