ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[zebra7]

Tejas is for A2A and short range bombing. CAS is done by helicopters or other low speed, high mileage planes. Considering the fact that all Indian adversaries - Pakistan and Bangladesh lie just next to the border and are small countries, one can safely say that Tejas can be used to bomb Bangladesh and also most major cities of Pakistan - Islamabad, Rawalpindi, Peshawar, Lahore and Karachi as all of these lie within 300km of Indian border. In addition, entire Pakistan width is 600km from India which makes the requirement of smaller fighter higher to get things done quickly and cheaply

Tejas needs both range for A2G bombing and endurance for A2A role.



The weight of AAM is significantly lower and the diameter much smaller than a LGB or other bombs. So, the racking will not reduce flight performance much. It is not that carrying 14 Astra missile of 155kg + 8 pylons weighing 20kg will hamper the performance of A2A. The overall weght will still be 2.5tons for the payload, which is well within the limits.

If you don't want to add weight at all, then you must fly the plane clean without payload. Tejas is a fighter plane and is meant to carry payload. I don't see why you unnecessarily whine about weight and drag when the increase is minimal? Is Tejas not supposed to carry any load at all? What is the point you are making?

Leave him, he is just a Gripen propagandist with no idea that a pilots are trained for A2A or A2G and the effect on the pilot in 0.5 hour in combat flight. And Tejas now could provide quick tactical interdiction to support land forces with small LGB and asking for the role of Mig 27 with bullet proof canopy tub and starfing 30mm Cannon and rockets in an anti armour operation.

 

[zebra7]

Actually, it is now that india is way stronger than Pakistan. India was never stronger than CHina. China had satellites, ICBM, nuclear submarines, hydrogen bombs by 1974 itself. India did not have any advanced technology of its own in 1980 and was reliant on MiG21 manufacturing from USSR ToT (USSR gave 100% ToT to India). But, otherwise, India was in a very bad shape. That is also why Pakistan acted with impunity in Khalistan war. If India was threateningly strong, Pakistan would have run away

USSR gave us the manufacturing right but never give us the design blue print rather the manufacturing blue print and drawings. It was the British which gave us Gnat design blue print, which led to the development of LCA that's why ADA choose the international/Western specification and not the Russian standards and specification. Funny part is even for Jaguar we have all the jigs and dies to manufactured it but question is did the Russian/Soviets tell us how to design a plane. What did we gain by manufacturing with licence which cost us high cost than off the shelf cost. What would be condition if we would have divert the money we saved over the development and R&d.

 

[Kchontha]

The indeginisation of all the defence related products is the only way to become a militarily self sufficient nation. Nobody will give you the high end defence technology be it Russia or any other Western countries. Therefore all you need to do is pumping in huge amount of funds on defence R&D sector. Otherwise things will remain as it is.

 

[kunal1123]

IDN TAKE: TEJAS To Test Fire DERBY BVR Missile This Week
Monday, April 23, 2018 by Indiandefense News

A TEJAS light fighter seen equipped with the Derby system at the National Flight Test Centre
IDN has learnt from reliable sources that as part of its scheduled weapon trials, preparations are underway to test the Beyond Visual Range DERBY missiles this week at Jamnagar proving grounds. These weapon trials are part of the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) mandate which is likely to be completed by end July this year.
Continuing with its successful stride of production and flight trails in 2017, India's Tejas light fighter achieved a major milestone in February 2016. One of the limited series production (LSP) platforms fired a DERBY Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVRAAM) missile for the first time.

A Fighter Jet sports the Derby Missile
However, during the tests it was noted that the exercise did not yield the expected results as the DERBY missile caused excessive vibrations to the Tejas structure. As per detailed analysis by ADA the problem was found to be caused due to an inherent flaw with the missile and had got nothing to do with the Tejas. However, IDN also learnt that the problems have been sorted out and the Tejas test platform has been tweaked appropriately to accommodate and fire the missiles.

