ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Babloo Singh]

Obviously we have two totally-opposite comments regarding Mk2 is on life support or not. Which one is true?

Well if we can resolve power issue on MK1 by using Kavari Engine ( No changes to airframe) than we don't need MK2. We can add most of other feature to MK1.

 

[kamaal]

A French Mk1-A ?? I don't believe this, if they are still at preliminary stage of deciding partners for Mk1-A then I expect the bird to be ready after 2021, this will be a big delay. MK1-A was supposed to an effort of HAL & ADA to reduce weight and enhance its performance, now how come we are involving french into it ??
We are wasting too much time..

 

[Shadow]

From the Cockpit of LCA Tejas : An Interview with Air Cmde Rohit Varma (Part 1)

 

[tejas warrior]

Update from Indranil@BR

SP-5 is from the new line. It had a couple of problems in the ground runs. It has been fixed. It has reached the flight line.

SP-7 has almost crossed equipment stage.

 

[S.Balaji]

A French Mk1-A ?? I don't believe this, if they are still at preliminary stage of deciding partners for Mk1-A then I expect the bird to be ready after 2021, this will be a big delay. MK1-A was supposed to an effort of HAL & ADA to reduce weight and enhance its performance, now how come we are involving french into it ??
We are wasting too much time..

In recent past we are seeing a lot of ominous news generated in Main Stream Media (MSM) regarding Tejas causing heartburn amongst our members....one can see that paid MSM is working overtime waging its tail to its foreign masters as evident from flurry of articles containing unsolicited offers ranging from F16/F18 offers, cutting edge AESA to the recent LRU modules from French. (remember still no RFI issued for SE fighter)

One has to analyse why such sudden unsolicited offers with unbelievable TOTs of cutting edge tech, why the sudden big heart shown by business houses to Bharat? The reason for this sudden largess of Foreign vendors is two fold.

One :- They know that Tejas is a world class product which will dominate the asian and 3rd world skies for next 50 years. (Similar to f16 run). Hence they want a piece of the huge pie. Economy of South American, African and Asian countries are looking up and are expected to be a huge market for low-cost 4/4.5 gen fighters. Western countries loaded so much goodies in their aircraft that their 4/4.5 gen aircraft are prohibitively costly (even for India eg Rafale saga) and they put all their eggs in one basket by investing in 5th gen fighter tech making their own tech prohibitively costly to themselves resulting in curtailed orders of f22, f35s, Su-57 at the expense of 4/4.5 gen aircraft. These companies do not market for their current goods).Market for low cost Tejas is huge with only Chinese junk as competition and Tejas has attracted a lot of interest. Tejas would be a work horse not an white elephant.To want a piece of that pie first they started out with Joint manufacture offers (eg Gripen offer), once they came to know NDA was not interested they started pitching for joint manufacture of high value mission critical units like AESA etc with full TOT and now the French with their LRUs. In days to come don't be surprised by our MSM doing a lot of tail- wagging reg various sub-system being offered from around the globe and continued news of various companies opening office in New Delhi and how their subsystems are better than indigenous ones and false claim of delay of integration of indigenous ones etc etc

Two:-Another reason for this big heart is because western MIC's future is in doldrums with the airforce world over reducing the number of ordered aircraft due to their countries fiscal health with bleak future orders which would force them to shut down their lines. These business houses are desperate to perpetuate the talent & Industrial base which would otherwise perish due to lack of orders, so they need to diversify their market and hence the flurry of unsolicited offers being pitched through MSM and their agents in MOD. So don't be surprised to see doomsday articles of Tejas and its various sub systems quoting informed sources.
However NDA & ADA/HAL should ensure the rot of sabotage should not rear its head again, remember the sad case of CVRDE being forced to place its employees inside Arjun during the army trials due to suspected sabotage. Sadly though Arjun proved its mettle against T90, it still has not recovered from the combined blow of foreign MIC's well placed agents in MSM, MOD & Army. Our counter espionage should work to identify these interests inimical to our interests and prevent any sabotage and subsequent substituting of our indigenous product with theirs (Eg Marut /Arjun).

ADA is very upbeat on Tejas and also its Naval variant despite Navy's cribbing.Bottom line is as long as NDA is in picture post 2019, rest assured Tejas will be our F16 dominating the skies over land and sea in different iteration for next 50 years with complete set of indigenous sub systems and weapons . Any interim procurement like Israeli AESA, Python CCM and other subsystems is to fill the gap until our indigenous subsystems matures. Jai Hind.

