ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[garg_bharat]

@sasum, I have seen crores worth of computers and precision machines lying unused (or grossly under-used) for years in PSUs and then scrapped.

The waste and inefficiency in public sector is monumental.

To a degree defence is correct that government fails to provide them quality arms through local manufacture. However defence has been very resistant to develop sources in the private sector. This shows something amiss. Defence is very keen to import, even a pin (or a rifle).

 

[garg_bharat]

True it so for all bombs, tank shells and many other components in Indian Armed forces for that matter .. at least such a sanction will hasten the development of kaveri engine .. IGMDP succeeded against all odds cause we did not have to rely on outside help and we could not ask for forcing fully indigenous development ..

There are no shortcuts. One has to learn to walk before learning to run. The ecosystem needs to be created. The deficiencies in building engines (even tank engines), electronics etc. means India is truly afraid of sanctions. So no nuclear tests.

I think foreigners know our weakness very well. Pushing India on Rafale deal is a very clear example.

 

[Kharavela]

Integration of in-flight refueling equipments underway on LCA-Tejas
Sunday, March 13, 2016
By: Dr Anantha Krishnan M

Engineers and technicians at Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd’s (HAL) LCA-Tejas Division have begun the extremely complex integration of the aerial refueling probe on to the Tejas fighter.

During a visit to the HAL facilities, Mathrubhumi witnessed the fitment tests on the Limited Series Production-8 (LSP-8) variant of Tejas. The air-to-air probe, supplied by UK-based Cobham, is being fixed in front of the canopy and on the right side of the aircraft.

Similar to Mirage, Tejas too will have a fixed aerial refueling probe. “The modification of LSP-8 is under progress. The structural modification for the attachment and load is under way. We also have to undertake fuel system and software modifications,” says V Sridharan, General Manager, LCA.

The pressure refueling process on LSP-8 and SP-1 have already been demonstrated. Last year, the naval LCA (NP2) underwent ‘hot refueling’ at HAL facilities. Both were mandatory tests ahead of fixing the fuel probe.

“Once the probe is fixed and structural integration is done, then we will have the ground tests, which will be followed by flight trials. The efficiency of the Flight Control System will also be tested,” says Sridharan.

According to him, HAL has the expertise in fixing mid-air fuel probes on Jaguar trainers. The work share for this critical integration work is being split between Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), Aircraft Research and Design Centre (ARDC), Tata Advanced System Laboratories (TASL) and LCA Tejas Division.

“TASL is been entrusted with tool design and tooling supply, ADA is the programme agency responsible for production, structural design and software, ARDC has been entrusted with structures and systems, while we (LCA-Teas Division) are the final integration agency,” says Sridharan.

Flight trials to be completed next year ::

HAL hopes to complete the modifications on Tejas LSP-8 by May this year so that the flight trials could begin in June. As per the current schedule, by March 2017, HAL needs to complete the testing and flight trials ahead of certification.

HAL Chairman T Suvarna Raju, who is keeping a close watch on the production schedules, said that the complex integration work is nearing completion. “Once the integration work is done, we will have the engagement checks to ensure that the flow is right. This will be followed by dry and wet runs again to check the flow rate of fuel. Finally, we will take the fighter for the mid-air-refueling trials,” says Raju.

HAL officials say that the carriage trials in June will be immediately followed by dry contact tests. Once Tejas is fitted with the mid-air-refueling probe, it multiplies the aircraft range and radius of action.

Mid-air-refueling probe is one of the key parameters HAL-ADA combine need to fulfil, ahead of the Final Operational Clearance. HAL says from the first Tejas MKI-A aircraft onwards (21st fighter in the series production plans), all platforms will be fitted with the air-to-air refueling probe.

“However, if the IAF wishes, then it could enter into a separate contract with HAL, to retro-fit even the first 20 series production variants with these probes,” says an official.

In a related development, Tejas LSP3 and LSP7 have reached Jamnagar ahead of IAF’s Fire Power Demonstration — Iron Fist-2016.

http://www.defencenews.in/article/I...fueling-equipments-underway-on-LCA-Tejas-3478

 

[R.parida]

Integration of in-flight refueling equipments underway on LCA-Tejas
Sunday, March 13, 2016
By: Dr Anantha Krishnan M

Engineers and technicians at Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd’s (HAL) LCA-Tejas Division have begun the extremely complex integration of the aerial refueling probe on to the Tejas fighter.

