ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Pulkit]

I am in :biggrin2: lets get DM answer some straight questions , lets ask Rajat Sharma to get DM in aap ki adalat and ask him, why, when and for what?

Going offtrack but important here....


I know that the current DM is much more dedicated than the last one who sat doing nothing for over an decade and pushed Indian Defense into an pitiable situation.
His policy No Deal No scam .

I know his response "DEFENSE ISSUES CANNOT BE DISCUSSED WITH CIVILIANS" ignoring the fact we pay taxes to support our defense not for the bureaucrat and politicians to have FUN....

Lets stick to Twitter if possible.

Actually more then this, it would be better to hit them hard with hard facts. Politics have the ability to wriggle itself out by fooling layman. But with facts like those provided by @ersakthivel , we should counter them.
But sadly I am not aware of any such platform if it does exist.

Facts about defense are best known to defense services only. We can only complain and hope they hear and feel responsible and accountable to them

 

[Pulkit]

Add FGFA too in the soup. .

IAF is hell bent on including 200 single engine fighter to replace Mig-21. No way they would leave their baby (F-16/ Gripen) go away. And Arup Raha moreover indicated that they may go for more Rafales, i.e. MMRCA short of twin engine fighters.

That's the disaster we are gonna commit... 4-5 types of aircraft in force with no interchangeability...


Maintenance cost gonna be sky high........

 

[Chinmoy]

Facts about defense are best known to defense services only. We can only complain and hope they hear and feel responsible and accountable to them

Well, I am not saying them to divulge their doctrine or some super secret deals over here. By facts I am simply pointing to ground facts on which they are supporting 50's tech over 80's tech. Things like why they can't go for Tejas in numbers and what is the point in pushing its FOC with one demand after another? Can't IAF simply go down the road like other air force around the world? Gradual upgradation of platforms.
I mean look at the FOC parameters for Tejas. It should have AESA, Refuellling probe, HUD and what not. It even has to fire Python and Derby which is a relatively new acquisition on part of IAF. I am sure that by next year they would ask for integration of Meteor and thrust vectoring for FOC. Now all of these are good to have in an Aircraft, but they would have to know this hard fact that Tejas was meant primarily to replace Mig-21, not to compete a 5th fighter. These RADAR and weapon upgradation could be carried out in its life time too. And a fighter which you have conceived as an interceptor, why you need refueling probe in it at first place? If you want it to perform strike mission, then it could be upgraded into later version too.

 

[LordOfTheUnderworlds]

This new tender reminds me how first Shiv-Sena BJP government came in power in Maharashtra by viciously targeting congress and especially Sharad Pawar over Enron Project and Land grabbing. After coming to power they created a drama by cancelling the Enron project. Then the Enron people went to Bal Thackeray's residence, and Enron project came back with even larger contract, in a few years time sending the state government in financial crisis, which was avoided through shear luck as the American parent company became bankrupt and was entangled in litigation. Also the all local SS men started land grabbing and other things.
If the news is true, looks like this government has made deal with dalal lobby.

 

[ersakthivel]

I am in :biggrin2: lets get DM answer some straight questions , lets ask Rajat Sharma to get DM in aap ki adalat and ask him, why, when and for what?

#AskDM good tag , lets do it, You start, it we will all follow it,

lets tweet with some of these stunning pictures, to attract more attention!!

 

[kstriya]

#AskDM good tag , lets do it, You start, it we will all follow it,

lets tweet with some of these stunning pictures, to attract more attention!!

I do not have a twitter handle for myself but I will create one and have this #AskDM as its first task.

 

[dude00720]

Before you want to get into Twitter Let us summarise a few things.

Tejas MK1A - 120 units requested by IAF
Tejas MK2 = Saab Gripen NG being discussed.

Tejas people believe that F-16/18 or even Gripen Deal will be the end of Tejas MK2.
So far, in terms of ToT - No one has offered engine Technology.[ My view, will not happen].

So, #AskDM should focus on, asking why are we buying new aircraft when Tejas MK1 is already operational[Not FOC] .

Feel free to add or correct, if we I have missed anything or said anything wrong. I think if right questions are asked, then, Govt will have better leverage with armed forces. Let us put the technology data out.

I'm seeing a lot of activity on youtube, with new channels trying to rubbish Tejas.

 

[cannonfodder]

I am in with #AskDM. People who care please chime in; its our right as well as responsibility. At most, DM Parrikar will not heed to our queries.

@kstriya @Indx TechStyle @Chinmoy @Pulkit @Rahul Singh

 

[Certified Gipsy]

Source?????

And 30 characters?

Ask Mr. @ersakthivel regarding MTBO tests. He is more informed about that.

