ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[sayareakd]

Source ? Were you there in person ?

like his location it is "classified".

 

[Sea Eagle]

Source ? Were you there in person ?

He is in NIT Trichy and now working as an intern in BEL.. This was the fifth seminar by DRDO in his college this year..

 

[rahulrds1]

Their was a seminar by a DRDO scientist Dr. Prabhakar he basically specializes in
trajectory optimization and has
developed algorithms for the same... Here are few things he highlighted :
1)IIR guidance was designed by RCI
however, Indian designed IR
detector(FOCAL PLANAR ARRAY )
couldn't work satisfactorily in harsh
heat conditions of rajasthan hence
FPA from safran(france) were
procured for NAG, -MCT(mercury
cadmium telluride)
the upgraded IIR uses cooled TI
2)india was the first country in the
world to have successfully launched
an IRBM(prithvi 3) from surface ship
3) trishul missile was a success from
technology point of view and many
of it's lessons were applied in
MRSAM project
4)LCA's x-band AESA radar is well
underway and was recently sent
abroad for a certain critical test(test
facility for which isn't available in
the country ).T/R modules of the
AESA are not only indigenously
designed but also indigenously
manufactured by astra microwave
corp Hyderabad
He also revealed that BVR trials of
LCA will commence in june 2014and
told that the reason why they didn't
integrate indigenous AESA into LSP -8
etc was because they didn't want any
more delays due to indigenous AESA,
their UTMOST priority at present is
stick to the schedule and successfully
accomplish the parameters for FOC

This could be the Miniaturized AESA (X band) TR module, discussed in the lca thread, http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/43717-ada-lca-tejas-iv-116.html#post818042

source: [page no. 9] http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/techfocus/2013/TF_June_2013_WEB.pdf

DRDO chief, V.K. Saraswaswat interview on AESA radar--

3:10 min onwards,...

DRDO chief V.K. Saraswaswat on AWACS , AESA radar and Arjun Tank ( Part - 7) - YouTube

 

[Twinblade]

This could be the Miniaturized AESA (X band) TR module, discussed in the lca thread, http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/43717-ada-lca-tejas-iv-116.html#post818042

source: [page no. 9] http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/techfocus/2013/TF_June_2013_WEB.pdf

Rahul, that is hardly a miniature module. See those connectors on the right side ?

They are supposed to be as thick as the ones in this multi module block.

This on the other hand is an Indian miniaturised T/R module/multi-module (unknown band). Since this was displayed with the aew&cs, there is little chance that it is in x-band.

 

[makmohan]

Tejas FOC : Miles to go | idrw.org

2013 was a Excellent year for Tejas not only it was awarded IOC-2 , Tejas team successfully carried out more then 500 accident free test flights and multiple flights on same day by same Aircraft which has increased reliability and maintainability of the Tejas aircraft with normal crew , Gone are the days when after each flight, aircraft could be stripped down for checks and could take weeks for next flights
But Tejas has a still long way to go before it can be awarded Final operation clearance ( FOC) which is just 10 months away from FOC deadline , ADA is currently carrying out required modification on at-least 3 Tejas aircrafts to make them FOC compatible and will soon restart fresh trails soon .
idrw.org with help of its sources and media reports have put together 10 crucial tasks which Tejas will require to be awarded Final operation clearance ( FOC) , one of the first crucial requirements which IAF terms " Non-negotiable " is the expanding the flight envelope , at present Tejas has been tested up to -2G and 6G , which will be further expanded to -3G and 8G , flight-control software will be upgraded to remove the earlier limitations which was in for safety purpose , airframe already is capable of pulling higher Gravitational pull and does not require airframe modification .
Second requirement and a very crucial one will be for Tejas to clear 24 Degree Angle of Attack ( AOA ) which presently stands at 22 Degree again does not require airframe modification but more to flight-control software and very crucial aspect for an aircraft in a close combat Dog fight with enemy aircraft , Third requirement will be to increase the flight range of the Tejas which means addition of In-flight mid air refuelling probe , sources have in past have confirmed to idrw.org that Tejas LSP have all adequate Piping and plumbing in place for integration of air refuelling probe , ground based tests have already been carried out successfully , DRDO along with British manufacturing company Cobham plc already has developed Fixed and Retractable Air to Air Refuelling Probe but it is still unclear if Tejas MK-1 will be integrated with Fixed or Retractable Air to Air Refuelling Probe.
Fourth and Fifth requirements for Tejas FOC will require Integration of new Air to Air Missile . Tejas under IOC-2 requirements already cleared integration and testing of Russian made WVR ( Within Visual Range ) R-73 missile but for Tejas to be granted FOC it will also require demonstration and clearance to operate BVR ( Beyond Visual Range ) missile which is Israeli made Derby and another WVR ( Within Visual Range ) Israeli made Python-5 , Radar of Tejas which has received large Israeli technological input will require less time to Integrate Israeli missile as per Defence Analyst Vinayak shetty . sixth crucial piece will be to integrate Russian made Powerful, fast-firing six-barrelled Gryazev-shipunov GSH-23mm cannon .
Seventh requirement will be to test new HAL made fuel drop tanks capable to fly at Supersonic speeds , drop tanks currently used by Tejas which is also made by HAL are only cleared for Subsonic flights and new drop tanks will be Aerodynamically enhanced to reduce drag for supersonic flights , HAL in past had some serious issues with Quality of drop tanks , apparently those tanks had developed fuel leaks due to poor workmanship on them , HAL seems to have fixed that issue and hope fully those issues will not surface in new drop tanks .
Eighth Requirement will be new Radome with better make for improved radar performance , ADA already has asked for Expression Of Interest' [EOI] for the 'Design, Development and Manufacture of new Radome for LCA , ADA will test new radome for performance improvement with its own currently used radome and if New Radome is found Better only then it will assign a Indian production agency to manufacturing them .
Ninth improvement asked by IAF is new cooling system for Brakes and last task for FOC will be to clear some new air to Ground PGMS and un guided bombs which according to sources will be covered under new weapons tests to be conducted soon

