ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
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ersakthivel

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Tweeted same to our DM..

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a rel="nofollow" href="https://twitter.com/manoharparrikar">@manoharparrikar</a> What is causing delay in delivery of Tejas to IAF? Why is <a rel="nofollow" href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/HAL?src=hash">#HAL</a> unable to stick to delivery plan?</p>— PULKIT BAHL (@PULKITBAHL) <a rel="nofollow" href="https://twitter.com/PULKITBAHL/status/591888289021308929">April 25, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

https://twitter.com/PULKITBAHL/status/591888289021308929

Hope he replies...
The sudden attack on tejas is all backed by G lobby. You can expect a ton of "eggspertise" report each light years from truth in a fortnight to come, !!!!

Please tell our new twitter "eggspert" that until recently HAl was begging for the 1600 crores needed to cobble together brand new high tech tejas production line , at the gates of GOI, IAF and Navy.

ofcourse such "inconvenient truths " are always difficult to discover for our kill tejas, kill HAl guys.

tell the twitter expert that HAL is producing more SU-30 MKis than the rafale produced by Dassaul every year.

Why?

because confirmed 272 orders from IAf means enough justification to sink thousands of cores into Su-30 production lines , because the profit justifies the investment.

it has hundreds of ALH orders too.

Opposed to that it has just 40 tejas mk1 order(with this new fkae in india fever from our DM-Fadnavis duo, the future of 84 tejas mk2 order is also under a cloud now!!!)

So how is HAL going to justify the thousands of crores investments in tejas production lines with just 40 tejas mk1 orders worth around 4000 crores!!!
 
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Pulkit

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The sudden attack on tejas is all backed by G lobby. You can expect a ton of "eggspertise" report each light years from truth in a fortnight to come, !!!!
hmmmm....
the move has been brilliant by them ...
Made in Maharashtra

Really doubt if it will mature.

Modi and Manohar sir have showed it in Rafale deal that they know what they want and how and at what cost so I dont think G lobby will work...
 

archie

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I am doubting a ton right now, Read my two posts on this page.
I have heard about some things about Modi. Some industrialist tried to jump ot of que to get clearence from then then CM Modi.. Apprently Modi took hold of the file and asked the industrialist tell me how you did that or the file never clears.Scondly Modi when he took over 125 Confirmed orders for mk2 (on pvt company line proposal was out no one took it ) was hinted but nothing worked

The DM that i am gauging is based on the leadership of the Govt.. Either way we need to balance Indian fighters Vs made in India
I am only Hoping LCA Succeds .

From a Buyers pespective I would rather put more money on MK2 rather than MK1. seeing that its way closer to completion. Reason being the buyer has to use the aircraft for atlest 20 years.

My hope is one way or the other atleast 200 Indian aircraft it can kick off major aviation industry.
 

Pulkit

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@Kunal Biswas

IAF to Get 4 More Tejas by End of This Fiscal: National Aerospace Laboratories | idrw.org

The Indian Air Force is likely to get four more indigenously made light combat aircraft Tejas by the end of the current financial year from Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, National Aerospace Laboratories' Director Shyam Chetty said here today.
"The four aircraft may adhere to international standards on end-to-end accuracy," Chetty said, adding, further research was on to meet the parameters stipulated by the IAF.
IAF had some concerns with Tejas's end-to-end accuracy and efforts have been made to rectify it, he said speaking to reporters on the sidelines of the 68th CSIR-Central Leather Research Institute Foundation Day Celebrations here."The Indian Air Force wanted eight aircraft every year. We will be handing them four more aircraft by the end of this financial year," he said.
The country got its first indigenous light combat aircraft Tejas in January this year, three decades after the Centre gave nod for its development.
The aircraft handed over in January could take off with only restricted weaponry and sensors and tests with a full range of weaponry was yet to be done, he added.
"We have missiles from countries like Russia, France, and Israel. We have to integrate them with the [Tejas] aircraft and conduct tests," he said.
Scientists are presently conducting trials for Tejas at the sea-based test facilities at INS Hamsa in Goa. He also referred to some manufacturing issues concerning Tejas.
Is this not a good news?

If this is achieved all the lobbies working against Tejas will be ...... crying out loud ....
 
