ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[kumar2310s]

Once the programme gets going, HAL may manufacture some 200 aircraft for IAF and perhaps another 100 for the Navy..

How long it will take to deliver these 300 aircrafts to IAF and Navy? Will they be able to handle the current shortfall in inventory?

 

[Pulkit]

If i am not mistaking this was proposed by IAF not too long ago ..

MK1P is meant to be ready by 2018, MK2 will fly 2022 and their is long time for induction after many trails this same is not very long for MK1p ..

Kunal honestly tell me u r kidding.
Tejas MK2 by 2022 ?
If that's the case then after this ADA should be shut down along with DRDO.

Tejas MK1P also must not be delayed more than by 2017 and 2019 shud be for Tejas MK2 .
I have been reading 2018-19 but have no where read 2022.

 

[Pulkit]

I am not a expert like you guys.. but i think Mk1 configuration for FOC have been finalized and remaining 40 will be produced of same configuration.
If IAF try to change Mk1 FOC config to that of MK1.5, Parrikar will come hard on IAF.

Then they will be delaying Tejas MK2 to accomodate 1P as I doubt the numbers are gonna go up.
Thanks for calling me expert which I am not .lol
Manohar sir is gonna be hard at IAF for sure.....

 

[tejas warrior]

Kunal honestly tell me u r kidding.
Tejas MK2 by 2022 ?
If that's the case then after this ADA should be shut down along with DRDO.

Tejas MK1P also must not be delayed more than by 2017 and 2019 shud be for Tejas MK2 .
I have been reading 2018-19 but have no where read 2022.

They plan to hv first flight of Mk2 by 2018(earlier 2017) and after this 3 yrs of testing.
So production can not start before 2022 what Kunal mentioned.
As of now Mk2 is still on papers.

 

[Pulkit]

They plan to hv first flight of Mk2 by 2018(earlier 2017) and after this 3 yrs of testing.
So production can not start before 2022 what Kunal mentioned.
As of now Mk2 is still on papers.

If my memory serves me well.
The design phase is almost complete and they need to soon enter prototyping and testing stage.
If they do there job properly Tejas mk2 must enter production by 2019 beyond that i need to change my stance towards ada.

will fly 2022 for me means prototyping by 2022 and not entering mass production.
Even that will be a bit too late.

Now they have enuf funds to fast track this...If they dont then for me ADA is a disaster.

 

[sathya]

Mk1 40 by 2018
mk p 40 by 2020-1
mk 2 2021 onwards

Will mk 2 have extensive modifications that will req uire 6 years for production?

 

[Illusive]

Mk1 40 by 2018
mk p 40 by 2020-1
mk 2 2021 onwards

Will mk 2 have extensive modifications that will req uire 6 years for production?

I think its more like Mk1 20 and Mk1p 20

 

[Pulkit]

Mk1 40 by 2018
mk p 40 by 2020-1
mk 2 2021 onwards

Will mk 2 have extensive modifications that will req uire 6 years for production?

Kindly quote the source stating confirmed order of additional 40 Tejas in the form of Tejas MKP1?

Tejas with the latest spec can be easily operated till 2035 by the time entire world will enter gen 5 and some selected will be entering gen 6.
After that also due to advanced and upgradable avionics it can sustain even further after some upgradation .
This means it is fit to be used till 2050 if completed today.

 

[brational]

There is no news on mk2 engines. If the prototypes are ready by 2017-18 then one can expect induction by 20-21 (considering range of tests followed by FOC) otherwise forget Kunal's timeline.
Till now LCA is a tech demonstrator and probably the LCA will be used in maintaining, tweaking and upgrading foreign maals in IAF. Licensed production is the best way for HAL, IAF and MoD. Happies Endings.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Some old quotes from mine and other members, It talks about MK1P numbers and MK2 timelines and engines deals ..

@Pulkit, Thanks for correcting my mistakes time and time again, It helps improving my awareness ..

:: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

^^ From the above TOI report about now or never for LCA, the below statement of Parrikar, is what makes the most sense. HAL and DRDO, but mostly HAL, has to seriously start delivering, or GoI, will be forced to look at other options and there will be consequences for HAL. Upto 6 squadrons over the next 5 years, would mean, additional nos. of MK-1 or MK-1.5!!!!

