ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Rahul Singh]

Exactly, various simulation test must have reveled that MK-1 can't fly off carriers. This is why ADA will try to fly only MK-2 or re-engined LCA from carriers.

 

[nrj]

Why dont we can have a shore based facility for AC lift in the Eastern Front so we can use the aircraft without any carriers from the shore. Is that possible?

SBTF will be mostly used for Training purpose. With IN looking forward to have 300 fighters. Keeping the pilots trained on regular & special missions will be primary thing. And ofcourse N-AMCA happy_2 if developed, testing platform will be ready. For deployment of fighters, we can use other runways. IN should grab some good runway funds along with IAF .....

 

[vijay jagannathan]

Okay guys. Accoridng to latest reports in the business standard the LCA is likely to undergo crtical flight testing like high AA(angle of attack or Alpha Testing). Well its about time they got down to business. This indicates the full flight envelope of Tejas has not been completely opened/developed as of yet and this could well take upto a year to perfect and iron out.

The AA or alpha being tested is upto 28 degree which is the basic minimum but according to the report a IAF test pilot has acknowledged that the air intakes of the Tejas are NOT well designed and can cause problems. The Alpha of gripen is between 50-55 degrees accoring to their testing programme document and it cleared 28 degrees in 2002.

This is where testing gets real and aircraft can be lost. There has been a lot of comments regarding the airintakes of tejas. why it has not been addressed or atleast defended remains to be seen. lets pray that the Tejas continues on a positive note. If it stalls and falls out of the sky we might see a not very bright future for tejas though we would have learnt a lot from it.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Testing times ahead for HAL: ARDC prepares for dangerous Tejas and IJT flight tests

by Ajai Shukla
HAL, Bangalore
Business Standard, 5th July 10

The Russian designers stared transfixed at the monitor as the model of India's Sitara Intermediate Jet Trainer (IJT) went into a spin, rotating like a fan uncontrollably. Despite every attempt to straighten it out with the aircraft controls, the Sitara kept spinning. If this had been a real flight, rather than just a "spin tunnel" test in Russia, both pilots in the Sitara would have died as the uncontrollable trainer smashed into the ground.

Instead, Indian designers at the Aircraft R&D Centre (ARDC) in Bangalore --- which is designing and testing the Sitara --- have tweaked the Sitara's aerodynamics until it has passed the "spin tunnel" test.

But now, Chief Test Pilot Baldev Singh has to actually test-fly the Sitara, deliberately throwing the trainer into a hair-raising spin and then coaxing it into level flight again.

Only after that can the Indian Air Force use the Sitara to teach rookie pilots the vital skills needed to recover an aircraft from a spin. During training, IAF instructors will put the IJT into a spin and then hand over controls to the trainee, allowing him or her to stabilise the aircraft.

These are literally testing times at the ARDC, a unit of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, which is preparing for several risky test flights that will determine the success or failure of its key projects.

Although the Sitara has cleared the "spin tunnel" test in Russia, that is no guarantee that the Sitara will recover from its first real life spin. Therefore, to minimise the risk to the test pilot, a special parachute is being fitted on the aircraft's tail, which the pilot opens if he is unable to recover from a spin. Acting as an aerodynamic drag, the parachute retards the spin, allowing the pilot to recover control.

"There are always uncertainties in testing something for the first time", explains HRS Prasad, the General Manager of ARDC. "So we make doubly sure there is a system that will enable (the pilot) to recover from a potentially disastrous situation. But we are confident of demonstrating that the Sitara can recover from a spin"¦ that is a basic requirement for a trainer."

Even more dangerous are the flight tests ahead for the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), to demonstrate its ability to handle higher angles of attack, or Alpha, as the designers call it. Simply put, a flying aircraft's angle of attack is the angle it makes, nose to tail, with the horizontal. A high Alpha provides several benefits to a fighter, especially letting it fly slower to land on shorter runways.

The Tejas has currently tested an Alpha of just 22-24 degrees, and will go up gradually to 28 degrees. But flying a higher Alpha risks stalling the fighter; its engine could go off (or flame out, as pilots call it) leaving the Tejas --- without propulsion power, or electrical and hydraulic power for its fly-by-wire controls --- to fall out of the sky like a stone.

To guard against that, the ARDC is fitting a test Tejas with a fast-response power pack that US company, Honeywell, manufactures for such flight-testing. Within milliseconds of the Tejas main engine going off, the hydrogen-operated power pack starts up, providing power to the fighter's hydraulic and electrical systems, and re-lighting the main engine.

