ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
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Kunal Biswas

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IAF serving test pilots have something else have to say, According to them Tejas MK1 is same or better than those Upgraded Mir-2000, I too believe that and many in the force serving believes it ..

I suggest you should stop this disinformation which used to be a top slogan in terrorist forum created by green members, This thread is a treasure pot, lurk into it for more information before knee jerking between it ..

============

Are you sancho ..

MK1 is just a technology demonstrator and more close to trainer..
 

Kunal Biswas

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So this is MK1.5 ..

@Pulkit @Khagesh @ersakthivel

Finally we are getting more details of so called LCA MK 1.5 which is officially named LCA-1P which is LCA Mk-1 with AESA Radar andelectro-optic Electronic Warfare (EW) sensor suite

Read the whole details below.
HAL developing LCA-1P with AESA Radar


Bangalore. India’s Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas programme has been delayed indeed, but to make up for it, HAL is now working on developing a new variant, LCA-I P, which will be equipped with an advanced AESA Radar and an electro-optic Electronic Warfare (EW) sensor suite.


The timeline for this variant has been set at 2017, two years from now. The AESA radar will be supplied by Israel’s ELTA Systems, a subsidiary of Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI). ELTA had earlier supplied its AEW&C (Airborne Early Warning & Control) system for IAF’s IL-76 based Intelligence and surveillance aircraft, designated by IAF as AWACS (Airborne Warning & Control Systems) aircraft.

AESA, or Active Electronically Scanned Array radar, is the key component in the AWACS, enabling a 360 degree look-down-and-around capability to IAF for about 400 km. The aircraft is designed to guide combat fleets and ground assets in a war scenario. With no moving part, AESA is much faster in capability than earlier airborne radars in which rotodomes moved mechanically – and rather slowly – to scan different areas.

AESA in fact was always in the LCA programme, and there were discussions with some foreign companies as well as with the state-run BEL in developing it. Finally the choice has gone to ELTA, which in any case has been collaborating with BEL. LCA also has a sophisticated fly by wire system and glass cockpit. Once the programme gets going, HAL may manufacture some 200 aircraft for IAF and perhaps another 100 for the Navy.

AESA in the LCAs will obviously have a lower range, but it will be well integrated within the IAF network, and give a quantum technology jump to IAF’s combat capability. Notably, the 36 Rafales being acquired by IAF in the Government-to-Government deal will also have the AESA radar, developed by Thales.

IAF’s AWACS aircraft – three delivered, two on order – are already integrated with its combat, transport and land assets and also networked with aircraft of the Indian Navy.

HAL has in principle support from the Government, and is now working on the proposal with the IAF (Indian Air Force) in this regard. This variant will be developed on the existing LCA-MkI model, and will meet IAF’s requirements till the larger LCA Mk II is developed by 2021 with the more powerful GE 414 engine.

HAL Chairman and Managing Director (CMD) T Suvarna Raju told India Strategic in an interview that HAL shared the technology concerns of the user – IAF – as well as the urgency for production of the aircraft in view of the falling numbers of IAF combat squadrons due to obsolescence. The AESA and EW suite will make the new LCA variant more advanced than the supersonic MiG 21s in capability, even though it will be a subsonic aircraft compared to the ageing aircraft of the Soviet vintage.

A key technology being adopted now is 3D printing, which will cut design and production time by months. This is now being used for engines but it is being adopted for various aspects of aircraft design and production.

P in the LCA-I P stands for prototype, but once accepted by IAF, it could be designated LCA-MkI-A or whatever.



LCA-MkI, which achieved IOC-II (Initial Operational Capability, stage II) in January 2014 for acceptance by IAF as it is produced and tested, is yet to get the FOC (Final Operational Capability) but the focus now is on adding the EW package, originally planned for the LCA-MkII.

