ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[lcafanboy]

What do you mean by safran cores? That is same as safran engine with minor modifications. Also, safran core is 75kN thrust

LCA MK1A could get 65/98KN Kaveri engine with Safran core. Remember they have Snecma M-88 4E which gives 60/90 KN power. Same core will go into Kaveri to pump out 65/98 KN.......... Eliminating GE414 need........

So LCA MK1A could itself be what LCA MK2 was envisioned and LCA MK2 would come with stealth features as Gripen-E........... If this is true then It is very good news for LCA Tejas.........

 

[Sidd]

LCA MK1A could get 65/98KN Kaveri engine with Safran core. Remember they have Snecma M-88 4E which gives 60/90 KN power. Same core will go into Kaveri to pump out 65/98 KN.......... Eliminating GE414 need........

So LCA MK1A could itself be what LCA MK2 was envisioned and LCA MK2 would come with stealth features as Gripen-E........... If this is true then It is very good news for LCA Tejas.........

Do you think MoD or IAF will buy more Tejas after 2030...we need replacement for at least 360-410 af i.e. 110 jags,250-300
migs.. So 9sq of Rafale,10 of Tejas and 6sq of SE...then AMCA..no more MK2 for IAF
And yes we lost Kavari here too..I just hope Rafale with come with ToT promised in the original MCRA

 

[lcafanboy]

Do you think MoD or IAF will buy more Tejas after 2030...we need replacement for at least 360-410 af i.e. 110 jags,250-300

Maybe yes as LCA would have evolved into LCA stealth aka MK2 and could remain relevant till 2050. So you may never know. Did US envisioned in 1972 that F-16 will remain relevant even after 2000? But it is as it has evolved from block A to Block 70.......... Similarly LCA is being evolved from LCA MK1 to MK1A to Improve MK1A and could evolve into stealthy LCA MK2 with conformal bays & tanks, powerful engines, bigger Air frame..........

 

[TPFscopes]

What do you mean by safran cores? That is same as safran engine with minor modifications. Also, safran core is 75kN thrust

If the news is true than sad news for Kaveri..

We already discussed this topic may times and everytime I said that the output will be Safranized Kaveri ( i.e. French modified Kaveri), not Kaverized M88 ( indian Specific M88)
The design will be from GTRE where as some (very few in numbers) components are from safran to provide endurance and stability to the engine.

 

[soikot banerjee]

Anyways as of now all people who have closely followed the LCA programme and knows the significance of it admire that it is a successfull programme but MSM and Hollywood fanboys claim it is a failue, once a contract for amother four squadron is signed it will put rest to that claim too.

Now the question arises are the following:
1. UTTAM was meant for Mk-2, let's say if Mk-2 is not going to come, where will UTTAM find itself, obviously it can't be put to rest too?
2. Can Mk1a be able to upgrade to the new indigenous EW suite in future upgrade?

 

[varun9509]

Also if there's going to be upgraded Kaveri engine, can we see more prospects for NLCA inducting in Navy. I would really dance balle balle if that happens.

Sent from my YU5510 using Tapatalk

 

[Armand2REP]

What do you mean by safran cores? That is same as safran engine with minor modifications. Also, safran core is 75kN thrust

That core has potential to run at 105kn, it has been confirmed on the bench. France did not want to use it at that power because it decreased the hours of serviceability and consumed more fuel. The goal of the programme was to improve service and economy by 15%, not decrease by that amount. With some funding they can get it more economical but we just weren't willing to spend on it without an export customer, ie UAE who required it.

 

[Vijyes]

Anyways as of now all people who have closely followed the LCA programme and knows the significance of it admire that it is a successfull programme but MSM and Hollywood fanboys claim it is a failue, once a contract for amother four squadron is signed it will put rest to that claim too.

Now the question arises are the following:
1. UTTAM was meant for Mk-2, let's say if Mk-2 is not going to come, where will UTTAM find itself, obviously it can't be put to rest too?
2. Can Mk1a be able to upgrade to the new indigenous EW suite in future upgrade?

After 2025, only MK2A and AMCA will be in the focus. MK1A will be sidelined or just used for minor purposes. MK2 and AMCA will be the mainstay of India. Su30 will also lose its charm

All the Uttam, EW, IRST etc will work on both AMCA anf MK2. They are extremely important to be junked

 

[Vijyes]

Do you think MoD or IAF will buy more Tejas after 2030...we need replacement for at least 360-410 af i.e. 110 jags,250-300
migs.. So 9sq of Rafale,10 of Tejas and 6sq of SE...then AMCA..no more MK2 for IAF
And yes we lost Kavari here too..I just hope Rafale with come with ToT promised in the original MCRA

What do you want to convey? You are garbling my head. I am unable to understand what you mean. What is wrong with 30 squadron Tejas and 30 squadron AMCA?

