ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[su35]

Do LCA will have Kh 29? Do indian air force operate any tv guided missile

 

[sasum]

Good news if true.. ! Actually to early to think about exporting in my opinion.

http://idrw.org/srilanka-tipped-to-be-first-export-customer-for-lca-tejas/

Sri Lanka shows interest in Indian combat aircraft
Published February 12, 2016


SOURCE: Colombo Gazette

Sri Lanka has reportedly shown interest in purchasing Light combat aircraft (LCA) Tejas from India.Light combat aircraft (LCA) Tejas is the multi-role light fighter that is in development with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), and recently showcased its acrobatic skills successfully at Bahrain International Airshow 2016, a first such display outside India.

Though the aircraft has been in development for some years now, India’s southern neighbour Sri Lanka is said to be interested in LCA Tejas, the International Business Times reported. Sources close to India Today have said Sri Lanka could be a possible export customer.

It had been previously reported that Sri Lanka had shown interest in the Sino-Pakistani collaborative multi-role jet fighter JF-17 Thunder, but the country’s defence minister denied such reports. It was also suggested that the one of the reasons for the cancellation could be New Delhi’s “diplomatic missive” deferring it from buying the JF-17 Thunder.

During the recent Bahrain International Airshow 2016, the HAL chief had revealed several countries had enquired about LCA Tejas after its successful showcase.

LCA Tejas was seen performing 8-G (gravity) pull, vertical loop, slow fly-past and barrel roll, and the officials present at the event termed the flight a “historic event”.

Recently, LCA Tejas test-fired Derby Beyond Visual Air-to-Air missile and there will be more such tests.

The aircraft is yet to obtain its Final Operational Clearance (FOC) as it has to receive certification of the integration of Derby BVR missiles and GSh-23 autocannon, air-to-air refuelling probe, increase in the angle of attack, and enhanced braking system quartz model of nose cone radome.

An upgraded LCA Tejas MK-1A will feature modern AESA radar, and aerial refuelling probe better for service maintenance. The Indian Air Force has reportedly ordered over 100 Tejas MK-1As.

The Mark 2 version of the aircraft is a more advanced version that will feature a powerful engine and incorporate fifth-generation jet fighter elements.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

When the lca fleet builds up and availability and servicing is required

Wouldn't it be beneficial if 3d printing tech is used to spot mfg parts required in base depots to cut down inventory and time ?

 

[R.parida]

Guys any idea, does LCA MK1A improvement consist of On-board Oxygen Generation System (OBOGS)?

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Guys any idea, does LCA MK1A improvement consist of On-board Oxygen Generation System (OBOGS)?

Most probably yes

That will be one of the systems reducing weight

 

[sorcerer]

IDN TAKE: Know About the RAFAEL I-Derby-ER BVR Missile?
Having test fired the Derby Beyond Visual Range (BVR) active radar-guided air-to-air missile on the LCA TEJAS in February 2016, and RAFAEL having unveiling its new extended range version of its Beyond Visual Range (BVR) active radar-guided air-to-air missile, the I-Derby-ER (Extended Range) in Oct 2015, it would be interesting to learn about this iconic series of air-to-air combat assets. The I-Derby-ER is an evolutionary version of the Derby BVR missile, and it entered service in the mid-1990s and is fielded with six customers worldwide which includes India.

The I-Derby-ER variant has an advanced solid-state Software Defined Radar (SDR) which is based on combat proven technologies of RAFAEL's Iron Dome Missile Defense System. The new seeker is lighter and more compact than its predecessor, paving the way to augment its propulsion system for the terminal phase. This new addition increases the range of the I-Derby ER beyond 100 km., significantly more than its current short-medium range capability.

A RAFAEL engineer explains “This phase is not serial, but operates independently of the primary rocket propulsion as it is activated at any time during the fight, by the flight control system.”, which means that the added propulsion system improves the missile’s performance. He goes on to add "The second pulse would likely kick in when the missile is closing on its target, accelerating it and increasing its kinematic envelope."

