ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Samsung J7]

Israel gets technology transfer from USA. It does not do so much on its own. It is a myth.

No, they r capable if not they r capable of stealing required technology and reverse engineer it.

No nation (except india) will wait for another nation to give ToT.

 

[indiatester]

Israel gets technology transfer from USA. It does not do so much on its own. It is a myth.

They are very good actually. I have interacted with them (not defence related ofcourse), and they are pretty competent!

 

[Samsung J7]

Even Turkey developed very good private defence industry at par with western countries in last 10 years. While we r still begging for ToT even for rifles. No nation will never give ToT in plater to India. Dont know when will we learn our lesson.

 

[patriots]

but it seems quite impossible.....no radar tender ....till now

or we are going with uttam..aesa.....and hope this will not delay production.........
if it happens then I will be the happiest............

 

[Kshithij]

Even Turkey developed very good private defence industry at par with western countries in last 10 years. While we r still begging for ToT even for rifles. No nation will never give ToT in plater to India. Dont know when will we learn our lesson.

10 years is nowhere enough to build. Turkey does not have decent radars, submarine building technology, space agency, jet engine manufacturing or jet manufacturing all of which India has.

but it seems quite impossible.....no radar tender ....till now

if it happens then I will be the happiest............

Radars are needed even for MK1. So, a tender might be needed at least for the first 20 planes.

 

[Samsung J7]

10 years is nowhere enough to build. Turkey does not have decent radars, submarine building technology, space agency, jet engine manufacturing or jet manufacturing all of which India has.

What? Turkey is exporting more than 1 billion usd weapons. We r no where in the list. Last year Turkey won contract for upgrading Pakistan submarines. Can we even refurbish our submarines on own? They hav pretty succesfull avionics products like aselpod, drones etc. We r still behind turkeý in this areas.

 

[Kshithij]

What? Turkey is exporting more than 1 billion usd weapons. We r no where in the list. Last year Turkey won contract for upgrading Pakistan submarines. Can we even refurbish our submarines on own? They hav pretty succesfull avionics products like aselpod, drones etc. We r still behind turkeý in this areas.

Don't blabber. Turkey is the best amongst muslim countries and hence muslim countries give it orders. If you look closely, the order is for things like IFV, guns etc and not high end goods.

Turkey does not make its own submarines but assembles it after being imported from Germany with some indigenous parts. Pakistan submarine is not being upgraded by Turkey but in Turkey's shipyard with some parts still imported

 

[Samsung J7]

Don't blabber. Turkey is the best amongst muslim countries and hence muslim countries give it orders. If you look closely, the order is for things like IFV, guns etc and not high end goods.

Turkey does not make its own submarines but assembles it after being imported from Germany with some indigenous parts. Pakistan submarine is not being upgraded by Turkey but in Turkey's shipyard with some parts still imported

You r the one blabbering here. Their defence exports itself shows their defence industry level

 

[Willy3]

What? Turkey is exporting more than 1 billion usd weapons. We r no where in the list. Last year Turkey won contract for upgrading Pakistan submarines. Can we even refurbish our submarines on own? They hav pretty succesfull avionics products like aselpod, drones etc. We r still behind turkeý in this areas.

Kshitji already explained it, turkeT also exploit the benefit of a being NATO country, they don't necessarily develop all necessary technologies, they get huge support from european and us industries.

 

[Adioz]

You r the one blabbering here. Their defence exports itself shows their defence industry level

Defence exports only show that they are good salesmen. And that they have a streamlined MIC, unlike our blundering lumbering bureaucratic disaster of an MIC. But that is all. Turkey is not superior to India in technology. Period.

Look at the following list. Compare the ranks of India and Turkey.
http://www.scimagojr.com/countryrank.php?area=2200
Just because they can do a lot of joint or licensed production does not mean that they have any actual design capability. Tell me a single aircraft or capital warship that Turkey has that was designed in Turkey.

So stop comparing Turkey - a country that can only do licensed production - with a country like India - which is aiming to develop every single technology in-house.

In aerospace tech, Turkey is a joke in front of India. Hypersonic, DEW, cryogenic, nuclear, jet engine techs are only some areas where Indian tech level is years ahead of Turkey. Consider the Turkish and Indian 5th gen fighter projects for example. What exactly is the share of tech each country is contributing and outsourcing in these projects? I cannot believe someone would actually compare technology levels of Turkey with India.

While we r still begging for ToT even for rifles. No nation will never give ToT in plater to India. Dont know when will we learn our lesson.