" Incidentally, the original plan was that six squadrons each of MMRCA and Tejas would replace the existing 10 Mig-21 and four MiG-27 squadrons. Parrikar, on his part, said, "In the next four to five years, we can add about six LCA squadrons if we push HAL, which I am doing."

I was referring to an article
Focus Shifts to Tejas MK-2, Project all set to go Critical | idrw.org

First Flight:

While IAF wants first flight of Tejas MK-2 to take place by end of 2017, ADA can only do it by end of 2018 but both are working together to speed up the process and might agree to some level of compromise, since ADA is not building any Prototypes, but an IOC Standard Production aircraft Integration of all crucial components along with weapons and radar will lead to longer build time said sources. Tejas MK-1 and Tejas MK-2 will share less than 30 % of the components with each other and all agencies are working on selecting component suppliers


Engines

ADA along with GE have carried out Computer assessment of the F414-GE-INS6 engine with 98 kN of thrust in Tejas MK-2 aircraft and have concluded that no major changes in Air intakes are required. GE too has confirmed that the development of F414-GE-INS6 engines is progressing well and will be on schedule and GE engineers will be in India Into carry out mating of the engine with the aircraft when first aircraft is ready.

Kunal honestly tell me u r kidding.
Tejas MK2 by 2022 ?
If that's the case then after this ADA should be shut down along with DRDO.

Tejas MK1P also must not be delayed more than by 2017 and 2019 shud be for Tejas MK2 .
I have been reading 2018-19 but have no where read 2022.

There is no news on mk2 engines. If the prototypes are ready by 2017-18 then one can expect induction by 20-21 (considering range of tests followed by FOC) otherwise forget Kunal's timeline.
Till now LCA is a tech demonstrator and probably the LCA will be used in maintaining, tweaking and upgrading foreign maals in IAF. Licensed production is the best way for HAL, IAF and MoD. Happies Endings.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The interview is gold ..

Please enter a message with at least 30 characters.

Parrikar's interview to HT.

 

[Pulkit]

Some old quotes from mine and other members, It talks about MK1P numbers and MK2 timelines and engines deals ..

@Pulkit, Thanks for correcting my mistakes time and time again, It helps improving my awareness ..

Please tell me that we are getting Tejas MK2 before 2020.
Source for order of Tejas mk1p?

 

[The enlightened]

with the turning rates

There exist a concept known as 'jettison'.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

India’s Combat Aircraft Programmes: Learnings From Past
Great article by Saurav Jha

Deliveries of combat standard units of the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) Tejas MK-I light combat aircraft (LCA) began recently when the first ‘series production’ aircraft, SP-I, was formally handed over to the Indian Air force (IAF) on January 17, 2015 by HAL. Delays and all, SP-I marks the arrival of India’s first indigenous combat-capable fourth generation fighter that boasts the extensive use of carbon composites in the airframe, an indigenous quadruplex digital flight control system, indigenous mission computers and a modern glass cockpit enabling all weather day/night operations and the carriage of a range of precision guided weapons. Indeed while citing reasons for delays in the program, Defence Minister Manohar Parikkar acknowledged in Parliament that ab-initio development of high technology, initial non-availability of trained manpower in the country and a lack of infrastructure, including test facilities had played a role. Nevertheless, India’s umbrella Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) is now focusing on an improved Tejas MK-II with greater capability based on the IAF’s expanded requirements for its future ‘light fighter’ fleet.

However to make a success out of the MK-II program it is imperative that a modularized approach to building the Tejas MK-II be adopted with HAL assuming the role of a lead integrator while sourcing the modules from the private sector in India. This would be the glide path pursued for the Advanced Combat Aircraft Aircraft (AMCA) project as well which is a must to sustain all that has been achieved in terms of a combat jet development eco-system via the LCA program and avoid a redux of the situation India encountered after failing to support a follow on to the HAL HF-24 Marut, India’s first indigenously designed and produced fighter whose development began in the 1950s.

