ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Twinblade]

Please tell me ...In the Above Picture these are all 1200Ltr tanks or 800ltr Tanks

1200 liter tanks.

 

[SajeevJino]

1200 liter tanks.

So from indranilroy's Post

Total fuel: 2 X 1200 ltr tanks and about 2600 kg of internal fuel = approx. 4600 kg

1. SFC for military thrust = approx. 84 (kg/kN-hr) .
2. Maximum military thrust = approx. 54 kN.
3. Therefore, the rate of fuel consumption at this speed = approx. 54 kN * 84 kg/(KN-hr) = approx. 4536 kg/hr.

So Flying hour is >2 Hours and Ferry Range about 1700 KMs under Cruise Condition ...and Endurance with maximum Speed means only one Hour



I think He was correct about 1700KM range ( 2hour in the Air ) is with the 2x1200ltr tanks

 

[makmohan]

Developmental Cost of LCA Project | idrw.org

 

[Twinblade]

So from indranilroy's Post

Total fuel: 2 X 1200 ltr tanks and about 2600 kg of internal fuel = approx. 4600 kg

1. SFC for military thrust = approx. 84 (kg/kN-hr) .
2. Maximum military thrust = approx. 54 kN.
3. Therefore, the rate of fuel consumption at this speed = approx. 54 kN * 84 kg/(KN-hr) = approx. 4536 kg/hr.

So Flying hour is >2 Hours and Ferry Range about 1700 KMs under Cruise Condition ...and Endurance with maximum Speed means only one Hour



I think He was correct about 1700KM range ( 2hour in the Air ) is with the 2x1200ltr tanks

There is a fallacy in your post. You have calculated the endurance as a function of maximum military thrust, while the aircraft would be flying on a fraction of military thrust most of the time. Secondly, the aircraft would be flying at cruise speeds just below transonic most of the time (roughly 0.8 mach or almost 1000Km/hr) at which they derive maximum fuel efficiency. So if by maximum military thrust the aircraft fuel will last for two hours, the aircraft fuel will last much longer at cruising speeds, hence the ferry range (which is calculated at the most efficient flight profile) would be much more in excess of the 1700 Km figure you are coming to. The fighters of this class have a ferry range in excess of 3000 km with three external fuel tanks.

 

[Free Karma]

HAL to deliver two Tejas to IAF by March-end - The Hindu

Indigenous regional transport aircraft is the next aim, said the architect of Tejas, the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), Kota Harinarayana, who now holds the D.S. Kothari Chair at Aeronautical Development Agency, Bangalore. Dr. Harinarayana hails from Berhampur in Odisha and was on a visit to his home State and town.

Speaking to newsmen during an informal chat in the city, Dr. Harinarayana said now his dream was research in the field of the regional transport aircraft, so that air communication could have greater reach and smaller destinations could get connected by air traffic. The project to develop indigenous regional transport aircraft was expected to cost around Rs. 5,000 crore. Dr. Harinarayana hoped that the coming new government at the Centre would approve the project.

The project envisions building up aircrafts suitable for air traffic inside the country. Dr. Harinarayana said it should have 70 to 100 passenger carrying capacity. There should be extra thrust on making this proposed project easy to manage with cheaper operational cost and most important was it should be able to operate from small air fields, he added.

Speaking on the LCA Tejas, he said by end of March Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) would deliver two Tejas to Indian Air Force. Next year six more LCA would be delivered. He said the Indian Navy has also placed orders to procure Tejas. He said they were also trying to develop a more powerful engine that would power the second variant Tejas Mark II, which may take few more years. "Our team is also making efforts to prepare indigenous mature engines for our LCA, which may take another five to six years. As the Tejas is a single engine aircraft, no chances can be taken," he said.

He said radar was incorporated in the Tejas to serve as jamming equipment and anti-jamming equipment to dodge the enemy. "We want to reduce the radar signature of the Tejas as much as possible," he said. Apart from it, the Tejas would be attached with precision guided missiles and bombs.

Speaking on the state of infrastructure for research and development in aviation in India, Dr. Harinarayana said it was on par with countries of Europe but yet to reach the standards of United States of America (USA), which has mastered stealth technology. "Our next generation aircraft may have stealth technology," he said.