A mock-up of Naval Tejas shown with Derby and Python 5 Missiles at Aero India 2015
Rafael had delivered 100 Python-5 missiles to India however, it is learnt that IAF has abandoned the project (for undisclosed reasons) to equip Indian fighter jets with these missiles.
The Israeli DERBY series of missiles are one of the most advanced AAM systems in the world. The DERBY Beyond-Visual-Range (BVR) Air-To-Air Missile, is a medium-range (~50 km) active-radar seeker missile. Though technically not part of the "Python" family, the missile is basically an enlarged PYTHON-4 with an active-radar seeker. The DERBY BVR missile includes ECCM features. Like the PYTHON short range air-to-air missile, the DERBY has the same canards (wings), warhead, rocket motor design and proximity fuse and a dramatic increase in range. It's launch weight is 118 kg with a range of 63 km.
"Notably, the IAF has procured the DERBY BVR-AAM over the indigenous ASTRA BVRAAM to expedite the induction of TEJAS into its arsenal. The DERBY BVRAAM missile is a tried and tested weapon. The DERBY has a range of 50 km, compared with 80 km of the ASTRA missile." WHAT??????????
Only a handful of missile builders -- in the US, Russia, Europe and China -- have mastered the technologies that go into air-to-air missiles. In September 2017 the defence ministry had formally announced the successful development of the most challenging missile India has developed so far -- the ASTRA. Fired from a fighter aircraft travelling at over 1,000 km an hour, the ASTRA destroys an enemy fighter 65 to 70 km away. The trials conducted off the Odisha coast on September 11 to 14 saw seven ASTRA missiles being fired from a Sukhoi-30MKI (captive flight trials for avionics integration as a part of the test was also successfully conducted) at pilotless aircraft that were designated as targets. All seven ASTRA missiles hit their targets.
The ASTRA is fired from the Russian Vympel launcher -- a rail under a fighter aircraft's wing from which the missile hangs. The Vympel launcher is integrated with all four of India's current generation fighters -- the Su-30MKI, MiG-29, Mirage 2000 and the Tejas -- enabling the ASTRA to be fired from all of them.
In a significant advancement in the quest for indigenisation, two of the seven Astra missiles tested had undergone a crucial modification. The very heart of their ability to hunt down aircraft in the air, their seeker, had been replaced. The existing Russian Agat 9B1103M active radar seeker used on the Astra had been replaced with an Indian Ku-band seeker developed by the DRDO’s Research Centre Imarat (RCI) in Hyderabad.
Sukhoi Su-30MKI firing the air-to-air ASTRA missile during weapons trials

Indian engineers have already integrated & tested the previous generation of DERBY missiles on the Tejas Mk-1 jet, which was demonstrated for the first time in the Iron fist 2016 Exercise where it demonstrated its swing role capabilities while engaging ground based target and switch to fire BVR missile in same mission simultaneously. This was a significant achievement in ensuring engagement of hostile intrusions in the beyond visual range combat scenarios, it is also worthy to note that only a select few have this aggregated capability.
It should be noted that TEJAS has already completed the weapons trails of the Russian R-73 missile.

 

[BlackJay]

Notably, the IAF has procured the DERBY BVR-AAM over the indigenous ASTRA BVRAAM to expedite the induction of TEJAS into its arsenal. The DERBY BVRAAM missile is a tried and tested weapon. The DERBY has a range of 50 km, compared with 80 km of the ASTRA missile." WHAT??????????

Astra for Tejas is a given.Just give it time.

A BVR is necessary for FOC and induction on Tejas,however we ran out of time yesterday.For now let Astra be completely integrated with fleet of 272 SU-30MKI.It will get integrated with every fighter of IN and IAF eventually.

 

[patriots]

IDN TAKE: TEJAS To Test Fire DERBY BVR Missile This Week
Monday, April 23, 2018 by Indiandefense News

A TEJAS light fighter seen equipped with the Derby system at the National Flight Test Centre
IDN has learnt from reliable sources that as part of its scheduled weapon trials, preparations are underway to test the Beyond Visual Range DERBY missiles this week at Jamnagar proving grounds. These weapon trials are part of the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) mandate which is likely to be completed by end July this year.
Continuing with its successful stride of production and flight trails in 2017, India's Tejas light fighter achieved a major milestone in February 2016. One of the limited series production (LSP) platforms fired a DERBY Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVRAAM) missile for the first time.

A Fighter Jet sports the Derby Missile
However, during the tests it was noted that the exercise did not yield the expected results as the DERBY missile caused excessive vibrations to the Tejas structure. As per detailed analysis by ADA the problem was found to be caused due to an inherent flaw with the missile and had got nothing to do with the Tejas. However, IDN also learnt that the problems have been sorted out and the Tejas test platform has been tweaked appropriately to accommodate and fire the missiles.