 

[cannonfodder]

These are most likely speculations. Integrating and validating kaveri engine will take a lot of time on Tejas.

HAL must stick with GE engines and go ahead with weight reductions & modularization effort. They can switch over with Kaveri once its validated and tested properly.

A French Mk1-A ?? I don't believe this, if they are still at preliminary stage of deciding partners for Mk1-A then I expect the bird to be ready after 2021, this will be a big delay. MK1-A was supposed to an effort of HAL & ADA to reduce weight and enhance its performance, now how come we are involving french into it ??
We are wasting too much time..

 

[HariPrasad-1]

I have a quick qn.

I remember that we had imported nose cone from Chobam as our Kevlar cone is resisting the radar. To my knowledge use of Chobam cone has improved radar range by 25%.

My question is are we still importing the nose cone from Chobam?

Thanks in advance

May be yes. ......................

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Is Thales offer for RBE2 based AESA radar for Tejas-Mk1A a threat to Elta’s ELM-2052 chances in India? Published October 17, 2017 SOURCE: THOMAS D’SOUZA / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG

Israeli company, Elta after winning contract, to supply 61 Elta’s ELM-2052 AESA radar to be equipped on DARIN-3 upgraded Jaguar fleet of Indian Air Force was largely seen as in the driver seat before India’s state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) invited overseas bids for 80 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars and electronic warfare (EW) suites to be equipped on soon to be developed Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Mk 1A variant. Request for quotation (RFQ) for 80 AESA radars issued last December had asked for fast delivery scheduled since the project is expected to go alive by 2019 followed by production by 2021. Israel Aerospace Industries/Elta (Israel), Raytheon (United States), Rosoboronexport (Russia), Saab (Sweden), and Thales (France) were some of the companies which received RFQ but tight delivery schedule meant not all agreed to participate. ELM-2052 AESA radar could have been an easy pick for HAL and IAF which have tested and successfully integrated them into Jaguar Strike aircrafts but some media reports hint that IAF was rather impressed by Thales proposed scaled down version of RBE2 AESA radar which is equipped on Dassault Rafale which India will start getting from 2019 on wards. Recent Press Release issued by Thales confirms that RBE2 derived Aesa radar was successfully developed and tested, all in a span of four months and test conducted in the month of July-August on a Test-bed aircraft meet specific requirements set by HAL in their RFQ for the Tejas Mk1A fighter jet. Unconfirmed reports hint that IAF wanted to equip Tejas Mk-1A, which will be India’s Point Air Defence Interceptor aircraft to be equipped with AESA radar which can dominate in air-superiority missions thus Elta’s ELM-2052 was sidelined for some reason even though it was already equipped with Jaguar ground attack aircraft fleet. RBE2 derived AESA radar for Tejas Mk-1A might find support from Indian Air Force since it will offer increased detection and track capabilities when compared to Elta’s ELM-2052. Raven ES-05 AESA Radar which has been offered to India with Gripen E to meet India’s Single-engined fighter requirement also has been offered to India to be equipped with Tejas Mk-1A. There is no confirmation if Raytheon has responded to HAL’s RFQ but at least on the paper, RBE2 derived AESA radar and Raven ES-05 AESA Radar, which is on offer are far superior in performance when compared to Elta’s ELM-2052 performance. Elta, a few years back had offered to co-develop with HAL, a new enhanced AESA radar based on ELM-2052 which was rejected. India’s locally developed UTTAM Aesa Radar is currently been prepared for integration and testing trials from LCA-Tejas and may see service with Tejas MK-2 when it is ready for production.

http://idrw.org/is-thales-offer-for...-eltas-elm-2052-chances-in-india/#more-151064 .

So far as it comes to electronics, nobody can beat France. They are simply unmatched.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Well if we can resolve power issue on MK1 by using Kavari Engine ( No changes to airframe) than we don't need MK2. We can add most of other feature to MK1.

We need MK-2 but it has to be based on significantly improved Naval Model not marginally improved IAF model.

