ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[sasum]

Ok. But we abuse Anthony so much just because he was quiet. We speak highly of parriker just because he speaks. Where is the difference in their action. I still cannot digest....4 aircrafts in a squadron.....and he is promising lca squadrons....on that basis. Where are we heading to? Almost seems they want aircraft only for Republic day parades!

Parrikar is just passing time. I tell you...he will go back to Goa politics by year-end. The seat of DM is too hot for his delicate rump.

 

[Gessler]

http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/05/india-to-select-fighter-jet-under-make.html

India To Select Fighter Jet Under 'Make in India' By March
Saturday, May 21, 2016 by Indiandefense News

.............................................. Strongly backing the quality of Tejas, Parrikar said it has the same qualities as Rafale.

Tejas is in light weight category and its range is also half compared to Rafale, but in terms of avionics, electronics and fire power it is no less to Rafale, he said.

The minister said India will select a good fighter by the end of this financial year to be made domestically

"It is not yet decided which aircraft it would be. It may be F-18, Rafale, Eurofighter or Grippen. The decision in this regard will be taken in this financial year," he said.

...but ofcourse, it's not a technical assessment. Rather, lip-service for the state-run companies that are under MoD.

I would like to reiterate for members here that the Tejas has it's own role to fulfill (replace MiG-21s and add numbers) which it is still unable to do and won't be able to do so in the foreseeable future, either (atleast not before 2020-2025).

I frankly have no idea under which context did Parrikar try to compare the two planes, which are in entirely different categories and have different roles to fulfill. Oh, and by the way Rafale is way ahead of Tejas in all the departments he mentioned.

Speaking of avionics (Aviation Electronics)...the slotted-array 2032 is literally no match for the AESA. There is no IRST, no TV and Tejas does not even have a simple MAWS, let alone more advanced features like all-round situational awareness, use of GaN, QWIP etc.

It's Active sensors are mediocre in comparison to present-version Rafale, while Passive awareness is a dud (non-existent).

Firepower? Well, Tejas can carry about 1/3rd the payload of Rafale. There is still no provision for multi-rack ejectors atleast for A2G munitions. It can't supercruise either.

As I said, at the end of the day Parrikar is a politician and not an aviation expert/analyst. So yeah, a precise technical assessment of the aircraft is not something expected of him. So I'd suggest to members here to take the large, bold letters in the post I'm quoting with....disregard.

Parrikar is simply trying to save the asses of the incompetent fools running the government companies. As I said....LIP-SERVICE.

 

[pmaitra]

There are 16-18 planes in one squadron.

Source: http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/indian-air-force-has-only-32-squadrons-lowest-in-a-decade-1281558

So, whenever someone mentions x squadrons, assume x times 18 or x times 16 airplanes.

 

[sasum]

Source: http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/indian-air-force-has-only-32-squadrons-lowest-in-a-decade-1281558

So, whenever someone mentions x squadrons, assume x times 18 or x times 16 airplanes.

The 1st Tejas Squadron comprising 2 planes will be raised on 1st July' 16.
http://googleweblight.com/?lite_url...800394&sig=APY536xX79CXzl1AdQr1kfTM9_-wGGTvvg
A squadron of aircrafts can comprise a maximum of 24 aircrafts, but seems there is no minimum number :biggrin2:

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

R&D programme should go on simultaneously with the production. Just like a small number of Su-30MKI is being upgraded for carrying Brahmos, some Tejas aircrafts (may be 40 or so) can be upgraded with CFTs for deep strike purposes just like Mirage-2000H.

Aey bhai Jo hai usko to induct hone de

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Which is why I told CFTs can be used in deep strike mode and not for air superiority mode. There is lot of comparisons between drop tanks and CFTs. I recommend to please go through that. Also, CFTs doesnot take any hard points but adds to number of hard points.

Tejas can't be used on deep strike roles

Not that bad t don't have strike capability but simply because it can't go deep

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

And why lying about lca numbers. They are talking squadron numbers, knowing well that they can manipulate number of aircraft in a squadron. If he is misleading, how do I give him benefit of doubt?

Lca sqdn formation nos are iaf requirements

These are historical nos has happened in the past not something he invented

Iaf forms a sqdns with not less than or minimum 4 aircrafts

So with induction of 4/ tejas the 1st tejas sqdn will be formed it will not be complete or full sqdn

 

[pmaitra]

My understanding is based on the MiG-21.