The aircraft will continue to have the same GE 404 engine however in this variant, but the lack of adequate power will be compensated by the warfare capability generated by the new sensors, with AESA providing a formidable force multiplication. This type of radar uses multiple frequencies to electronically scan several targets simultaneously.

The earlier radars used to have mechanically moving parts, whose output was painfully slow compared to the new generation electronic technology.

Notably, US companies Raytheon and Northrop Grumman have an established lead in the AESA systems while in Europe, Thales has just about achieved it for installation on Rafale and Eurofighter aircraft. In fact, AESA was a key requirement for India’s MMRCA (Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft) competition, and the 36 Rafale jets being acquired from France should have both the AESA as well as the Infra Red Search and Track (IRST) system.

Israel is known for its excellence in electronic warfare systems, and ELTA should be able to meet IAF’s specific requirements.

Notably, IAF is not happy with the GE 404 engine, regarding it as underpowered for warfare. But only 40 aircraft are slated for production with this engine. For LCA-MkII aircraft, there is an agreement for 99 GE 414 engines already with the US engine maker. The production of that aircraft is due to begin from 2021.



The new LCA-MkI-P variant with the EW Package will also add some 50 kilos of more weight, but then, Mr Raju explained, the capability of the aircraft increases significantly, offsetting the disadvantage of a smaller engine.

The current LCA-MkI version uses 210 kilos with ballast in the nose to stabilize the aircraft. This will be removed, and the AESA and EW suite weighing about 250 kilos will be added. The net weight gain will be of about 50 kilos.

LCA-MkI and LCA-MkII are both single engine aircraft, hence the power of their engines to provide thrust to the aircraft and sustain their power-guzzling electric and electronic systems, particularly the radar, will always be critical.




There are two naval versions also with high landing gear as technology demonstrators. The naval version has to be much stronger than air force aircraft as every landing on the limited space of a carrier is like a crash landing, and the aircraft has to be stopped by one of the three onboard arrestor wires which latches on to a hook in the tail of the aircraft. If the attempt fails by chance, then the aircraft has to take off again, and that is why its engine(s) are kept on full power.

Mr Raju said that Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar was taking personal interest in the development of indigenous technologies and systems, including in the LCA, and HAL was working to speed up whatever it could do.

For one thing, it is proposing now to take full charge of the LCA development programme to become the single responsible agency. Right now, the design and development of the aircraft, engines, weapons package etc, are with DRDO and its Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA).

During a recent visit to HAL, this writer saw several young engineers, one of them trained in the UK. Like them, Mr Raju had joined HAL while young some 40 years back. He is as passionate now as he was perhaps then. He observed optimistically: We are taking steps in talent and technology to meet the timelines.

There is an emphasis on composite materials, for which Indian companies, both in public and private sectors, need to do a lot. Significantly, about half of the LCA is made of composite materials, which are lighter but stronger than the aircraft grade aluminum.

HAL has built seven LCA-MkI aircraft under LSP (Low Rate Series Production) and two under the SP (Series Production).

Significantly, LCA has passed several crucial tests in operating from tough summer and mountainous terrains as well as in firing missiles.
Kunal sir... this 1.5 term was based on the electronic upgradation of the aircraft only right?
how will they phase this.
I mean by 2020 we will have Tejas MK1 40 and Tejas MK2 in production so what can we assume they will start this upgradation immediately once MK is ready ?
 
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tejas warrior

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"The AESA radar will be supplied by Israel’s ELTA Systems, a subsidiary of Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI)."

But what happens to our indigenous development with name UTTAM ?
 

Kunal Biswas

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The first batch of MK2 and Tejas1P are meant to get ELTA AESA, Until Uttam clears all trails and tests ..
 

