ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[sasum]

Hi Sir,
Out of the context, I have one doubt which was though raised by other members was left unanswered in this thread. Why is ADA not testing Tejas with conformal tanks. It would increase its combat radius by 40%-50% right? I do agree that drag tests have to be repeated, but it was proved multiple times, CFTs donot increase any drag (ex: Israeli version of F-16, F-22, Rafale etc) unlike drop tanks which increases air drag like anything.

Advantage of "drop tank" is obvious in its name itself. In many situations, the load of extra fuel becomes liability, e.g,..fierce dogfight. In those situations pilots jettison the fuel tank. Besides, most of the aircrafts are designed in a way, that an extra weapon can be mounted in place of a drop tank, depending upon the mission requirement. Btw, drop tanks don't increase drag significantly. They are barrel-shaped like missiles and mounted under the belly or wings just like other armoury.

 

[Saichand K]

Advantage of "drop tank" is obvious in its name itself. In many situations, the load of extra fuel becomes liability, e.g,..fierce dogfight. In those situations pilots jettison the fuel tank. Besides, most of the aircrafts are designed in a way, that an extra weapon can be mounted in place of a drop tank, depending upon the mission requirement. Btw, drop tanks don't increase drag significantly. They are barrel-shaped like missiles and mounted under the belly or wings just like other armoury.

Which is why I told CFTs can be used in deep strike mode and not for air superiority mode. There is lot of comparisons between drop tanks and CFTs. I recommend to please go through that. Also, CFTs doesnot take any hard points but adds to number of hard points.

 

[sasum]

Also, CFTs doesnot take any hard points but adds to number of hard points.

But CFTs can not be jettisoned when load comes in the way of maneuverability. Also drop tanks enable flexibility of operations, that CFTs can not. Same aircraft can play both roles — long range A to G attack (with extra fuel) as well as interception (lean mode).
Typically naval versions need extra fuel as they are stationed in carriers far from shores.

 

[Narasimh]

First Tejas squadron to fly before Diwali: Manohar Parrikar


In the next three to four years, four to five squadrons of Tejas will be added " Parrikar said.

Source: ET

first 20 aircraft are IOC config mark 1 Tejas = 1 squadron (will take till 2018 to complete)
As per RM, he expects next 3 squadrons(about 60 fighters) can be produced in the next 2 years??!!

Unless there is 2nd assembly line it looks highly unlikely.
And not sure what config will the fighters be after first 20. Will it be FOC standard Mk1 or Mk1-A?

 

[akk]

I have stopped believing him. All talk and talk only. What action has been taken till now. Only old programs comin to fruit. No new contract has been signed till now. All deadlines btoken. No new missile or aircraft deal in 2 years. Very disappointing

 

[akk]

And don't worry about squadrons. These people are experts in making fools. He is calling 4 aircrafts forming a squadron. By that definition, 1st 20 aircraft will form 5 squadrons. I repeat, this govt is only making fool. Nothing substantive

 

[Zebra]

I have stopped believing him. All talk and talk only. What action has been taken till now. Only old programs comin to fruit. No new contract has been signed till now. All deadlines btoken. No new missile or aircraft deal in 2 years. Very disappointing

Ha..ha

Sir, they are busy in making 200 Navy ships.

One more thing, when they wants to prove that they has actually signed few contracts at that time they will talk in terms of Indian Rupees amount.

But when they talk about weapons selling targets, they talk in US $ amount.

Very shifty and very fishy.

 

[akk]

They only ever ordered 40 ge404 engines. 20 already used. Maximum aircraft they can make is 20. So completing order oc 20 mk1 and 2-3 left for trial of mk1a. Even if they make new orders now, if will be years before they are delivered. They are INDIA specific....not lying in their cupboards

 

[SilverSabre]

I have stopped believing him. All talk and talk only. What action has been taken till now. Only old programs comin to fruit. No new contract has been signed till now. All deadlines btoken. No new missile or aircraft deal in 2 years. Very disappointing

Ok before I reply this let me be clear I am not a Modi bhakt. Now if you track any defence upgrades in India in past 5 decades since 1962 war when Nehru's panchsheel debacle with China.. Every defence project gets approved by one defence minister and gets delivered during next tenure.

Indian defense establishments are so massive that any change usually takes a longer period to come to effect, and any equipment induction takes a decade as everything undergoes extensive testing, thats why they have a category called military grade equipments.

Government's role with defence is mainly to facilitate the approval processes. This role was done well in UPA I but UPA II due to scams and scandals was afraid to give new proposals approvals and created a policy log jam. That log jam is eased with Parikkar taking helm.

If Modi gets a second term then you may see the benefits of current approvals under his tenure.. Else next defence minister or prime minister will take the credit.

We credit Vajpayee and George Fernandez with nuclear test and we admire him for his guts. No other PM than Indira Gandhi had such guts to approve such an act as every govt has to keep international community with them to have the aids and grants coming in and maintaining the healthy trade to keep economy wheels moving. Such decisions put an enormous stress on internal produce and self reliance as embargoes forced by wealthy nations will be stifling for the country.

Yes Modi hasn't done anything like that, instead he reversed that scare tactic by constantly highlighting the importance of India in the world of dominant China and India's market and youth potential.

Yes he speaks too much, sometimes unnecessarily, but he's much better than Manmohan singh who was very silent. He is creating a Halo around India which no past prime minister apart from Indira Gandhi did. Why I am crediting her is because she was instrumental in making sure 1971 war's repercussions shouldn't harm India as it did in 1962 & 1965.

