ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Jagdish58]

Dude? Seriously? What can the defence forces do if the domestic companies just wont deliver?

But I think P2prada has already answered that with respect to Rafale.


LCA mk.2 is yet to fly. I still dont think DRDO can be trusted with Indian National security


I said, PLAN is nowhere of a threat to IN, as the PLAAF and PLA is to IAF and IA respectively, right now because we are talking about Indian ocean here. They wont be the a threat for some time now. Thats why IAF and IA are being prioritised over IN now. Also, having hundred ships wont mean jack shit when it cant be used against the foe in question. Right now, PLAN cant sustain a offensive operation in Indian ocean. That is also why they are wanting a string of pearls in the first place, because of their vulnerablity in the Indian ocean!

Mate You are right if domestic company cannot provide you what you want and on time i have been critical with project timeline laps by Indian Defence PSU , Then Military has the liberty to float the request else where

My question is 20 Billion , is that wiser to spend that in FGFA and AMCA since they are generation ahead of rafale???

Let us keep LCA mk1 as a complete replacement of MIG-21 , 27 And jaguar let us not bring Mk2 into picture . Agreed IAF knows better than me on this

Have we given our Private industry a chance??? atleast on subsytems

 

[Mad Indian]

Then how does rafale which is lighter than F-15 and lower in engine thrust ,

has a higher range and pay load than F-15?
How come this rafale french cycle overtook the huge US aeroplane F-15?
Don't argue like a kid. learn something from sites devoted to aerodynamics rather than trusting lay posters here.Self acquired knowledge will save you from many blushes.

Now thats just crap. In the tech evaluations in Korea, Rafale beat F15 hands down http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/62407-why-rafale-big-mistake-15.html


Edit: You still dint answer me on the bet

If you are so confident on LCA, just give date...

 

[Mad Indian]

Mate You are right if domestic company cannot provide you what you want and on time i have been critical with project timeline laps by Indian Defence PSU , Then Military has the liberty to float the request else where

My question is 20 Billion , is that wiser to spend that in FGFA and AMCA since they are generation ahead of rafale???

Let us keep LCA mk1 as a complete replacement of MIG-21 , 27 And jaguar let us not bring Mk2 into picture . Agreed IAF knows better than me on this

Have we given our Private industry a chance??? atleast on subsytems

Do we have any other choice than Rafale, now that AMCA and FGFA in meaningful numbers wont be there till 2030? what will we do for those 15 years?

 

[p2prada]

True dat. They always do, dont they? I mean they always end up learning. I mean, I learnt

I still remember when that russian defence professional claimed you were more of a Russian fan boy than he himself was two years back, when you were supporting MKI against LCA.

They called you a Russian fan boy when you were supporting MKI and now a Rafale one when supporting Rafale. Some how, the probability that you are just being objective seems to be lost on every one here.

Yeah, you mean Vladimir. He loves Rafale.

You can say I am an IAF-fanboy. They are the ones who know best. I basically support their decisions, not HAL's or DRDO's or a foreign OEM's. Companies are just leeches. They say anything they want for the sake of profits. In the end it is the IAF (or IA or IN) that has to jump in the mud puddle.

That doesn't mean even they are above criticism, just that they are far more practical and objective than any civilian, even DRDO scientists are civilians. More so because they know stuff we don't. If people begin to understand that, things get a lot easier.

Over here, nobody is interested in knowing the reasons why IAF favors Rafale over LCA. They just blindly support LCA because DRDO writes sob stories in the media while the forces are not allowed to speak to the media. Going behind the scenes will give you an entirely different picture than what the media paints about DRDO. Defense journalism is very poor in India unlike in western countries where you can find journalists even in forums and are active. We have @halloweene here who is very active, and I think Vishnu Som in bharatrakshak who is not active. Ajai Shukla was on an anti-Arjun ramapage in BR only a decade ago. Don't know about other Indian journalists.

 

[Mad Indian]

Yeah, you mean Vladimir. He loves Rafale.