Kunal Biswas

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55kg Skyward nose-mounted IRST, both of which have been developed by the UK-based Selex Galileo subsidiary of the Italy-based Finmeccanica Group, and is being promoted in India by Data Patterns Pvt Ltd.
 

power_monger

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55kg Skyward nose-mounted IRST, both of which have been developed by the UK-based Selex Galileo subsidiary of the Italy-based Finmeccanica Group, and is being promoted in India by Data Patterns Pvt Ltd.
But IRST and AESA coupled with EW suite would increase tejas mk-1 weight by 100Kgs. That would mean huge increase in combat capabilities of MK-1. It can easily sacrifice its weapon weight by 100kgs and have this lethal capability. Only worry is whether this would have any effect on its aerodynamic properties? Even if it would,having these features will make it a deadly BVR fighter.
 
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Khagesh

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They will have a hard time trying to fix an IRST in the Mk-1. Does not seem to have enough space. The radome is simply too near the cockpit cabin.


What if they fit the sensorhead inside the canopy on top like the periscope view mirror of the Mig29 trainer, at the following position. This way the wiring can be minimal by putting the rest of the unit behind the pilot seat.
 

power_monger

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They will have a hard time trying to fix an IRST in the Mk-

What if they fit the sensorhead inside the canopy on top like the periscope view mirror of the Mig29 trainer, at the following position. This way the wiring can be minimal by putting the rest of the unit behind the pilot seat.
Wouldn't this blind pilot vision of the jet fighters attacking them from top?
 

Screambowl

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IAF serving test pilots have something else have to say, According to them Tejas MK1 is same or better than those Upgraded Mir-2000, I too believe that and many in the force serving believes it ..

I suggest you should stop this disinformation which used to be a top slogan in terrorist forum created by green members, This thread is a treasure pot, lurk into it for more information before knee jerking between it ..

============

Are you sancho ..
haha No, I am not Sancho, but he is quite an informed analyst.

MK1 still needs a lot of up-gradation to be an effective defender, which has been introduced in MK2.
 
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Kunal Biswas

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I am aware of his analysis, I suggest better go through thread and read carefully my previous post for better understanding ..

haha No, I am not Sancho, but he is quite an informed analyst.

MK1 still needs a lot of up-gradation to be an effective defender, which has been introduced in MK2.
 

Kunal Biswas

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I think according to report the weight goes till 50kgs, HAL must already decided the type of IRST and its placement on MK1p, Given only then they provided the data in the article ..

But IRST and AESA coupled with EW suite would increase tejas mk-1 weight by 100Kgs. That would mean huge increase in combat capabilities of MK-1. It can easily sacrifice its weapon weight by 100kgs and have this lethal capability. Only worry is whether this would have any effect on its aerodynamic properties? Even if it would,having these features will make it a deadly BVR fighter.
They will have a hard time trying to fix an IRST in the Mk-1. Does not seem to have enough space. The radome is simply too near the cockpit cabin.
 

Screambowl

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I am aware of his analysis, I suggest better go through thread and read carefully my previous post for better understanding ..
haha, was that a sarcastic comment.

Well, If you see the production of LCA MK.1 it is always in test mode with upgrades. Like you have a platform , a PSOC circuit board compatible with all new chips, software and upgrades which can be tested there.

I went through your posts, but if MK.1 was fully loaded then there was no need to go for MK.2 production. Mirage 2000 with an upgrade can be matched to MK.1 but MK.2 will surely be superior than that no doubt.

IAF want stealthier aircraft with 4.5 and 5 generation technology. Hence MK.2 and MK.3 is proposed. MK.1 is not as stealthy as per the requirements of IAF. The stealth has been though tested in LSP-6 only.
 

The enlightened

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IAF want stealthier aircraft:rofl: with 4.5 and 5 generation technology. Hence MK.2 and MK.3:crazy: is proposed. MK.1 is not as stealthy as per the requirements:hail: of IAF. The stealth has been though tested in LSP-6 only.:daru:
jabran analysis
Well, If you see the production of LCA MK.1 it is always in test mode with upgrades.
Its production only started with SP-1 being handed over now. How is it always in 'test mode'?
I went through your posts, but if MK.1 was fully loaded then there was no need to go for MK.2 production. Mirage 2000 with an upgrade can be matched to MK.1:blah: but MK.2 will surely be superior than that no doubt.
How do you know this? How do you know any of what you know about the Tejas at all? Have you even seen a Tejas from close-up let alone know the minutiae of its various subsystems? OTOH we have the word of its test pilot. Not a difficult choice here.
 

