ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[ersakthivel]

By that logic F22 is worse than Tejas as Tejas record is flawless compared to F22 which crashed few times. So US should disband all its F 22s and order Tejas from India. Seriously dude?

This is how your logic comes across here. You have not actually answered @p2prada 's point on How Tejas cant do the stuff Rafale can!

his whole thread read from the start is an answer to all the questions raised by the guy who you just quoted,

Tell me which stuff rafale can do that can not be done by Nirbhay and brahmos enabled Su-30 MKI and the soon to be introduced FGFA?

What I mentioned about reliability was that the countries first modern 4.5th gen fighter program that was tasked with perfecting all the techs that are in rafale, or typhoon or gripen E like,
1. four channel digital fly by wire tech,
3. relaxed static stability airframe tech,
3.composites tech ,
4. open architecture avionics tech ,

has done so far done in text book fashion in even developmental flight test, which means that the end product is so reliable whose handling qualities are praised by every test pilot on it(all IAF guys)and rated more than the upgraded mirage-2000.

if a few convoluted guys keep saying that, it is less than mig-21 again and again just because it has lesser topspeeds , it doesn't mean a sh!t. Can these fools say the same about rafale since it too has a lower top speed than Mig-21?

You shouldnot get carried away by useless convoluted tech analysis sprouted by idiots, who will say that every thing depends upon top speeds,

 

[Mad Indian]

Tell me which stuff rafale can do that can not be done by Nirbhay and brahmos enabled Su-30 MKI and the soon to be introduced FGFA?

What I mentioned about reliability was that the countries first modern 4.5th gen fighter program that was tasked with perfecting all the techs that are in rafale, or typhoon or gripen E like,
1. four channel digital fly by wire tech,
3. relaxed static stability airframe tech,
3.composites tech ,
4. open architecture avionics tech ,

has done so far done in text book fashion in even developmental flight test, which means that the end product is so reliable whose handling qualities are praised by every test pilot on it(all IAF guys)and rated more than the upgraded mirage-2000.

if a few mad dogs bark that it is less than mig-21 again and again , it doesn't mean a shit.

Again you are repeating the same stuff you have been repeating since your first post here. You still have not shown how Rafale is inferior to Tejas (of even in the same league for that matter)!

And your logic that safety record is important is total non sense It does not mean jack shit if Tejas does not have a crash record if it is going to face the enemy and get obliterated .

Edit: My very first posts on LCAs are all defending it, when I still was a fan boy and dint know enough about LCA/DRDO. However, few objective learning can do magics in bringing me back to reality. Seriously, start an objective reasoning instead of the nationalistic one!

 

[ersakthivel]

ITs also no secret that people who talk about LCA and that crap DRDO have no clue as to what they are actually talking about and are all keyboard warriors

If some one calls your friend who quit DRDO as a crap unwilling to take a challenge how will you react? Will you accept it as fair?

If guys supporting tejas(these incluse IAF guys like Philip RajKUmar, Suneeth krishna, and Riaz Khokar, who have all flown hundreds of sorties on tejas and mirage-2000) are all key board warriors then who are the strategists of the nations?The guys who will import each and every fighter from abroad and fooling us that their Deep TOT agreement will help us build 5th gen AMCA perhaps? Why don't you ask them what these Deep TOTs in previous jaguar, Mig-21, SU-30 MKi deal did to indian indigenous TOT?

 

[ersakthivel]

Again you are repeating the same stuff you have been repeating since your first post here. You still have not shown how Rafale is inferior to Tejas (of even in the same league for that matter)!

And your logic that safety record is important is total non sense It does not mean jack shit if Tejas does not have a crash record if it is going to face the enemy and get obliterated .

Edit: My very first posts on LCAs are all defending it, when I still was a fan boy and dint know enough about LCA/DRDO. However, few objective learning can do magics in bringing me back to reality. Seriously, start an objective reasoning instead of the nationalistic one!

read the post-3078 in this page above just a few posts above.

You still dont know what is tejas, Nothing changes whether you support it or attack it.

 

[Pulkit]

True Very True....

ITs also no secret that people who talk about LCA and that crap DRDO have no clue as to what they are actually talking about and are all keyboard warriors

 

[ersakthivel]

Eg: Govt cancelled BAE light weight M777 Howitzer , now Army is banking on Bharat forge light weight howitzer

And who knows how it will bite us back in the ass . LIke how we had to rely on Israel for Kargil


Navy is not going to fight off two front war with China and PAK anyime soon, atleast not to the extend IA and IAF are going to. Their threat perception needs may be met by LCA alone. That is not the case with IAF and IA. Thats why fan boys should allow people who actually "know" the issue to handle it like defence professionals in IA and IAF

Most of the stuff IAF flies like Migs and SU-30 MKIs and T-90s, are having their own share of bites on services posterior . But billions are spent on them in periodical upgrades to mature them. then why that approach wont work in tejas, which is ready to take off from leh with meaningful combat load , where 4 of the 6 MMRCA contenders bite the dust.