You can say I am an IAF-fanboy. They are the ones who know best. I basically support their decisions, not HAL's or DRDO's or a foreign OEM's. Companies are just leeches. They say anything they want for the sake of profits. In the end it is the IAF (or IA or IN) that has to jump in the mud puddle.

That doesn't mean even they are above criticism, just that they are far more practical and objective than any civilian, even DRDO scientists are civilians. More so because they know stuff we don't. If people begin to understand that, things get a lot easier.

Over here, nobody is interested in knowing the reasons why IAF favors Rafale over LCA. They just blindly support LCA because DRDO writes sob stories in the media while the forces are not allowed to speak to the media. Going behind the scenes will give you an entirely different picture than what the media paints about DRDO. Defense journalism is very poor in India unlike in western countries where you can find journalists even in forums and are active. We have @halloweene here who is very active, and I think Vishnu Som in bharatrakshak who is not active. Ajai Shukla was on an anti-Arjun ramapage in BR only a decade ago. Don't know about other Indian journalists.

Well, we will eventually have good journalists for that once we develop our economy more. Economy is a magical wand which solves almost all problems , except the ones cause by religious divide/religions!

If you do leave, please come and clarify the truth on bull claims now and then so that objective people can learn the truth once in a while. Anyway, good luck :thumb:.

 

[p2prada]

If you do leave, please come and clarify the truth on bull claims now and then so that objective people can learn the truth once in a while. Anyway, good luck :thumb:.

I will try and do that whenever possible. Cheers. If you haven't noticed I have already been ignoring LCA threads since a lot time.

 

[ersakthivel]

Now thats just crap. In the tech evaluations in Korea, Rafale beat F15 hands down http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/62407-why-rafale-big-mistake-15.html

i never isputed it, I just asked you to explain how rafale did it?

Edit: You still dint answer me on the bet

If you are so confident on LCA, just give date...

If you give a date for rafale deal right now, I will also try.

 

[ersakthivel]

I will try and do that whenever possible. Cheers. If you haven't noticed I have already been ignoring LCA threads since a lot time.

After being caught on every wrong claim you made, You were Unable to reply with any credible source info.

if that is called ignoring,,,,,,,,,,,,,!!!!!

When a moderator here asked you to back up your claim with source, you vengefully abused him and got banned.

 

[ersakthivel]

Well, we will eventually have good journalists for that once we develop our economy more. Economy is a magical wand which solves almost all problems , except the ones cause by religious divide/religions!

If you do leave, please come and clarify the truth on bull claims now and then so that objective people can learn the truth once in a while. Anyway, good luck :thumb:.

Well you are obviously mistaken, What is the relationship between economy and paid journos ranting endlessly ranting on Tejas air intake being flawed and airframe being draggy? It is quiet the reverse actually, The economy was booming in UOA I years and there was lot of money around.

That's why there were many BS stories trying to beat down tejas on behalf of vested interests. But once IOC-2 is over they all took a break hoping that people will forget all their BS. But still a few try.

I don't see the connection.

he is leaving , because most of his bull claims on tejas was roundly exposed. You are getting it the wrong way around.

I too can say I am busy with the Spanish class and rear my beautiful bottom in tejas thread once in a while, if caught with pants down , but what is the use bro?

The net is full of tejas trolls , of mind boggling variety. It was said that once ADA wanted to issue full page ad in a national news paper to bust their fake claims. But decided against it, knowing these are paid news guys who will work tirelessly for their masters.

Since IOC-2 is over these guys were quite for a while. But with a report of some delays FOC, they are putting up a grand act of I told you so,

never realizing that world over once IOC is over, production goes on full stream and fighters are inducted and then get FOC certified.

There are many crooks still ranting that teja air intake is still flawed !!!!!, after twenty years of flight testing!!!! What do you say about them?

many a maniacs here were ranting endlessly that due to this unresolvable airintake issue tejas AOA was stuck on 16 deg AOA and it was sub sonic in sea level, and stuck at mach 1.4 at service ceiling.

