ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Panjab47]

The way military industrial development works is

1. Having a good ip
2. 1st Gen will suck by 3rd killer.

Ip rent is very high from west & increasingly russia.

Think about it, just to 'buy' something without tot from us you have to give up your sovereignty, essentially.

You need prototypes & large orders to find & eliminate errors quickly. Lot of 'flaws' are just production or cosmetic related. Like weight,

Only way to fix this is large orders & exports so companies become self-sufficient & competitive.

@guru-dutt you don't get it, India no longer can import. Rest of World wants to punish us for being even little bit less anti-Hindu.

You can either develop indigenously or convert now.

IAF office is full of **** who want nice imported shit & french whores. France as part of nato is not the same france that helped us in kargil.

Interests change, there are no friendships in politics. The mirage 2000 upgrade is a colossal waste of money.

We could have had dozens of mig or su35 by now, instead of this rafale nonsense.

Tejas is only way forward, you need native weapons & they're more than sufficient for majority of chini pak airforce.

 

[sasum]

Nothing new it happens in all the big companies not just PSU. In past 6 months we were cleaning up our equipment area and threw thing that were state of the art during their time and most of it was brand new.

I don't understand your point. You are justifying it?

 

[Kharavela]

India will spend $187 mn to double production of the LCA Tejas

A proposal for doubling the production rate of India's indigenous Light Combat Aircraft is being processed by the Ministry of Defence. A total of US $187 million will be spent to expand the production line of the LCA.

The infusion of money to upgrade assembly lines will allow HAL to ramp up production of the LCA from the present installed capacity of 8 to 16 aircraft per annum. A proposal in this regard is currently being processed with the Cabinet Committee on Security.

The expenditure of $187 mn will be funded by HAL (50%), Indian Air Force (25%) and the Indian Navy (25%). The timeline for this will be 36 months from the date of sanction.

The LCA is currently undergoing multiple upgrades. A new Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missiles, Air to Air Refueling (AAR) capability and Electronic Warfare (EW) suite are being added to its list of sophisticated hardware.

Full scale production of India’s indigenous Light Combat Aircraft, Tejas is expected to begin next year.

Source:
http://www.defencenews.in/article/I...mn-to-double-production-of-the-LCA-Tejas-3563

 

[charlie]

I don't understand your point. You are justifying it?

Yes, I was trying to say it's not just PSU's but I have seen that happening in almost all the places I worked for and that inculdes private defence contractors too.

So blaming PSU's for wasting resources is not correct in some situations.

 

[sasum]

Yes, I was trying to say it's not just PSU's but I have seen that happening in almost all the places I worked for and that inculdes private defence contractors too.

So blaming PSU's for wasting resources is not correct in some situations.

So, when one of the two is doing it wrong it is wrong. When both doing it wrong it is right!! Strange

 

[aerokan]

So, when one of the two is doing it wrong it is wrong. When both doing it wrong it is right!! Strange

It's not about right or wrong.. It's unavoidable in most cases for organizations of that size.. Even private sector popular organizations know for their efficient logistics can't escape it

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[garg_bharat]

No the primary reason in PSU is that nobody cares. Equipment is bought but the intended purpose of the equipment is forgotten. Projects are late or show little progress due to a combination of ego clashes, poor planning, and lack of knowledge.

PSU culture is worse than Babu culture.

 

[charlie]

No the primary reason in PSU is that nobody cares. Equipment is bought but the intended purpose of the equipment is forgotten. Projects are late or show little progress due to a combination of ego clashes, poor planning, and lack of knowledge.

PSU culture is worse than Babu culture.

Ego clashes and lack of knowledge are two things un-heard of in PSU's, lack of testing equipment or other necessary equipment or poor planning may be a problem in PSU's

Just see how Private company runs after hiring retired or experienced employees from BHEL, you will get an idea of what kind of talented people come out from PSU's.

 

[garg_bharat]

I have seen both. PSU = Sleepy people.

Intelligence does not lead to work without effort.

Ego clashes, lack of authority (insubordination), militant labour are widespread problems in PSUs.

PSUs have survived only due to non-competitive State orders.

 

[garg_bharat]

LCA Tejas would be flying with IAF ten years back if HAL was replaced with a private company.
BJP was hamstrung in its last stint, as the job at hand was too big, and the first privatization target were companies with higher economic impact. Then it lost power prematurely. Congress has a habit of ignoring defence. So nothing was done for next 10 years. Obviously forces have become very comfortable with status quo. Who wants local manufacturing??

 

[Pret]

i think these thread has to be renamed as PSU-bashing thread..... :v :v :v sadist bashing PSU just because somebody told 'em something ..well.... carry on

 

[aerokan]

No the primary reason in PSU is that nobody cares. Equipment is bought but the intended purpose of the equipment is forgotten. Projects are late or show little progress due to a combination of ego clashes, poor planning, and lack of knowledge.

PSU culture is worse than Babu culture.

I have seen both. PSU = Sleepy people.

Intelligence does not lead to work without effort.

Ego clashes, lack of authority (insubordination), militant labour are widespread problems in PSUs.

PSUs have survived only due to non-competitive State orders.

You think private sector people care unlike PSU's just because they are 'private' ?
It's not about public or private.. It's more to do with the how the organization is structured..
Any organization that is big and structured in a regular fashion tends to behave the same..be it DRDO or HAL or IAF or 'the largest world class efficient private logistics companies in multiple sectors i worked for'. Nobody cares...Everybody tries to offload the responsibility on to others as there is no incentive to take responsibility and infact get punished for taking risks. Forgotten equipment is the least of their problems..That's why you see that innovative companies like google restructure themself in such a way that they become a cluster of well co-ordinated but independent hubs internally in a hope of tackling these kind of problems with partial success.

