ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[BlackJay]

Who said it to you bro?

Ferry range means the maximum range the aircraft can fly. This usually means maximum fuel load, optionally with extra fuel tanks and minimum equipment.

I think you are right.This is what the Wikipedia says.

Ferry range means the maximumrange the aircraft can fly. This usually means maximum fuel load, optionally with extra fuel tanks and minimum equipment. It refers to transport of aircraft without any passengers or cargo.

 

[TPFscopes]

I think you are right.This is what the Wikipedia says.

I edited that definition fews months ago.

And in other words it can be simplified as the maximum distance a fighter jet or any aircraft so that it can fly with maximum fuel (either internal or external) and no/less ordnance.

Aircrafts usually ferry during relocations.

If we calculate the ferry range with ordinance than it will be termed as combat range.

Also, if it will engage in mission than it will be termed as combat radius.

Thes are only simplified comparison

 

[BlackJay]

I edited that definition fews months ago

He he.So I was quoting you to prove that you are right.

Offtopic but are you xkiller from IDF?I find both your posts to be very similar...

 

[Chinmoy]

I think you are right.This is what the Wikipedia says.

@TPFscopes ..... As what you have mentioned, optionally with extra fuel tanks, and as you later added @BlackJay, It refers to transport of aircraft without any passengers or cargo.

Now ferry range of any aircraft depends on perception of user. Some does consider external fuel tanks as cargo or load and doesn't consider the distance. Now internal Fuel capacity of Tejas is 2458kg and on this fuel it does covers a distance of 1700km and that is considered as Ferry range of Tejas. With External tanks it comes to near about 3000km, but its not considered as ferry range.

 

[patriots]

whats my ans @ bro TPF scope s...what will be range in advanced. version.

 

[BlackJay]

whats my ans @ bro TPF scope s...what will be range in advanced. version.

1700 kms with internal fuel and 3000 kms with external tanks.

 

[patriots]

1700 kms with internal fuel and 3000 kms with external tanks.

according to wiki ...tejas mk1 has the above ranges

I am asking ....for tejas mk1a

 

[BlackJay]

according to wiki ...tejas mk1 has the above ranges

I am asking ....for tejas mk1a

These are the ranges for mk1a only.Remember that mk1 was overweight and didn't meet all targets.Wiki is probably quoting official range of mk1 ,which is less than real range due to weight issues.

We will however have to wait for first mk1a to fly before we can know more accurate numbers.

 

[TPFscopes]

@TPFscopes ..... As what you have mentioned, optionally with extra fuel tanks, and as you later added @BlackJay, It refers to transport of aircraft without any passengers or cargo.

Now ferry range of any aircraft depends on perception of user. Some does consider external fuel tanks as cargo or load and doesn't consider the distance. Now internal Fuel capacity of Tejas is 2458kg and on this fuel it does covers a distance of 1700km and that is considered as Ferry range of Tejas. With External tanks it comes to near about 3000km, but its not considered as ferry range.

Ferry range can be literally unlimited if any aircraft have IFR capability but practically it is bound to limited because of pilot fatigue and the engine lubricant consumption.

For LCA TEJAS mk1
It has a decent ferry range of ~3000kms with 2x 1200 litre drop tank at inboard,1×725 litre drop tank under fuselage. It will not further extended because LCA MK1 didn't have IFR capability.

You must go through the data which is already posted:

And in other words it can be simplified as the maximum distance a fighter jet or any aircraft so that it can fly with maximum fuel (either internal or external) and no/less ordnance.

Aircrafts usually ferry during relocations.

If we calculate the ferry range with ordinance than it will be termed as combat range.

Also, if it will engage in mission than it will be termed as combat radius.

Thes are only simplified comparison

 

[Chinmoy]

Ferry range can be literally unlimited if any aircraft have IFR capability but practically it is bound to limited because of pilot fatigue and the engine lubricant consumption.

For LCA TEJAS mk1
It has a decent ferry range of ~3000kms with 2x 1200 litre drop tank at inboard,1×725 litre drop tank under fuselage. It will not further extended because LCA MK1 didn't have IFR capability.

You must go through the data which is already posted:

No offence, but I was quoting official press release on Tejas where the ferry range has been quoted as 1700 kms.

LCA Tejas is capable of flying non- stop to destinations over 1700 km away (Ferry Range). It's Radius of Action is upto 500 km depending upon the nature and duration of actual combat.

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=102056

 

[shiphone]

actually quite some confidential Airforce manuals of modern combat aircraft (early models of 1980s' and 1990s') have been unclassified... you may try to find such manuals by yourselves...

normally it would be marked with '(internal fuel)' if it is the range with internal fuel only on the performance sheet of a combat aircraft.

and in Soviet system/standard, we also can find the concept of "Basic Range" with internal fuel + some basic air combat payloads(gun ammunition + short range missile)

------------------

F-16A Block15....

Ferry Range: 3840 km with 2113 Gal(8000L/6.2 ton) fuel which includes internal + external fuel definitely...and this is under some other conditions like speed , altitude, and duration

---------------
and the later varient F-16C block 30

1859 NM / 3442km with 2113 Gal(8000L/6.2 ton) fuel

 

[TPFscopes]

No offence, but I was quoting official press release on Tejas where the ferry range has been quoted as 1700 kms.



http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=102056

They mentioned the range with clean airframe.
You may even find new official data as soon as it will get FOC with the figures of 3K.