During a visit to the HAL facilities, Mathrubhumi witnessed the fitment tests on the Limited Series Production-8 (LSP-8) variant of Tejas. The air-to-air probe, supplied by UK-based Cobham, is being fixed in front of the canopy and on the right side of the aircraft.

Similar to Mirage, Tejas too will have a fixed aerial refueling probe. “The modification of LSP-8 is under progress. The structural modification for the attachment and load is under way. We also have to undertake fuel system and software modifications,” says V Sridharan, General Manager, LCA.

The pressure refueling process on LSP-8 and SP-1 have already been demonstrated. Last year, the naval LCA (NP2) underwent ‘hot refueling’ at HAL facilities. Both were mandatory tests ahead of fixing the fuel probe.

“Once the probe is fixed and structural integration is done, then we will have the ground tests, which will be followed by flight trials. The efficiency of the Flight Control System will also be tested,” says Sridharan.

According to him, HAL has the expertise in fixing mid-air fuel probes on Jaguar trainers. The work share for this critical integration work is being split between Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), Aircraft Research and Design Centre (ARDC), Tata Advanced System Laboratories (TASL) and LCA Tejas Division.

“TASL is been entrusted with tool design and tooling supply, ADA is the programme agency responsible for production, structural design and software, ARDC has been entrusted with structures and systems, while we (LCA-Teas Division) are the final integration agency,” says Sridharan.

Flight trials to be completed next year ::

HAL hopes to complete the modifications on Tejas LSP-8 by May this year so that the flight trials could begin in June. As per the current schedule, by March 2017, HAL needs to complete the testing and flight trials ahead of certification.

HAL Chairman T Suvarna Raju, who is keeping a close watch on the production schedules, said that the complex integration work is nearing completion. “Once the integration work is done, we will have the engagement checks to ensure that the flow is right. This will be followed by dry and wet runs again to check the flow rate of fuel. Finally, we will take the fighter for the mid-air-refueling trials,” says Raju.

HAL officials say that the carriage trials in June will be immediately followed by dry contact tests. Once Tejas is fitted with the mid-air-refueling probe, it multiplies the aircraft range and radius of action.

Mid-air-refueling probe is one of the key parameters HAL-ADA combine need to fulfil, ahead of the Final Operational Clearance. HAL says from the first Tejas MKI-A aircraft onwards (21st fighter in the series production plans), all platforms will be fitted with the air-to-air refueling probe.

“However, if the IAF wishes, then it could enter into a separate contract with HAL, to retro-fit even the first 20 series production variants with these probes,” says an official.

In a related development, Tejas LSP3 and LSP7 have reached Jamnagar ahead of IAF’s Fire Power Demonstration — Iron Fist-2016.

http://www.defencenews.in/article/I...fueling-equipments-underway-on-LCA-Tejas-3478

Doesn't this article indicating FOC moved from March - 16 to 2017? HAL seems taking very conservative apporach to get the refuelling probe work .. one and half year to certify one of the thing looks very long to me ? Not sure how you guys are looking into this...

The FOC, which Parrikar had strictly told ADA/ HAL to finish by end of 2015, was first pushed to March 2016, and will now be pushed to next year.

 

[akk]

I asked similar question on the other thread.
my own guess......first 20 aircraft are in ioc-2 mode, don't need ifr. Rest are in lca1a mode. Does it make sense to give foc to lca 1? Clearly, lca 1 is never going to be produced in foc mode!! It's either ioc2 or mk1a, so maybe obtaining foc at this time is no longer important. Maybe get should focus on foc in mk1a configuration. Make sense?

 

[garg_bharat]

@akk, it makes sense to complete the FOC. Not sure if refueling probe will force a repeat of FOC.
A change of one component should only need limited tests.