ToT for rifles? Maybe you forgot JVPC and all the other next gen small arms coming out of OFB?

But I do agree, that critical tech will never be served to us on a silver platter.

Still, I am not sure which "Critical tech" does Turkey even posses?

 

[aditya10r]

Still, I am not sure which "Critical tech" does Turkey even posses?

Jihad.

__________________________________________

 

[Rahul Singh]

That's why I'll vote for Modi in 2019 compared to Khangress I can really witness the change in Armed forces.
Indignation, privatisation, upgrade of logistics and fast cementing of deal.

324 Tejas is the biggest push that can happen in Indian Aviation. Of those 284 Tejas orders are from NDA-2. Without any doubt, it is Modi-Doval work.

Also, i won't be surprised if they also cancel MRCA-2 and make do with only SU-30MKIs and plus 324 Tejas for a decade or so for saving money to expedite AMCA.

Besides
Keep Modi aside. What kind of idiots would vote for this 48-year-old youth icon of India?

 

[Kshithij]

Defence exports only show that they are good salesmen. And that they have a streamlined MIC, unlike our blundering lumbering bureaucratic disaster of an MIC. But that is all. Turkey is not superior to India in technology. Period.

Look at the following list. Compare the ranks of India and Turkey.
http://www.scimagojr.com/countryrank.php?area=2200
Just because they can do a lot of joint or licensed production does not mean that they have any actual design capability. Tell me a single aircraft or capital warship that Turkey has that was designed in Turkey.

So stop comparing Turkey - a country that can only do licensed production - with a country like India - which is aiming to develop every single technology in-house.

In aerospace tech, Turkey is a joke in front of India. Hypersonic, DEW, cryogenic, nuclear, jet engine techs are only some areas where Indian tech level is years ahead of Turkey. Consider the Turkish and Indian 5th gen fighter projects for example. What exactly is the share of tech each country is contributing and outsourcing in these projects? I cannot believe someone would actually compare technology levels of Turkey with India.


ToT for rifles? Maybe you forgot JVPC and all the other next gen small arms coming out of OFB?

But I do agree, that critical tech will never be served to us on a silver platter.

Still, I am not sure which "Critical tech" does Turkey even posses?

Turkey does not do even licensed production. Licensed production in absolute terms mean production like Indian Su30 MKI, K100 missile, T90 Tanks etc which is produced fully in India.

Turkey has no critical technology that is fully made in Turkey

 

[Prashant12]

Arjun Mark-2 tank set to see light of day

Design of Tejas’ next version almost done, indicates DRDO Chairman

In an important move, the ‘Made in India’ Arjun Mark-2 tank project is set to see the light of the day.

Chairman of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) Dr S Christopher in an interview to The Tribune said, “We have had a meeting with the Vice-Chief of the Indian Army where it was agreed on accepting Mark-2. Modalities are being worked out”. Once done, the acceptance of necessity (AON) for 118 will be revived, he added.

The AON is decided by the Defence Acquisition Council headed by the Defence Minister. A total of 93 modifications have been done on the first version of Arjun — 124 were inducted — in 2010-2011.

On being asked if the Army was okay with the weight of the tank, the DRDO boss said: “The weight (the tank is almost 58 tonnes) has been accepted; that is a major change”. Most modern European tanks are of the same weight, and tank-transporters (specialised trucks) for Arjun are available.

The DRDO has promised to set up a system to maintain the Arjun Mark-2 within India. It will be an annual maintenance contract with the Bharat Earth Movers Limited (BEML) as a possible agency, Dr Christopher said. On the trials, he said, “These have done 4,000 kms of run, the upgrades will be tested.”

On artillery guns, Dr Christopher said the Advanced Towed Artillery Gun Systems (ATAGS), of which the Army has agreed to accept 40 pieces to start with, will get a more powerful engine to enable rapid movement. The guns designed by DRDO have been made by two private companies under the transfer of technology.

The DRDO is keen to get a slice of the 1,580 towed guns the Army is looking to buy. “Both companies (Tata Power SED and Bharat Forge) are gearing up produce more. We need an order for 200-300 guns to tie up logistics,” he said.


Talking about the next version of the Tejas, called ‘Mark1-A’, Dr Christopher said: “The design other than the AESA radar and the jammer pod is complete.”


Hindustan Aeronautics Limited is looking to import the AESA radar even as DRDO made a radar that will be tested next month. The IAF is looking at 83 ‘Mark1-A’, with 59 improvements over the existing Tejas.