That is why it's important to post sources when you post on the forums

Regarding GRTE building 20 more Kaveri engines at 80kN, here is the tender and actual details in the attached pdf.
http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/tenders/viewTender.jsp?paramMicro=11203

Read the pdf carefully! These are aero gas turbines and NOT Kaveri Marine Gas Turbines or Ghatak, which means these are kaveri engines built for fighter jets and not for ships or UAVs.

Regarding K9+ and K10, read this!
http://www.defenceupdate.in/dawn-jet-engine-indigenization-india-kaveri/

In addition to this, kaveri engine is also being upgraded and diversified for other applications.
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-pape...n-radar-says-drdo-official/article8661571.ece

So, please stop saying Kaveri engine is dead, because you know nothing about what you are talking about and you are in no way more informed than Mr. Tamilmani or DRDO or GTRE

 

[Project Dharma]

Ask Mr. @ersakthivel regarding MTBO tests. He is more informed about that.


Regarding GRTE building 20 more Kaveri engines at 80kN, here is the tender and actual details in the attached pdf.
http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/tenders/viewTender.jsp?paramMicro=11203

Read the pdf carefully! These are aero gas turbines and NOT Kaveri Marine Gas Turbines or Ghatak, which means these are kaveri engines built for fighter jets and not for ships or UAVs.

Regarding K9+ and K10, read this!
http://www.defenceupdate.in/dawn-jet-engine-indigenization-india-kaveri/

In addition to this, kaveri engine is also being upgraded and diversified for other applications.
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-pape...n-radar-says-drdo-official/article8661571.ece

So, please stop saying Kaveri engine is dead, because you know nothing about what you are talking about and you are in no way more informed than Mr. Tamilmani or DRDO or GTRE

If you're talking to me, then I freely admit to knowing nothing about Kaveri. I enjoy reading your well written posts and follow you on twitter as well. I posted those Tweets because they were relevant to this thread and was hoping someone more informed like yourself could elaborate.

 

[Certified Gipsy]

If you're talking to me, then I freely admit to knowing nothing about Kaveri. I enjoy reading your well written posts and follow you on twitter as well. I posted those Tweets because they were relevant to this thread and was hoping someone more informed like yourself could elaborate.

Not you. I was responding to Defcon 1 for his comments, where he had said that Kaveri is dead and never to be revived. I just quoted your tweets as these were from ersakthivel where he said that Kevri was undergoing MTBO tests. Sorry for the confusion.

Kaveri is dead, never to be revived. Two successor programs exists, with status unclear. They are not kaveri. This is why I said there is no relation between single engine fighter RFI and Kaveri

 

[Certified Gipsy]

Not you. I was responding to Defcon 1 for his comments.

Now only this was remaining.............

Boeing says IAF inquiry for twin-engine fighter coming soon, hopes to build 200 in India

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...pes-to-build-200-in-india-116110301446_1.html

It is just plain lobbying. This is how these arms industries work. By extensive use of media to give such ambiguous request of interest, citing some unnamed sources from IAF.

 

[Defcon 1]

Ask Mr. @ersakthivel regarding MTBO tests. He is more informed about that.


Regarding GRTE building 20 more Kaveri engines at 80kN, here is the tender and actual details in the attached pdf.
http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/tenders/viewTender.jsp?paramMicro=11203

Read the pdf carefully! These are aero gas turbines and NOT Kaveri Marine Gas Turbines or Ghatak, which means these are kaveri engines built for fighter jets and not for ships or UAVs.

Regarding K9+ and K10, read this!
http://www.defenceupdate.in/dawn-jet-engine-indigenization-india-kaveri/

In addition to this, kaveri engine is also being upgraded and diversified for other applications.
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-pape...n-radar-says-drdo-official/article8661571.ece

So, please stop saying Kaveri engine is dead, because you know nothing about what you are talking about and you are in no way more informed than Mr. Tamilmani or DRDO or GTRE

What is Kaveri. Its GTX-35VS. This is dead.

K9+ and K10 are not Kaveri. They are the successor projects of Kaveri.

Source: The Ailing India, by Colonel Y Udaya Chandar
Your own article says this:

The Kaveri engine program now stands delinked from the Tejas fighter aircraft project and it is planned to use an upgraded version of Kaveri – K9+ and K10 to meet the needs of the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) that is now being developed as a follow up to Tejas by the Bangalore based Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) of DRDO.

K10 is not Kaveri. Its is successor engine of Kaveri for AMCA. Timeline of AMCA is 2030.
Secondly, this is GTRE's own project. No engine has been chosen for AMCA yet.

Ghatak is another spinoff

This is Mr. Tamilmani's statement in the article quoted by you.