 

[rahulrds1]

Developmental Cost of LCA Project | idrw.org, Developmental Cost of LCA Project | idrw.org

Same link with detail,

Developmental cost of Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), Tejas is Rs.7965.56 Crore ($1.09 Billion)including building of 15 aircraft and creation of infrastructure for production . This compares with the developmental cost of JAS 39 NG Grippen is $1.80 Billion for developing 5 Proto Vehicles.

production cost as well as life cycle cost of LCA Tejas will be comparatively lower to that of any other comparable class of aircraft.

This information was given by Defence Minister Shri AK Antony in a written reply to Shri S Thangavelu in Rajya Sabha today(12-Feb-2014).

source : -Press Information Bureau,Government of India,Ministry of Defense
Print Release

 

[kseeker]

Tejas project to cost Rs 55,000 crore - The Times of India

NEW DELHI: The Tejas light combat aircraft programme will end up costing India well over Rs 55,000 crore at the very least. The overall developmental cost of the home-grown fighter, which remains a critical operational necessity despite still being in the making after 30 years, currently stands at Rs 17,269 crore.

Then, the production cost of each Tejas will conservatively be around Rs 220 crore. If as per the existing plan, IAF goes in for 120 fighters and the Navy for 50, it adds up to Rs 37,440 crore. The defence ministry till now has approved orders for 20 Tejas jets in "initial operational clearance (IOC)" configuration for Rs 2,813 crore for IAF, and another 20 in final FOC configuration for Rs 5,989 crore.

IAF currently has 10 ageing MiG-21 squadrons (each with 20-21 jets) and four MiG-27 ones. They are to be replaced by six squadrons of Tejas and another six under the almost $20 billion MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) project for which 126 French Rafale jets are under consideration.

Confirming what TOI had reported last year, defence minister A K Antony gave some indication of all this in Parliament on Wednesday by holding that the developmental cost of Tejas, including the IAF and naval variants, stands at Rs 14,033 crore as of now.

But he did not include the Rs 2,839 crore spent on trying to develop the Kaveri aeroengine, which has failed to materialise. So, India is going to power its fighters with American GE-404 engines (two Tejas Mark-I squadrons), and the more powerful GE F-414 engines (four Tejas Mark-II squadrons). He also did not factor in Rs 396 crore sanctioned for "development of indigenous technologies for LCA".

The first Tejas (IOC) squadron will be fully in place at the Sulur airbase in Tamil Nadu only by 2016-2017, while the second one of FOC will come thereafter. The four Tejas Mark-II squadrons, in turn, will only start to come in from 2021-2022 onwards.

Antony, however, said the Phase-I and II development cost of Tejas stood at Rs 7,965 ($1.09 billion), including building of 15 aircraft and creation of infrastructure for production of eight aircraft per annum. "This compares with the developmental cost of (Swedish) JAS-39NG Grippen at $1.08 billion for developing five proto vehicles," he said.

"Tejas has approximately 60% indigenous content. As a result, production cost as well as life cycle costs of Tejas will be comparatively lower to that of any other comparable class of aircraft," he added.

 

[rvjpheonix]

Tejas project to cost Rs 55,000 crore - The Times of India

NEW DELHI: The Tejas light combat aircraft programme will end up costing India well over Rs 55,000 crore at the very least. The overall developmental cost of the home-grown fighter, which remains a critical operational necessity despite still being in the making after 30 years, currently stands at Rs 17,269 crore.

Then, the production cost of each Tejas will conservatively be around Rs 220 crore. If as per the existing plan, IAF goes in for 120 fighters and the Navy for 50, it adds up to Rs 37,440 crore. The defence ministry till now has approved orders for 20 Tejas jets in "initial operational clearance (IOC)" configuration for Rs 2,813 crore for IAF, and another 20 in final FOC configuration for Rs 5,989 crore.

IAF currently has 10 ageing MiG-21 squadrons (each with 20-21 jets) and four MiG-27 ones. They are to be replaced by six squadrons of Tejas and another six under the almost $20 billion MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) project for which 126 French Rafale jets are under consideration.

Confirming what TOI had reported last year, defence minister A K Antony gave some indication of all this in Parliament on Wednesday by holding that the developmental cost of Tejas, including the IAF and naval variants, stands at Rs 14,033 crore as of now.