So my dear @akk, don't get disheartened and all gloomy about the new government. Give them some time. We Indians have grown too impatient to wait and see the fruits coming from Indian policy's policy making.

Apologies admin for writing this in may be an unrelated thread.

 

[akk]

I appreciate what you say. However this man parriker speaks too much. He should not announce deadlines if he cannot fulfill.
Lca foc-didn't happen. Amca funding-not released. Fgfa-no progress on ground. Rafale-pm announces but that's it-why make announcement if you can't fulfill. S400-cleated but no contract. Helicopter??? Aircraft engine- no progress. In fact no progress anywhere. Yet they claim a lot....that's what I don't like. Should stay quiet and speak when something substantive happens.

 

[SilverSabre]

Ha..ha

Sir, they are busy in making 200 Navy ships.

One more thing, when they wants to prove that they has actually signed few contracts at that time they will talk in terms of Indian Rupees amount.

But when they talk about weapons selling targets, they talk in US $ amount.

Very shifty and very fishy.

US$ is used by Indian media, all government briefs carry both Indian rupee and equivalent currency denomination if a foreign party involved. Please put this on indian media houses who are more of the guilty party to create this sensationalism.

If you're referring to Parrikar's 2 Bn export statement, I believe it's more to highlight an easily relatable milestone from 0.7 Bn to 2.0 Bn. Else saying akkad bakkad Crores to double akkad bakkad Crores

 

[akk]

And why lying about lca numbers. They are talking squadron numbers, knowing well that they can manipulate number of aircraft in a squadron. If he is misleading, how do I give him benefit of doubt?

 

[SilverSabre]

I appreciate what you say. However this man parriker speaks too much. He should not announce deadlines if he cannot fulfill.
Lca foc-didn't happen. Amca funding-not released. Fgfa-no progress on ground. Rafale-pm announces but that's it-why make announcement if you can't fulfill. S400-cleated but no contract. Helicopter??? Aircraft engine- no progress. In fact no progress anywhere. Yet they claim a lot....that's what I don't like. Should stay quiet and speak when something substantive happens.

Yes I agree, but I think they are just being too cautious to keep news narrative going. This is just a ploy to keep the news cycle warm for their actual election centric policy plans which all governments start from their third year budget..

First half of work / promises and second half of patting their own backs for first half and asking for votes.

 

[akk]

Ok. But we abuse Anthony so much just because he was quiet. We speak highly of parriker just because he speaks. Where is the difference in their action. I still cannot digest....4 aircrafts in a squadron.....and he is promising lca squadrons....on that basis. Where are we heading to? Almost seems they want aircraft only for Republic day parades!

 

[akk]

Atleast a new order for 404 engines would have shown their firm intent. Without more engines, we cannot have more than 20 new aircrafts

 

[SilverSabre]

And why lying about lca numbers. They are talking squadron numbers, knowing well that they can manipulate number of aircraft in a squadron. If he is misleading, how do I give him benefit of doubt?

I agree it's newsmanship and data presentation. No doubt about it. But your earlier statement of stop believing in the system was a touch too strong for me.

I agree with you that this is a handle to control the news later in case of deadline slippages. But common man may not understand this.

We are members of defence forum for a reason. We are eager to know and we actually know or can deduct what's happening. So let us be that, the intellectual class and accept the sad realities too.

What I am happy about is that defence was never such extensively discussed in India. None of the news websites had defence as a dedicated section, where as cricket had.

Now news houses talk and question about defence. This is a good development. Hope this adds accountability to defence deliveries and more things happen in future.

 

[abingdonboy]

Seriously ? will they go for another MMRCA like program ?

How can we even consider other planes when simply Rafale won over them ?

Parrikar is trying to play games to project himself as a "tough guy". The reality is that the Rafale is coming in >100 units for the IAF and MP has pretty much confirmed that above.

 

[Zebra]

US$ is used by Indian media, all government briefs carry both Indian rupee and equivalent currency denomination if a foreign party involved. Please put this on indian media houses who are more of the guilty party to create this sensationalism.

If you're referring to Parrikar's 2 Bn export statement, I believe it's more to highlight an easily relatable milestone from 0.7 Bn to 2.0 Bn. Else saying akkad bakkad Crores to double akkad bakkad Crores

Sir, That is what I am saying, If Indian media use US$ amount then why can't we get the total amount of whatever contracts they signed in with an Indian company.....!

It will be very easy for us to compare / to judge.
How much they really spent.

 

[Zebra]

Parrikar is trying to play games to project himself as a "tough guy". The reality is that the Rafale is coming in >100 units for the IAF and MP has pretty much confirmed that above.

Seriously ? will they go for another MMRCA like program ?

How can we even consider other planes when simply Rafale won over them ?

This is LCA Tejas thread, btw.

And Rafale didn't won, GoI kept their eyes closed and favoured it. It was a political decision.

Rafale failed in Leh test.

 

[Zebra]

http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/05/india-to-select-fighter-jet-under-make.html

India To Select Fighter Jet Under 'Make in India' By March
Saturday, May 21, 2016 by Indiandefense News

.............................................. Strongly backing the quality of Tejas, Parrikar said it has the same qualities as Rafale.

Tejas is in light weight category and its range is also half compared to Rafale, but in terms of avionics, electronics and fire power it is no less to Rafale, he said.

The minister said India will select a good fighter by the end of this financial year to be made domestically

"It is not yet decided which aircraft it would be. It may be F-18, Rafale, Eurofighter or Grippen. The decision in this regard will be taken in this financial year," he said.