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Kunal Biswas

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Lets see, I assume this is good news but the production speed need to be increased ..
 

Pulkit

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Lets see, I assume this is good news but the production speed need to be increased ..
I thought they were targetting two more this year but if they are targetting 4 more its great.

This can assure 10 from next year i.e. my estimate of 30-35 till 2018 will be easily achieved.

10-15 delivered per year is not at all a bad production rate.
This will provide good base to Tejas MK2 and Assembly line will be available to it just in time i.e. by 2019.

This also confirm that MOD has been looking into this seriously.

They only thing left to do is to punish the guilty if n only if this is not met.....

Fingers crossed....
 

indiandefencefan

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I thought they were targetting two more this year but if they are targetting 4 more its great.

This can assure 10 from next year i.e. my estimate of 30-35 till 2018 will be easily achieved.

10-15 delivered per year is not at all a bad production rate.
This will provide good base to Tejas MK2 and Assembly line will be available to it just in time i.e. by 2019.

This also confirm that MOD has been looking into this seriously.

They only thing left to do is to punish the guilty if n only if this is not met.....

Fingers crossed....
Personally i think that 10 jets per year is too optimistic ....... around 6-8 jets would be reasonable to assume given the state of aircraft manufacturing in india right now unless they start a second production line.
 

tejas warrior

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Press should have asked National Aerospace Laboratories' Director Shyam Chetty.. and if SP2 is ready which was supposed to be ready by March ??
 

tejas warrior

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It feels these ADA n HAL directors r only fancy in giving speeches and commitment.
Better do the work and then tell media what we hv achieved..
 

Pulkit

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Press should have asked National Aerospace Laboratories' Director Shyam Chetty.. and if SP2 is ready which was supposed to be ready by March ??
It feels these ADA n HAL directors r only fancy in giving speeches and commitment.
Better do the work and then tell media what we hv achieved..
There was a delay in IOC2 which did effect the delivery schedule .
They were supposed to give 6 in first year if the old dead line had been kept.

Once the IOC2 was snatched/grabbed/taken no one was expecting more than 3 aircrafts delivered in this year.

If HAL is saying that they are gonna give 4 more that means total of 5 this year then it is a pretty decent number.


Taking your view into account ... Yes ADA should accelerate there work on Tejas MK2 AND HAL shud focus to find ways to increase production.

As per my knowledge the difference in initiation of production of A/C in 4 months in case of tejas..


That means if Tejas 1 is started in month 1 then Tejas 2 will be started only by month 5.


They need to bring this gap down to one month and that will come only with more production.

+

HAL is also looking to outsource few parts of Tejas to local industry which will also support and inc production rate....

It will be early to say efforts of present DM worked but need to give him some credit for showing the right path..
 

Pulkit

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Personally i think that 10 jets per year is too optimistic ....... around 6-8 jets would be reasonable to assume given the state of aircraft manufacturing in india right now unless they start a second production line.
You are mistaken sir.

10 is not optimistic , The expectation is around 16 per year which I think given the size of order is unreasonable .
HAL is expected to deliver 5 in the current year . Which will be there first.
Production rate is gonna increase from here .

Second line will be required for Tejas MK2 .

IAF needs close to 250 Light combat aircraft .If tejas Mk2 succeeds /meet the requirements then we will need to induct 125 of them by 2025 .
Then we will need a second assembly for faster induction.


Second assembly line can also be promising to attract Exports just in case (best case scenario).
 

indiandefencefan

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You are mistaken sir.

10 is not optimistic , The expectation is around 16 per year which I think given the size of order is unreasonable .
HAL is expected to deliver 5 in the current year . Which will be there first.
Production rate is gonna increase from here .

Second line will be required for Tejas MK2 .

IAF needs close to 250 Light combat aircraft .If tejas Mk2 succeeds /meet the requirements then we will need to induct 125 of them by 2025 .
Then we will need a second assembly for faster induction.


Second assembly line can also be promising to attract Exports just in case (best case scenario).
could be .... however there is no denying that a higher production would be beneficial for us .Lets hope and see what the target for next year is.
 

Punya Pratap

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The article says the jets will be delivered in this FISCAL YEAR and fiscal year will end on 31st March 2016..!!