 

[Twinblade]

· 2490th flight on 17 Feb
TD1 : 233, PV1: 242, PV3: 381, LSP1: 74. LSP3: 189, LSP5: 246, TD2 : 305, PV2: 222, PV5: 36, LSP2: 290, LSP4: 110, LSP7: 77, NP1: 12, LSP8 : 73

2482th flight on 08 Feb
TD1:233,PV1:242,PV3:381,LSP1:74,LSP3:185,LSP5:246,TD2 :305,PV2:222,PV5:36,LSP2:290,LSP4:110,LSP7:77,NP1:11,LSP8:70

 

[Sridhar]

Tejas IOC brochure document claims in its achievements section that 24 degree AOA has been achieved already.Similarly there is mention of some other futures which has been achieved already.

I have already posted the document here http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/43717-ada-lca-tejas-iv-162.html#post855520

Achievements Section Page 8 and Page 9

 

[makmohan]

Early retirement of Mig-27 helping Lca Tejas growth | idrw.org

Recently Ministry of Defence have indicated that bulk of Mig-21 and Mig-27 which forms 14 combat squadrons will be replaced by home grown Tejas fighter aircrafts and most of Mig-21 and Mig-27 operated by IAF are deployed on western front and Eastern front .
Indian Air force operates largest fleet of Mig-27 in the world but the Strike aircraft Inducted almost decades later then Mig-21 might make an early exist along with Mig-21, IAF operates about 80 (four squadrons) of these soviet-origin planes in its fleet and due to the recurring problems in their R-29s engines, it had to ground them on many occasion in past few year, one famous crash was in kargil war when an MiG-27 engine ingested gases from the onboard gunfire, resulting in disrupted airflow to the engine, MiG-27 was operating at low speeds at high altitude which lead to compressor stall even when aircraft speed was on recommended side.
IAF later carried out detail inspection of many other cases of Mig-27 crashes related to engine flame out or malfunctioning over the years and the study revealed that R-29s powering Mig-27 had design defects which cannot be corrected even with direct Russian assistances.
India and Russia agreed that only way to fix the problem is to change the engine, a mig-27 was re-engined with AL-31F it is the same engine used on IAF's Sukhoi su 30 MKI and was tested which lead to increased thrust by 1 ton, weight was reduced by 200 kg, fuel savings was up by 15 percent, but then IAF had another problem, workmanship on Mig-27 airframe was not the best and aircraft could had to be retired early anyway so the whole plan was dropped.
Early retirement of Mig-27 was not anticipated by IAF a decade ago and decade later plans to induct MMRCA aircrafts are still on paper , but misery of Mig-27 might actually help growth of Tejas in IAF , recent admission by MOD indicates that order of Tejas likely will go up in near future . First of the Mig-27 to be phased out would be the two squadrons based in Kalaikunda by 2015 and remaining two deployed in Jodhpur would also be on their way out of the force by 2017.
IAF till now has ordered only to 6 Tejas squadrons, two squadrons of the Tejas Mark-1, and four squadrons of the Tejas Mark II, That means it&'s about about 120 aircrafts for IAF. Indian navy will also order 40-50 Naval LCA based on Mark-2, so if there is increase in the order Tejas production line will have to be revamped and upgraded to delivery higher number of aircrafts Per year. According to Indian air force sources close to idrw.org, IAF plans to secure western front with Pakistan and Eastern front with china by operating combo of Tejas and Sukhoi 30 fighter aircrafts in near future and replacing bulk of Mig-21 and Mig-27 operated in western and eastern front with home grown fighter jet.
But HAL's Production line is geared up to deliver 16 Tejas a year only , so if IAF does place orders for more 6 or 8 squadrons of Tejas then HAL will require a second production line which can deliver around 16 more aircrafts a year . Problem is if IAF sticks to Tejas MK2, then MK2 which likely will enter production only post 2020 this will still leave IAF under strength for at least another decade to come.
Either IAF will have to order more Tejas MK-1 from current order of 40 to 60 so that production line which likely will become idle for a year or two before MK2 goes into production . Keeping production line open and active will lead to induction of higher Tejas aircrafts or place higher orders for Tejas MK-2 so that second Production line could be in place by HAL and sourcing of materials from industrial partners can lead to cheaper price tag due to large order . bigger production line for Tejas will also help India secure export orders if any comes by , it will be interesting to see which road IAF will take to keep squadron strength up .