The MiG-21 is a single engine high altitude interceptor and the LCA is supposed to fill that role. I would expect each LCA squadron to have the same size as each MiG-21 squadron.

Dropping from 16 or 18 planes to 4 planes per squadron is a massive drop. Or is the first squadron a training squadron?

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

My understanding is based on the MiG-21.

The MiG-21 is a single engine high altitude interceptor and the LCA is supposed to fill that role. I would expect each LCA squadron to have the same size as each MiG-21 squadron.

Dropping from 16 or 18 planes to 4 planes per squadron is a massive drop. Or is the first squadron a training squadron?

It has already been explained by iaf

That as per iaf rules they can form a sqdn with minimum 4 aircrafts

So with 4 tejas the iaf will FORM the sqdn

No where anyone has mentioned that tejas sdqbs will be of 4 tejas only

 

[pmaitra]

It has already been explained by iaf

That as per iaf rules they can form a sqdn with minimum 4 aircrafts

So with 4 tejas the iaf will FORM the sqdn

No where anyone has mentioned that tejas sdqbs will be of 4 tejas only

It is confusing.

India will get its Tejas fighter squadron -- indigenously built Combat Aircraft -- on July 1, with two planes. The squadron will be based in in Tamil Nadu's Sulur.

Another two fighters are expected in the next financial year, 2016-17, a senior Air Force commander told NDTV. The total strength of the squadron - normally they have 14 to 16 aircraft -- and its name will be decided later.

So, 2 + 2 = 4. They also state normally, one squadron has 14 to 16. It is unclear whether they will add more to the 4 to make it up to 16.

Basically, the strength of the squadron and the name of the squadron will be decided later.

For now, the Air Force will start the training and induction of pilots. Also, test pilots manning the squadron will work closely with HAL to "deal with the niggling issues," he added.

This is what made me speculate that this might be for training.

Link: http://googleweblight.com/?lite_url...800394&sig=APY536xX79CXzl1AdQr1kfTM9_-wGGTvvg

 

[SilverSabre]

It is confusing.


So, 2 + 2 = 4. They also state normally, one squadron has 14 to 16. It is unclear whether they will add more to the 4 to make it up to 16.

Basically, the strength of the squadron and the name of the squadron will be decided later.


This is what made me speculate that this might be for training.

Link: http://googleweblight.com/?lite_url...800394&sig=APY536xX79CXzl1AdQr1kfTM9_-wGGTvvg

A sqdn can be from 4-16 so legally calling a pack of 4 as a sqdn is not wrong

 

[pmaitra]

A sqdn can be from 4-16 so legally calling a pack of 4 as a sqdn is not wrong

It's not about wrong or right. It is about making sense out of it all.

This is what makes the most sense to me:

1. First batch of LCA will be 20 planes.
2. 4 planes will be used for a tiny training squadron.
3. The remaining 16 will be used for a fighter squadron, the normal size.

 

[SilverSabre]

A sqdn can be from 4-16 so legally calling a pack of 4 as a sqdn is not wrong

Practically this news is no news. HAL till now has made only 3 production planes. 4th plane's delivery was scheduled for June-16. Which is getting a bit delayed by a month or so.

Also the dedicated hanger to keep these planes is due to be completed by October. So 3 planes currently are parked in other IAF hangers.

This formal sqdn formation will happen with the hanger's ribbon cutting ceremony. So that's the all hoopla created in media.

 

[SilverSabre]

It's not about wrong or right. It is about making sense out of it all.

This is what makes the most sense to me:

1. First batch of LCA will be 20 planes.
2. 4 planes will be used for a tiny training squadron.
3. The remaining 16 will be used for a fighter squadron, the normal size.

You're right in first 20 count. But please understand HAL has a current capacity for producing only 4 LCAs in one year,which they will upgrade to 8 per year by April-2017.

So if you want to wait for a full capacity 16 sqdn to be inducted then wait for 2 more years.

Also the production of training plane happens in parallel. So practically for each pack of 4 planes there will 1 trainer.

HAL won't first deliver trainer then actual.

 

[pmaitra]

You're right in first 20 count. But please understand HAL has a current capacity for producing only 4 LCAs in one year,which they will upgrade to 8 per year by April-2017.