The second series production HAL Tejas MK-I is meanwhile getting ready and at least four units in all will be delivered to the IAF before the end of 2015 in order for it to form a’ mini-squadron’ in Bangalore itself. These aircraft are of course part of the initial 20 unit order for Tejas MK-Is and sport a configuration that received Initial Operational Clearance-2 (IOC-2) in December 2013. Once the full 20 unit order is executed, the IAF will operationalize a squadron at Sulur. At least a further 20 units will also be purchased by the IAF from HAL’s production line, though these will be of a configuration that has been accorded final operational clearance (FOC).

However FOC for the Tejas MK-I is expected to be achieved by late 2015. This, according to Dr K. Tamilmani, Director General (Aero),DRDO, is chiefly on account of delays in receiving two significant parts from an overseas vendor that will need to be certified for FOC acceptance. These are of course a bolt on inflight refuelling (IFR) probe and a new quartz nose cone radome, both of which are being procured from different divisions of UK’s Cobham. While the Tejas program was earlier expecting to receive the IFR probe by September 2014 and the quartz nose cone by November 2014, it seems that the probe and the first of a total three units of the new nose cone will arrive by March end. It is understood that IAF teams have made several visits to Cobham to lean on it to deliver these items faster and sources believe that the pressure has yielded results.

Even as the Tejas MK-I edges towards FOC, the focus of the Tejas program is shifting to the Tejas Mk-II which will have a new and more powerful engine in the form of General Electric’s (GE’s) 98 kilo newton generating F414-GE-INS6, 99 units of which have already been ordered. The F414-GE-INS6 replaces the current MK-I engine which is the F404-GE-IN20. The MK-II design, whose ‘inboard’ has already been frozen in terms of what sub-systems will feature where and how in its airframe, is being designed to achieve a 5 percent improvement in drag characteristics over the MK-I airframe. The MK-II will also feature an indigenously developed active electronically scanned array (AESA) fire control radar, currently under development by DRDO’s Electronics and Radar Development Establishment (LRDE) under Project Uttam. ‘Rooftop’ testing of this radar which has a range of 100 km is underway at the moment.

The MK-II is currently set to enter the detailed design and development phase for which a private vendor will be selected as a consultant via the standard L-I tendering route by a vendor selection committee. The selected vendor is expected to send around 100 personnel to join the ADA-HAL team working on creating the blueprints for the Tejas MK-II which will have some 25-30 percent commonality in parts with the MK-I. Now though the IAF wants the first flight of the prototype to happen by 2017, it is probably going to take place in 2018. A total of four test vehicles will be built and all of these will be of production standard. At least three of these at a minimum will have to be in airborne testing before the end of 2019 and FOC is likely to be achieved in another 3 years from then.

But to even prototype and then produce the MK-II within suitable timelines, a very different procedural and production approach will have to be adopted than what has been done for the MK-I or indeed for any other Indian military program before. For instance, HAL’s current practice of producing a significant fraction of the 8000 odd components that go into making the Tejas MK-I in house simply won’t do. Indeed with greater outsourcing to the domestic private sector, HAL itself forsees increasing the indigenous content of the MK-I in value terms from the current 65 to 80 percent in the next few years.

In the case of the MK-II, its design is being modularized with appropriate interfaces being defined in a way that the aircraft will be made up of some ten final macro modular parts that will be integrated to form its whole. The building of these modules will be outsourced to Indian private players who will of course have their own stream of vendors supplying components that will go into making any such module. HAL will thereby assume the role of a lead integrator for a clutch of private suppliers who will build these modular parts to specification. It would of course retain its role in instrumentation and flight testing before delivering the aircraft to the IAF.

However as Dr Tamilmani says, ‘flexibility in nominating domestic private vendors with the appropriate capability in a specific area rather than going through a cumbersome L-I tendering route will go a long way in expediting this program’. Indeed, even for the design and development phase a vendor assessment committee made up of experts both from within and without DRDO were used to narrow down private players who had the capability to actually add value to the same. In the aerospace sector, capability content is crucial even from a cost point of view, since it could well turn out that the ‘lowest bidder’ for a certain program having met minimum qualification criteria isn’t actually able to deliver the goods as it were. Targeted selection of vendors with proven capability for building these modularized parts is critical to the success of the program itself.