After ADA released AOA cleared as 24 deg , and speeds as super sonic at altitude they kept quite for a while. After that they are making out that both the speeds were achieved in dive!!!! How does one dive down from a height higher than service ceiling? Then what is the use of the term service ceiling?

However I read all of these BS for the sheer amusement value it provides and nothing else.

There are some bloody fools here who once claimed that Wing loading is a parameter related to Passenger aircraft!!!

But when I put out a table pointing out the ever decreasing wing loading of all the 4.5th gen fighters they were once again busy learning mandarin.

If those folks keep quiet, I to will keep quiet here. Otherwise I will put out most of their cock and bull claims with links and make them squirm here.

It is good to keep quiet after unbundling tons of lies, rather than making a virtue out of sheer necessity by claiming a well earned break for reading mandarin.

If people post BS I will rebut wit links , even if I am busy learning some Spanish!!!!

 

[ersakthivel]

Yeah, you mean Vladimir. He loves Rafale.

You can say I am an IAF-fanboy. They are the ones who know best. I basically support their decisions, not HAL's or DRDO's or a foreign OEM's. Companies are just leeches. They say anything they want for the sake of profits. In the end it is the IAF (or IA or IN) that has to jump in the mud puddle.

Tell me one other airforce in the world that evaluates a fighter with a category of weight less than 30 tons!!!! MAy be if navy does it its okay, because it may be some thing related to carrier or catapult limitations, why should an airforce impose a weight limit and no cost limit on an MMRCA tender?

That doesn't mean even they are above criticism, just that they are far more practical and objective than any civilian, even DRDO scientists are civilians. More so because they know stuff we don't. If people begin to understand that, things get a lot easier.

Above crirticism!!!! There were reports that one retired IAf top brass tried to curtail Akash numbers by supporting another foreign product.

And mid way through the MMRCA evaluation they have to back out of their lifecycle cost assessment method ,reason is if they apply this method top civilian leadership will faint at the mere mention of total out go through out the lifecycle of each MMRCA contender.

throwing out Dassault for incomplete bid submission and later mysteriously allowing them in.

Letting Gripen with no IOC, FOC , just one developmental model Gripen NG as MMRCA contender!!! and then bragging at strat post conference that they did a favour to SAAB by providing free pilot and testing service for their developmental fighter.

And blithely kept on assessing all the fighters till their financial bids expired in 2009. And finding out to their horror now that the costs have almost doubled!!!!


Most of their choices had and still have so many issues and problems all papered over under secrecy clause.
And they were dogged in their nationalistic duty of seeing that Tejas does not get a penny from their budget till 2006.

Couldn't do a sneaky shit about faulty ejection systems in Mig-21 which killed so may pilots as pointed out by Prof Prodyut Das.

Bought a world war two trainer with faulty nav attack system as DPSA and had their chestnuts pulled out of fire by some local tech guy's innovation.

Recently wrote off a fleet of 100 plus Mig-27s after a group captain was killed , why could not they work with HAL which has even received SCB tech for AL-31 to rectify the problem of much simpler mig series engines?

With falling from sky obsolete Migs grit their teeth to cut tejas mk1 order to just 40 stupidly comparing it to mig-21 making themselves laughing stocks of the world!!!

And the statement by a former air chief that they can build a MMRCA winner type 4.5th gen fighter within a decade from just their base repair depot expertise!!!! WHy could not they use it sort out the problems of ailing Mig-21s and Mig-29s?
.

Over here, nobody is interested in knowing the reasons why IAF favors Rafale over LCA

We all know that, less said the better,
It is the very noble cause of choosing a 4.5th gen fighter at 5th gen time frame and 5th gen cost and effectively making tejas mk2 a lab rat

. They just blindly support LCA because DRDO writes sob stories in the media while the forces are not allowed to speak to the media.