The Indian Air Force has projected a need for 324 fighter jets over 15 years and has officially indicated that it needs the ‘Tejas Mark 2’ (medium combat aircraft). It will carry a more powerful engine and weigh almost 20 per cent heavier than Tejas.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/arjun-mark-2-tank-set-to-see-light-of-day/563832.html

 

[abingdonboy]

Based on my discussions with people in the 'Tejas community' it seems increasingly likely that MK-1A production may begin with the 21st HAL series production unit itself.

No doubt about it. I had already said that FOC now means Mk1A configuration hence all the delay. Earlier FOC was to be achieved by 2014 then shifted to 2015 and now 2018 end. Why? Because new foc standards which is Mk1A. There could also be engine change to f414 in Mk1A as there are no new orders for f404 and f414 have started to arrive..
Naysayers will be in for some real nasty surprise....:biggrin2:

Cannot see how Mk.1A can come so soon, 21st SP will be delivered in mid-2019,the Mk.1A hasn't even taken to the skies as of yet. I understand that Mk.1A is mostly Mk.1 FOC with some addtional features but I'd be surprised if the validation and certification process could be so compressed and the fact is neither the AESA radar nor SPJ has been selected, it takes at least 2-3 years to get these delivered. Something is going on because HAL should've selected the AESA and SPJ by now.

+ F414 for MK.1/A isn't going to happen, that will take a long time also and so far only 6 414s have been ordered and (2-4 have already been sent to India for MK.2).

 

[lcafanboy]

Cannot see how Mk.1A can come so soon, 21st SP will be delivered in mid-2019,the Mk.1A hasn't even taken to the skies as of yet. I understand that Mk.1A is mostly Mk.1 FOC with some addtional features but I'd be surprised if the validation and certification process could be so compressed and the fact is neither the AESA radar nor SPJ has been selected, it takes at least 2-3 years to get these delivered. Something is going on because HAL should've selected the AESA and SPJ by now.

+ F414 for MK.1/A isn't going to happen, that will take a long time also and so far only 6 414s have been ordered and (2-4 have already been sent to India for MK.2).

AESA is Elta 2052 for sure. As for engines we had just 26-28 f404 engines of which 9 SP delivered and next year 12 SP will be delivered. Where are engines no new order has been placed. For f414 we have deal. Also f414 size is same as f404 with some minor changes externally. GE must've changed it fit in to mk1A, so the designation of model also is India specific GE F414ins6. MK is totally a different design with much more powerful engines than f414 could be kaveri or GE F414 EPE with more than 110kn power.

 

[darshan978]

AESA is Elta 2052 for sure. As for engines we had just 26-28 f404 engines of which 9 SP delivered and next year 12 SP will be delivered. Where are engines no new order has been placed. For f414 we have deal. Also f414 size is same as f404 with some minor changes externally. GE must've changed it fit in to mk1A, so the designation of model also is India specific GE F414ins6. MK is totally a different design with much more powerful engines than f414 could be kaveri or GE F414 EPE with more than 110kn power.

Hein...,..............

 

[Prashant12]

KH-2018 with BVRs (Derby).

https://www.facebook.com/tejas.lca

 

[Rahul Singh]

Cannot see how Mk.1A can come so soon, 21st SP will be delivered in mid-2019,the Mk.1A hasn't even taken to the skies as of yet. I understand that Mk.1A is mostly Mk.1 FOC with some addtional features but I'd be surprised if the validation and certification process could be so compressed and the fact is neither the AESA radar nor SPJ has been selected, it takes at least 2-3 years to get these delivered. Something is going on because HAL should've selected the AESA and SPJ by now.

One possibility is that HAL starts rolling out the initial batch of MK-1A without AESA and SPJ. And later retrofitting them with MMR once made available. Maybe IAF has asked for it to save money which would otherwise be spent on bringing what could have MK-1 FOC to MK-1A. Maybe DRDO-HAL-IAF has agreed to it (UTTAM) to save money and complexity at a later stage by making some sacrifices initially.

Still, considering IAF usual attitude i am taking this news with a pinch of salt.

 

[dumdumdum]

One possibility is that HAL starts rolling out the initial batch of MK-1A without AESA and SPJ. And later retrofitting them with MMR once made available. Maybe IAF has asked for it to save money which would otherwise be spent on bringing what could have MK-1 FOC to MK-1A. Maybe DRDO-HAL-IAF has agreed to it (UTTAM) to save money and complexity at a later stage by making some sacrifices initially.

Still, considering IAF usual attitude i am taking this news with a pinch of salt.

"Agile Development Model" applied to the world of military airtcrafts?