 

[Pret]

Found it in a FB group ( as Astra is will be primary weapon of LCA and there is no dedicated Astra AAM thread i am pasting it here ) ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
WHY ASTRA'S RANGE CAN BE 110km
*********************************************************************************************> it is well known that range of AIM-120 C-5 against a non-maneuvering target is more then 105km ..i think most you will agree on it..and AMRAAM is mach 4 capable(4,900 km/h; 3,045 mph; 1.3612 km/s)...weight of AIM-120 C-5 is 155(+ or - 3) kg
> Astra..weight 154kg ..sleeker and shorter then AMRAAM
weight it nearly similar..astra is slightly heavier AMRAAM ( astra's warhead is lighter then AIM-120's..120 can be lighter because better murican electronics )
> specific impulse of fuel+engine and kinematic performance of missile are primary factors which affect range and speed ...here it is obvious that Astra is better in both criteria as it is faster implying more energetic fuel) ..both are capable of pulling ~40g
>wing area of Astra is more then AIM-120's ( as you know 120's wing were clipped ...in case of Astra despite of being redesigned wing are still larger which will be clipped in mark-2 variant )
>both have similar aerodynamic config. (tail fins+body mounted wings )

 

[smestarz]

@Gessler, you are falsely optimistic about France. EU sanctions are as certain as American sanctions. Any French aircraft is as vulnerable.

India's biggest vulnerability is aero-engines.

French did refuse the delivery of two mistral which did not have American content.
And till the last moment French president was positive to deliver the Mistraals to the Russians, till the Americans told him to behave. Possibly the Amercians reminded him that WW1, WW2 and even Vietnam, they baled France out. and if they dont behave, they are on their own.. And French just rolled over and played dead.

 

[smestarz]

Also, Nehruvian fascination for large industries killed our component industry. Nehru tried to run a marathon without acquiring stamina & endurance for 800 mtrs.
Metallurgy and material science neglected. Precision engineering is not our forte. Design flaws plague DRDO products...
Many foreign technologies were mastered through hit & trial, without understanding the underlying principle, resulting in time & cost overrun.

Seems most errorst that India ever did come and rest at the doors of Nehru - Gandhi Family

 

[guru-dutt]

Found it in a FB group ( as Astra is will be primary weapon of LCA and there is no dedicated Astra AAM thread i am pasting it here ) ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
WHY ASTRA'S RANGE CAN BE 110km
*********************************************************************************************> it is well known that range of AIM-120 C-5 against a non-maneuvering target is more then 105km ..i think most you will agree on it..and AMRAAM is mach 4 capable(4,900 km/h; 3,045 mph; 1.3612 km/s)...weight of AIM-120 C-5 is 155(+ or - 3) kg
> Astra..weight 154kg ..sleeker and shorter then AMRAAM
weight it nearly similar..astra is slightly heavier AMRAAM ( astra's warhead is lighter then AIM-120's..120 can be lighter because better murican electronics )
> specific impulse of fuel+engine and kinematic performance of missile are primary factors which affect range and speed ...here it is obvious that Astra is better in both criteria as it is faster implying more energetic fuel) ..both are capable of pulling ~40g
>wing area of Astra is more then AIM-120's ( as you know 120's wing were clipped ...in case of Astra despite of being redesigned wing are still larger which will be clipped in mark-2 variant )
>both have similar aerodynamic config. (tail fins+body mounted wings )

AIM120C is a class apart it uses all the best and minuterised components had astra had that kind of tech im sure its wieght would be less than 120KG with current specs it has and almost a foot less in leanth yamricans are at least 4 gen ahead of us in this area its better to have something like I Derby ER across all the indian fighters than pouring money to re invent the wheel

 

[cobra commando]

Production of Improved LCAs

The proposal for Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) for ramping up of production of LCA from the present installed capacity of eight to sixteen aircrafts per annum by HAL is being processed.
An expenditure of Rs.1259 Crore has been proposed for this purpose with 50% funding by HAL, 25% by IAF and 25% by Indian Navy, with timeline of 36 months from the date of sanction. A case for additional 80 LCA with four essential capabilities viz Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missiles, Air to Air Refueling (AAR) capability and Electronic Warfare (EW) suite in the upgraded version LCA Mk 1A is being progressed for placing orders. This information was given by Minister of State for Defence Shri Rao Inderjit Singh in a written reply to Shri A.K Selvaraj in Rajya Sabha today.

Production of Improved LCAs

 

[garg_bharat]

AIM120C is a class apart it uses all the best and minuterised components had astra had that kind of tech im sure its wieght would be less than 120KG with current specs it has and almost a foot less in leanth yamricans are at least 4 gen ahead of us in this area its better to have something like I Derby ER across all the indian fighters than pouring money to re invent the wheel

Re-inventing the wheel is necessary. As you say, India should stop growing wheat as Americans grow better wheat. India should also stop making cars as America makes better cars. So on and so forth...

Yours are idiotic remarks.

God save Indian people from likes of you!

