ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
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Kunal Biswas

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IAF Chief Arup Raha Praises Indigenous Fighter Jet LCA Tejas After First Ever Sortie By An Air Chief


The series production of the Tejas aircraft has already commenced at HAL Bangalore and the IAF intends to form the first squadron of the LCA on 01 July 2016 The IAF has also decided to place an order for an additional 80 Tejas in the advanced LCA MK1A configuration. The LCA MK1A will have at least 45 improvements than in the aircraft what Air Chief had flown.
 

sasum

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@Rahul Singh @akk . The best way to discuss Tejas's availability is to do it in absolute numbers rather than be mired in military jargon as sqdrn.
Production and delivery over next 2-3 years is dependent on availability of engines and other imported components. Now find out how many engines will be available by 2018-19 to know how many aircrafts will be with IAF to juggle with sqdrn formation.
 

tejas warrior

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Sir that's merely your assumption. There is no such rule or please quote a reliable source that that's the norm.
as I mentioned earlier, there is no order for additional engines so there is no possibility of more than 20 aircraft in the next 3-4 years (minimum). So if parriker is to be believed about 4 squadrons in 3 years, it is only possible by forming squadrons with 4-6 aircraft or so.
Friend, HAL must have agreement with GE on order and lead time for delivery of Engines.

Also, as of now there is no contact on paper for additional 100 mk1A Tejas by IAF to HAL. Once this contract is signed and HAL gets money, then only they can order more Engines.
 

pmaitra

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All the post related to Rafale or other fighter have their own threads where it can be debated, Keep this thread only related to Tejas ..
Thanks Kunal. I have deleted the off topic post. We don't want this thread to become an LCA vs Rafale thread.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Elta Systems will supply the radar for all future versions of India's Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA), after the Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) subsidiary was selected by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL).

The company's ELM-2032 fire-control radar is installed on prototypes of the Indian-developed fighter, and deliveries will continue as series production starts. According to Elta, it also has been chosen as sole supplier for additional future versions of the Tejas; Israeli sources suggest this could involve using its active electronically scanned array ELM-2052 sensor. They suggest that strong ties between HAL and IAI could see additional Israeli equipment installed on the fighter.


India's air force has announced plans to order 80 more LCA in an improved Mk1A configuration, following an earlier order for 40 Tejas jets.
Source : https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/elta-cements-radar-status-on-tejas-fighter-425540/

===================================



Meanwhile LRDE's Uttam specs displayed at Defexpo were 150km (up from the original 100km).
 
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Kunal Biswas

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"The sanctioned strength of fighter squadrons is 42, but 100 percent is never reached. We have 34 squadrons at present. In next three to four years, four to five squadrons of Tejas will be added; a few more squadrons of Sukhoi will also come. By then two squadrons of Rafale jets will also come," Parrikar said
Source : http://www.business-standard.com/ar...ly-before-diwali-parrikar-116052000390_1.html

===========================

26 Feb, 2016

NEW DELHI: Indian Air Force will induct three to four indigenously developed Light Combat Aircraft 'Tejas' this year and a total of eight squadrons in eight years, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said today.

He told the Lok Sabha that a Letter of Intent for procuring 120 Tejas was issued and the first aircraft was inducted by the IAF in 2015 and three to four would be inducted this year
Read more at: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

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Eight Years, Eight squadrons is not new ..
 

tejas warrior

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Source : http://www.business-standard.com/ar...ly-before-diwali-parrikar-116052000390_1.html

===========================

26 Feb, 2016



Read more at: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

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Eight Years, Eight squadrons is not new ..
yes. It's only possible if they increase production rate of 16/yr.

Also, HAL has mentioned with increased outsourcing(upto 80%) they can make more.. upto 25/yr which will be great..
 

Kunal Biswas

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It is going to be 25 per year or more, This is due to the pressure they are facing from present government, Also its worth while to mention Goverment will get Private co, Into the picture ..

Mean while, This is a nice article to read upon >>



TATA in a way saved Tejas, If a second assembly line should open it should go for TATA, if only they want it ..

Anyone remember the name 'Suresh Kalmadi', This chap threaten our scientist for misappropriation of funds..

Also, HAL has mentioned with increased outsourcing(upto 80%) they can make more.. upto 25/yr which will be great..
 
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sasum

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It is going to be 25 per year or more, This is due to the pressure they are facing from present government, Also its worth while to mention Goverment will get Private co, Into the picture ..

Mean while, This is a nice article to read upon >>



TATA in a way saved Tejas, And rough up history of Tejas ..
This indeed is a nice article and authenticates ACM's piloting the plane himself, with a degree of detail. We miss such reportage in National news papers which often give vague & sketchy accounts.
 

AbRaj

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That, sir, is a delusion.