The SDR technology is a significant addition since the missile seeker software can be upgraded such as duty cycles and processing techniques, new waveforms,addressing new threats, countermeasures and techniques that may evolve during the lifespan of the missile. Like many other modern BVR missiles the I-Derby ER has the ability to lock onto targets before and after launch, enabling the weapon to engage targets at all ranges.



Currently completing development, I-Derby ER will soon be available for delivery for new orders, or replacement of existing stocks. “We already have several customers seeking long-range intercept capabilities, some are looking at I-Derby ER as the most suitable and affordable solution for their requirements,” says RAFAEL.

India and Israel have recently agreed to work on an enhanced variant of ELTA's airborne Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) fire control radar (EL-2052) for Tejas MK-1A fighter aircraft and will also features the I-Derby-ER BVRAAM as the front runner along with the indigenous Astra Air Defence System.

Indian engineers have already integrated & tested the previous generation of Derby missiles on the Tejas MK-1 jet, which will be demonstrating the first BVR missile firing capabilities in the Iron fist 2016 Exercisewhere Tejas is expected to demonstrate its swing role capabilities while engaging ground based target and switch to fire BVR missile in same mission simultaneously. This will be a significant achievement in ensuring engagement of hostile intrusions in the beyond visual range combat scenarios, it is also worthy to note that only a select few have this aggregated capability.

Meanwhile, I-Derby ER integration tests are currently under way on the Tejas.

Admin - IDN
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/02/idn-take-know-about-rafael-i-derby-er.html

 

[tejas warrior]

http://indianexpress.com/article/op...at-aircraft-tejas-iaf-rafale-deal-taking-off/

 

[tsunami]

So we are getting only 36 aircraft for 270 million for a piece

Why not just cancel the deal. All this money can go into LCA and AMCA development.
And I see many guys says we need Rafale for technology transfer for AMCA. We have developed many technology on our own in past.

And still Rafale doesn't solve many problems we are going to face for AMCA.

Currently Identified challenges are

1. 5th Gen Engine (110-115 Kn thrust)
2. Design Stealth and RAM coating.
3. Internal Weapon Bay
4. Thrust Vectoring
5. Next gen. Avionics

Other then the last point, I don't see any of these problem solved from fucking $10 billion deal. Which we can also get by having joint venture with Israel.

 

[sasum]

So we are getting only 36 aircraft for 270 million for a piece

Why not just cancel the deal. All this money can go into LCA and AMCA development.
And I see many guys says we need Rafale for technology transfer for AMCA. We have developed many technology on our own in past.

And still Rafale doesn't solve many problems we are going to face for AMCA.

Currently Identified challenges are

1. 5th Gen Engine (110-115 Kn thrust)
2. Design Stealth and RAM coating.
3. Internal Weapon Bay
4. Thrust Vectoring
5. Next gen. Avionics

Other then the last point, I don't see any of these problem solved from fucking $10 billion deal. Which we can also get by having joint venture with Israel.

Here is excerpts from airforce-technology.com, written by blogger Chris Lo claiming how easy it is to counter stealth technology with primitive long-wave passive radars.

The evolution of anti-stealth detection
Even with the huge investment being poured into stealth aircraft, the technology hardly provides fighters with the power of invisibility. Technologies, both highly advanced and surprisingly low-tech, exist that are able to spot stealth aircraft.

That much was proved back in 1999 when a US F-117 stealth ground-attack aircraft was shot down over Yugoslavia, having been spotted by long-wavelength radar after its radar signature was briefly raised when its bomb-bay doors opened.

The availability of information on counter-stealth technologies remains low, but it's clear that adaptations of generations-old radar technology have the potential to turn the invisible visible.

Very high frequency (VHF) and ultra high frequency (UHF), pioneered in the 1940s, is still used today for long-range aerial surveillance. These frequencies, as explained by Arend G. Westra in a 2009 issue of Joint Force Quarterly, can confound stealth techniques by operating on decimetre to metre-long wavelengths.

