ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[AbRaj]

................. Duplicate post...................

 

[HariPrasad-1]

1000kg does seem too much. If so much weight has to be reduced then the plan will have to be redesigned because the center of gravity and all other parameters will change. Broadly speaking, I think what they are trying to do is to have Tejas Mk1 and Mk2 with same thrust/weight ratio. Mk2 will be heavier but with more powerful engine. Mk1 will have a weaker engine but weight will also be less. But 1000kg weight reduction seems too drastic.

Weight of MK2 is reduced to 6150 KG i.e 350 to 400 kg less inspite of being longer by 50 cm. MK1 a will have somewhat 500 KG weight reduction. 300 KG dead weight + landing gear weight reduction. It will have 55 to 60 Kg more fuel. 8% lower Drag. 20% higher trans sonic acceleration. 2% higher speed at sea level.

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

Truth is that they messed up big time with engine development and are now trying to get rid of that to import one more State of the Art weapon(engine)
Man its frustrating saga

It's extremely frustrating, no denying that. One can understand a decade of development, but 25 year and still a faulty engine means there is a failure at a very high level. The IAF also contributed to this sabotage since they kept changing their requirements and remained uncooperative with HAL/DRDO. In the US, the airforce pilots have direct access to their weapons development scientists. Whenever they need some upgrades or need to give feedback after a flight, they go to the scientist and say "this is not working for us, this is how it needs to be" and the scientists tweak it. In India, the only person the IAF talks to is the press. They give silent treatment to DRDO for 20 years and when asked for accountability the IAF takes a press conference to announce that DRDO is incompetent and can't make a plane. National interest has been taken for a ride by the IAF who only loves to fly expensive, imported planes.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

It's extremely frustrating, no denying that. One can understand a decade of development, but 25 year and still a faulty engine means there is a failure at a very high level. The IAF also contributed to this sabotage since they kept changing their requirements and remained uncooperative with HAL/DRDO. In the US, the airforce pilots have direct access to their weapons development scientists. Whenever they need some upgrades or need to give feedback after a flight, they go to the scientist and say "this is not working for us, this is how it needs to be" and the scientists tweak it. In India, the only person the IAF talks to is the press. They give silent treatment to DRDO for 20 years and when asked for accountability the IAF takes a press conference to announce that DRDO is incompetent and can't make a plane. National interest has been taken for a ride by the IAF who only loves to fly expensive, imported planes.

The need of hour is to tell them that you are not going to get any foreign mall till desi mall is available. They should know that they will have to do with desi mall and they won't get any kick back. We did excellent job in missile as they were not available under missile technology control regime. If our ministry of defense strictly imposes their order on armed forces than they will also start taking interest in desi stuff. Like we moved from Prithvi to A5 and Whole K series, we may get a very contemporary aircraft in next decade to decade and half.

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

The need of hour is to tell them that you are not going to get any foreign mall till desi mall is available. They should know that they will have to do with desi mall and they won't get any kick back. We did excellent job in missile as they were not available under missile technology control regime. If our ministry of defense strictly imposes their order on armed forces than they will also start taking interest in desi stuff. Like we moved from Prithvi to A5 and Whole K series, we may get a very contemporary aircraft in next decade to decade and half.

Exactly. Foreign fighters is a false choice anyway. The planes seem to be available only until war breaks out but once war is on, suddenly someone imposes arms embargo and we have to ground the whole fleet due to spare parts. In that sense a weaker desi plane that flies is better than a stronger imported plane that wont fly. This needs to be drilled in their head. You either use desi planes and win the war or we will get invaded and you are responsible. The option of buying foreign planes is off the table.

The IAF's job is to further national agenda but these brats think the other way round. They think the nation's job is to pamper IAF's agenda

 

[HariPrasad-1]

What I understand is that center of gravity will not change. If you look at the data Tejas was always suppose to be a fighter with 5.5 tons empty weight. But the main structure was over weight most of which due to heavy landing gear and that's why they have to put 300 KGs of Ballast weight in the nose of the fighter to keep it's center of gravity at correct position.