 

[ersakthivel]

A production line of just 16 tejas fighter an year is not sufficient to keep the fleet strength of IAF in a meaningful manner.

So a second production line is needed and it will give a boost to export prospects of tejas mk-2 once IAF orders are over,

As AMCA and possibly tejas mk-3 too will enter into production after tejas mk-2 those line can have their order books full for decades to come even discounting the export prospects of tejas mk-2 and a stripped down trainer version of tejas ,

early action will also pave way for the meaningful participation of indian private players as it is possible for GOI to ask private indian players to submit a bid for second production line for tejas .

 

[Abhijeet Dey]

A production line of just 16 tejas fighter an year is not sufficient to keep the fleet strength of IAF in a meaningful manner.

So a second production line is needed and it will give a boost to export prospects of tejas mk-2 once IAF orders are over,

As AMCA and possibly tejas mk-3 too will enter into production after tejas mk-2 those line can have their order books full for decades to come even discounting the export prospects of tejas mk-2 and a stripped down trainer version of tejas ,

early action will also pave way for the meaningful participation of indian private players as it is possible for GOI to ask private indian players to submit a bid for second production line for tejas .

Firstly HAL & DRDO should try to develop Tejas MK-2 more quickly since IAF needs more of these jets to replace its older Soviet-era jets. All eyes will be on HAL's development of Tejas Mk-2. Is it possible for the government to allocate more funds for Mk-2?

 

[ersakthivel]

Firstly HAL & DRDO should try to develop Tejas MK-2 more quickly since IAF needs more of these jets to replace its older Soviet-era jets. All eyes will be on HAL's development of Tejas Mk-2. Is it possible for the government to allocate more funds for Mk-2?

A bigger capacity production line for mk-1 will enable faster test flight and FOC of tejas mk-2,

because the tejas mk-2 LSPs can be produced faster and testing can be finished quicker with the more in number test flight fighters of mk-2,

if you strangulate the tejas production with lower capacity , most of it's time will be occupied in tejas mk-1 production for IAF,

and mk-2 LSPs will turn up at a very slow rate, (just the same problem encountered by tejas mk-1 for the lack of dedicated production line )

And mk-2 is just an upgrade on mk-1 not a new airframe design at all, And it was putting in all the recommendations made by CEMILAC on mk-1 after extensive study so no serious issue is expected, as even the wing loading of tejas mk-1 and mk-2 are going to be the same,

 

[ersakthivel]