 

[Mad Indian]

People who think that producing stuff here instead of importing will help the economy are actually complete idiots. They would be hard pressed to find why Countries with massive trade deficits like US are the most wealthy in the world.

The reason for restricting imports is not for the benefit of the economy but for protecting our strategic interest by making ourselves less dependant on the imports! Thats the reason indegenisation is most vital- not for producing jobs here, but for strategic autonomy! For instance, when you are importing, all you are paying the country is with worthless pieces of paper. So the country exporting to us have to import from us to have something in return for their products,which are worthy!

The reason why the Govt is worried about Chinese imports is not beause of their negative effect on the economy, but because it makes us dependant on their goods.

For example see how Russia being the exporter squirmed the entire EU into backing out of the ukraine crisis? Or even China which with its monopoly of exports over Rare earths is forcing Japan on finding alternates? This is also the reason we have to be wary of imported food, since we would be dependant on the imports and hence lose strategic autonomy. Thats why Food security is important and not because it is helping us ecnomically .

For example sake, if we take China, it is importing food for its needs(India s self sufficient in food). So If it imports food from India and is dependant on it for food, then China cant do jackshit against India since India supplies them their most basic resource. All their thousands of Fighters would be useless in intimidating our govt since we will hold them by their balls if we did have monopoly on their imports

And that is the reason why LCA having an american engine is actually a far worse indigenous aircraft than Rafale ever will be!
@p2prada Correct me if I am wrong here

 

[Mad Indian]

Most of the stuff IAF flies like Migs and SU-30 MKIs and T-90s, are having their own share of bites on services posterior . But billions are spent on them in periodical upgrades to mature them. then why that approach wont work in tejas, which is ready to take off from leh with meaningful combat load , where 4 of the 6 MMRCA contenders bite the dust.

And You are still saying LCA would do there when in fact aircrafts proven better than it have failed in Leh? What?

 

[ersakthivel]

Eg: Govt cancelled BAE light weight M777 Howitzer , now Army is banking on Bharat forge light weight howitzer

And who knows how it will bite us back in the ass . LIke how we had to rely on Israel for Kargil


Navy is not going to fight off two front war with China and PAK anyime soon, atleast not to the extend IA and IAF are going to. Their threat perception needs may be met by LCA alone. That is not the case with IAF and IA. Thats why fan boys should allow people who actually "know" the issue to handle it like defence professionals in IA and IAF

Year 2030, two front war breaks out on Himalyan border, China is fielding 20 Nuclear subs with ballistic nuclear weapons bearing missiles, and threatens france to stop the supply of critical items and mid life upgrades for rafale, what will happen?

Only US and russian can stand up to that level of threat, In 2030 french can not. And they will not.

But if you induct 300 to 400 tejas mk2 by then, IAF need not look nervous behind their shoulders, eventhough Tejas mk2 has a US engine, it is certain that by 2030 we will have an engine fit enough to replace it.

And mid life upgrades, spares, maintenance will all be toaatlly in our hands.

No one wants IAf to fight the war with only tejas. They still have their Su-30 MKis and FGFAs and Mirages, and mig-29s. But after giving a specific ASR which is met and exceeded in tejas mk2 it is stupid to restrict tejas mk2 to 84 and pump the money into rafale. Did french buy foreign fighters once their Mirage-2000 were old. Or did they developed rafale?

 

[ersakthivel]

And You are still saying LCA would do there when in fact aircrafts proven better than it have failed in Leh? What?

DO you think that fighters that failed to lift meaningful loads in LEH will do better than tejas in himalayan frontiers which met IAF ASR for LEH like conditions?

 

[Mad Indian]

If some one calls your friend who quit DRDO as a crap unwilling to take a challenge how will you react? Will you accept it as fair?

If guys supporting tejas(these incluse IAF guys like Philip RajKUmar, Suneeth krishna, and Riaz Khokar, who have all flown hundreds of sorties on tejas and mirage-2000) are all key board warriors then who are the strategists of the nations?The guys who will import each and every fighter from abroad and fooling us that their Deep TOT agreement will help us build 5th gen AMCA perhaps? Why don't you ask them what these Deep TOTs in previous jaguar, Mig-21, SU-30 MKi deal did to indian indigenous TOT?