Very conveniently HAL has added three months more to the production time frame. Last I heard the delay was over the Radome and the IFR and now we hear that it's also do with the built quality.

I wonder whether that highlights the fact that HAL is so used to functioning in the Screw drivery mode that they are all at sea when it comes to building their own jet from nuts and bolts to the flyaway condition. It could also be the reason why IJT is also in the dog house. ... as the saying goes that if you have also copied from your neighbours when giving exams you will flunk when you are on your own!
 

Pulkit

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could be .... however there is no denying that a higher production would be beneficial for us .Lets hope and see what the target for next year is.
True... we need to wait further.....

The article says the jets will be delivered in this FISCAL YEAR and fiscal year will end on 31st March 2016..!!

Very conveniently HAL has added three months more to the production time frame. Last I heard the delay was over the Radome and the IFR and now we hear that it's also do with the built quality.

I wonder whether that highlights the fact that HAL is so used to functioning in the Screw drivery mode that they are all at sea when it comes to building their own jet from nuts and bolts to the flyaway condition. It could also be the reason why IJT is also in the dog house. ... as the saying goes that if you have also copied from your neighbours when giving exams you will flunk when you are on your own!
They were supposed to deliver 6 once the IOC2 is achieved in a year duration.
They have not met that ... True...

Reason as of now is not the quality and the parts availability. It is the issue mainly with how compatible the production line is .
They are still working on that .

I am not defending HAL here .
they have screwed it big time and are digging there own "" by missing all the deadlines set by them.

The good news is ... as I have also stated above.
No one was expecting more than 3 in total and if they are gonna give 5 it will be great.

Just for your info. after that deliveries shud be consistent at an interval of 2-3 months that means atleast 10 a year which is acceptable keeping in mind the order size.

I will be happy if they meet there own target.
 

smestarz

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The issue is simply, G lobby is trying to influence Parrikar through Fadnavis with make G in Nagpur slogan.

This is the first time in the operational history of IAF that a defence minister suddenly "discovers" a need for fighter that is between rafale and tejas!!!!

It is stupid to invent new categories using the figleaf of depleting squadron strength of IAF. First retired IAF higher ups were used by MMRCA lobby to spread the "truth" that with sudden urge to bomb deep into tibet, single engined light fighters are obsolete. Now our DM is loose phrasing a need for another mid tier in IAF between rafale and tejas, where no other fighter other than gripen E has a presence.

So if this need fructifies it is going to be another Goody-Goody government to government deal with a single minded intent to buy gripen E, whose weight has gone above 8 tons!!!

All the while most of the DDM , jour"analists' and IAf retired chair marshaks were bemoaning the under powered tejas!!! How can they now plump for gripen E which will definitely more underpowered than tejas mk2. gripen C is underpowered compared to tejas mk1, In the same way gripen E is underpowered compared to tejas mk2, whose redesign is minimal 0.5 meter fuselage plug, opposed to very detailed redesign of griepen E which has included drag induced fairings to carry extra fuel to compete with rafale and typhoon.

There is no single airforce in the world that operates two types of extremely expensive 4.5th gen fighters such as gripen E and rafale in large number at break your back pricing in high 200 plus numbers(because if gripen is to make in maharastra it will need atleast 150 plus orders, that means parrikar -fadnavis duo is either closing down tejas mk2 program or creating their own make in india all 4.5 the gen IAF , that will be so obsolete 15 years down the line with no single 5th gen fighter ever!!!)

DM has cut down on mountain corps numbers, and rafale numbers citing lack of funds!!!

Gripen too costs more than 100 million dollar per piece. So if 150 grripen E too was bought simultaneously along with 100 odd tejas and 60 plus rafale(another squadron or two follow up order is foregone)

Then where will funds come for AMCA or FGFA?

Gripen E is more souped up with aero parts from all over the world , with even its FBW done in US.

In dog fight what matters is the lift force from low wing loading wing with higher Thrust to weight ratio "in hot 40 plus degree indian hot climate", Gripen C or E has no certified advantage over the corresponding tejas variant that was clearly demonstrated to indian public in any air show.

What is even more pathetic is Gripen E is supposed to get its IOC only in 2019. SO only then we can now its real strength.