Even in case of Tejas, lots of components are foreign (including the most important & costly stuff like engine & radar) and even here a lot of $ goes out of the country. But you have to learn to live with this reality because India does not have an industry that's capable of producing everything we want right here - even China does not!

Only the US & Russia (the Cold War rivals) are capable of producing almost everything in-house...and even they prefer to outsource a lot of stuff now (especially US).

The IAF, however, needs to look at the bigger picture. Even if case of Western sanctions (which have happened multiple times before and may happen again under some circumstances);

  • Su-30MKI, FGFA, MiGs will remain unaffected and continue to operate & serve

  • Rafale, Mirage may or may not be affected (depends on France's individual decision)

  • But Tejas will be affected for SURE. The engine is American and without the engine & the supply of spares and support for the engine, we cannot keep the plane operational for long.

In short, the most "domestic" aircraft on the block is actually the one that's most likely to be grounded as a result of foreign sanctions. So you should re-check that whole "inidgenous" and "our own" argument, because that is frankly delusional and only serves to cloud us to the facts and dangers involved.

Atleast the licensed-production of BARS radar and AL-31FP engine takes place inside India. But for Tejas (ELM-2032, F404 etc.) we directly import everything from abroad.
There is something called "reserve"
 

AbRaj

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Anyone remember the name 'Suresh Kalmadi', This chap threaten our scientist for misappropriation of funds..
Yup kongressi bootlicker, corrupt to the sole, thug, 1st looted & ruined Indian Hockey Federation then Delhi Olympics
Supposedly "lost memory" of financial transactions.
Someone put a bullet in his head
 

PaliwalWarrior

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Never said Tejas development did not help Indian industry - it sure did in a big way. The point I make was that we cannot stay in the delusion that Tejas is 100% Indian, or that all the money that goes into making it stays within India, or that foreign countries cannot control what happens with it to any extent.

This is obviously wrong because at the moment (and for the forseeable future) the LCA's heart remains American and it will stop beating when the POTUS so desires.

In the case of US sanctions, how long can we keep the F404 or F414 running without US support?

Overlooking this critical aspect and hoping for some magic to happen in the future is another delusion.



End of the day, the fact remains that F404 is the only engine currently certified for LCA.



But ofcourse, such conversion cannot happen overnight.

What did we do when US sanctions after '98 tests? We should have planned for other engine options then & there. So if and when sanctions happen again, we would have a 2nd engine option that's already tested & certified on LCA, so that we can quickly make the switch.

Getting down to validate a 2nd engine AFTER sanctions have taken place is not a very viable approach. You don't start growing corn after you feel hungry - it could take years to get it ready with another engine.

While I don't doubt you when you say you interacted with them (I know to trust you as a good source of info), it's not the first time we're seeing the officials from the state-run agencies blatantly say everything is possible and give unrealistic expectations & deadlines...only to find out later that it's not so easy and the actual work would take much longer and cost a lot more than expected.

Infact, that IS the routine.



Frankly, I think even talking of Mk-3 when even the Mk-2 is still on paper in itself is fanboyish. Ofcourse the agencies may have some vivid future plans that they laid out on a drawing board on a lazy afternoon...it doesn't mean they can get it all done, or that IAF has actually wanted any of it. When they actually file an ASQR or something for Mk-3, I'll be ready to talk about it.

Lca mk1a was proposed by HAL not by iaf asqrs or by ada
 

HariPrasad-1

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Yes, agree to Biswa sir.

Moreover, IAF always wanted more Mirage 2000. (anyone disagree ?)

It has been proven already, Tejas MK1 is at least as good as Mirage 2000.
So, Mk1A will beat Mirage hands down with ASEA (any doubt ?)

I will not talk about LCA MK2 for now.

Cost effectiveness: LCA winner by a big margin. Also what ever money being spent is mostly lives in India only.

Jobs: More jobs will be produced with LCA.

Rafael is a very good twin engine plane.. but very expensive. We wanted single engine fighter which is now LCA.

Time has changed since early 2000.. and now we have a option : TEJAS.
Tejas will beat any plane in punch delivered per rupee.
 

pmaitra

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It is going to be 25 per year or more, This is due to the pressure they are facing from present government, Also its worth while to mention Goverment will get Private co, Into the picture ..

Mean while, This is a nice article to read upon >>



TATA in a way saved Tejas, If a second assembly line should open it should go for TATA, if only they want it ..

Anyone remember the name 'Suresh Kalmadi', This chap threaten our scientist for misappropriation of funds..
Nice article. Thanks for sharing. For a person who is a former MiG-21 and MiG-29 pilot, the LCA was in good hands.

On a related note, Suresh Kalmadi is a former Indian Air Force pilot.
 

tejas warrior

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PAF F-16 pilots are advised to stay away from the LCA in the horizontal plane at high Mach numbers

By: ADARSH - Defence News

The relative performance characteristics of the LCA versus the Lockheed-Martin F-16A/B aircraft operated as the premier frontline fighter by the Pakistani Air Force.