LCA Tejas would be flying with IAF ten years back if HAL was replaced with a private company.

Where did HAL comes into picture if the design is not completed or perfected? Don't blame HAL for frequent design changes requested by HAL and the government for releasing too little money for prototypes. HAL maybe a PSU but it can't pour money into anything with no confirmed orders or released money from the govt because if they do so..people will say HAL is an loss making inefficient public sector company that needs to be broken into pieces and sold out.. I think i heard it somewhere...

 

[garg_bharat]

Point 1: A high technology company cannot be compared with a logistics company. A logistics company should be compared with Indian post.

Point 2: You are taken in by propaganda. HAL has had no desire to make LCA a success. It conflicts with their agenda. LCA has been pushed by GOI and DRDO.

Point 3: All large organizations do not behave in the same way. I have seen fairly efficient large organizations.

 

[aerokan]

Point 1: A high technology company cannot be compared with a logistics company. A logistics company should be compared with Indian post.

Point 2: You are taken in by propaganda. HAL has had no desire to make LCA a success. It conflicts with their agenda. LCA has been pushed by GOI and DRDO.

Point 3: All large organizations do not behave in the same way. I have seen fairly efficient large organizations.

Seems like you haven't read my post properly.. Or you missed everything I said!!

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[myana]

Point 2: You are taken in by propaganda. HAL has had no desire to make LCA a success. It conflicts with their agenda. LCA has been pushed by GOI and DRDO.

Can you please explain us ignorant What is the Agenda of HAL & How does it conflicts their interest if they manufacture LCA if they can manufacture Su30MKI, Hawk, Mig21 & its versions, Alouette(chetak), Lama(cheetah) which are designed by different companies (not HAL)?

 

[garg_bharat]

@myana, you have given a list, and everything on this list except LCA is license manufacture.

You conveniently forgot the one fighter that was designed and built in India.

What happened to HJT-36? It first flew in 2003. What is it's status??

What happened to 20 IOC-1 LCA?? Questions are many but the answers are few.

 

[garg_bharat]

Seems like you haven't read my post properly.. Or you missed everything I said!!

Sent from my 6045I using Tapatalk

I am not in the business of reading your mind. Spell out clearly.

 

[myana]

@myana, you have given a list, and everything on this list except LCA is license manufacture.

You conveniently forgot the one fighter that was designed and built in India.

What happened to HJT-36? It first flew in 2003. What is it's status??

What happened to 20 IOC-1 LCA?? Questions are many but the answers are few.

You said HAL has some hidden agenda & it wants LCA to fail and I asked you what is it and why does it wants LCA to fails and instead of answering me you are asking me irrelevant questions. Please reread my post and answer it.

 

[garg_bharat]

You said HAL has some hidden agenda & it wants LCA to fail and I asked you what is it and why does it wants LCA to fails and instead of answering me you are asking me irrelevant questions. Please reread my post and answer it.

You first answer the questions I asked before I answer yours.
If you think you are a smartass, prove yourself first.

 

[myana]

You said

Point 1: A high technology company cannot be compared with a logistics company. A logistics company should be compared with Indian post.

Point 2: You are taken in by propaganda. HAL has had no desire to make LCA a success. It conflicts with their agenda. LCA has been pushed by GOI and DRDO.

Point 3: All large organizations do not behave in the same way. I have seen fairly efficient large organizations.

I asked :

Can you please explain us ignorant What is the Agenda of HAL & How does it conflicts their interest if they manufacture LCA if they can manufacture Su30MKI, Hawk, Mig21 & its versions, Alouette(chetak), Lama(cheetah) which are designed by different companies (not HAL)?

you replied:

@myana, you have given a list, and everything on this list except LCA is license manufacture.

You conveniently forgot the one fighter that was designed and built in India.

What happened to HJT-36? It first flew in 2003. What is it's status??

What happened to 20 IOC-1 LCA?? Questions are many but the answers are few.

I again asked you:

You said HAL has some hidden agenda & it wants LCA to fail and I asked you what is it and why does it wants LCA to fails and instead of answering me you are asking me irrelevant questions. Please reread my post and answer it.

you replied back:

You first answer the questions I asked before I answer yours.
If you think you are a smartass, prove yourself first.

I think you seriously have some with your reading comprehension.

Coming to the point of the answering your questions
1. When HAL is selected as Manufacturer(Final Assembler) from its prospective it doesn't have a difference between the any item it is manufactured whether it is designed in India or by others. from its prospective it doesn't have difference between su30(designed by sukhio) & lca(designed by ada). All it needs the blue prints and details of components.

if there is any problem with an aircraft produced by HAL first it checks whether the issue was caused by Maintence(MRO of IAF) or Manufacturing defect(caused by HAL) finally checked for whether the problem is inherent issue of the plane(should be solved by Designer either sukhio,bae or ada depends on the which plane and who the designer is).

2. HJT 36 Sitara initially faced with problems of lack of thrust the replaced the Larzac 04-H-20 engine with Saturn AL-55I. The delivery of higher thrust Engine by Saturn delayed so which in turn delayed the integration, testing, certification and others. During final tests airframe had come across Stall Recovery problems which was caused due to the assymetric design of Sitara. HAL sought consultation help from BAE to speed up the fixing process but eventually the Airframe(deisgn of fuselage, tail & wing) had to be redesigned. As airframe has been changed the everything had to be started from step1. As of now two redesigned prototypes were built and are under going test.

3. 20 LCAs ordered of IOC 2 config not IOC1, rest 20 FOC Config later first 20 IOC2 planes delivered will be retrofitted to FOC config. Sp1 has been delivered and rest of them are in the line. RM said 3-4 will be delivered this year and 8 squadrons in 8 years.