The meeting of wavelengths between radar and aircraft causes resonation between the two, significantly raising an aircraft's reflection in the radar spectrum, making it much more visible. VHF radar has been incorporated into the Russian military's 1L119 Nebo SVU, its first VHF-band active electronically steered array (AESA); although detailed analysis of this vehicle-mounted array, Russian sources report it has achieved excellent results in spotting stealth aircraft.

"Adaptations of generations-old radar technology have the potential to turn the invisible visible."
Passive radar is another well-established, relatively inexpensive technology that has potential against LO aircraft. This system uses multiple transmitters of opportunity to collate data, estimating aircraft positions by calculating the intersection of the receiver-to-target bearing and the bistatic range ellipse. In the past, these estimates have been too inaccurate to be useful, but modern advances in signal and digital processing, along with the availability of sophisticated, low-cost hardware, make passive radar a viable way to detect stealth targets. Passive radar systems in the defence market include Lockheed Martin's Silent Sentry passive coherent location (PCL) system.

The game-changing advance for passive radar technology will be the ability to identify targets as well as track them, allowing passive radar to integrate with surface-to-air missile defence systems.

While the concurrent development of the latest generation of stealth-enabled fighters constitutes an arms race in itself, this race sits within a wider technological contest between stealth and counter-stealth technologies and techniques. Governments around the world are pouring investment into stealth aircraft development programmes, but it remains to be seen if these costly paragons of modern military hardware will end up undone by the evolution of comparatively modest radar systems.

 

[G10]

Chinese J10B is far superior to even the most optimistic configuration of Tejas conceivable by the mind of man. Tejas is like Indian man, small, weak and outdated. Cancel the Tejas project and buy Gripen instead.

Thanks for the tip. We will do what we think is right.

 

[tsunami]

Chinese J10B is far superior to even the most optimistic configuration of Tejas conceivable by the mind of man. Tejas is like Indian man, small, weak and outdated. Cancel the Tejas project and buy Gripen instead.

You know F-22 and F-35 both are far too superior to even anything J-20 can become in next 50 years. J-20 is like Chinese man cheap, 2nd class useless. Cancel the Project and beg Russian for PAKFA instead.

 

[cobra commando]

LCA Tejas at the Bahrain Air Show 2016

 

[tejas warrior]

Reasons Why the Modi govt stuck on Rafale
Posted on February 19, 2016 by Bharat Karnad
Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar in a TV interview (to Karan Thapar) yesterday evening sounded very determined that 36 Rafales would be brought from Dassault Avions, France, and that Paris would have to meet Delhi’s stated price (not exceeding $7 billion, which figure, of course, he didn’t mention). In this context, when queried about the significance of the MOU (Memorandum of Understanding) signed when Hollande was here for the Republic Day parade, he stated that this document is “meaningful only to the extent that the procedure [for advancing the deal] is laid out.” The only relief for India, ironically, would be if the French too stick to their negotiating figure of $11+ billion.

The trouble with making price the decisive factor — “Price, he said, “is the only issue…is the problem”, and implied India would walk away from the deal unless India “gets the right price” — is that all the other negatives attending on this horrendous buy are sought to be ignored. While the Indian position is now firmed up, Parrikar’s support for the Rafale suggests that despite his instinct telling him to go in for many more Su-30MKIs obtainable for the same investment, the BJP regime feels bound to honour PM Narendra Modi’s word to Hollande, and is doing its mostest to get the deal done, whatever the other costs (such as complicating operations, logistics, infrastructure, etc) that the IAF and country will have to bear for decades to come.

This raises the question — what exactly is Paris’ quid for the Indian quo? Some well connected persons believe it is Hollande’s promise of supporting India’s candidature for a permanent seat in the UN Security Council, whenever that issue formally comes up for consideration. Realistically speaking, and short of the UN imploding as did the League of Nations in the 1930s when that body proved incapable of stopping Mussolini from occupying Ethiopia, Imperial Japan from absorbing Manchuria, and Hitler from taking over the Sudentanland region of Czechoslovakia, and a new world body is erected in its place, that is never. The provincial politician in Modi, however, seems to be acting as per the Gujarati trader’s credo of honouring a verbal commitment. Except the Rafale deal is in the external realm where “the word” counts for less than nothing, a fact-of-life the PM either does not understand and, if he does, does not quite appreciate. And India ends up paying the price. Any argument therefore about the uneconomical aspects of the Rafale deal are for the birds!