This analysis is based on computationally evaluated performance characteristics models developed by the author of the blog. The aerodynamics and flight data for the two aircraft are obtained from the published sources listed in the references of this article. The LCA aerodynamics data is obtained from the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) publications and the F-16A/B data is extrapolated from public-domain NASA publications on the aerodynamics of the YF-16 prototype.

Assumptions that went into the analysis include the empty weight of the LCA as being 6,500 Kg and that of the F-16A/B as ~8,500 kg. The LCA engine used was General Electric F404-GE-IN20 with a rated output of 54 kN and a rated TSFC of 0.77 lbm/lbf-Hr. Similarly, the engine assumed for the F-16A/B is the F110-GE-100 with a rated output 76 kN and TSFC of 0.763 lbm/lbf-hr. The internal fuel capacity of the LCA is assumed to be 3,034 Liters and the aircraft is assumed to be capable of carrying a centerline external drop tank of 725 Liters as well as one 1,200 Liter drop tanks on pylon stations 1 and 2, respectively. The cruise speed of both aircraft are evaluated for maximum range for each condition.

Whilst the LCA is now available in the air-force single-seat fighter (LCA), two-seat trainer (LCA-T) and navy (LCA-N) versions, the following analysis restricts itself to the single-seat air-force version only citing the lack of available information on the other two variants. However, performance for the other variants can be extrapolated from the single-seat air-force version, on which they are all based.


Aerodynamic comparisons and validations ::

The aerodynamic force coefficient comparison can be summarized in the form of lift-over-drag ratio (L/D) plotted versus lift coefficients (CL) for both the aircraft. The F-16A/B is generally seen to have a slightly higher peak L/D ratio (~11.0) compared with that of the LCA (~9.0) and the peak is attained at a slightly higher CL value of 0.40. The LCA attains this peak at a lower CL value of 0.20. The F-16A/B is generally a heavier aircraft than the LCA and larger in size, which explains why its design is tuned to attain the highest L/D ratio for a higher CL value compared to the much lighter and nimble LCA. The F-16A/B sustained-turn-rate (STR) data is corroborated with the NASA YF-16 flight test data as well. The author generated a series of maximum STR rates for the extrapolated NASA aerodynamic data and has plotted it against the available F-16A/B data for the same Mach number ranges. The comparison is significantly in line with each other, suggesting that the extrapolation models for the YF-16 data to that of the F-16A/B is acceptable for this analysis.


Performance Comparisons ::

The performance of the LCA at 20,000 ft altitude is extracted from the earlier article on its performance. The plot is modified, however, to show the F-16A/B data. The latter aircraft is evaluated for the same equivalent fuel mass as that carried by the LCA when it is armed with a centerline drop-tank and two large pylon drop tanks for a maximum of 6,159 L of fuel. The range attained by the two aircraft are summarized in the form of payload and range plots. The payload is evaluated from 0 to 10,000 kg and is assumed to include the pilot weight and all auxiliary equipment excluding fuel. The vertical axis of the plots is range, measured in kilometers. The combat-radius of the aircraft is considered to be ~40% of the range. For example, a range of 1,000 km corresponds to a combat radius of ~400 km. Plots are provided for the LCA in three conditions: clean (internal fuel only), combat (internal + centerline drop tank) and ferry (internal + centerline drop tank + 2 x wing drop tanks).


The F-16A/B has a generally higher performance engine than that used in the LCA with regard to fuel efficiency. As a result, it attains a higher range (1,930 km at 0 kg payload) versus the LCA (1,553 km at 0 kg payload) under similar conditions. As payload increases the LCA and the F-16A/B maintain this slight difference in range performance at high altitude.

In the horizontal plane STR, the LCA outperforms the F-16A/B at high Mach numbers and the F-16C/D under all Mach number regimes. The nimble LCA can out-turn an F-16A/B at higher Mach numbers and an F-16C/D by a significant margin at lower Mach numbers, which are encountered in a turning fight within visual range. As Mach number increases, the turn rates lower for the F-16 models at a faster rate than that for the LCA with a crossover point at Mach 0.65. At all higher Mach numbers, the difference in turn rates increases substantially once more. The LCA can also pull higher “gee” forces at high Mach numbers than the F-16A/B in the horizontal plane. At high Mach numbers, the F-16 pilot remains at a significant disadvantage in the horizontal plane. Newer “Block” F-16 models only worsen this gap in performance between themselves and the LCA. They are heavier and even less nimble than the early “block” models currently operated by the Pakistani Air Force.


Conclusions ::

The F-16 pilots are advised to stay away from the LCA in the horizontal plane at high Mach numbers. At lower Mach numbers, they can fight the LCA on an equal footing. If they get into a turning fight with an LCA at high Mach numbers, the LCA will win.


Source : http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=5350
 
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