But he did not include the Rs 2,839 crore spent on trying to develop the Kaveri aeroengine, which has failed to materialise. So, India is going to power its fighters with American GE-404 engines (two Tejas Mark-I squadrons), and the more powerful GE F-414 engines (four Tejas Mark-II squadrons). He also did not factor in Rs 396 crore sanctioned for "development of indigenous technologies for LCA".

The first Tejas (IOC) squadron will be fully in place at the Sulur airbase in Tamil Nadu only by 2016-2017, while the second one of FOC will come thereafter. The four Tejas Mark-II squadrons, in turn, will only start to come in from 2021-2022 onwards.

Antony, however, said the Phase-I and II development cost of Tejas stood at Rs 7,965 ($1.09 billion), including building of 15 aircraft and creation of infrastructure for production of eight aircraft per annum. "This compares with the developmental cost of (Swedish) JAS-39NG Grippen at $1.08 billion for developing five proto vehicles," he said.

"Tejas has approximately 60% indigenous content. As a result, production cost as well as life cycle costs of Tejas will be comparatively lower to that of any other comparable class of aircraft," he added.

Just stop posting this toilet paper rajat pandits articles. Just look at the tone f the article. An average layman will feel like he is being looted!

 

[kseeker]

Just stop posting this toilet paper rajat pandits articles. Just look at the tone f the article. An average layman will feel like he is being looted!

Unfortunately, these toilet paper articles are published on mainstream tabloids, I or you, even if we want, cannot stop them from reaching to mass!

 

[RajeevKr]

To make things clearer, I am reproducing the questions and answers to understand the context in which these figures were quoted

"MINISTRY OF DEFENCE
UNSTARRED QUESTION NO . 375
-ANSWERED ON 07.08.2013
Increase in operational cost of Tejas LCA
Qno. 375 SHRI S. THANGAVELU
Will the Minister of DEFENCE be pleased to state :-
QUESTION
(a) whether it is a fact that the Tejas already three decades in the making, is not likely to become fully combat worthy even in 2015;

(b) if so, the reasons therefor;

(c) whether it is also a fact that the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft project was first sanctioned in 1983 at a cost of `560 crore to replace the ageing MiG-21s, is now estimated to cost more than `25,000 crore; and

(d) if so, the details thereof?


ANSWER

MINISTER OF DEFENCE
(SHRI A.K. ANTONY)

(a) & (b): No, Sir. Initial Operational Clearance (IOC-1) for Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), Tejas has already been obtained in January 2011. Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) are working towards meeting planned schedules for IOC-2 by end of 2013 and Final Operational Clearance (FOC) by end of 2014 to make Tejas fully combat worthy.

(c) & (d): Project Definition Phase (PDP) for development of LCA was sanctioned in August 1983 at a cost of `560 Cr. After completion of PDP, Full Scale Engineering Development (FSED) Programme Phase-I was sanctioned in April 1993 at a cost of `2188 Cr (including PDP cost `560 Cr) with increased scope. FSED Programme Phase-I was successfully completed in March 2004 and technology was demonstrated. FSED Programme Phase-II was sanctioned in November 2001 at a cost of `3301.78 Cr to build 3 prototypes, 8 Limited Series Production (LSP) aircraft and establish infrastructure for producing 8 aircraft per year. Additional sanction of `2475.78 Cr was given to meet the financial requirements of FSED Programme Phase-II for induction into Indian Air Force by obtaining IOC and FOC. The total sanctioned cost for development of LCA, Tejas (PDP + FSED Phase-I + FSED Phase-II) is `7965.56 Cr."
*************************************************************************************************************************************************

"MINISTRY OF DEFENCE
UNSTARRED QUESTION NO . 2216
-ANSWERED ON 12.02.2014
Developmental cost of LCA project
Qno. 2216 SHRI S. THANGAVELU
Will the Minister of DEFENCE be pleased to state :-
QUESTION
(a) whether it is a fact that Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) project was cheaper than developmental costs of other fighters, if so, the details thereof;

(b) whether it is also a fact that the ongoing LCA programme comes with a ` 14,000 crore tag including the developmental versions and the four Indian Air Force and Navy variants; and

(c) if so, the details thereof?