 

[Vijyes]

Well I have seen the complete post on IDF.If IAF and MoD are buying more Rafale(180). I was expecting no to SE af like f16 or gripen..and at least 350 number of Tejas series jet..
Sad news Tejas MK2 will die for IAF I guess...

Why do you think that way? Rafale orders were a foregone conclusion, not for the plane but for ToT of Kaveri engine. I don't understand why you would think that Rafale would provide you with engine for measly 36 - 72 planes? Minimum 100 orders is needed

 

[Sidd]

What do you want to convey? You are garbling my head. I am unable to understand what you mean. What is wrong with 30 squadron Tejas and 30 squadron AMCA?

I was responding to this
""
SOURCE BASED NEWS

• Following the ongoing tussle for more planes of IAF choice in TE and MOD choice of SE, a midway has been arrived as of now.
• The Plan for Rafale Bases as per the meeting is as below
  • IAF has requested the a total of 7 bases for Rafale (3 West facing, 2 East , 2 South/Central for swing role.)
  • MOD has pruned it down to 5 bases for Rafale (3 West facing with at least one located deeper towards south/central and 2 East facing)
  • The Original 7 bases has a scope to house a total of 14 sqds (~250+) but the same has been now pruned to first filling each base with 1 sqd and then supplementing them with the 2nd sqd.
  • Certain bases may house additional sqds subject to space availability.
  • This has pruned the plan to 10-12 sqds.
  • First 3 bases will be via the off the shelf orders
  • Next 2 via MII with rest of the jets being assembled and components produced in DRAL
• In Return MOD has convinced IAF for the following
  • A total of 6 sqds to begin with for SE
  • Additional scope of 2+1 sqds - 3 more after delivery review of 3-4 squads.
  • Primarily based for Forward bases in Western Sector and will free up MKI to move much deeper
  • Out of 6-9 squads, 1 squad is being explored for direct import as well.
• Also IAF and MOD discussed for LCA MK1A
  • MOD also made categorically clear that post MK1A 1 squadron handover, a fresh order of 3-4 more squadrons ( 60-80) will be placed as well.
  • IAF has clearly said they look at Kaveri with Safran core for maximum LCAs and wants to pursue it further
  • Further MOD/GOI and IAF both have been soft on HAL in last 3 years and now want to see if HAL can deliver the present new promises.
  • The new milestones/reviews /priority points are
    • Achieving FOC soon.
    • Showing good progress on MK1A project.
    • Increasing the production speed. to 16/year and further ensuring local ecosystem in place for 24/year rate achievement
    • Addressing issues in the presently delivered aircrafts and rectifying the mistakes.
    • Changing the way issues raised has been addressed in the past with more professional approach and time-bound SLAs adherence
• About FGFA and super MKI,
  • The timeline for fresh review and scope is now considered only after Super Upgrade line installation and commencement of batch updation of MKIs
  • After the upgradation of approx 5-6 squadrons from Russia and HAL, FGFA production is envisioned.
  • A scope of 2-2.5 more squadrons at Super MKI configuration is also proposed with planes getting French and Israeli systems at HAL post delivery off the shelf as well.
  • This small batch is proposed to replace very old airframes which may not get selected for Super upgrade and will be relegated to training purposes only ""
    
    
    This was posted by PARIKRAMA in Indian Defence Forum which was reposted by user LCA-FANBOY here..if we take this info to be true than we would be getting 9 sq of Rafale,6sq of SE(F16) and 9-10sq of LCA by 2030...& I sincerely wish to see more Tejas and AMCA in our Airforce..

 

[Sidd]

Why do you think that way? Rafale orders were a foregone conclusion, not for the plane but for ToT of Kaveri engine. I don't understand why you would think that Rafale would provide you with engine for measly 36 - 72 planes? Minimum 100 orders is needed

I don't mind getting 100-180 Rafale if we are getting Kaveri fixed but then MoD should stop this SE tender drama..

 

[Armand2REP]

I don't mind getting 100-180 Rafale if we are getting Kaveri fixed but then MoD should stop this SE tender drama..

The only reason they start them is to get leverage in negotiations on the products they really want. It doesn't cost them anything and the companies dumb enough to bid are out millions.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Updates from BR by Indranil :

1. The supersonic tanks and the 800 ltr tanks are coming up for various tests by the end of the year before actual flight testing.

2. The lowest speed for LCA Mk1 is below the 120 knots that has been put up on that chart. They are regularly flying below that number now. Don't ask further, won't tell.