"In flying a single-engine aircraft, there is no bigger emergency than a flame-out", says a former Tejas test pilot. "But no fighter engine should flame out at just 28 degrees Alpha. However, the Tejas air intakes have not been well designed and, as the Alpha increases, the intakes constrict the airflow, and the engine dies for want of air."

In contrast to the Tejas' maximum Alpha of 28 degrees, India's Sukhoi-30MKI can comfortably handle an Alpha of over 50 degrees. The US Navy F/A-18 Super Hornet can manage an Alpha of 58 degrees.

The Tejas flight test programme, India's first such testing process, has been controversial, with critics charging that the slow speed of testing has delayed the Tejas' induction into service. On the positive side, the Tejas testing has given birth to the National Flight Test Centre (NFTC), a test facility that is of global standard. The Aeronautics Development Agency (ADA), which oversees the Tejas' development, has now engaged European aerospace giant, EADS, to advise on how to speed up testing.

"We have to proceed cautiously", the Tejas programme director, PS Subramaniam told Business Standard while witnessing a test last year. "We have managed to come so far without a single mishap. An accident would seriously damage the credibility of the Tejas programme."

 

[Rahul Singh]

Experienced chill through spine remembering past when HAL had lost HT-2 after it failed to recover from spin and HJT-16 Kiran which stalled during high AoA test.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Some videos


1. Showing SPIN-CONTROL INPUTS verbal. Excellent music in background to make it feel like easy but don't be mistaken its the toughest.


2. Showing flat spin and recovery at very very low altitude. Daring Pilot!


3. A mix of high AOA pull followed by Tail Slide followed by 90*AoA flight and stall. Looks like Flanker, which one don't know.

 

[Rahul Singh]

And this one is comprehensive.

 

[luckyy]

Testing times ahead for HAL: ARDC prepares for dangerous Tejas and IJT flight tests

by Ajai Shukla
HAL, Bangalore
Business Standard, 5th July 10

The Tejas has currently tested an Alpha of just 22-24 degrees, and will go up gradually to 28 degrees. But flying a higher Alpha risks stalling the fighter; its engine could go off (or flame out, as pilots call it) leaving the Tejas --- without propulsion power, or electrical and hydraulic power for its fly-by-wire controls --- to fall out of the sky like a stone.


In contrast to the Tejas' maximum Alpha of 28 degrees, India's Sukhoi-30MKI can comfortably handle an Alpha of over 50 degrees. The US Navy F/A-18 Super Hornet can manage an Alpha of 58 degrees.

."

how cradible this information is that "Sukhoi-30MKI can comfortably handle an Alpha of over 50 degrees. The US Navy F/A-18 Super Hornet can manage an Alpha of 58 degrees." where as
In contrast Tejas' maximum Alpha of 28 degrees only

???


anyway tommoro is the day for neval LCA..

best of luck...

 

[nandu]

Indian Navy's first indigenous Light Combat Aircraft to roll out tomorrow

New Delhi: India is all set to roll out its indigenous naval Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) at the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) facility in Bangalore on Tuesday, which will be witnessed by Defence Minister A K Antony.

"The first indigenous naval Light Combat Aircraft , the LCA (Navy) NP1, is scheduled to roll out from HAL Aircraft Research and Design Centre (ARDC) hanger on July 6," a Defence Minister official said on Monday.

An important milestone for the naval programme of Bangalore-based Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), the aircraft would be brought out of the hanger where it was assembled part-by-part during the roll-out.

Navy Chief Admiral Nirmal Verma will be the chief guest at the event. The aircraft is being readied for induction into the Navy and for deployment on board the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC), currently under construction at the Cochin Shipyard, by 2015.

Following the roll-out, the Naval LCA, with state-of-the-art technologies and punch, will be ready for the phase of systems integration tests leading to ground runs, taxi trials and flight trials.
Once the ground based tests are completed , the 'NP1' is expected to fly by the end of this year and the NP2 is likely to fly by the end of 2011.

The government had sanctioned the LCA (Navy) programme in 2003 and the first stage of development included design and fabrication of a trainer and a fighter, NP1 and NP2 respectively, along with a Shore Based Test Facility (SBTF) at Goa naval air base, which has already come up.

The SBTF is being used to simulate carrier take off and arrested landing and as a training facility for future pilots of the naval LCA. It is also being used for training on the newly acquired MiG-29K fighter jets, bought from Russia to be operated on the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier, which is under a repair and refit programme in a Russian shipyard.


http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/i...ht-combat-aircraft-to-roll-out-tomorrow-35678

 

[nandu]

LCA Navy: July 6 launch in Bangalore

First 3 photos are models and last 2 preperations ahead of roll out inside the hangar.

http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/

 

[EagleOne]

schedule

 

[Rahul Singh]

This indicates the full flight envelope of Tejas has not been completely opened/developed as of yet and this could well take upto a year to perfect and iron out.