Tejas FOC : Miles to go | idrw.org

2013 was a Excellent year for Tejas not only it was awarded IOC-2 , Tejas team successfully carried out more then 500 accident free test flights and multiple flights on same day by same Aircraft which has increased reliability and maintainability of the Tejas aircraft with normal crew , Gone are the days when after each flight, aircraft could be stripped down for checks and could take weeks for next flights
But Tejas has a still long way to go before it can be awarded Final operation clearance ( FOC) which is just 10 months away from FOC deadline , ADA is currently carrying out required modification on at-least 3 Tejas aircrafts to make them FOC compatible and will soon restart fresh trails soon .
idrw.org with help of its sources and media reports have put together 10 crucial tasks which Tejas will require to be awarded Final operation clearance ( FOC) , one of the first crucial requirements which IAF terms " Non-negotiable " is the expanding the flight envelope , at present Tejas has been tested up to -2G and 6G , which will be further expanded to -3G and 8G , flight-control software will be upgraded to remove the earlier limitations which was in for safety purpose , airframe already is capable of pulling higher Gravitational pull and does not require airframe modification .
Second requirement and a very crucial one will be for Tejas to clear 24 Degree Angle of Attack ( AOA ) which presently stands at 22 Degree again does not require airframe modification but more to flight-control software and very crucial aspect for an aircraft in a close combat Dog fight with enemy aircraft , Third requirement will be to increase the flight range of the Tejas which means addition of In-flight mid air refuelling probe , sources have in past have confirmed to idrw.org that Tejas LSP have all adequate Piping and plumbing in place for integration of air refuelling probe , ground based tests have already been carried out successfully , DRDO along with British manufacturing company Cobham plc already has developed Fixed and Retractable Air to Air Refuelling Probe but it is still unclear if Tejas MK-1 will be integrated with Fixed or Retractable Air to Air Refuelling Probe.
Fourth and Fifth requirements for Tejas FOC will require Integration of new Air to Air Missile . Tejas under IOC-2 requirements already cleared integration and testing of Russian made WVR ( Within Visual Range ) R-73 missile but for Tejas to be granted FOC it will also require demonstration and clearance to operate BVR ( Beyond Visual Range ) missile which is Israeli made Derby and another WVR ( Within Visual Range ) Israeli made Python-5 , Radar of Tejas which has received large Israeli technological input will require less time to Integrate Israeli missile as per Defence Analyst Vinayak shetty . sixth crucial piece will be to integrate Russian made Powerful, fast-firing six-barrelled Gryazev-shipunov GSH-23mm cannon .
Seventh requirement will be to test new HAL made fuel drop tanks capable to fly at Supersonic speeds , drop tanks currently used by Tejas which is also made by HAL are only cleared for Subsonic flights and new drop tanks will be Aerodynamically enhanced to reduce drag for supersonic flights , HAL in past had some serious issues with Quality of drop tanks , apparently those tanks had developed fuel leaks due to poor workmanship on them , HAL seems to have fixed that issue and hope fully those issues will not surface in new drop tanks .
Eighth Requirement will be new Radome with better make for improved radar performance , ADA already has asked for Expression Of Interest' [EOI] for the 'Design, Development and Manufacture of new Radome for LCA , ADA will test new radome for performance improvement with its own currently used radome and if New Radome is found Better only then it will assign a Indian production agency to manufacturing them .
Ninth improvement asked by IAF is new cooling system for Brakes and last task for FOC will be to clear some new air to Ground PGMS and un guided bombs which according to sources will be covered under new weapons tests to be conducted soon

recent report indicates almost half of the FOC parameters were already completed by now,

And AOA of 24 deg was already achieved in IOC-2 itself,

The fighter can be pressure refuelled with in a few minutes and all internal pumping for REfuelling probe are complets , as tejas has cleared the wake peentration tests no serious issues are expected in IFR,

And for mk-1 the probe is external and only mk-2 is supposed to get internal probe,

Also the reason for the delay in early days of testing was due to lesser number of LSPs , and frequency increased as higher number of LSPs till 8 joined the program,

Due to nuclear test embargoes some equipments from one PV of tejas has to be taken out and fitted on another before every test flight in the earlier days , Such was the state of tejas flight test program resource at the earlier time, which was the major contributor for the slower rate of flights in the 2000-2005 period.

And the FSED phase -2 added it's own delays to the flight test program requiring some wing redesign.

the flawless flight testing extending up to 2500 flights makes it clear that there is no issue with reliability right from the start, So it is wrong to suggest that the reliability of tejas increased over time.the right word is reliability of tejas was demonstrated over time.

prototype of tejas had already gone through testing to establish that they can withstand loads upto 13 gs, So 8G will be mostly related to flight envelope opening up, no problems with the air frame are expected,

Also super sonic drop tank design has nothing to do with tejas airframe.