3. The AUW for the LCA AF Mk2 in that chart is approximately correct.
4. The climb rate of LCA is wrong. Don't ask further, won't tell.
5. The (unrefueled) ferry range is currently not 3000 kms, but they are going to plumb the midboard pylons as well. You are speaking of 4000 ltrs of extra fuel. At that point 3000 kms will be.

6. Note the maximum payload of Mk1. It is not exactly 4000 kg, but pretty close.
7. The uninstalled thrust on Mk1, Mk2 and the Gripen are all wrong.
8. Mk2 is going to +9G capable

 

[Pulkit]

Updates from BR by Indranil :

1. The supersonic tanks and the 800 ltr tanks are coming up for various tests by the end of the year before actual flight testing.

2. The lowest speed for LCA Mk1 is below the 120 knots that has been put up on that chart. They are regularly flying below that number now. Don't ask further, won't tell.

3. The AUW for the LCA AF Mk2 in that chart is approximately correct.
4. The climb rate of LCA is wrong. Don't ask further, won't tell.
5. The (unrefueled) ferry range is currently not 3000 kms, but they are going to plumb the midboard pylons as well. You are speaking of 4000 ltrs of extra fuel. At that point 3000 kms will be.

6. Note the maximum payload of Mk1. It is not exactly 4000 kg, but pretty close.
7. The uninstalled thrust on Mk1, Mk2 and the Gripen are all wrong.
8. Mk2 is going to +9G capable

Thanks ...
I heard from an old friend yesterday he knows someone in HAL. They said the FOC is not at priority right now. Is it true that they have put FOC at back burner?
Secondly Production rate is not improving and many are unhappy with the private venders. Where as other sources(articles) say HAL is planning to inc rate with the help of private venders. So you or anyone has any any insight ?

 

[Pulkit]

I don't mind getting 100-180 Rafale if we are getting Kaveri fixed but then MoD should stop this SE tender drama..

100-180 Rafale ???? How are you gonna Pay for it? How are you gonna Maintain them?
Yes this Drama must come to an end. Kaveri will be fixed in time and will be used for Tejas . Fingers crossed.

 

[Pulkit]

Why do you think that way? Rafale orders were a foregone conclusion, not for the plane but for ToT of Kaveri engine. I don't understand why you would think that Rafale would provide you with engine for measly 36 - 72 planes? Minimum 100 orders is needed

see even if they promise you they are not gonna give you anything for any number of aircrafts you order. NO ONE IS GIVING YOU ENGINE TECHNOLOGY.
What we are here doing is trying to get some consultancy using which we can ourselves overcome the hurdles and limitations of our engine.

Remember Kaveri has been tested once. There is a issue to power it generate but as they say it will improve with time.
Reliability is another area where I am not sure how Kaveri is rated.

 

[S.Balaji]

This was posted by PARIKRAMA in Indian Defence Forum which was reposted by user LCA-FANBOY here..if we take this info to be true than we would be getting 9 sq of Rafale,6sq of SE(F16) and 9-10sq of LCA by 2030...& I sincerely wish to see more Tejas and AMCA in our Airforce..

Ahem...ahem.....do we have the money to buy all this foreign maal like f16 n more rafale and then have money to invest in MK2, and still have money to invest in amca. I think in the excitement we forgot MKIed Su57....do we still have money for the only prospective 5th gen fighter we can field against China within next 5yrs?

 

[soikot banerjee]

Ahem...ahem.....do we have the money to buy all this foreign maal like f16 n more rafale and then have money to invest in MK2, and still have money to invest in amca. I think in the excitement we forgot MKIed Su57....do we still have money for the only prospective 5th gen fighter we can field against China within next 5yrs?

Won't be surprised if the SE deal is scrapped and more Rafales come in!

 

[S.Balaji]

If u ask an IAF guy, he would say our current inventory will suffice against PAF...Against China we lost our qualitative edge (su30mki) due to the advent of j20/31...IAF plans to make it for lost ground via fgfa/MKIed Su-57....

So don't know where in the scheme of things another se fighter n more expensive rafale fit except to makeup for fighter strength.if that is the case then Instead it would be prudent to order cheaper su30mki n more Tejas mk1A to make up for the shortfall. If mmrca tender process is anything to go buy, if an RFI is raised before the end of the year for an SE fighter then we will have an obsolete SE fighter in 2028 by which time we will HV MK2 rolling off assembly lines in squadern strenght.

Currently the trend witnessed world wide is airforces are curtailing their aircraft no's...US with f22.....Russia with pakfa ...due to very high cost and here we have India bucking the trend...interestingly both countries HV used airforces very recently in conflicts.