Even when LCA went to Bahrain, it travelled far more than 1700kms without landing.

 

[G10]

On the way to bahrain lca refulelled at oman and probably at jamnargar too.

 

[Vijyes]

Who said it to you bro?

Ferry range means the maximum range the aircraft can fly. This usually means maximum fuel load, optionally with extra fuel tanks and minimum equipment.

Ahh, sorry about that.I thought it was the maximum distance a plane could fly without refuelling , aerial or otherwise.

I was merely quoting Indranil-

Ferry range with fuel pods is plain stupid. Even if that is the definition, there is no use for such a number. What one needs is range with internal fuel. If a crazy peraon adds 20000L of fuel, it may travel half the world. That is just irrelevant.

We need useful numbers like distance with internal fuel and complete payload on all the point, distance with internal fuel and basic fittings etc. A fighter plane is meant to fight and not ferry. So, the ferry range should be taken in that context. If we are speaking of a Boeing 747,I can understand. The definition can change depending on context too.

Tejas ferry range is similar to Saab as both uae same engine and have similar weight - 1700km. One way range is about 850km,though combat radius will be lower at about 400km as a plane has to do several maneuvering and multiple sorties.

Please stop editing Wikipedia just like that.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Flying non-stop 1700kms, Radius of action aka combat range is up 500kms ( Interception with Full after burner & dogfight maneuvers ) ..

========

Ferry range 1700kms, With MAX-internal and external its near 3000kms and with a help of a mid-air refuel its somewhere 4,700kms ..

========

Max combat radius for various ground attack missions ..

Older chart from 2013, Parameters might have changed now ..

Tejas ferry range is similar to Saab as both uae same engine and have similar weight - 1700km. One way range is about 850km,though combat radius will be lower at about 400km as a plane has to do several maneuvering and multiple sorties..

 

[TPFscopes]

Ferry range with fuel pods is plain stupid. Even if that is the definition, there is no use for such a number. What one needs is range with internal fuel. If a crazy peraon adds 20000L of fuel, it may travel half the world. That is just irrelevant.

So many times you went crazy along with stupid assumptions...
20000L fuel is one of the most stupid among them.

For the last time, I'm reiterating the facts.
Even if any fighter jet have drop tanks, CFTs and IFR capability, still aircraft have to land for engine lubrications replenishment (which are always limited) along with that pilot fatigue is also an major issue.

For LCA,
If IAF decided to shift Tejas from lowermost Indian point to Leh AFB than they will use their drop tanks (2x 1200 liter + 1x 750 liter) and 1 IFR may also required to ferry the aircraft.

If jet have capability to ferry the whole distance in one go than why should they land for refueling.

If you still believe that

Ferry range with fuel pods is plain stupid.

Than you should decide the side of stupidity...

Good Day..

 

[Armand2REP]

If you have a flight of aircraft that need to travel long distance and a refueling tanker is available it is actually preferable to do it from the air. Hauling thousands of extra litres of fuel is taxing on the engines/airframe and raises fuel consumption. It is also a good time to practice IAR.

So many times you went crazy along with stupid assumptions...
20000L fuel is one of the most stupid among them.

For the last time, I'm reiterating the facts.
Even if any fighter jet have drop tanks, CFTs and IFR capability, still aircraft have to land for engine lubrications replenishment (which are always limited) along with that pilot fatigue is also an major issue.

For LCA,
If IAF decided to shift Tejas from lowermost Indian point to Leh AFB than they will use their drop tanks (2x 1200 liter + 1x 750 liter) and 1 IFR may also required to ferry the aircraft.

If jet have capability to ferry the whole distance in one go than why should they land for refueling.

If you still believe that

Than you should decide the side of stupidity...

Good Day..

 

[Chinmoy]

I think we have gone a lot with this ferry range thing. As far as I remember one of a flying officer saying once regarding this,

"The maximum distance a aircraft (fighter) travels at a cruising altitude on a cruising speed with a clean configuration is the ferry range of the aircraft."

Now I donot remember each and every word of his, but do remember this clean config and cruising altitude clearly. So base on this it would always be a debate that whether we should consider drop tanks attached to be a clean config or not. Moreover with what @shiphone has attached previously regarding F-16, I do believe that ferry range of any fighter aircraft depends on user perception.

 

[TPFscopes]

The below pic Describing many comparison aspects including Ferry Range.
And the best part is that this chart was presented by the LCA's developers.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Updates from BR by Indranil :

1. The supersonic tanks and the 800 ltr tanks are coming up for various tests by the end of the year before actual flight testing.

2. The lowest speed for LCA Mk1 is below the 120 knots that has been put up on that chart. They are regularly flying below that number now. Don't ask further, won't tell.

3. The AUW for the LCA AF Mk2 in that chart is approximately correct.
4. The climb rate of LCA is wrong. Don't ask further, won't tell.
5. The (unrefueled) ferry range is currently not 3000 kms, but they are going to plumb the midboard pylons as well. You are speaking of 4000 ltrs of extra fuel. At that point 3000 kms will be.

6. Note the maximum payload of Mk1. It is not exactly 4000 kg, but pretty close.
7. The uninstalled thrust on Mk1, Mk2 and the Gripen are all wrong.
8. Mk2 is going to +9G capable

=============

Few points need to be noticed, The chart has some errors and its outdated ..

The below pic Describing many comparison aspects including Ferry Range.
And the best part is that this chart was presented by the LCA's developers.