According to release to service documents for IOC-2 brake system has met the requirements of IAF.g

 

[A chauhan]

Well this question is boggling my mind for at least 3 years, what aircrafts could be replaced by LCA Tejas mkI/II ? I was thinking to open a separate thread for discussing it but I asked it here

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Light single engine fighters such as MIG-21/23/27, MK2 may replace Jags as well ..

IAF committed to induct 14 squadrons of Tejas, That is nearly 300 fighters ..

Well this question is boggling my mind for at least 3 years, what aircrafts could be replaced by LCA Tejas mkI/II ? I was thinking to open a separate thread for discussing it but I asked it here

 

[Kunal Biswas]

IAF will buy 14 Tejas squadrons, lowering costs

Defence Minister AK Antony declared that 200 Tejas fighters would eventually enter combat service. Today, that figure quietly swelled to well above 300, with the government indicating that the IAF would have at least 14 Tejas squadrons.

Each IAF combat squadron has 21 fighter aircraft; 14 squadrons add up to 294 Tejas fighters. The 21 fighters include 16 frontline, single-seat fighters, 2 twin-seat trainers and 3 reserve aircraft to make up losses in war.

In a written statement tabled in the Lok Sabha on Monday, February 10, Antony's deputy, Jitendra Singh stated, "The MiG-21 and MiG-27 aircrafts of the IAF have already been upgraded and currently equip 14 combat squadrons. These aircraft, however, are planned for being phased out over the next few years and will be replaced by the LCA."

Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd, which manufactures the Tejas, has quoted Rs 162 crore per fighter as its latest price. Amortising the entire development cost on the envisioned 344 fighters (IAF: 294; Navy: 50), the Tejas would cost Rs 209 crore ($33.5 million) per fighter.

In comparison, the IAF's Mirage 2000 fighters, which were bought in the 1980s, are currently being upgraded for $45 million per aircraft. IAF pilots that test-fly the Tejas Mark I find it qualitatively superior to the Mirage 2000.

The heavier Sukhoi-30MKI costs more than Rs 400 crore ($65 million) each. And the Rafale, which is currently being negotiated with Dassault, is pegged at Rs 750-850 crore ($120-140 million) per fighter.

Source : Broadsword: IAF will buy 14 Tejas squadrons, lowering costs

 

[jmj_overlord]

IAF will buy 14 Tejas squadrons, lowering costs



Source : Broadsword: IAF will buy 14 Tejas squadrons, lowering costs

a very good news. At last an ideal replacement for the ageing fighters of indian airforce. Approximately when will the FOC be obtained ?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its not a 6 barrel, But a twin barrel 23mm, The cannon is lightest than any-other cannon cannon operated by any modern 4.5gen fighter, Some specs and photo..

The Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-23 (ГШ-23) is a twin-barreled 23 mm autocannon, The GSh-23 works on the Gast Gun principle developed by German engineer Karl Gast of the Vorwerk company. It is a twin-barreled weapon in which the firing action of one barrel operates the mechanism of the other. It provides a much faster rate of fire for lower mechanical wear than a single-barrel weapon, It had the unusual ability to fire infrared flares and chaff rounds, allowing it to function as both a weapon and a dispenser of anti-missile countermeasures, Its perhaps one of the most lightest Cannon at weight At 50kg mounted on a modern fighter, It has a rate of fire 3,600 rounds/min, The cannon is Manufactured at Ordnance Factory Tiruchirappalli India..

Tejas FOC : Miles to go | idrw.org

to integrate Russian made Powerful, fast-firing six-barrelled Gryazev-shipunov GSH-23mm cannon .

 

[Kunal Biswas]

End of 2014 or early 2015 ..

a very good news. At last an ideal replacement for the ageing fighters of indian airforce. Approximately when will the FOC be obtained ?

 

[proud_indian]

Official Updated LCA Tejas Mk.2 Schematics, First Flight Target 2017

Livefist: Official Updated LCA Tejas Mk.2 Schematics, First Flight Target 2017

 

[Sridhar]

· 2490th flight on 17 Feb
TD1 : 233, PV1: 242, PV3: 381, LSP1: 74. LSP3: 189, LSP5: 246, TD2 : 305, PV2: 222, PV5: 36, LSP2: 290, LSP4: 110, LSP7: 77, NP1: 12, LSP8 : 73

2491th flight on 19 Feb
TD1 : 233, PV1: 242, PV3: 381, LSP1: 74. LSP3: 190, LSP5: 246, TD2 : 305, PV2: 222, PV5: 36, LSP2: 290, LSP4: 110, LSP7: 77, NP1: 12, LSP8 : 73