And realistically speaking there are only a few players in the private sector in India who can actually succeed in building these modules. Players such as Tata Advanced Systems Limited which builds a Sikorsky S-92 helicopter cabin every 4.5 days, fabricates C-130J empennages and is now graduating to build the ‘green aircraft’ for the Dornier 228 NG and PC-12 come to mind. As does Mahindra, with its efforts towards developing a 200 HP piston engine for the Rustom-2 UAV program. Larsen and Toubro, with its long involvement in domestic programs and an ability to fabricate wings for the Tejas is in the fray as well. Perhaps even smaller players such as Taneja Aerospace and Aviation Limited given their involvement in domestic programs will have a role to play. Attention may also turn to Reliance Aerospace with its aggressive inorganic and organic growth plans.

In addition to nominating vendors during the prototyping phase, it will also be important to stick with them when actual production begins. At that point, HAL should not be forced to again start a L-I tendering process for selecting module supplying vendors for series production. This feature of making a development partner re-bid for the production order once a system has fructified has been a ridiculous way to undermine the involvement of private players who often entail sunk costs to participate in various domestic R&D programs. Naturally waiving away the L-I process for the Mk-II program will require political approval at the highest level from the government.

Speeding up the production process for the Mk-II with better quality control will certainly be important because it is going to be ordered in much greater numbers than the Mk-I as is evidenced by the existing purchase of 99 GE F414 engines. Then there is also a minimum 56 unit order from the Indian Navy for the LCA Navy MK-II whose development is processing concurrently with the IAF’s HAL Tejas program. The IN incidentally has already put up money for a total of five LCA Navy prototypes NP-1 to NP-5, with two already flying. EADS has been roped in as a consultant for the design and development of the LCA Navy MK-II which is a different evolution of the baseline LCA design from the Tejas MK-II and is intended for carrier operations. Be that as it may, HAL is currently plugging for more orders for the Tejas MK-I itself before it invests the around Rs 1300 crores required to bump up Tejas Mk-I production rates to 16 per year from the current 4-8 by 2016-17. For as HAL points out, if it does start cranking out 16 Mk-Is a year, its Tejas line will fall idle for a period of 4 years before Mk-II production commences without new orders beyond the 40 currently specified. Preliminary discussions in the Ministry of Defence (MoD) are therefore underway on the feasibility of an improved MK-I with features such as a dual colour missile approach warning system (MAWS) that can increase its survivability, satisfy the IAF and keep the HAL line humming at a rate of 16 aircraft per year.


Source : http://swarajyamag.com/economy/indias-combat-aircraft-programmes-learnings-from-past/

Shared by @Archer

Please tell me that we are getting Tejas MK2 before 2020.
Source for order of Tejas mk1p?

 

[Pulkit]

India’s Combat Aircraft Programmes: Learnings From Past
Great article by Saurav Jha

Deliveries of combat standard units of the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) Tejas MK-I light combat aircraft (LCA) began recently when the first ‘series production’ aircraft, SP-I, was formally handed over to the Indian Air force (IAF) on January 17, 2015 by HAL. Delays and all, SP-I marks the arrival of India’s first indigenous combat-capable fourth generation fighter that boasts the extensive use of carbon composites in the airframe, an indigenous quadruplex digital flight control system, indigenous mission computers and a modern glass cockpit enabling all weather day/night operations and the carriage of a range of precision guided weapons. Indeed while citing reasons for delays in the program, Defence Minister Manohar Parikkar acknowledged in Parliament that ab-initio development of high technology, initial non-availability of trained manpower in the country and a lack of infrastructure, including test facilities had played a role. Nevertheless, India’s umbrella Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) is now focusing on an improved Tejas MK-II with greater capability based on the IAF’s expanded requirements for its future ‘light fighter’ fleet.