And Tejas was given a bigger radome dia than gripen E and rafale as per the wishes of IAF, But till now IAF hasn't even shown the least inclination to float a proposal to buy a bigger off the shelf ASEA radar version for tejas , that can be more powerful than both gripen E and rafale and mate it with future meteor !!!

Why?

If the BVR and radar are the issue then IAF is free to float the idea like that. or

whether our IIT educated DM doesn't know that tejas has the physical dimension to port a ASEA radar and highest possible range BVR ?

Why he didn't he unveil his famous make in india initiative to foreign radar makers citing 200 plus orders from tejas fleet and asked them to adopt a ASEA radar that is bigger and powerful than rafale and gripen E?

if BVR is obsolete then F-35, F-22, J-20, J-31, PAKFA are all obsolete, Because their main USP is BVR . Stealth is of little use without BVR.

Even if a rafale from enemy fleet enters indian airspace for strike role, it is sure going to be discovered by indian AWACS. And if any other fighter from IAf is asked to scramble and fires a BVR on rafale the first prerequisite for enemy rafale is to drop its strike loads of bombs and head home, because such costly advance fighters how omni role they can be , can not pull their evasive Gs with strike loads.

So effectively their mission is oover with millions of dollars strike package dropped away from intended target
.

Then they can not engage in a fight in enemy teritory with three times more in number tejas fleet , trying to beat them in BVR and dog fight.

That is out of the question, because Indian airspace is defended by AWACS, SAMs and 4.5 the gen low clean config RCS fighter like tejas in high hundreds.

When it come to gripen E it is even more laughable. Gripen E may have marginally superiority over tejas(nothing demonstrated in indian conditions, all only in impractical brochure BS). But it is close to thrice the cost of tejas.


So if IAF is given the same budget , it can field thrice the tejas number compared to one third gripen E number.

Because for the "famous screw diriver TOT" under the even more famous "Fake In India " Gripen E line , cost will only be 100 plus million dollar for each gripen E opposed to 26 million dollar for tejas!!

All assembled by any one of those dalals in indian stock market , in an even more famous "fake In India " private sector production line, with zero knowledge.!!!!

First let this private sector guys design a decent assault rifle and pistol for IA with as much technical help from abroad and prove its worth, then lets think about making true blue 4.5 the gen fighter , and getting their "fake TOT"

A sick joke is being played on IAF by G lobby who have the ear of fadnavis.

i dont know how far this is gong to go?
Gripen is one of the best planes available. Tejas II is potentially much better than Gripen based on various specifications, but one cannot deny that SAAB spends more money on R&D as compared to DRDO and HAL.
Firstly I am against giving categories of weight, specially IAF does not require any weight category between Light and medium heavy. The requirement are based on the roles., Whatever the roles that IAF has for Rafale, Su-30 MKI can do it and Brahmos A, it can do more better than Brahmos because Rafale will not be able to carry Brahmos A or Nirbhay missiles.

Now since our defence minister did invent another weight class between Tejas and Rafale (so as to suggest Gripen or F-16) one of the simpler idea would be to develop CFTs, adding the CFTs on Tejas will give two things
a) Have the same basic plane
b) The CFTs can be put on or removed as per the mission for CAP there is no need for the CFTs. for medium range strike they can be put on
c) By adding the CFTS the plane will still remain small but have more weight (what he wants) and get better range (but there would be some penalty of speed and performance)

Rather what I suggest is that we better think of CFTs for both Tejas and Su-30 MKI, having CFTs for Su-30 MKI will improve its range and improve it by 30-40% which is excellent for air dominance fighter which is armed with Long and medium range A2A missles and few A2G missiles thus keeping the centreline pylons free for heavy weapons load
 

sgarg

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Pulkit, HAL has to submit projected production figures to MOD. For LCA, 2 were projected in 14-15 and 6 in 15-16.
If HAL actually delivers 1 in 14-15 and 4 in 15-16; that is a slippage of 3 units already. The delays add up. The issue is when IAF will be able to form the first squadron?
Inability to deliver the aircraft will ultimately play against HAL. HAL needs to focus all its resources on this project and ensure ramp up to 16 as MOD is asking.

China will deliver 50 JF-17 to Pakistan in less than three years.

This kind of slow rate does not bode well for LCA Tejas program.
 
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