A mock-up of Naval Tejas shown with Derby and Python 5 Missiles at Aero India 2015
Rafael had delivered 100 Python-5 missiles to India however, it is learnt that IAF has abandoned the project (for undisclosed reasons) to equip Indian fighter jets with these missiles.
The Israeli DERBY series of missiles are one of the most advanced AAM systems in the world. The DERBY Beyond-Visual-Range (BVR) Air-To-Air Missile, is a medium-range (~50 km) active-radar seeker missile. Though technically not part of the "Python" family, the missile is basically an enlarged PYTHON-4 with an active-radar seeker. The DERBY BVR missile includes ECCM features. Like the PYTHON short range air-to-air missile, the DERBY has the same canards (wings), warhead, rocket motor design and proximity fuse and a dramatic increase in range. It's launch weight is 118 kg with a range of 63 km.
"Notably, the IAF has procured the DERBY BVR-AAM over the indigenous ASTRA BVRAAM to expedite the induction of TEJAS into its arsenal. The DERBY BVRAAM missile is a tried and tested weapon. The DERBY has a range of 50 km, compared with 80 km of the ASTRA missile." WHAT??????????
Only a handful of missile builders -- in the US, Russia, Europe and China -- have mastered the technologies that go into air-to-air missiles. In September 2017 the defence ministry had formally announced the successful development of the most challenging missile India has developed so far -- the ASTRA. Fired from a fighter aircraft travelling at over 1,000 km an hour, the ASTRA destroys an enemy fighter 65 to 70 km away. The trials conducted off the Odisha coast on September 11 to 14 saw seven ASTRA missiles being fired from a Sukhoi-30MKI (captive flight trials for avionics integration as a part of the test was also successfully conducted) at pilotless aircraft that were designated as targets. All seven ASTRA missiles hit their targets.
The ASTRA is fired from the Russian Vympel launcher -- a rail under a fighter aircraft's wing from which the missile hangs. The Vympel launcher is integrated with all four of India's current generation fighters -- the Su-30MKI, MiG-29, Mirage 2000 and the Tejas -- enabling the ASTRA to be fired from all of them.
In a significant advancement in the quest for indigenisation, two of the seven Astra missiles tested had undergone a crucial modification. The very heart of their ability to hunt down aircraft in the air, their seeker, had been replaced. The existing Russian Agat 9B1103M active radar seeker used on the Astra had been replaced with an Indian Ku-band seeker developed by the DRDO’s Research Centre Imarat (RCI) in Hyderabad.
Sukhoi Su-30MKI firing the air-to-air ASTRA missile during weapons trials

Indian engineers have already integrated & tested the previous generation of DERBY missiles on the Tejas Mk-1 jet, which was demonstrated for the first time in the Iron fist 2016 Exercise where it demonstrated its swing role capabilities while engaging ground based target and switch to fire BVR missile in same mission simultaneously. This was a significant achievement in ensuring engagement of hostile intrusions in the beyond visual range combat scenarios, it is also worthy to note that only a select few have this aggregated capability.
It should be noted that TEJAS has already completed the weapons trails of the Russian R-73 missile.

confusing report .........

I got that derby will be tested again in tejas.

as for my knowledge goes .....derby test was successful .......and there was problem with Python 5 wvraam .......or what ...
...................

 

[Kshithij]

USSR gave us the manufacturing right but never give us the design blue print rather the manufacturing blue print and drawings. It was the British which gave us Gnat design blue print, which led to the development of LCA that's why ADA choose the international/Western specification and not the Russian standards and specification. Funny part is even for Jaguar we have all the jigs and dies to manufactured it but question is did the Russian/Soviets tell us how to design a plane. What did we gain by manufacturing with licence which cost us high cost than off the shelf cost. What would be condition if we would have divert the money we saved over the development and R&d.

The license manufacturing of MiG21 was so cheap that we made 657 of it in India. Even Su30 is made with license from Russia and we make it at much lower cost. The cost hike for licensed production is just a propaganda and makes no sense. How can the cost increase if it is made in India from raw material stage? Is Indian labour so expensive?

Now, for your -Russia gave no blueprint- Su30 is the backbone of IAF as of now and it is Russian design. Russia gave the blueprint for it, including making of engines. I don't understand what do you mean by design blueprint. The exact specifications of each and every part is handed over and the ability to manufacture from raw materials given at very low cost. Why do you need spoon feeding?

"Notably, the IAF has procured the DERBY BVR-AAM over the indigenous ASTRA BVRAAM to expedite the induction of TEJAS into its arsenal. The DERBY BVRAAM missile is a tried and tested weapon. The DERBY has a range of 50 km, compared with 80 km of the ASTRA missile." WHAT??????????