However to make a success out of the MK-II program it is imperative that a modularized approach to building the Tejas MK-II be adopted with HAL assuming the role of a lead integrator while sourcing the modules from the private sector in India. This would be the glide path pursued for the Advanced Combat Aircraft Aircraft (AMCA) project as well which is a must to sustain all that has been achieved in terms of a combat jet development eco-system via the LCA program and avoid a redux of the situation India encountered after failing to support a follow on to the HAL HF-24 Marut, India’s first indigenously designed and produced fighter whose development began in the 1950s.

The second series production HAL Tejas MK-I is meanwhile getting ready and at least four units in all will be delivered to the IAF before the end of 2015 in order for it to form a’ mini-squadron’ in Bangalore itself. These aircraft are of course part of the initial 20 unit order for Tejas MK-Is and sport a configuration that received Initial Operational Clearance-2 (IOC-2) in December 2013. Once the full 20 unit order is executed, the IAF will operationalize a squadron at Sulur. At least a further 20 units will also be purchased by the IAF from HAL’s production line, though these will be of a configuration that has been accorded final operational clearance (FOC).

However FOC for the Tejas MK-I is expected to be achieved by late 2015. This, according to Dr K. Tamilmani, Director General (Aero),DRDO, is chiefly on account of delays in receiving two significant parts from an overseas vendor that will need to be certified for FOC acceptance. These are of course a bolt on inflight refuelling (IFR) probe and a new quartz nose cone radome, both of which are being procured from different divisions of UK’s Cobham. While the Tejas program was earlier expecting to receive the IFR probe by September 2014 and the quartz nose cone by November 2014, it seems that the probe and the first of a total three units of the new nose cone will arrive by March end. It is understood that IAF teams have made several visits to Cobham to lean on it to deliver these items faster and sources believe that the pressure has yielded results.

Even as the Tejas MK-I edges towards FOC, the focus of the Tejas program is shifting to the Tejas Mk-II which will have a new and more powerful engine in the form of General Electric’s (GE’s) 98 kilo newton generating F414-GE-INS6, 99 units of which have already been ordered. The F414-GE-INS6 replaces the current MK-I engine which is the F404-GE-IN20. The MK-II design, whose ‘inboard’ has already been frozen in terms of what sub-systems will feature where and how in its airframe, is being designed to achieve a 5 percent improvement in drag characteristics over the MK-I airframe. The MK-II will also feature an indigenously developed active electronically scanned array (AESA) fire control radar, currently under development by DRDO’s Electronics and Radar Development Establishment (LRDE) under Project Uttam. ‘Rooftop’ testing of this radar which has a range of 100 km is underway at the moment.

The MK-II is currently set to enter the detailed design and development phase for which a private vendor will be selected as a consultant via the standard L-I tendering route by a vendor selection committee. The selected vendor is expected to send around 100 personnel to join the ADA-HAL team working on creating the blueprints for the Tejas MK-II which will have some 25-30 percent commonality in parts with the MK-I. Now though the IAF wants the first flight of the prototype to happen by 2017, it is probably going to take place in 2018. A total of four test vehicles will be built and all of these will be of production standard. At least three of these at a minimum will have to be in airborne testing before the end of 2019 and FOC is likely to be achieved in another 3 years from then.

But to even prototype and then produce the MK-II within suitable timelines, a very different procedural and production approach will have to be adopted than what has been done for the MK-I or indeed for any other Indian military program before. For instance, HAL’s current practice of producing a significant fraction of the 8000 odd components that go into making the Tejas MK-I in house simply won’t do. Indeed with greater outsourcing to the domestic private sector, HAL itself forsees increasing the indigenous content of the MK-I in value terms from the current 65 to 80 percent in the next few years.

In the case of the MK-II, its design is being modularized with appropriate interfaces being defined in a way that the aircraft will be made up of some ten final macro modular parts that will be integrated to form its whole. The building of these modules will be outsourced to Indian private players who will of course have their own stream of vendors supplying components that will go into making any such module. HAL will thereby assume the role of a lead integrator for a clutch of private suppliers who will build these modular parts to specification. It would of course retain its role in instrumentation and flight testing before delivering the aircraft to the IAF.