Care to point out the DRDO sob stories!!!!! AFAIK there were tons of planted fake stories on tejas by various MMRCA interests flooding the media for a decade. Well each tom, Dick and retired harry o services have said that tejas is Mig-21 ++, three legged cheetah and what not ?

Going behind the scenes will give you an entirely different picture than what the media paints about DRDO.

Going behind the scenes I can see lot of DDM guys leaking like elephant on tejas for a few more dollars!!!
One budhead ,who is writing these sob stories on behalf of vested interests in a national newspaper went on to say that tejas can not fly with out outside telemetry support!!!! that too after IOC-1!!!!

Most guys think that wing loading is free loading as they were indulging in this decade of tejas blasting!!!

Defense journalism is very poor in India unlike in western countries where you can find journalists even in forums and are active. We have @halloweene here who is very active, and I think Vishnu Som in bharatrakshak who is not active. Ajai Shukla was on an anti-Arjun ramapage in BR only a decade ago. Don't know about other Indian journalists.

I know all the shit about DDMs here and those butt hurt articles on vayu. When I have time in my hand I will compile all of them in a single post and have a blast.

Meanwhile in your hard earned mandarin learning breaks you can compile all the DRDO planted sob stories and rebut them.

 

[ersakthivel]

Do we have any other choice than Rafale, now that AMCA and FGFA in meaningful numbers wont be there till 2030? what will we do for those 15 years?

If we run gravy trains like MMRCA circus IAF will never reach meaningful numbers.

All we can do is to break the bank.

If you want to catch up with the numbers ask IAF to follow PLAF which is inducting domestic products in heap and flight testing two 5th gen fighter simultaneously, imperiously saying No to Russia for PAKFA JV even without requisite engine tech.

may be your Guru, learning mandarin here can help you out.

 

[ersakthivel]

Dude? Seriously? What can the defence forces do if the domestic companies just wont deliver?

But I think P2prada has already answered that with respect to Rafale.


LCA mk.2 is yet to fly. I still dont think DRDO can be trusted with Indian National security

There are lot of discordant voices on IAF's MMRCA evaluation criteria also. Does that mean you can't trust them with national security?
IAF said they will adapt a life cycle model and then admitted that they couldnot comprehend it in the stratpost video, rafale was thrown out for incomplete bid and later mysteriously came in.Also they let the financial bids to expire in 2009, taking all the sweet years to just to evaluate a fighter class, which has led to doubling of MMRCA cost.

I said, PLAN is nowhere of a threat to IN, as the PLAAF and PLA is to IAF and IA respectively, right now because we are talking about Indian ocean here. They wont be the a threat for some time now. Thats why IAF and IA are being prioritised over IN now. Also, having hundred ships wont mean jack shit when it cant be used against the foe in question. Right now, PLAN cant sustain a offensive operation in Indian ocean. That is also why they are wanting a string of pearls in the first place, because of their vulnerablity in the Indian ocean!

How many nuclear and non nuclear subs in PLA navy?
What will they do in the event of war?
How many we have?
Contrary to your thinking the iron curtain that can be thrown by Indian navy subs and ships across Malacca straits will bring Chinese economy to its knees and destroying its trade credibility and threatening its energy security.

This can be used as a strong counter to balance out any Chinese threat of border intrusion.And unlike in land where we are blessed with hostile neighbours , we have a well oiled strategic co operation in the Asian seas there for the taking with nations like US, japan, Australia ready to look at IN for co operation as a counter to Chinese naval aggression.
Just see how seriously china reacts to our Malabar exercise.

In fact it will far outweigh the impact on india imposed by any Himalayan intrusion china can make, since no gains there can be held by china in adverse weather conditions for a long time and its supply lines will be stretched far.
That is why the new govt is giving a high priority for IN.

 

[ersakthivel]

This is getting ridiculous! Stop answering the questions I have not even asked. I asked you if the US uses only Tomahawks for strike?