So if you want to wait for a full capacity 16 sqdn to be inducted then wait for 2 more years.

Also the production of training plane happens in parallel. So practically for each pack of 4 planes there will 1 trainer.

HAL won't first deliver trainer then actual.

Yeah, I am aware of that. I did not specify any time frame. It will take quite a few years at the current rate, and maybe quicker, if additional production lines are opened, or a parallel private vendor is roped in.

We shall see in due course of time.

 

[AnantS]

The 1st Tejas Squadron comprising 2 planes will be raised on 1st July' 16.
http://googleweblight.com/?lite_url...800394&sig=APY536xX79CXzl1AdQr1kfTM9_-wGGTvvg
A squadron of aircrafts can comprise a maximum of 24 aircrafts, but seems there is no minimum number :biggrin2:

Why the noise of scandal, when there is none? Last year it was Air Chief who said he needed minimum of 2 planes to form a squadron and then will induct into Air force. Parrikar, forced dithering IAF to accept LSP 1 as is. The main point is IAF has been forced to come on board, and its silly excuses to import light fighter.

 

[tejas warrior]

Guys, LCA Tejas is a new fighter coming in IAF inventory and is only Indigenous product. (IAF must support it as it's own baby)

There is no point in making & keeping planes with HAL..they should be surely transferred to IAF.. gradually number will increase. SP1 & SP2 is ready, SP3 & SP4 will be ready soon.. in next 6 month sure.

While numbers reach to 18 by 2018, IAF & HAL will learn something out of it.. No ?

 

[su35]

Sir, why can't they prefer RBS-15....!

It is bit heavy, yes, but it has 250+ range too.

We already have AGM 84, Kh 35, Sea Exocet, Kh 31 and Sea Eagle, we did not want Anymore.

 

[abingdonboy]

...but ofcourse, it's not a technical assessment. Rather, lip-service for the state-run companies that are under MoD.

I would like to reiterate for members here that the Tejas has it's own role to fulfill (replace MiG-21s and add numbers) which it is still unable to do and won't be able to do so in the foreseeable future, either (atleast not before 2020-2025).

I frankly have no idea under which context did Parrikar try to compare the two planes, which are in entirely different categories and have different roles to fulfill. Oh, and by the way Rafale is way ahead of Tejas in all the departments he mentioned.

Speaking of avionics (Aviation Electronics)...the slotted-array 2032 is literally no match for the AESA. There is no IRST, no TV and Tejas does not even have a simple MAWS, let alone more advanced features like all-round situational awareness, use of GaN, QWIP etc.

It's Active sensors are mediocre in comparison to present-version Rafale, while Passive awareness is a dud (non-existent).

Firepower? Well, Tejas can carry about 1/3rd the payload of Rafale. There is still no provision for multi-rack ejectors atleast for A2G munitions. It can't supercruise either.

As I said, at the end of the day Parrikar is a politician and not an aviation expert/analyst. So yeah, a precise technical assessment of the aircraft is not something expected of him. So I'd suggest to members here to take the large, bold letters in the post I'm quoting with....disregard.

Parrikar is simply trying to save the asses of the incompetent fools running the government companies. As I said....LIP-SERVICE.

The only real comparison between the LCA and Rafale is that both fly. Why the DM felt the need to reference the LCA and Rafale in the same breath is beyond me- he is just setting himself and the nation up to be humiliated. Has he realy learnt nothing about how the media works by now? All those headlines that will be spun as a result "LCA as good as Rafale" will be mocked by the rest of the world and add a further degree of stupidity to the project that is just doesn't deserve.

The LCA was NEVER meant to be a rival to the Rafale and clearly is NOT so why compare them? They both serve very different roles within the IAF.

 

[abingdonboy]

My understanding is based on the MiG-21.

The MiG-21 is a single engine high altitude interceptor and the LCA is supposed to fill that role. I would expect each LCA squadron to have the same size as each MiG-21 squadron.

Dropping from 16 or 18 planes to 4 planes per squadron is a massive drop. Or is the first squadron a training squadron?

No one is saying the SQN's entire strength will be 4 ac, this is clearly nonsense. The SQN will be offically "stood up" with just 4 ac and as more LCA are churned out they will join them. Nothing has changed so far as how the IAF raises SQNs and the numbers contained within, why are we loosing our common sense on this matter?