Naval MK-2 version is not only 0.8 m longer than AF MK-2 version but also has its main landing gear moved out of the fuselage and into wing roots. Which not only provides large freed up space in fuselage --for more fuel and electronics-- but also better aerodynamics because of better wing body blending. Speaking of aerodynamics Naval MK-2 also has LEVCON which can not only be used for reducing speeds during landing but if integrated with FCS can also be used for improving low-speed handling during entire flight regime which in specific terms means shorter take-off and landing distances, tighter turns greater Gs at lesser speeds, better L/D performance etc.

In nutshell, Naval MK-2 can lift higher, fly farther/longer and fight better. Still why IAF and IN is not standardizing on one design is beyond all logic?...........It is another thing that just like IAF even IN now is becoming an import loving service also. God damn the Air Marshals and Admirals(now, also)

Naval Version

 

[Rahul Singh]

Courtesy: BR.

"I shouldn't reveal the nature of the tests. I will just say that they were trying a world-class target and easily achieved it. So, they are going to go up one and make the target even tougher. They have to do some sims before that is tested. So in the meantime, they are going for some detachments for armament delivery. After that, you will hear a great news (something that was always seen in windtunnel models), but was believed to have been dropped in final product). I think that is a good enough hint for you. Keep it to yourself. When they come back, they will continue the test for the enhanced objective and then gun trials."

--------------------------

1.Short Fixed-Canard/Fin like one in Mirage-2000H or Kafir? Or

2.Supersonic Drop Tanks? Or

3.Most probably a Multi Ejector rack for the outermost pylon for mounting WVRAAM+ SPJ?

Excited!

Oh wait! the BR source say "something that was always seen in wind tunnel models, but was believed to have been dropped in final product"..............So has to be a structural change. New canopy or maybe nose plug extension.

 

[S.Balaji]

Courtesy: BR.

"I shouldn't reveal the nature of the tests. I will just say that they were trying a world-class target and easily achieved it. So, they are going to go up one and make the target even tougher. They have to do some sims before that is tested. So in the meantime, they are going for some detachments for armament delivery. After that, you will hear a great news (something that was always seen in windtunnel models), but was believed to have been dropped in final product). I think that is a good enough hint for you. Keep it to yourself. When they come back, they will continue the test for the enhanced objective and then gun trials."

--------------------------

1.Short Fixed-Canard/Fin like one in Mirage-2000H or Kafir? Or

2.Supersonic Drop Tanks? Or

3.Most probably a Multi Ejector rack for the outermost pylon for mounting WVRAAM+ SPJ?

Excited!

Oh wait! the BR source say "something that was always seen in wind tunnel models, but was believed to have been dropped in final product"..............So has to be a structural change. New canopy or maybe nose plug extension.

Remember seeing a '90s wind tunnel model with a Canard and also one with Wing extensions (similar to Mig 29)

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

@lcafanboy

Hold on your breath bro!!!

Please dont go in speculation.

Even after mating M88 core with Kaveri it will take min of 5 years to certify and validate the engine.

And there is no reason to trust somebody merely for a spook. This is BJP Govt. nothing comes out as insiders information. Every time and again all insiders informations had proved incorrect.

The Safran has promised to make Kaveri workable, there is no information that they will improve or upgrade the performance of Kaveri upto 95 KN.

They are making Kaveri workable as per the Offset Clause of Rafale Deal, why they will kill their own M88 engine.

Kindly note why they are interested in Kaveri Engine because it is a Flat Rated Variable Cycle Engine. They are going to learn about Variable Cycle Engine, without investing Single Euro in it.

And mind it they are not going to part with any Know How forget "Know Why" about design which they will make to Kaveri, & Blisk, SCB, Metallurgy, Ceramic Technologies.

We will be importing all this as part and parcel of Core of M88 from Safran.

We shall wait and see what comes out of the Offset of Rafale Deal.

But the most important development is UTTAM AESA.

All the Foreign Suppliers have Smelled that Uttam Radar is on the cusp of success.

Thats why all the Foreign Vendors rushing to sell us with their Radars, be it, Thales, SAAB, Raytheon, Rosoboronexport.

They very well know that if Uttam is successful then it will not only go with Tejas but can be mounted on any aircraft available with IAF be it MK2, MIG-29, JAGUAR even MKI, In different iterations, with our own air to air missiles, anti radiation missiles, and a plethora of PGM.