Astra's impact cannot be seen in its weight or its 1st gen technology alone. First of all it gives India means to arm its fighters when imports are not possible or too expensive. Secondly it prepares a foundation for development of other missiles.

So I will take an Astra any day.

 

[guru-dutt]

Re-inventing the wheel is necessary. As you say, India should stop growing wheat as Americans grow better wheat. India should also stop making cars as America makes better cars. So on and so forth...

Yours are idiotic remarks.

God save Indian people from likes of you!

Astra's impact cannot be seen in its weight or its 1st gen technology alone. First of all it gives India means to arm its fighters when imports are not possible or too expensive. Secondly it prepares a foundation for development of other missiles.

So I will take an Astra any day.

well brother no need to get personal

now having said about re inventing the wheel i mean this is 21st centuary and we still not able to make a freaking seeker lolzz look at the wieght of akash for example and then look at its range and then compare it with rival with respect to there seeker tech , range & capabllities heck a nation like south africa is making much much better stuff

sorry but i think making astra and pushing it down the IAF throat is wrong we need to keep doing R&D + reverse ingenearing on all types missiles and when they are on par with the needs of the IAF only then select it till that happens we should buy the best we could and do something what chinese had been doing and look where chinese are today and where we are think about it

 

[sasum]

could and do something what chinese had been doing and look where chinese are today and where we are think about it

In the past also I said, "Naqal karne ke liye bhi akal chahiye".
A decade ago the refrain among our patriots was "our scientists & engineers are not paid well, R & D budget is low. Audit is too overbearing". Now that these shortcomings have been removed, ppl talk of Eco-System, national pride etc.
ISRO,BARC & DRDO labs are full of South Indian technocrats, the brain-trust of our country. What has been their collective achievement vis-a-vis Chinese ? whose education system is as pedestrian as ours.

 

[sasum]

Seems most errorst that India ever did come and rest at the doors of Nehru - Gandhi Family

You ask anybody:biggrin2:..Nehru-Indira ruled like monarchs within the framework of Democracy.

 

[garg_bharat]

We do not know what IAF wants because it changes its mind everyday.

So @guru-dutt logic is hollow.

Can we stop this north-indian south-indian non-sense. Nobody stops north indians from becoming scientists.
There is no bar in DRDO from recruiting north Indians.

Does Astra does its job, that is shoot down a plane? Yes or no? Does it matter if it has Russian or American seeker, if it does its job??

India MUST beg, borrow or steal to become a technological nation. There is no shame in it.

 

[sasum]

French did refuse the delivery of two mistral which did not have American content.
And till the last moment French president was positive to deliver the Mistraals to the Russians, till the Americans told him to behave. Possibly the Amercians reminded him that WW1, WW2 and even Vietnam, they baled France out. and if they dont behave, they are on their own.. And French just rolled over and played dead.

Why talk of France? a NATO ally..
US even prevailed upon Russia, its principal adversary and scuttled transfer of cryogenic tech to India.

 

[garg_bharat]

Why talk of France? a NATO ally..
US even prevailed upon Russia, its principal adversary and scuttled transfer of cryogenic tech to India.

It was when Russia was very weak. You guys completely forget events of 1991-92. Ill talking of Russia beyond any common sense or logic is a fashion on this message board.

People forget that Soviet tech helped us in 1965 and 1971, and formed the basis of our heavy and defense industries. What did USSR get from India in return? Today USA wants India to fight its wars in return of very expensive products it sells India.

Guys come out of your stupor.

 

[charlie]

@sasum, I have seen crores worth of computers and precision machines lying unused (or grossly under-used) for years in PSUs and then scrapped.

The waste and inefficiency in public sector is monumental.

To a degree defence is correct that government fails to provide them quality arms through local manufacture. However defence has been very resistant to develop sources in the private sector. This shows something amiss. Defence is very keen to import, even a pin (or a rifle).

Nothing new it happens in all the big companies not just PSU. In past 6 months we were cleaning up our equipment area and threw thing that were state of the art during their time and most of it was brand new.

 

[charlie]

It is embarrassing the way our Sarkari engineers struggled to copy Israli Greenpine (ground based AESA radar) even with their consent. Still vital parts of 'Swordfish' are imported although the software is suitably customised to suit our requirements.

I heard the most challenging part of green pine radar project was the software (took more time and money), rest of it took less time and testing.