Screambowl

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jabran analysis

Its production only started with SP-1 being handed over now. How is it always in 'test mode'?

How do you know this? How do you know any of what you know about the Tejas at all? Have you even seen a Tejas from close-up let alone know the minutiae of its various subsystems? OTOH we have the word of its test pilot. Not a difficult choice here.
What took IAF so long to accept it then? I am not talking about Tejas, I am talking about Tejas MK1 and not MK2.
 

Kunal Biswas

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The MK1 RCS is three time smaller of a MIR-2000, I am not sure how much stealthier it can get into ..

According to open sources on net, MK2 is just upgrade interms of avionics and power-plant with increased fuel capacity ..

=============



I made this poster based on current available sources from official as well private ..

This is what meant to be in Production model as its already under way, According to MOD report 2015 ..

IAF want stealthier aircraft with 4.5 and 5 generation technology. Hence MK.2 and MK.3 is proposed. MK.1 is not as stealthy as per the requirements of IAF. The stealth has been though tested in LSP-6 only.
 

Screambowl

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The MK1 RCS is three time smaller of a MIR-2000, I am not sure how much stealthier it can get into ..

According to open sources on net, MK2 is just upgrade interms of avionics and power-plant with increased fuel capacity ..

=============



I made this poster based on current available sources from official as well private ..

This is what meant to be in Production model as its already under way, According to MOD report 2015 ..
MK1 is 13 meters
where as to to increase fuel capacity, install more avionics in the aft of cockpit and redesign the air intake, it made MK2 14.2 meters. 1 meter longer than Mk1. Changing the centre of gravity completely Hence Larger wing area ( not the span).

technologies which were tested on MK1 now have been loaded on MK2.

SP-1 to SP-40 are MK1
 

Kunal Biswas

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Yes, That information is public but it has nothing to do anything else more, I sure i am not misunderstood your point somewhere ?

Edit : Their is no redesign in intake, This has been cleared sometime back ..

MK1 is 13 meters, where as to to increase fuel capacity, install more avionics in the aft of cockpit and redesign the air intake, it made MK2 14.2 meters. 1 meter longer than Mk1. Changing the centre of gravity completely Hence Larger wing area ( not the span).

technologies which were tested on MK1 now have been loaded on MK2.SP-1 to SP-40 are MK1
 

Screambowl

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Yes, That information is public but it has nothing to do anything else more, I sure i am not misunderstood your point somewhere ?

Edit : Their is no redesign in intake, This has been cleared sometime back ..
while the twin internal air-intake ducts will be minimally enlarged to cater to the increased airflow requirements of the 98 kN thrust F414-GE-INS6 turbofan built by GE Aero Engines.
source: wiki


MK
2 air intakes

http://www.livefistdefence.com/2013/03/first-look-lca-mk2-air-intake-wind.html
 

Khagesh

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I think according to report the weight goes till 50kgs, HAL must already decided the type of IRST and its placement on MK1p, Given only then they provided the data in the article ..
The 100 kg the other poster said was on account of 55 kg of IRST and the 50 Kg by replacement of Ballast by the AESA.

So the LCA Tejas 1P will not have an IRST as such, as the HAL proposal right now exists. But since the GoI has given the go ahead to approach the IAF probably the IAF itself can ask for the IRST.

The articles reads as under (no IRST only AESA):
The current LCA-MkI version uses 210 kilos with ballast in the nose to stabilize the aircraft. This will be removed, and the AESA and EW suite weighing about 250 kilos will be added. The net weight gain will be of about 50 kilos.
 
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