Cruise missiles, UCAVs, Brahmos firing SU-30 MKis are the best option for long range stand off strikes in Tibet. Then only rafale comes in, Queer thing is we are spending many times on a rafale than on the first mentioned more effective options!!!. Does rafale have any supersonic cruise missile like SU-30 MKI has as brahmos?

It will be able to carry out the strikes deep inside China(if the need be) AFTER the SEAD is done, something which Tejas CAN NEVER DO

What I said was since we can easily operate 4 tejas for one rafale comparing costs,

A combo of four tejas with right fuel and weapon load can cover seventy percent of rafale's range and rest can be covered by SU-30 MKI.

Most of the 9 ton weapon load and 3000 Km range for rafale don't apply in low penetration flight.

The effective indicator of the combat range is fuel fraction i.e the weigh of internal fuel on board/ Empty weight of the fighter . Hanging many a fuel tanks and weapons externally will add to phenomenal drag and high RCS in low level penetration flight. SO those 3000 Km ranges wont apply is what I think.

 

[ersakthivel]

Yes, lets invest on 300 LCA mk2s for imediate future when it is yet to fly

There wont be a gap of more than four or five years between local rafale production and Tejas mk2.
And we don't know when the rafale contract will be signed ,but we know production drawings have been distributed to workshops for tejas mk2.

 

[Jagdish58]

There wont be a gap of more than four or five years between local rafale production and Tejas mk2.
And we don't know when the rafale contract will be signed ,but we know production drawings have been distributed to workshops for tejas mk2.

But what about the GE-414 engine have we got delivery of first batch or still under contract negotiation & Even the AESA radar of DRDO what is the status

because both are critical for the MK2 project if it has to stick on timeline

 

[Mad Indian]

How many nuclear and non nuclear subs in PLA navy?
What will they do in the event of war?
How many we have?
Contrary to your thinking the iron curtain that can be thrown by Indian navy subs and ships across Malacca straits will bring Chinese economy to its knees and destroying its trade credibility and threatening its energy security.

This can be used as a strong counter to balance out any Chinese threat of border intrusion.And unlike in land where we are blessed with hostile neighbours , we have a well oiled strategic co operation in the Asian seas there for the taking with nations like US, japan, Australia ready to look at IN for co operation as a counter to Chinese naval aggression.
Just see how seriously china reacts to our Malabar exercise.

In fact it will far outweigh the impact on india imposed by any Himalayan intrusion china can make, since no gains there can be held by china in adverse weather conditions for a long time and its supply lines will be stretched far.
That is why the new govt is giving a high priority for IN.

None of which counter any of my points because I never claimed IN is worthless in Indian Ocean. I said PLAN is not a threat to IN in Indian ocean as of "now" . Seriously dude?

 

[Mad Indian]

If you give a date for rafale deal right now, I will also try.

OK, Rafale deal will be finalized before 2015 and we will have fully inducted Rafale before 2025. Your turn on Mk.2 first fight, SP, IOC, FOC dates. Go ahead, I dare you

 

[Mad Indian]

Well you are obviously mistaken, What is the relationship between economy and paid journos ranting endlessly ranting on Tejas air intake being flawed and airframe being draggy? It is quiet the reverse actually, The economy was booming in UOA I years and there was lot of money around.

Economic growth waaay different from an actual strong economy. Eg. US economic growth -> crap compared to Indian economic growth, while Indian economy --> utter crap compared to US economy

That's why there were many BS stories trying to beat down tejas on behalf of vested interests. But once IOC-2 is over they all took a break hoping that people will forget all their BS. But still a few try.

I don't see the connection.

he is leaving , because most of his bull claims on tejas was roundly exposed. You are getting it the wrong way around.

I too can say I am busy with the Spanish class and rear my beautiful bottom in tejas thread once in a while, if caught with pants down , but what is the use bro?

The net is full of tejas trolls , of mind boggling variety. It was said that once ADA wanted to issue full page ad in a national news paper to bust their fake claims. But decided against it, knowing these are paid news guys who will work tirelessly for their masters.