Now they can only remove the Ballast weight if the landing gear and main structure weight is decreased. This means that if they are successful to reduce 400+ KGs of weight from main structure then they will be able to remove approx 200 kgs of Ballast weight. Also I believe that IFR probe and new AESA radar will have some extra weight which will be slatted by rest of the Ballast weight.

But yes 1000 kg weight reduction is just too much. 600 Kg is possible without changing the center of gravity of the fighter. This will improve the thrust to weight ratio of the fighter by 7-8% with the same engine and will not required much testing. But I am no expert just saying what I read and understand.

See if there is a major change in center of gravity than it will be a problem. Fly by wire is more than capable to take care of any small change in plane's weight reduction.

 

[Pulkit]

See if there is a major change in center of gravity than it will be a problem. Fly by wire is more than capable to take care of any small change in plane's weight reduction.

can u explain in detail the impact of weight reduction on Fly By wire tech.
The centre of gravity will change and to loose more they might be planning to add a balancing weight aswell.

I am not sure but while designing a fuselage i had read that even the fuel weight has an impact as the fuel gets used up there is a tech used to maintain an optimum balance .

I might be wrong but can you please elaborate as you have a small change in weight will not have any impact....?

 

[sorcerer]

106 Upgraded Tejas Jets to Replace MiGs

Mark 1-A expected to be ready in 2 years
‘Tejas Mark 1-A’ will fill the void created by MiG-21 and MiG-27 jets that will be phased out by 2022
Jets will be manufactured locally with 43 improvements
First aircraft will be ready by 2018; production of entire fleet would be over by 2022-2023
by Ajay Banerjee

The Ministry of Defence has decided to locally produce 106 upgraded Light Combat Aircraft “Tejas” jets to replace the ageing fleet of MiG fighter aircraft of the Indian Air Force.
The “Tejas Mark 1-A” will have 43 improvements over the existing Tejas currently being test-flown by the IAF for various parameters and slated for final operation clearance in March. The existing project is running years behind schedule.

Sources told The Tribune that a decision has been taken to produce 106 “Tejas Mark 1-A” jets and the same has been conveyed to the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), besides the manufacturer — Bangalore-based Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), a public sector undertaking owned by MoD.

The MoD has set a 2018 deadline for the first aircraft to be ready with a target to complete its production by 2022-2023. In September, new specifications were agreed upon and the IAF accepted 43 modifications that could be carried out without changing the existing design.

On the list of modifications are five major improvements, including an AESA (active electronically scanned array) radar, which the HAL will co-develop with Israel firm Elta; air-to-air refuelling facility; externally fitted self-protection jammer to prevent incoming enemy missiles from homing in using radar signature; and a new layout, involving 27 modifications, of internal systems to iron out maintenance issues.

The plane will be 1,000 kg lighter than the existing version, which currently weighs 6,500 kg, but will use the same engine — General Electric’s 404. “The power of the engine is more than enough,” said a senior functionary. Fitting the newer and more powerful GE-414 engine would entail fresh design and airframe studies.

The HAL has been asked to produce 16 jets annually and a Rs 1,252-crore modernisation plan has been okayed to ramp up capacities from the present six-seven planes annually.

The decision will go a long way in keeping the IAF battle-ready. The upgraded jets will fill the void created by MiG-21s and MiG-27s that will be phased out by 2022.

There are 260 Soviet-era single-engine MiG-21 and MiG-27 jets in the IAF fleet. The air force needs 400 jets over the next 10 years.
Source>>

 

[Chinmoy]

It's extremely frustrating, no denying that. One can understand a decade of development, but 25 year and still a faulty engine means there is a failure at a very high level. The IAF also contributed to this sabotage since they kept changing their requirements and remained uncooperative with HAL/DRDO. In the US, the airforce pilots have direct access to their weapons development scientists. Whenever they need some upgrades or need to give feedback after a flight, they go to the scientist and say "this is not working for us, this is how it needs to be" and the scientists tweak it. In India, the only person the IAF talks to is the press. They give silent treatment to DRDO for 20 years and when asked for accountability the IAF takes a press conference to announce that DRDO is incompetent and can't make a plane. National interest has been taken for a ride by the IAF who only loves to fly expensive, imported planes.