However as Dr Tamilmani says, ‘flexibility in nominating domestic private vendors with the appropriate capability in a specific area rather than going through a cumbersome L-I tendering route will go a long way in expediting this program’. Indeed, even for the design and development phase a vendor assessment committee made up of experts both from within and without DRDO were used to narrow down private players who had the capability to actually add value to the same. In the aerospace sector, capability content is crucial even from a cost point of view, since it could well turn out that the ‘lowest bidder’ for a certain program having met minimum qualification criteria isn’t actually able to deliver the goods as it were. Targeted selection of vendors with proven capability for building these modularized parts is critical to the success of the program itself.

And realistically speaking there are only a few players in the private sector in India who can actually succeed in building these modules. Players such as Tata Advanced Systems Limited which builds a Sikorsky S-92 helicopter cabin every 4.5 days, fabricates C-130J empennages and is now graduating to build the ‘green aircraft’ for the Dornier 228 NG and PC-12 come to mind. As does Mahindra, with its efforts towards developing a 200 HP piston engine for the Rustom-2 UAV program. Larsen and Toubro, with its long involvement in domestic programs and an ability to fabricate wings for the Tejas is in the fray as well. Perhaps even smaller players such as Taneja Aerospace and Aviation Limited given their involvement in domestic programs will have a role to play. Attention may also turn to Reliance Aerospace with its aggressive inorganic and organic growth plans.

In addition to nominating vendors during the prototyping phase, it will also be important to stick with them when actual production begins. At that point, HAL should not be forced to again start a L-I tendering process for selecting module supplying vendors for series production. This feature of making a development partner re-bid for the production order once a system has fructified has been a ridiculous way to undermine the involvement of private players who often entail sunk costs to participate in various domestic R&D programs. Naturally waiving away the L-I process for the Mk-II program will require political approval at the highest level from the government.

Speeding up the production process for the Mk-II with better quality control will certainly be important because it is going to be ordered in much greater numbers than the Mk-I as is evidenced by the existing purchase of 99 GE F414 engines. Then there is also a minimum 56 unit order from the Indian Navy for the LCA Navy MK-II whose development is processing concurrently with the IAF’s HAL Tejas program. The IN incidentally has already put up money for a total of five LCA Navy prototypes NP-1 to NP-5, with two already flying. EADS has been roped in as a consultant for the design and development of the LCA Navy MK-II which is a different evolution of the baseline LCA design from the Tejas MK-II and is intended for carrier operations. Be that as it may, HAL is currently plugging for more orders for the Tejas MK-I itself before it invests the around Rs 1300 crores required to bump up Tejas Mk-I production rates to 16 per year from the current 4-8 by 2016-17. For as HAL points out, if it does start cranking out 16 Mk-Is a year, its Tejas line will fall idle for a period of 4 years before Mk-II production commences without new orders beyond the 40 currently specified. Preliminary discussions in the Ministry of Defence (MoD) are therefore underway on the feasibility of an improved MK-I with features such as a dual colour missile approach warning system (MAWS) that can increase its survivability, satisfy the IAF and keep the HAL line humming at a rate of 16 aircraft per year.


Source : http://swarajyamag.com/economy/indias-combat-aircraft-programmes-learnings-from-past/

Shared by @Archer

I am very sad to say If this is true and we will really see Tejas MK2 in production by 2022 and first squad by 2025 then we must go ahead and buy more foreign Toys ....

After Tejas MK2 is over we must dissolve ADA.
We must not allow them to start any new project and get private sector to take there place.

HAL will never be building 16 per year 12 will be an highly optimistic figure.

If manohar parrikar wants to change something he must replace ADA with a private sector org and ask them to deliver or.....


I have been having full faith that we will be having Tejas MK2 is mass production by 2020 and 2022 we will first squad ready for action if thats a lie I do not know what to believe in and what not to.

If even now they are targetting 2022 then they are not gonna deliver till 2030 and then even IAF will be totally justified is refusing to buy any and looking for a foreign toy.


Starting to hate ADA Wishing could have fired each and every one of them..

*Fired:Not firing from job.