Since IOC-2 is over these guys were quite for a while. But with a report of some delays FOC, they are putting up a grand act of I told you so,

never realizing that world over once IOC is over, production goes on full stream and fighters are inducted and then get FOC certified.

There are many crooks still ranting that teja air intake is still flawed !!!!!, after twenty years of flight testing!!!! What do you say about them?

many a maniacs here were ranting endlessly that due to this unresolvable airintake issue tejas AOA was stuck on 16 deg AOA and it was sub sonic in sea level, and stuck at mach 1.4 at service ceiling.

After ADA released AOA cleared as 24 deg , and speeds as super sonic at altitude they kept quite for a while. After that they are making out that both the speeds were achieved in dive!!!! How does one dive down from a height higher than service ceiling? Then what is the use of the term service ceiling?

However I read all of these BS for the sheer amusement value it provides and nothing else.

There are some bloody fools here who once claimed that Wing loading is a parameter related to Passenger aircraft!!!

But when I put out a table pointing out the ever decreasing wing loading of all the 4.5th gen fighters they were once again busy learning mandarin.

If those folks keep quiet, I to will keep quiet here. Otherwise I will put out most of their cock and bull claims with links and make them squirm here.

It is good to keep quiet after unbundling tons of lies, rather than making a virtue out of sheer necessity by claiming a well earned break for reading mandarin.

If people post BS I will rebut wit links , even if I am busy learning some Spanish!!!!

Most of his claim turn out to be true months or years after his claims. May be you need some objectivity .

 

[ersakthivel]

Economic growth waaay different from an actual strong economy. Eg. US economic growth -> crap compared to Indian economic growth, while Indian economy --> utter crap compared to US economy


Most of his claim turn out to be true months or years after his claims. May be you need some objectivity .

Just recently he said that HAL was understating the cost of each tejas as 162 crores , because the price doesnot include the GE-404 engine cost. His claim was it is ADA which is going to pay for it. But just a few days later another member here posted a GE official link which specified that HAL is the entity that is going to pay for the engine,

He neither accepted his claim no countered it. He may no a lot of specs but he has no understanding of the aerodynamic principles (fluid dynamic analysis)reasoning behind the wing shape of tejas. Also what was the basic reasoning behind the kind of ASR(periodically updated!!) that was given to ADA by IAF

Mirage-2000 had low STR. and high ITR. For tail less delta fighters that have a TWR of around 1 , ITR is high and STR is a bit low. Good ITR is a measure of how low your wing loading parameter is. Tejas has a lower wing loading than Mirage-2000 and higher TWR than Mirage-2000. A potent combination that is bound to give it a very good ITR.

IT is the ITR which is very important in evading modern BVRs traveling at mach 4.

GO to the following link and read the post number 2076, to find out some real facts about aerodynamics and the guiding principles behind Tejas design,

If you want to know the truth there is not a single fighter in the entire IAF that has all the following tech in one platform,but can be found on all 4.5 the gen birds like tejas, rafale typhoon and gripen. In fact many MMRCA competitors don't have all these techs on their platform and in MLU all tejas fighters will get an ASEA. ALso only typhoon has a bigger radar dia than tejas.In effect only typhoon has any meaningful prospect of getting a better asea radar in MLUs than tejas.


1. Relaxed static stability implemented by 4 channel digital FLY by wire tech,
2. COmposite tech,
3. Clean confg radar reflection of less than 0.3 sq meter,
4 A reliable modern Engine tech

Saying such a fighter that is at the begining of the product lifecycle development is inferior to Mig-21 is downright disgusting

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/43717-ada-lca-tejas-iv-181.html
BUt he is foolishly fixated on top speed!!! Top speed is irrelevant in modern close combat. What is more important is the cornering speeds at which how high an ITR is pulled by a fighter with how much faster G onset rate.