There is potential for derivatives of the Kaveri engine to be used for strategic purposes and other programmes. For anything in future that requires a 50-kilo-Newton engine [& its multiples,] here is a readily available one. Only a few engineering adaptations are required

Note the line on derivative of Kaveri.

Every engine ever made by GTRE in future won't be Kaveri. Kaveri was the engine meant to power LCA. Try and understand these small things before replying.

Anyways, I believe we are delving too much into semantics now:
I will do a concise conclusion here:
GTX-35VS Kaveri is dead
K9+ and K10 continue as GTRE projects.
Engine for AMCA has not been chosen
Kaveri successors are aimed at 2030 timeline.
There is no relation between single engine RFI and Kaveri/K9+/K10 projects.

Kindly reply only if you have anything against the conclusion only. I don't want get into the discussion of whether kaveri can be called dead because the derivatives continue. That discussion is pretty useless.

 

[Certified Gipsy]

^^

cant u read? Kp and K10 are upgraded versions of Kaveri with better thrust. And yet youc all Kaveri engine is dead. Uhh!

 

[Defcon 1]

^^

cant u read? Kp and K10 are upgraded versions of Kaveri with better thrust. And yet youc all Kaveri engine is dead. Uhh!

Read the last line of my previous post man. If your only aim is to win the argument, you win.


Anyways, the whole point of discussion was to highlight that there is no relation between single engine RFI and Kaveri (or its successors). We have gone massively off topic here.

 

[sasum]

If its for the Mission Computer, then we are using 2 Intel 80386 processors, dual core.

I think i386 is a single core processor. In fact it was the first 32 bit CPU. GPUs on the other hand contain several parallel co-processors dedicated to do memory intensive calculations involving vectors and matrices. NVIDIA was the first company to bring out a chip dedicated exclusively to processing of graphics rendering instruction sets. Intel is not known to make GPUs. All its processors 286, 386, 486, Pentium are CPUs with some part of memory set aside for graphics related instructions.
@Dark Sorrow

 

[republic_roi97]

So, MK1A will have Elta EL/M-2052 AESA radar or is it gonna be a indianized variant of it ?
Also why doesn't India get the entire tech and know how of 2052 AESA ? China is believed to have bought the israeli know how of radar and one of their planes, we surely have a better relation with them.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

I think i386 is a single core processor. In fact it was the first 32 bit CPU. GPUs on the other hand contain several parallel co-processors dedicated to do memory intensive calculations involving vectors and matrices. NVIDIA was the first company to bring out a chip dedicated exclusively to processing of graphics rendering instruction sets. Intel is not known to make GPUs. All its processors 286, 386, 486, Pentium are CPUs with some part of memory set aside for graphics related instructions.
@Dark Sorrow

Sir, I like to correct you a little. i386 in toady's world is a class of instruction set/family of processor. Even the ultra modern i7 processor can be considered as i386 class processor. i386 is a generic term used to denote backward compability of processors.
Intel also makes GPU namely Intel Iris Graphics (currently generation) which are integrated into their processor (iGPU - Integrated GPU). They don't make dedicated GPUs. Their iGPUs are good for day to day activity but fall short during heavy use.

You don't need an high end processor for an mission control computer (Special-Purpose Computers).
Unlike our house old computers, the mission computer is just programmed to do one (or few) particular task repeatedly, hence a tightly integrated system is used.
Reliability is paramount in case of mission computer.

I have seen a few cases where an ARM Cortex M4F based micro-controller has performed better than i3 processor equipped with PCI based data acquisition cards specifically when it comes to hardware control.
Similar is the case with mission computer where tight integration and reliability matters more than high end processors.
As for graphics for an Special Purpose Computer or Embedded System you don't need an high end GPU. Such computer don't generally offer full color range or are graphic intensive. A dedicated moderate graphic engine will suffice.

 

[kstriya]

30 character rule sucks.........

 

[wuzetian]

Ask Mr. @ersakthivel regarding MTBO tests. He is more informed about that.


Regarding GRTE building 20 more Kaveri engines at 80kN, here is the tender and actual details in the attached pdf.
http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/tenders/viewTender.jsp?paramMicro=11203

Read the pdf carefully! These are aero gas turbines and NOT Kaveri Marine Gas Turbines or Ghatak, which means these are kaveri engines built for fighter jets and not for ships or UAVs.

Regarding K9+ and K10, read this!
http://www.defenceupdate.in/dawn-jet-engine-indigenization-india-kaveri/

In addition to this, kaveri engine is also being upgraded and diversified for other applications.
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-pape...n-radar-says-drdo-official/article8661571.ece

So, please stop saying Kaveri engine is dead, because you know nothing about what you are talking about and you are in no way more informed than Mr. Tamilmani or DRDO or GTRE

What is MTBO ?kindly enlighten me , is it some kind of ordnance