 

[kumar2310s]

Once Tejas 1 is flying in with IAF, what is the possibility or feasibility of exporting Tejas 1 to African countries or south American countries? Thereafter we can also export Tejas 1.5 to such countries as noted above. If we market it well, then HAL and other companies can produce Tejas 1.5 and also work on Tejas MK12 program.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

This is nothing new, It was explained well in Tejas MK2 thread many months ago by @Twinblade ..

^^ Lot of things are changed since this poster was discussed at Tejas MK2 thread, Where were you then ? ..

I am very sad to say If this is true and we will really see Tejas MK2 in production by 2022 and first squad by 2025 then we must go ahead and buy more foreign Toys ....

 

[tharun]

This is nothing new, It was explained well in Tejas MK2 thread many months ago by @Twinblade ..

^^ Lot of things are changed since this poster was discussed at Tejas MK2 thread, Where were you then ? ..

To replace Mig-21 we need to wait until 2025.
How many planes can HAL manufacture in a year?
16-panes a year 20 years to replace mig's means 2045.
Why can't hal outsource tejas to increase the output

 

[tejas warrior]

To replace Mig-21 we need to wait until 2025.
How many planes can HAL manufacture in a year?
16-panes a year 20 years to replace mig's means 2045.
Why can't hal outsource tejas to increase the output

Well as of now IAF is not happy with Mk1 and only 40 are confirmed numbers.

All depends on Mk2 development and performance. If it meets IAF expectations and IAF agree for large numbers, then a 2nd production line for Mk2 can be created.

 

[Pulkit]

This is nothing new, It was explained well in Tejas MK2 thread many months ago by @Kunal Biswas

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/EgDPrzQ.jpg[/IMG]

^^ Lot of things are changed since this poster was discussed at Tejas MK2 thread, Where were you then ? ..

I was here only and I had been through those threads but as I have shared any articles earlier also stating that the major work of designing is over and it should not take more than by 2019 to get the Tejas MK2 going.

To which my expectation was that by 2021 everything will be settled and we will be having Tejas MK2 for Combat.

I might have misunderstood it throughout but in none of the articles I ever read was 2022 date proposed to fly it.
I was expecting IOC FOC by 2018-2020 now that's not gonna happen.

I have full faith in the capability of tejas Mk1 and Mk2 will definitely be better .

But being worked in Aero I can understand that these things take time , a lot of time but I have also seen a private vendor to roll out / get the job done in half the time as estimated earlier when the user asked for it.

One aircraft was supposed to take first flight in 2016 end but when the user said they needed it early the company went against all odds and delivered it in March 2014 that was more than 2 year early was working in the same project since 2011.

Tejas Mk2 will take a lot from Mk1 but needs to be redesigned extensively structural wise due to change in engine and length and I believe that were almost ending design phase(Or have they not even started on it waiting for Tejas MK1 to get its FOC).

The major work that would be , to decide the thickness of the Panels ,layering of the sheets (Composite CFRP)must have been already automated for MK1 and same can be used for MK2.

Brackets ,stabilizers and clips which take maximum time being huge in numbers can be reused as there purpose and basic structure remains same.
Stringers and frames will also be more or less same. Few sections might need additional strength.


What ADA was left to do was stress and strain analysis after modifying the design .

Assembly designing is done in sections and there would have a large number of section ,Assemblies or subassemblies which will surely be reused in MK2.


There fore I fail to understand what is stopping them from Ramping up the process.

They might be needing additional manpower or technical skill which if they want is available in market if they wish to choose,


ADA is not being serious here.

The design cycle of a brand new aircraft is of 10-15 years but up gradation of one cannot be more than 1/5 of that that mean 3-5 years and here we can saying 10 years and given the history of ADA that's gonna go up and then IAF will come and say we do not need this and that but we want that bla bla bla.

I was having a sense why are they going for MK1P now I get it .

IAF has no trust in ADA even I have lost remaining faith it them hence getting upgraded MK1 technological wise.

Thanks @kunal biswas for being a eye opener here.
Though I will request you to share the source claiming 2022 as the year Tejas MK2 will fly and also the official news stating MK1P ordered as claimed by few on the forum here and else where.

I never never ever be against Tejas but ADA DRDO are surely killing it.