Then who are the people who evaluated 6 different aircrafts and found that Rafale best suits their needs? Key board warriors? They are not professionals? So why is the govt standing with them? Do you mean to say that thousands of officers/bureaucrats have been bribed? Do you even think that is possible?

Ok I dare you! Can you give me a date on which LCA mk.2 prototype and SP will fly? Here is the bet, if it does fly by the date you predict it will, then I will offer complete apology to you and your DRDO/LCA fanboys. But if it fails you have to apologise for bullying @p2prada for over two years for you being wrong and him being right and driving him off the forum! Deal?

 

[Mad Indian]

DO you think that fighters that failed to lift meaningful loads in LEH will do better than tejas in himalayan frontiers which met IAF ASR for LEH like conditions?

But Rafale dint fail, did it? Seriously what are trying to prove here? If anything the fiasco at leh just proves why LCA is worthless and Rafale is needed

 

[Mad Indian]

Year 2030, two front war breaks out on Himalyan border, China is fielding 20 Nuclear subs with ballistic nuclear weapons bearing missiles, and threatens france to stop the supply of critical items and mid life upgrades for rafale, what will happen?

Only US and russian can stand up to that level of threat, In 2030 french can not. And they will not.

But if you induct 300 to 400 tejas mk2 by then, IAF need not look nervous behind their shoulders, eventhough Tejas mk2 has a US engine, it is certain that by 2030 we will have an engine fit enough to replace it.

And mid life upgrades, spares, maintenance will all be toaatlly in our hands.

No one wants IAf to fight the war with only tejas. They still have their Su-30 MKis and FGFAs and Mirages, and mig-29s. But after giving a specific ASR which is met and exceeded in tejas mk2 it is stupid to restrict tejas mk2 to 84 and pump the money into rafale. Did french buy foreign fighters once their Mirage-2000 were old. Or did they developed rafale?

There is no credible source to your claim that ASR has been met with Mk1. I am going with p2p on that

and also, IN wont be facing the PLAAN with just LCA, it will have Mig 29K and also N-MRCA(which I am pretty sure will not be LCA mk. 2). So another worthless point in whoever tried to bring LCA of IN to make IN look better .Also, I did forgot about IN's AMCA version

 

[ersakthivel]

People who think that producing stuff here instead of importing will help the economy are actually complete idiots. They would be hard pressed to find why Countries with massive trade deficits like US are the most wealthy in the world.

If only people world over lap up the rupee as good as dollar , I will completely support your view!!!!!

The reason for restricting imports is not for the benefit of the economy but for protecting our strategic interest by making ourselves less dependant on the imports! Thats the reason indegenisation is most vital- not for producing jobs here, but for strategic autonomy! For instance, when you are importing, all you are paying the country is with worthless pieces of paper. So the country exporting to us have to import from us to have something in return for their products,which are worthy!

Leaving our strategic eggs in french , russian nests forever will make us only a client state, And chinese will field a numerically superior number of optimum tech fighters to threaten our borders,

And even after 300 tejas , IAF will still be 70 percent imported fleet. SO why drag imports vs local stuff?

Why dont you ask the french to sell their missile and thermonuclear bomb tech?

The reason why the Govt is worried about Chinese imports is not beause of their negative effect on the economy, but because it makes us dependant on their goods.

The other most important reason is MANUFACTURING JOBS!!!!

For example see how Russia being the exporter squirmed the entire EU into backing out of the ukraine crisis? Or even China which with its monopoly of exports over Rare earths is forcing Japan on finding alternates? This is also the reason we have to be wary of imported food, since we would be dependant on the imports and hence lose strategic autonomy. Thats why Food security is important and not because it is helping us ecnomically .

Food and weapons will be used as strategic tools in future also. We are a hugely populous country with high level of engineering skilled people. If we fail to develop and field at least tier two weapon systems with that level of tech, we will be doomed. beacuse our forex reserves will go for a toss and rupee will be further weakened.

For example sake, if we take China, it is importing food for its needs(India s self sufficient in food). So If it imports food from India and is dependant on it for food, then China cant do jackshit against India since India supplies them their most basic resource. All their thousands of Fighters would be useless in intimidating our govt since we will hold them by their balls if we did have monopoly on their imports

All these basic resources supplied by india can be bought by china in other open markets.
By producing all their weapons systems and exporting them china will achieve an unparalleled strategic supremacy in world affairs , while we import every tom , dick and harry items for even our basic weapon needs. SO it is not going to tremble under the table if india stops its glorified raw material exports to china.