If it had been done already Tejas would have got IOC tag. Testing jet for high alpha is always critical and risky and traditionally kept at very lower the down list of test flights. This is done so in this manner because testing team want be sure of jet's dependable flight control system as well as fully aware of its behavior or flight characteristics during all most all required maneuvers.

The AA or alpha being tested is upto 28 degree which is the basic minimum

Its not basic minimum for a delta executing sustained flight(flying parallel to 'x' axis)! 28* AoA is way too high for sustained flight and you only require them during making tight turns or while escort casing very very slow movers like helicopters or trying to land on very very small strip..........12* - 16* alpha(sustained) is sufficient for a delta like Tejas to land on decently long runway.

but according to the report a IAF test pilot has acknowledged that the air intakes of the Tejas are NOT well designed and can cause problems.

What looks like curse can also be seen as a boon in the sense that those tiny air intakes almost entirely hide turbine blades of engine further reducing RCS of already hard to see jet.

Yes small size of intakes is a problem and affects acceleration and top speed negatively. But what can you do when you are not sure and you pay for consultancy to giant like Dassault which guides you design those problem making tiny holes. But then you can't blame Dassault alone, IAF increasing desire also affected the jet's performance negatively as it became heavy. But what done is done and there is no looking back. There are plans underway to solve the problem by cutting auxiliary air intakes(from one in IAF version to three in naval version) to replacing present with high thrust engine to drag reducing improvements in airframe. All in sum will be called LCA-MK-2.

The Alpha of gripen is between 50-55 degrees accoring to their testing programme document and it cleared 28 degrees in 2002.

50-50* can't be for sustained flight, however i'm not sure. So requesting source.

This is where testing gets real and aircraft can be lost.....If it stalls and falls out of the sky we might see a not very bright future for tejas though we would have learnt a lot from it.

Yes it can be and that all highly possible as you are exploring unknown which means there is no 100% guaranteed recoverable solution.

Yes it can stall but can't fall out simply like stone because now a days there are lot of things like advanced anti-spin chute and auxiliary power pack present to help recover or at least bring the jet home safely. However chances for worst can never be erased.

 

[vijay jagannathan]

Thanks Rahul. I will try and provide source of the JAS gripen testing doucment.
But I hope and pray that tejas Airintakes doesn't come back to haunt us. Mybe India must have gone for the DSI like China did for its JF-17.

here's a note on DSI.

The thing about Divertless Supersonic intakes is that they work in tandem with forward-swept cowls to redirect unwanted boundary layer airflow away from the inlets, in effect performing the operations of heavier, more costly and more complex mechanisms used by current fighters: such as mesoflap passive transpiration systems that reduce interaction between turbulent boundary airflow and an impinging shock by 'passively' activating mesoflaps to direct air circulation through a cavity at supersonic speeds; or active/passive riblets / MEMS (microelectromechanical systems) that make use of vortex generators, bumps, fluidic systems and mechanical or pneumatic devices to effect a laminar airflow technique. The technique with DSI is relatively simple (in aeronautical terms): it works to create a compression surface that will deviate most of the boundary layer airflow away from the air inlet intakes at speeds of upto Mach 2. The other benefit ofcourse is the relative bantam reduction in RCS by concealing the craft's engine fans.

here's the link to the Gripen test document: www.canit.se/~griffon/aviation/gripen

 

[Rahul Singh]

Tests up to an alpha of 28 degrees were concluded with the standard flight control software release which has a preliminary alpha limit of 20 degrees, above which it returns the aircraft to 20 degrees or less.

The second phase with flights up to 55 degrees alpha were conducted with a software release without any alpha limit. The third phase went beyond that, to 110 degrees alpha, while retaining controllability.

It's expected that the final alpha limit will be in the region of 50 degrees.

Mate, thanks for info.

It does't talk about sustained 50* AoA flight. What in my opinion is it saying that Gripen can pull alpha upto 50* and yet not stall. Well that what Gripen should be capable after all its SAAB's................. About that 110* alpha, i feel it is talking about tail slide.