The FOC needs tried and tested BVR missiles. Hence, Astra can't be used. Even R73 is not reliable and won't be used. Derby is only a short term solution with long term one relying on indigenous Astra

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Hi everyone.
I had a question about Tejas. Is its radar Indian or is it the E/LM-2032 of Israel? The official website says its a "joint-venture" between India and Israel.

El Psy Congroo.

 

[Shashwat]

^^ MK1 has 2032 pulse doppler radar. Mk1 might get 2052/Thales offering or Uttam, nothing is certain for Mk2 maybe by that time we will have Uttam 2.

Maybe its made with TOT locally not sure though.

 

[zebra7]

The license manufacturing of MiG21 was so cheap that we made 657 of it in India. Even Su30 is made with license from Russia and we make it at much lower cost. The cost hike for licensed production is just a propaganda and makes no sense. How can the cost increase if it is made in India from raw material stage? Is Indian labour so expensive?

Now, for your -Russia gave no blueprint- Su30 is the backbone of IAF as of now and it is Russian design. Russia gave the blueprint for it, including making of engines. I don't understand what do you mean by design blueprint. The exact specifications of each and every part is handed over and the ability to manufacture from raw materials given at very low cost. Why do you need spoon feeding?



The FOC needs tried and tested BVR missiles. Hence, Astra can't be used. Even R73 is not reliable and won't be used. Derby is only a short term solution with long term one relying on indigenous Astra

Su 30 mki is made from the raw material with raw material and various critical components coming from Russia. The cost of off the shelf purchase of Mki is much cheaper that from HAL factory. The blue print design is for how to manufactured and not for how and why that designed. The parameters and numbers given by OEM is to clear the QA and don't gives how that numbers are calculated, they give you raw material and don't give you the material composition. No direct talk with the Sukhoi rather through rosenborg state agency. Manufacturing Al 31 engine and bars radar by HAL is funny since most of the parts is shipped in kits to be assembled in india. Integration of third party components from other country is done by Sukhoi in Russia.

For the cost cheaper or costlier simple Google will reveal why Dassault refuses to manufacture Rafale under HAL, since the man power required was 3 times higher than the French.

 

[zebra7]

Hi everyone.
I had a question about Tejas. Is its radar Indian or is it the E/LM-2032 of Israel? The official website says its a "joint-venture" between India and Israel.

El Psy Congroo.

The radar is hybrid, means the backbone aka the computer, excited, etc is Israeli and the radar component is Indian. Pls understand that a Radar is mostly the software means the algorithm required to detect, identify and Target the target. Most of the hardware components required in the radar could be purchased in the form of module.

 

[Kshithij]

Su 30 mki is made from the raw material with raw material and various critical components coming from Russia. The cost of off the shelf purchase of Mki is much cheaper that from HAL factory. The blue print design is for how to manufactured and not for how and why that designed. The parameters and numbers given by OEM is to clear the QA and don't gives how that numbers are calculated, they give you raw material and don't give you the material composition. No direct talk with the Sukhoi rather through rosenborg state agency. Manufacturing Al 31 engine and bars radar by HAL is funny since most of the parts is shipped in kits to be assembled in india. Integration of third party components from other country is done by Sukhoi in Russia.

For the cost cheaper or costlier simple Google will reveal why Dassault refuses to manufacture Rafale under HAL, since the man power required was 3 times higher than the French.

You don't seem to understand the meaning of raw material. Raw material is unprocessed. That is bought from Russia only due to licensing agreement. It is something like indirect license fees. The raw material composition is not an issue as it is just raw material.

I agree that the design parameters and their calculation is not clear. But that is still better than knowing nothing. The manufacturing of engine is frok rww material stage. Only till 2013 kits were used. The ToT was progressive and Russia kept feeding full ToT over time. So, stating that Al31F is made by kits now is absurd. The material composition and manufacturing technology is provided by Russia even for the blades. However, the engine in older generation one and the material can't be used for newer ones like Kaveri.

The case of Dassault was thst Dassault found HAL to be usimg completely different techniques of assembly and dlow to learn nee techniques. So, the cost spiked. Yes, manpower needed to learn the techniques is high. Since the order was for just 36 planes, the learning curve itself was high. By the way, the cost for DRAL is also higher than Dassault

 

[Kshithij]

I want India to be a superpower and for India to be a superpower it has to surpass every other country even U.S.A in every way but there is only 1 thing that will make India a superpower which is very well written here:- http://unplannedthings.com/how-to-make-india-a-superpower/

This is a spam post. Stop writing this in every thread.