ANSWER

MINISTER OF DEFENCE
(SHRI A.K. ANTONY)

(a) Yes, Sir. Developmental cost of Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), Tejas is Rs.7965.56 Crore ($1.09 Billion) including building of 15 aircraft and creation of infrastructure for production of 08 aircraft per annum.

This compares with the developmental cost of JAS 39 NG Grippen is $1.80 Billion for developing 5 Proto Vehicles.

LCA, Tejas has approximately 60% indigenous content. As a result, production cost as well as life cycle cost of LCA Tejas will be comparatively lower to that of any other comparable class of aircraft.

(b) & (c): The breakup of LCA, Tejas and its Naval variants is as follows:

Programme
Cost (Rs. in Crore)
• Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Phase-I 2188.00
• Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Phase-II 5777.56
• Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Phase-III 2431.55
• LCA Navy Mk-1 1714.98
• LCA Navy Mk-2 1921.11

Total 14033.2"

The reference makes it clear that till now only Rs.7965.56 have been sanctioned which have covered in Phase I+Phase II of LCA. IMHO Phase III will probably cover development cost of LCA-MKII.

 

[ersakthivel]

The Beta Coefficient...: Search results for lca

Some interesting statements on combat range of tejas in different profiles, presented by Vivek Ahuja

Low altitude air space penetration flight profile (4x 250 kg bombs, fuel max internal and all available external)combat radius of 700 Km,

high altitude PGM attack profile (2 LGBs , all available external and internal fuel)- a combat radius of 1200 Km,

HAL gives a radius of action up to 500 Km for tejas, but does not specifies the fuel or weapon combo along with flight altitude,

Mirage-2000 has a fuel fraction of around 30 percent similar to tejas,

So I think there won't be any significant difference combat range between the two fighters if similar altitude and roles are assigned with optimum load capacity for each fighter,

needs some clarification as well,

 

[ersakthivel]

Confirming what TOI had reported last year, defence minister A K Antony gave some indication of all this in Parliament on Wednesday by holding that the developmental cost of Tejas, including the IAF and naval variants, stands at Rs 14,033 crore as of now.

The flight control laws developed by ADA which consumed most of the first 500 flights of tejas prototypes will be a common database for all RSS delta fighters to be developed by ADA in future,

Also the composite tech developed by NAL for tejas is being used on Su-30 MKi local production models and is going to be used on AMCA and FGFA as well,

Also the avionics effort of tejas by DARE resulted in india exporting of 64 sets Avionic equipment sets to russian air force Su-30 SM models itsel, besides providing the avionic suit for a whole lot of IAF fighters like Su-30 MKI and Jag updates,

So if we deduct all these amounts that would have been spent by HAL had tejas program was not initiated , we can conclude that tejas development cost is a tiny fraction of the 14000 cr mentioned above,

Rs 2,839 crore was spent on developing the Kaveri aeroengine,

the engine is going to power naval ships, AURA UCAVs and evolved k-10 version will also power AMCA , So its cost too should be spread over all these programs to arrive at real cost,

 

[Sridhar]

PV-1, but plans could have changed.

TD1,TD2,PV1,PV2 all 4 are grounded.

 

[Twinblade]

TD1,TD2,PV1,PV2 all 4 are grounded.

I know, but the new EW suite wasn't part of the original plan, so no active prototypes could be pulled out of testing schedule for a retrofit. Hence they had to do it on a grounded vehicle which could be put back into air again.

 

[Abhi9]

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Neat work !

 

[Kyubi]

Neat work !

What about the dent on the left side of Metal shroud that is covering the co-pilot instrument panel

 

[rvjpheonix]

What is the SFC of m88 under full militiary thrust and optimum conditions vis ai vis the F 404 ? Anybody got any data?

 

[rvjpheonix]

What is the SFC of m88 under full militiary thrust and optimum conditions vis ai vis the F 404 ? Anybody got any data?

@Twinblade @p2prada

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I was impressed by the layout of the MFD and cockpit, Did not notice the dent ..

As its a prototype, It can be understood, Hope not the same in production models ..

What about the dent on the left side of Metal shroud that is covering the co-pilot instrument panel