And this a huge-huge market to loose. That's why everybody is offering Radars with all the goodies to us, because this is their last chance.

Safran is also helping us out on Kaveri because they know 5-7 years down the line there will be no ENGINE to sale to India. Because by then we will be in the position to develop our own.

Extract all profit which they can before it is too late.

 

[singh100ful]

As far as IRST is concerned, I don't think there is any space left for an internal IRST, podded however is very much possible.

Internal IRST can still be done by adding a nose plug.

 

[Pandora]

How reliable Indranil is from BRF???

 

[lcafanboy]

Even after mating M88 core with Kaveri it will take min of 5 years to certify and validate the engine.

If you have read carefully they are planning to send kaveri engine to France for flight testing within 30 days so i should not take much time.......

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

If you have read carefully they are planning to send kaveri engine to France for flight testing within 30 days so i should not take much time.......

Flight testing ????? Common Bro!!! Do they mated it with M88 Core????? That's News to me.

Well I take this information with pinch of salt. No information about this from any other source, till now.

And now understand what will happen if this spoof is true.

Let us consider this information as Gospel True, then this means Not a Single screw been added or replaced in India. And whole "Prototype" is been Shipped to France for DISSECTION, Far-Far away from Indian Eyes.

Indians will be in end handed over the Finished Product with M88 Core, without any Knowledge, apart from M88 Core what was changed, what parts were tweaked and WHY.

In the end we will be handed over the design of the Engine Minus M88 Core, which we will have to produce here in India with out knowing what they changed with the engine and why it was changed and what was KNOW-WHY for doing that.

We will never learn what happened with Kaveri in France and that KNOW-WHY will never be told to us.

We will be asked to produce parts of Kaveri Engine as "Designed Tweaked" by Safran. With an IMPORTED M88 CORE.

We developed Kaveri but all the critical "KNOW-HOW" & "KNOW-WHY" remains with Safran.

Hope you understand what I want to say.

 

[Armand2REP]

@Bhoot Pishach Do you really think it takes Safran 5 years to certify an engine core that has millions of hours on it? The core is already certified, it just needs some integration testing and done. If GoI will sign-off on the offset amount this will be done in a year. Hopefully this will be signed during the visit of Parley and full work can go ahead.

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

@Bhoot Pishach Do you really think it takes Safran 5 years to certify an engine core that has millions of hours on it? The core is already certified, it just needs some integration testing and done. If GoI will sign-off on the offset amount this will be done in a year. Hopefully this will be signed during the visit of Parley and full work can go ahead.

With an entire new and different design. Having different flow dynamics and pressures.

It may take more then 2 years to fine tune and certify the whole engine.

We even dont know what final output they are aiming for, it may end up with 85KN, which may not be that great in the end.

May need to further change LPT spool to realise full potential of the Engine.

Let us see what culminates in the end.

 

[lcafanboy]

How reliable Indranil is from BRF???

very much reliable....................

 

[lcafanboy]

With an entire new and different design. Having different flow dynamics and pressures.

It may take more then 2 years to fine tune and certify the whole engine.

We even dont know what final output they are aiming for, it may end up with 85KN, which may not be that great in the end.

May need to further change LPT spool to realise full potential of the Engine.

Let us see what culminates in the end.

DM Parikar made them start & almost complete Kaveri engine before we signed Rafale deal, only flight testing remains now, which will be done next year (Kaveri will be taken to France in 30 days as per Parikrama) and that's the reason they are now demanding we order more Rafales for the co-operation they are extending for LCA Mk1A......

@Bhoot Pishach Even I am wary of all your concerns, All your points are valid.......... but let's hope for the best.

Why I am hopeful is Dassault & France needs Indian orders to remain relevant and free from US influence and they are looking to undercut US fighter orders to India. As it is with Fighters becoming expensive only a few nations can afford so there won't be any orders if India doesn't buy and for dassault to remain relevant as fighter producer and to keep Rafales Upgraded to newer versions they need this order and for future co-operation for Rafale NG which can be merged with AMCA along with Germany. So there are many variables which can make this happen.............

WRT to know-why, Know-how, we should be OK if Kaveri is produced in India with Safran providing parts from its Goa plant without any restriction or sanctions.... It should not matter whether these parts are manufactured by Bharat Forge Pune or Snecma Goa.......... as long as it is made in INDIA.