 

[Rahul Singh]

RECOVERY PARACHUTE SYSTEM FOR LIGHT COMBAT AIRCRAFT

Recovery Parachute System for LCA

It is mandatory for a combat aircraft to demonstrate its spin recovery capability during flight test programme. The purpose of this system is to provide emergency recovery of aircraft from an inadvertent spin in case the aircraft controls are ineffective and are unable to pull it out of spin. The recovery is achieved by deployment of a parachute, which applies an anti-moment force at the rear of the out of control aircraft bringing its nose down further. This brings the aircraft into a controlled stabilized dive and helps it to come out of spin/deep stall. DRDO has developed such parachutes for the flight test of LCA. The test altitude envelope for LCA (9500 kg weight) is 2 km to 12 km. The sequence of operation is as follows:

When a drogue gun is fired, the slug mass of the drogue gun moves rearwards and sequentially deploys the pilot chute at an aircraft wake distance of 23 m. When the pilot chute is stretched, snapping of the weak tie (48 kg) separates the slug mass of the drogue gun along with deployment bag of pilot chute. The chute then inflates and consequently pulls the packed main parachute. As the pilot chute moves rearwards the main parachute deploys sequentially. As soon as the main parachute is stretched, snapping of the weak tie (100 kg) separates the pilot chute and the deployment bag of main parachute. This allows the main parachute to inflate and produce necessary drag force of 32 kN, resulting in a yawing movement of aircraft. It then steepens the flight path angle (a-angle) of the aircraft. The aircraft can then be pulled out of spin by increasing its speed. The total operational time of the system is 3 s. When the aircraft comes out of spin, pilot jettisons the parachute by operating the release mechanism. The system has various redundancy/safety devices. When the release system fails, parachute can be separated through failure of weak link by accelerating the aircraft by 30 per cent. Development work at sub-system level has been successfully completed and final qualification tests are under progress.

 

[EagleOne]

Images

Bangalore: India's first indigenous naval Light Combat Aircraft LCA (Navy) NP1 rolled out today from the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) facility in Bangalore. Navy Chief Admiral Nirmal Verma was the chief guest at the event. Defence Minister A K Antony, and other senior officials were also present on the occasion.

An important milestone for the naval programme of Bangalore-based Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), the aircraft was brought out of the build hangar where it was assembled part-by-part during.

The aircraft is being readied for induction into the Navy and for deployment on board the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC), currently under construction at the Cochin Shipyard, by 2015.

Following the roll-out, the Naval LCA, with state-of-the-art technologies and punch, will be ready for the phase of systems integration tests leading to ground runs, taxi trials and flight trial
Once the ground based tests are completed, the 'NP1' is expected to fly by the end of this year and the NP2 is likely to fly by the end of 2011.

The government had sanctioned the LCA (Navy) programme in 2003 and the first stage of development included design and fabrication of a trainer and a fighter, NP1 and NP2 respectively, along with a Shore Based Test Facility (SBTF) at Goa naval air base, which has already come up.

The SBTF is being used to simulate carrier take off and arrested landing and as a training facility for future pilots of the naval LCA. It is also being used for training on the newly acquired MiG-29K fighter jets, bought from Russia to be operated on the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier, which is under a repair and refit programme in a Russian shipyard.

The LCA (Navy) NP1 would be flying with the GE-F-404-IN20 engine and is designed for Ski-jump Take Off But Arrested Recovery (STOBAR) operations.

The only carrier-borne aircraft in the light category in the world, Naval LCA will be operating with a wide variety of operational weapons and equipment like the Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missile, anti-ship missiles, conventional bombs, air defence guns, counter-counter measures and drop tanks.

The ADA is responsible for design, development, ground test and flight test of both the Naval and Air Force versions of the LCA. HAL is the principal partner of ADA in this task.

The Indian Navy, the Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification (CEMILAC) and Directorate General of Aeronautical Quality Assurance (DGAQA), all have played an important supporting role in the development of the Naval LCA right from its inception, officials said. (With PTI inputs)


Read more at: http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/i...aval-light-combat-aircraft-rolls-out-35874?cp

 

[Rahul Singh]

Hip Hip Hooray..............Hip Hip Hooray.......................Hip Hip Hooray........................
Hip Hip Hooray.......................Hip Hip Hooray.......................Hip Hip Hooray...............
Hip Hip Hooray.............................Hip Hip Hooray.........................Hip Hip Hooray...................
----------------------

Main landing gear looks bulky!

 

[Rahul Singh]

 

[plugwater]

Congratulations Its time for PARTAAAAAAY!!!

 

[SHASH2K2]

:emot112: Ya babbbbbbbbbbbyyyyyyyyy. Its part time . :happy_7: