ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Rahul Singh]

Paki sleuths will send some pilots to fly them, what is the matter then to upgrade them. We should just call some here to train them on the whole line at TACDE.

Similarly we can go to Mayanmar and find out what FC-20 Banadar is exactly. Furthermore PLAAF trains PAF extensively against Flankers. So what you can do about that.

Anyway any Tejas that will exported will be export only version. Quite capable but different to IAF's version.

 

[Batfan]

Similarly we can go to Mayanmar and find out what FC-20 Banadar is exactly. Furthermore PLAAF trains PAF extensively against Flankers. So what you can do about that.

Anyway any Tejas that will exported will be export only version. Quite capable but different to IAF's version.

PLAAF flankers are way different than IAF flankers. Plus it will be years before we start tejas export as IAF will be first to recieve.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[Rahul Singh]

PLAAF flankers are way different than IAF flankers.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

Aerodynamically Indian flankers are similar to SU-33 which China produces by name J-15. And BTW who said exported version of Tejas will same equipping IAF?

Plus it will be years before we start tejas export as IAF will be first to recieve.

Try tellng this to Defence Minister who is already talking about exporting Tejas and have mandated quota for meeting small requirement and additional capacity for larger orders.

Exporting weapons is more about strategic relationship than money. Definitely DM knows it.

 

[tejas warrior]

Isn't it Beautiful !!

The last two corners of the square loop, Tejas demonstrated at Bahrain International Air Show in this January. The smoke-trail reveal lots of details on the manoeuvre..

Jai Hind..

#TejasOfficialArchive #Tejas_LCA #NFTC #ADA #IADN

Please share the Post only with the Tags and Write Up. Kindly do not Edit or Copy this Photo. Copyright: #ADA

 

[Rahul Singh]

Isn't it Beautiful !!

The last two corners of the square loop, Tejas demonstrated at Bahrain International Air Show in this January. The smoke-trail reveal lots of details on the manoeuvre..

Jai Hind..

#TejasOfficialArchive #Tejas_LCA #NFTC #ADA #IADN

Please share the Post only with the Tags and Write Up. Kindly do not Edit or Copy this Photo. Copyright: #ADA

View attachment 11874

Looking at the corner one can not resist exclaiming, that's +8g!

 

[Indx TechStyle]

IDN TAKE: Why Building A Twin-Engine LCA Makes Sense

The Rafale deal had lumbered on for years, the fundamental mistake made by our policy makers was to pursue a full-fledged technology transfer regime for the fighter, instead of allowing complete manufacture in France which would have helped in its accelerated delivery at a significantly lower price point. Thankfully, PM Modi announced a government to government (G2G) purchase of 36 Rafales, the PM got the job done and he did what he had to do to respond to the urgency of the situation. This gives the IAF breathing room to make a proper choice about the long term.

The IAF needs to reach the 45 squadrons mark as soon as possible. That 45 squadrons should consist of a good mix of heavy, medium and light aircraft. The Sukhoi Su-30MKI is the heavy aircraft and is supposed to reach a total number of 272 which would comprise of 15 squadrons but one must take into consideration periodic crashes and low availability due to regular maintenance. The Rafale and Mig-29 would be the medium jets for about 8-10 squadrons. Then a single engine fighter including 60 Mirage-2000 and new TEJAS Mk-II would be the light aircraft and should be some 20 squadrons in total. This last category includes the Mig-21 and Mig-27 which will be phased out in the next few years. So the need is urgent, to say the least.

The LCA Tejas Mark-I in its current form is not fully operational so the IAF may not depend upon it and so the Mark-I in the IAF would be 2 squadrons at the most. Essentially the Air Force is pinning its hopes on the upgraded Mark-II form which has an upgraded engine providing more power, advanced avionics, a contemporary EW suite, but this version will not be available for production till about 2019-20.

Sweden's SAAB has offered to help India with fighter development of single-engine fighters for the IAF. However, in the end, the IAF will wind up with a product that it no longer wants and which will cost a hell of a lot more than it wanted to spend as a force multiplier. Simply put, in the real world if the Air Force wants something cheap then we have to build an indigenous fighter.

Now, let us see what the problem really is, every defense analyst seems to believe that the light combat aircraft has to be a single-engine combat fighter. That is the wrong problem to solve. The real reason the TEJAS was not successful is that it is horribly underpowered. HAL does not have as much experience as SAAB in designing fighter jets and the proof is that the TEJAS Mark-I weighs more than the comparable SAAB Gripen and is less aerodynamic. Now if we pay SAAB to learn how to improve the TEJAS then we pay a huge amount of money as nothing comes free in this world.

So instead of asking SAAB for help, why don’t we solve the problem ourselves? My contention is that a twin-engine fighter jet can do everything a single engine TEJAS was supposed to do and is a hell of a lot easier to design. If India were to design a larger TEJAS using two GE-F404 engines to power it, the unit cost will be under 50 million and it will work on day one. Buying additional GE-F404 engine will not add to the cost as in the case of F414 engines and GE will be glad to supply the engine as it will add substantial cheer to its balance sheet. I am certain that the very first prototype will do everything better than the TEJAS. We have to bear in mind that AMCA will be a totally independent line of development when compared to the TEJAS.

The advantages of a twin-engine design are many, first, it will have increased speed and maneuverability, the jet will have enhanced range because it can carry more fuel and with refueling, it can be extended to well over 2000 km. It can carry larger combat loads. It is also less susceptible to mechanical failures or combat damage. It can carry larger combat loads. At high altitudes, using two engines will have tremendous supplemental benefits, as losing a single engine jet over water or land is a much more life-threatening experience. System redundancy is a tertiary benefit of multi-engine aircraft, since losing engine results in only a 50% loss in total available thrust, plus redundant generators and hydraulic pumps will allow the aircraft to fly. In addition, having two engines will reduce training losses.

Why does India want to make the twin-engine F-18 Hornet in India when it can design and develop one of its own. Of course, HAL has its hands full with a kichadi of projects that it cannot handle mainly because of its low-tech jigs, archaic production methodologies, inadequate, inefficient, intractable manpower, and dreadful infrastructure nightmares. The judicious solution would be to synergise the manufacture of the new jet to the very nascent private defense industry. ADA will continue to provide state-of-the-art systems and technologies just as in the case with HAL.

TEJAS has provided Indian engineers valuable knowledge and experience to design and build a cutting-edge contemporary fighter, the long gestation period taken to develop the TEJAS will come in handy when designing and manufacturing the twin-engine jet. This invaluable traction should be put to good use. The name of the game is no longer that you have an accumulation of aircraft that are identical, but instead that you have variants each honed for a specific mission.

Admin - IDN

 

[Chinmoy]

IDN TAKE: Why Building A Twin-Engine LCA Makes Sense

Admin - IDN

Just one question.............. How come a twin engine Tejas would be an LCA (LIGHT Combat Aicraft)?????

 

[Defcon 1]

Just one question.............. How come a twin engine Tejas would be an LCA (LIGHT Combat Aicraft)?????

The author is probably suggesting twin engined LCA as a substitute for F18. Without any idea of timelines for such a product. I mean, the development can start at the earliest at 2025, when NLCA Mk2 is complete. Assuming that IAF doesn't ask for a Mk2 version for itself. And even then, it will hog resources required for AMCA project.

 

[Defcon 1]

Try tellng this to Defence Minister who is already talking about exporting Tejas and have mandated quota for meeting small requirement and additional capacity for larger orders.

Exporting weapons is more about strategic relationship than money. Definitely DM knows it.

There is no such quota. Kindly provide a source for the same if you claim otherwise.

 

[Chinmoy]

The author is probably suggesting twin engined LCA as a substitute for F18. Without any idea of timelines for such a product. I mean, the development can start at the earliest at 2025, when NLCA Mk2 is complete. Assuming that IAF doesn't ask for a Mk2 version for itself. And even then, it will hog resources required for AMCA project.

What I mean here is, with twin engine, its not going to be a Light weight fighter. It would move into Medium weight category. Reporters should atleast take these terms into account when reporting or drafting a report.

 

[Rahul Singh]

IDN TAKE: Why Building A Twin-Engine LCA Makes Sense

Admin - IDN

I can write equally long article explaining why we should start AMCA instead of any such adventure.

Just wanna add why NLCA MK-2 in itself is no longer light. And despite the similarity will take more than 7 years from first flight to certification. A twin engine version with each engine delivering 90KN will have no similarity with present Tejas and will be all new aircraft taking no less than 15 years to complete.

IDN would be correct if we were in time around 2005. Today; it's just misadventures.

 

[Pulkit]

@Defcon 1 @Chinmoy
I was not active here for a few weeks can you guys just speed me up if anything important has taken place when it comes to Tejas.

When are we getting the next SP?
Any further delays in terms of getting FOC?
What about testing which was supposed to start this month November of the additional features being incorporated(In flight fueling etc)?

 

[Chinmoy]

@Defcon 1 @Chinmoy
I was not active here for a few weeks can you guys just speed me up if anything important has taken place when it comes to Tejas.

When are we getting the next SP?
Any further delays in terms of getting FOC?
What about testing which was supposed to start this month November of the additional features being incorporated(In flight fueling etc)?

Expect next SP by January.
As of now there is no reported delay in FOC by next year.
LSP 8 has been prepared with fueling probe for in flight fueling. As of now no report is out when the test would be conducted.

 

[Pulkit]

Expect next SP by January.
As of now there is no reported delay in FOC by next year.
LSP 8 has been prepared with fueling probe for in flight fueling. As of now no report is out when the test would be conducted.

thanks mate...
Even if I log into DFI after one year and inquire the same thing I am 100% sure I will be getting the same response,.....
Were they not meant to deliver 4 SP by the end of this year.
FOC Next Year... That next year never comes.

And any updates on Progress of HAL on Tejas?

Sorry to ask so many question just catching up .....

@Defcon 1

 

[Chinmoy]

thanks mate...
Even if I log into DFI after one year and inquire the same thing I am 100% sure I will be getting the same response,.....
Were they not meant to deliver 4 SP by the end of this year.
FOC Next Year... That next year never comes.

And any updates on Progress of HAL on Tejas?

Sorry to ask so many question just catching up .....

@Defcon 1

They are just doing the very thing. Already 3 SPs were delivered and 4th SP is on schedule. Remember that SP3 has been delivered on October. So another SP in next 3 month. They are right on schedule.

FOC has been jointly delayed by HAL,ADA and IAF. Its not that HAL has not met the deadline, its IAF wanting few more changes and weapon test to incorporate in FOC. I am just waiting for the day when IAF would ask Tejas to fire MICA as fart of FOC.

As far as progress of HAL is concerned, they are busy with AESA radar ground testing as it is a must for FOC in 2017.

 

[republic_roi97]

As far as progress of HAL is concerned, they are busy with AESA radar ground testing as it is a must for FOC in 2017.

Which one the EL/M 2052 derivative or Uttam ??

 

[Chinmoy]

Which one the EL/M 2052 derivative or Uttam ??

EL/M- 2052......

Please enter a message with at least 30 characters.

 

[Defcon 1]

thanks mate...
Even if I log into DFI after one year and inquire the same thing I am 100% sure I will be getting the same response,.....
Were they not meant to deliver 4 SP by the end of this year.
FOC Next Year... That next year never comes.

And any updates on Progress of HAL on Tejas?

Sorry to ask so many question just catching up .....

@Defcon 1

The LCA program is more or less set in stone now. I doubt you will be hearing anything new even if you login in 2020.

HAL is expected to deliver 6 SPs by mid of next year. And then rate of 8 SP's per should continue till 2020 when it will be increased to 16 SPs per year and Mk1A enters production.

Yes FOC has been delayed, but thats just expected of ADA. Regardless, with BVR fired and IFR probe integration almost complete, there are no big ticket pending items, so I don't expect any further delays now.

Also, AESA is not a FOC requirement. It is a requirement for Mk1A. The said AESA radar will be EL/M 2052 which may be replaced by Uttam AESA in later models.

IAF's FOC parameters haven't changed for years. ADA is just incapable of meeting the basic requirements on time.

 

[Pulkit]

They are just doing the very thing. Already 3 SPs were delivered and 4th SP is on schedule. Remember that SP3 has been delivered on October. So another SP in next 3 month. They are right on schedule.

FOC has been jointly delayed by HAL,ADA and IAF. Its not that HAL has not met the deadline, its IAF wanting few more changes and weapon test to incorporate in FOC. I am just waiting for the day when IAF would ask Tejas to fire MICA as fart of FOC.

As far as progress of HAL is concerned, they are busy with AESA radar ground testing as it is a must for FOC in 2017.

The SP being delivered till now 3 were not on schedule from the very beginning.
So saying that 4th one is on schedule cannot be true.

FOC is delayed due to all the parties involved and i agree that IAF may come up with one thing or another just to stall the FOC.

When I asked about HAL I meant from the point of view of upgraded Tejas only.

The LCA program is more or less set in stone now. I doubt you will be hearing anything new even if you login in 2020.

HAL is expected to deliver 6 SPs by mid of next year. And then rate of 8 SP's per should continue till 2020 when it will be increased to 16 SPs per year and Mk1A enters production.

Yes FOC has been delayed, but thats just expected of ADA. Regardless, with BVR fired and IFR probe integration almost complete, there are no big ticket pending items, so I don't expect any further delays now.

Also, AESA is not a FOC requirement. It is a requirement for Mk1A. The said AESA radar will be EL/M 2052 which may be replaced by Uttam AESA in later models.

IAF's FOC parameters haven't changed for years. ADA is just incapable of meeting the basic requirements on time.

hahaha..... No wonder if AMCA and FGFA never move outside drawing boards..

On delays ... Fingers Crossed though I can bet it will be further delayed.
IAF will surely come up with a plan to further delay it and ADA HAL will totally support them in this action....

IAF's FOC parameters haven't changed for years

 

[IndianHawk]

The SP being delivered till now 3 were not on schedule from the very beginning.
So saying that 4th one is on schedule cannot be true.

FOC is delayed due to all the parties involved and i agree that IAF may come up with one thing or another just to stall the FOC.

When I asked about HAL I meant from the point of view of upgraded Tejas only.


hahaha..... No wonder if AMCA and FGFA never move outside drawing boards..

On delays ... Fingers Crossed though I can bet it will be further delayed.
IAF will surely come up with a plan to further delay it and ADA HAL will totally support them in this action....

Did you just came to rant about it!!

Orders for LCA are secured. Squadron has been raised already. Yes there are delays but the program is secured already.