Kaveri in itself is not a faulty system. But it had not been integrated in Tejas due to its low thrust. Take into consideration the fact that it has been planned in 80's and been worked upon in 90's. At that time no one came up and told that we need a engine to have a WET thrust of around 100KN. No one from consumer side put or forwarded any suggestion. Leave alone the engine, not even a thought had been shared on the whole platform. How then anyone could expect desk jockeys to think ahead of time and design something from scratch?

In fact some kuddos should be there for all the engineers that they finally did made one working engine inspite of all those sanctions. Now effort should be given to refinement and polishing of the shortfalls. If Kaveri has not materialized, then the blame is more on IAF for their short shortsightedness then on the desk jockeys and politburo.

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

Kaveri in itself is not a faulty system. But it had not been integrated in Tejas due to its low thrust. Take into consideration the fact that it has been planned in 80's and been worked upon in 90's. At that time no one came up and told that we need a engine to have a WET thrust of around 100KN. No one from consumer side put or forwarded any suggestion. Leave alone the engine, not even a thought had been shared on the whole platform. How then anyone could expect desk jockeys to think ahead of time and design something from scratch?

In fact some kuddos should be there for all the engineers that they finally did made one working engine inspite of all those sanctions. Now effort should be given to refinement and polishing of the shortfalls. If Kaveri has not materialized, then the blame is more on IAF for their short shortsightedness then on the desk jockeys and politburo.

I agree. When did I ever say that DRDO or HAL did a bad job? I am cursing the IAF for not cooperating with our R&D agencies.

 

[halloweene]

Whtever DRDO or HAL result is, they started frome near scratch and learned a lot. That knowledge should be preciously preserved.

 

[akk]

Can anybody please reply?.....
What is the status of 404 engines needed for mk1a? ARE they being ordered? Would they come in lieu of 414 engines previously ordered or will be new order? There is no media report discussing this. Please enlighten!

 

[cannonfodder]

http://idrw.org/tejas-hero-suneet-krishna-is-no-longer-iaf-face/

That was till January 31. On February 1, this top gun walked away to the corporate world at the end of a wrangle between the country’s defence scientists and the Indian Air Force (IAF). At one point, it reached the office of defence minister Manohar Parrikar, and the minister reportedly advised the top brass of DRDO and IAF to put an end to their disagreement.

The reason? Group Captain Suneet Krishna (Retd) was considered a ‘civilian test pilot’ by the air strike wing because he opted for voluntary retirement from IAF in 2012, and therefore could not occupy the captain’s seat.

“He was torpedoed by the air force though he holds the record of flying all types of fighters, and even some transport jets, for close to 5,000 hours. If Brazilian pilots could occupy the captain’s seat when the Embraer-145 aircraft was bought for AEW&C project, how can the IAF prevent its former pilot from doing so? His exit will be a great loss for both ‘Tejas’ and AEW&C projects because no-one can match his expertise,” remarked his former commandant who also played a key role in these projects.

 

[hriday]

we have to wait 26 dec 2016 till arup raha retire .....he need to go

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Question is production has not yet reached 8 per year.
till March 2015: SP01 delivered
till March 2016: Only SP2 is expected to be delivered.

(as per updates from FB, HAL will produce only 2 till March 2017 !!)

So, when HAL produced 8 per year ? Which they are claiming they will make 16 now.

Well it may have reached to 4 as per planning and may reach to 8 next year as per planning

Now this is something for which output can be seen only after 24/ months

Till then all those 4/+ 8 will remain on the shop floor in various stages

 

[bennedose]

Tejas at Bahrain - with my comments/titles

 

[Pret]

team LCA still @Jamnagar BVR trials might be conducted within 7-10 days

 

[tejas warrior]

team LCA still @Jamnagar BVR trials might be conducted within 7-10 days

As per FB updates, in first week of February.

So, fingers crossed and waiting for good news any day.

 

[Prashant12]

LCA Tejas Update:

 

[Ved]

Is it I Derby ER? It would be great if it is. Now its python 5 turn.