Test pilots have repeatedly said that take offs in Tejas are sharper than mirage-2000. ANd it handles better than MIrage-2000 in this aspect. They have repeatedly said that in mk1 itself itself Tejas was atleast equal to the upgraded mirage-2000.

But supresing all these vital facts and going on an unrelenting drivel that it is worse than Mig-21(because of top speed!!) is not an error of judgement from your aerodynamic guru but simply a motivated campaign.

 

[Punya Pratap]

Dear Ersakthivel,

Much as i would love to see our country become self reliant and strong I have equally strong reservations regarding the mess we are in. Unlike others I do not doubt Tejas as a concept but the way it is managed. I believe that Tejas is a bench mark in its class but utterly mismanaged and in shambles. I blame DRDO, ADA, HAL and equal share to IAF but there is point when you ought to stop blaming and start performing. I hope GoI under PM Modi sorts out all defense PSU's FUNCTIONING and make them more result oriented with performance driven incentives. I am hopeful FDI will benefit to an extent but we need an equal and supporting policy for domestic private sector to encourage their contribution which does nt happen with news like these :

TAL Manufacturing Solutions fails to get duty sops on Sukhoi order | idrw.org

TAL ought to be given adequate support as making high end components for MKI's shall go a long way in ensuring that private companies step in to manufacturing. HAlf of your trouble is sorted when we have domestic LRU production line since they also contribute towards timely completion of aircraft production.

Secondly I would like to pose a question to all the naysayers :-- Please tell me why does IAF act like a reticent child when something MAJOR like repeated engine failures & display blank outs on front line MKI's happen. They go sniveling and begging to OEM's but act like step mothers to world class domestic product like the Arjuns?? The T-90 is night blind and hot as hell but the Generals would rather bake their soldiers and put them in line of fire but not persist with a domestic product.

The other question is why has'nt the GoI put its foot down and squarely told IAF to adopt the same practice it was willing to adopt towards the beginning phase of SU-30's which were nt MKI'ed for ten bloody years?? Every aircraft flying needed support and IAF HAS TO BE PUT IN LINE WITH THE WORLD WHERE THE BEST LIKE USAF & RuAF ARE PATIENTLY SUPPORTING PROBLEM CHILDREN LIKE JSF & FGFA?? No Fighter worth its salt was BORN MATURE and you have to nurture it like a child and you can check the history of all the best we have seen in Fighter jets history be it F-16's, Flankers or JSF's.

I suppose IAF / IA have different parameters when it comes to domestic products they know and accept with faults. They knew from beginning there were flaws in designs of Fulcrums and Flankers but even though Tejas has a perfect flight record they dither on assumptions like flawed air intake. I suggest you start induction of Tejas and it will sort out any and all minor flaws over a period of time the same Su-30's became MKI's with an engine that is far reliable than Al-31 and none of the blank outs reported. I wonder why IAF does not realise that even if Tejas does have any teething trouble IAF the trouble will be sorted faster than your third country OEM's and IAF wont have to beg but they certainly can yell and have it fixed instantaneously.

Besides shelling out tonnes of hard needed money over fake ToT deals like MKI's or T-90's ( I cant believe the cheek of Russians not even gving us something as basic as the Gun design and metal composition ad manufacturing designs) let us shell the same money in Tejas an I assure you we will have a product that shall surpass F-16's (same applies for Arjuns ) I have immense respect for IN and and sure it will surpass its elder brothers in arms and become a true Blue Navy while IAF and IA shall be milking cows for foreign OEM's

Food for thought for everyone to start thinking in terms of where we want to be 20 years down the line.... do you want us to be importers where we shell out money that we could employ for our much needed infrastructure development and not to forget becoming self reliant ensures that IAF & IA are nt supporting jobs in France or USA but in INDIA and maybe your kids might also benefit. Let us become exporters where the money we earn by selling our Fights/Tanks generate revenue for better roads, schools and nation. Stop hankering for foreign stuff for they always want us to be buyers and a buyer who is fooled endlessly to shell hell of a lot of money !!!