But why’s the IAF so dumb as to disregard the operational aspects and push so vehemently for the Rafale? In a previous piece, I had stated that for the unit cost of $270 million per Rafale, India could buy three LCAs @ $90 million or 2 Su-MKIs @ $130 million. Vice Admiral AK Singh, former FOC-in-C, Eastern Naval Command, and a stalwart of the military procurement process, called to say that my figures were, perhaps, for fully weaponised Tejas and Su-30 and, by way of more “correct” figures, mentioned that the cost of a clean Tejas (as released by HAL) is $30 million, and $50 million for a Su-30MKI. By the AK Singh calculus then the country can have NINE LCAs or FIVE Su-30s. Fully armed and equipped, the cost figures for these three aircraft get even more skewed. A basic weapons load (of A2A missiles & A2G rockets/bombs) will up the price of a Rafale to $400 million per aircraft, $50 million/Tejas, and $90 million/Su-30. Thus, all-up cost ($400 million) of a Rafale will actually fetch IAF EIGHT fully-armed Tejas and 4.5 Su-30s.

In my books and writings have stressed the importance of quantity over quality, and how an exorbitantly-priced Rafale, assuming it is fielded in war considering the Indian military’s inclination to not deploy its most prized platforms during hostilities (recall Vikrant confined to Vizag harbour during the 1965 War! Mirage 2000 was featured in Kargil because of Vajpayee govt’s order to IAF not to cross LoC) would be swarmed and killed by the more numerous Pakistan-assembled, Russian MiG-21 design Chinese rejigged JF-17s, say, each costing Islamabad no more than $22 million. (The $22 million price tag for the JF-17 being disclosed to VADM Singh by retd PAF AVM Shehzad Chaudhury at a recent 2nd-track meet.)

Indian armed services are known for stodginess, not strategic imagination and operational verve. And the civilian bureaucrats running the show in MOD are entirely innocent of any specialized knowledge. So one can pretty much know the quality of advice provided the national security-wise unlettered politicians. Even so, one expected Parrikar to be a bit more on the ball, use his common sense and publicly available information to +try and convince Modi about the sheer wastefulness of the Rafale deal, and decide on more reasonable, money-saving, options (including purchasing Mirage 2000s from UAE and Qatar, as proposed in an earlier blog).

Then again, just may be, IIT grads are not all they are cracked up to be.

 

[Pulkit]

Have been away for quite some time...Sorry for the repeated requests.
Can any body share the recent update on Tejas?

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Does anybody know that new redome of quartz designed by cobham is same in design as the old one of composite or a new desgned one which is 0.5 M longer. It was proposed for aerodynamic improvement.

 

[Pret]

from aame ..RFI from ADA ( new radome )

 

[Pret]

RFI from ADA ( new radome )-2

 

[Pret]

RFI from ADA ( new radome )-3

 

[garg_bharat]

Thanks. Considering they plan to produce mk1a from 2018, can they order and get 404 engines at such short notice, specially when they are IN version and not standard versions? I thought they would need to place orders years in advance. Also, since mk1a is replacing mk2 orders of 100 planes, would they replace 414 with 404 orders since they wouldn't need 414 engines in the short term. It is notable that 414 deliveries were meant to begin this year.

I guess HAL has sufficient engines it ordered earlier. There is no engine crisis. More can be ordered as needed.

 

[akk]

Thanks. I think 40 were ordered earlier. Probably 20 for testing versions and 20 for squadron. I would guess about 20-25 would be left. Depending upon their capacity, these may be utilised in the next 2 years or so. I don't think they ever ordered 404in for 1a version. So they need 100 more sooner rather than later. I don't know the incubation. Also, they had ordered about 100 414 engines, delivery was originally meant to bdgin last year. 414 engines are useless at present. So I wonder what's the status of ge engines. I haven't come across any news or discussion. Just curious (and worried)!