 

[AMCA]

Picture from DefExpo 2018.................

 

[Prashant12]

IAF flew 11,000 sorties. #Tejas was able to match other aircraft with six sorties every day. #GaganShakti2018 @IAF_MCC exercise carried out keeping two front war scenario in mind


Top IAF sources #Tejas was able to carry out all task assigned which included ground attack role. #GaganShakti2018

 

[patriots]

IAF flew 11,000 sorties. #Tejas was able to match other aircraft with six sorties every day. #GaganShakti2018 @IAF_MCC exercise carried out keeping two front war scenario in mind


Top IAF sources #Tejas was able to carry out all task assigned which included ground attack role. #GaganShakti2018

thanks bro for ur update s

.....30239392929929292993922929292929292030393293

 

[patriots]

more updates..


.............................no doubt tejas..is a world class fighter............................

 

[Sancho]

Some interesting infos in addition to that

Also an interesting point about the use of IOC versions, wonder if FOC version were used or not and if BVR missiles were tested?

 

[zebra7]

You don't seem to understand the meaning of raw material. Raw material is unprocessed. That is bought from Russia only due to licensing agreement. It is something like indirect license fees. The raw material composition is not an issue as it is just raw material.

I agree that the design parameters and their calculation is not clear. But that is still better than knowing nothing. The manufacturing of engine is frok rww material stage. Only till 2013 kits were used. The ToT was progressive and Russia kept feeding full ToT over time. So, stating that Al31F is made by kits now is absurd. The material composition and manufacturing technology is provided by Russia even for the blades. However, the engine in older generation one and the material can't be used for newer ones like Kaveri.

The case of Dassault was thst Dassault found HAL to be usimg completely different techniques of assembly and dlow to learn nee techniques. So, the cost spiked. Yes, manpower needed to learn the techniques is high. Since the order was for just 36 planes, the learning curve itself was high. By the way, the cost for DRAL is also higher than Dassault

bhai mere, what is raw material. Raw material such as titanium alloy bars, from which a component is made by cutting and machining. Now for that the HAL gets the technology, means the machine, technique, training its manpower so that now hal is doing the cutting and machining to create the part. What did HAL learned is how to manufacture. Now there are some parts such as critical components of engines, which are directly provided in the kit forms. What is TOT - trained the technicians for the new welding techniques, why that's what the concerned OEM have certified. Now what you don't know is the wastage of that raw material which is high, and the manpower requirement which is high due to the almost thrice as compared to the western, due to absence of the new, efficient, modern manufacturing techniques, and practices and the machines. To learn the techniques of building the airframes from the gigs provided by the sukhoi from the aluminium, titanium allow sheet is something you want to brag about then you are happy to do so, but what you are missing is that for any changes/modification, if HAL want to make needs the respective OEM's permission and certification.

 

[Kshithij]

bhai mere, what is raw material. Raw material such as titanium alloy bars, from which a component is made by cutting and machining. Now for that the HAL gets the technology, means the machine, technique, training its manpower so that now hal is doing the cutting and machining to create the part. What did HAL learned is how to manufacture. Now there are some parts such as critical components of engines, which are directly provided in the kit forms. What is TOT - trained the technicians for the new welding techniques, why that's what the concerned OEM have certified. Now what you don't know is the wastage of that raw material which is high, and the manpower requirement which is high due to the almost thrice as compared to the western, due to absence of the new, efficient, modern manufacturing techniques, and practices and the machines. To learn the techniques of building the airframes from the gigs provided by the sukhoi from the aluminium, titanium allow sheet is something you want to brag about then you are happy to do so, but what you are missing is that for any changes/modification, if HAL want to make needs the respective OEM's permission and certification.

First, the raw material of titanium or aluminium is not something special to be called critical goods. I have repeated that the contractual requirement is not technology deficiency. It is an indirect licensing fees.

Engine is made from raw material stage including nut, bolt, blades, disk, friction welding, forging etc. There is no kits involved except in your fictional world. Yes, Russia did train Indians as well as provided with all machinery to make from raw materials.

India is making a licensed version whereby Russia gave technology but expects India to be "honest" about upholding the contract "without leverage". In other words, India can make its own planes without Russian imports but that would break the "bond of trust".

Next, the raw material wastage is a problem and flaw of the contract but as I said, India is capable of making the plane on its own by "breaking the contract" for emergency. The techniques of Russian and western planes are different. India uses the same technology Russia uses to make Su30 in Russia.

Stop your false propaganda about using "kits" for engines