And that is the reason why LCA having an american engine is actually a far worse indigenous aircraft than Rafale ever will be!
@p2prada Correct me if I am wrong here

BY 2030 with enough fundings kaveri engine tech will be good enough to replace GE-414 on tejas mk2, which will never be the case with rafale, mig-21, 23, mirage and Su-30 MKI.
Already kaveri is close to 90 percent of the thrust level of GE-404 in tejas mk1.

@p2prada is not coming here in good time, despite the number of calls you make(this is the fourth time , if I am correct!!!), because I am here.

 

[ersakthivel]

There is no credible source to your claim that ASR has been met with Mk1. I am going with p2p on that

and also, IN wont be facing the PLAAN with just LCA, it will have Mig 29K and also N-MRCA(which I am pretty sure will not be LCA mk. 2). So another worthless point in whoever tried to bring LCA of IN to make IN look better .Also, I did forgot about IN's AMCA version

The initial ASR for tejas mk1 called for a top speed of mach 1.5, Now tejas mk1 does mach 1.6.

p2p is not coming here. Ask p2p Why IAF is spending huge on a 1.8 mach topspeed rafale when we have super duper 2 mach Mig-21?

Does that mean mig-21 will wipe out rafale fleet every time in close combat?

Considering the torrid quality of IAF mig-29 engines, It is no wonder that IN was the first service to put their 1000 crore seed money for tejas mk2 development.

 

[Mad Indian]

BY 2030 with enough fundings kaveri engine tech will be good enough to replace GE-414 on tejas mk2, which will never be the case with rafale, mig-21, 23, mirage and Su-30 MKI.
Already kaveri is close to 90 percent of the thrust level of GE-404 in tejas mk1.

By the same time frame, Rafale would have been fully absorbed in the IAF and will be fully manufactured here So the point of indegenisation is really moot. So the capability differance still stands!

@p2prada is not coming here in good time, despite the number of calls you make(this is the fourth time , if I am correct!!!), because I am here.

Nope, I mentioned him in the specific posts to see if I am right and if I am to be corrected!

 

[ersakthivel]

But Rafale dint fail, did it? Seriously what are trying to prove here? If anything the fiasco at leh just proves why LCA is worthless and Rafale is needed

rafale is an epic fail in the most critical areas namely NUMBERS and STRATEGIC AUTONOMY compared to tejas.

During the short kargil war it was the DRDO(hated to death by you and your p2p friend) with the help of Israelis who delivered the LGB capability to Mirage-2000 which hit the Mukund dalo supply camp of paki terrorists killing 500 of them and wiping out their base camp. French did not lift their little finger when this urgency came and india did not have enough LGB capacity.

In a hot himalayn two front border war 126 rafales can never replicate the role of 300 to 400 tejas mk2s with EW assets(costs will be the same) giving close air support to indian troops .

And no rafale will ever carry 9 ton weapon load 3000 km across Tibet which will be protected by dozens of AWACS, S-300s, S-400s and whose air space will be patrolled by 5th gen stealth J-20, J-31s.

SU-30 MKI upgraded to Super sukhoi standards can do every thing and more that can be done by rafale.SU-30 MKi will have the deadly hypersonic brahmos integrated with it.Both rafale and tejas mk2 have a bigger size radar dia than rafale,

What more you need for deep strikes in Tibet. SU-30 MKI can release this missile 100s of Km away from the target and BRAHMOS will home in with hyper sonic velocity.

For that we need Nirbhay, FGFA and AMCA in 2030

 

[Mad Indian]

And WTH with the enough funding non sense. Indian Govt has invested more money into LCA on average than any western country for its fighter program.

Its not the govt's/IAF's fault(it partly is for trusting a public dept in the first place to work, but thats another issue), if the the DRDO people sit around and do nothing!

 

[p2prada]

There is no credible source to your claim that ASR has been met with Mk1. I am going with p2p on that

ADA has officially declared that ASR was not met on Mk1.

 

[Mad Indian]

rafale is an epic fail in the most critical areas namely NUMBERS and STRATEGIC AUTONOMY compared to tejas.

In a hot himalayn two front border war 126 rafales can never replicate the role of 300 to 400 tejas mk2s with EW assets(costs will be the same) giving close air support to indian troops .

Thats called being a fan boy:thumb:

And no rafale will ever carry 9 ton weapon load 3000 km across Tibet which will be protected by dozens of AWACS, S-300s, S-400s and whose air space will be patrolled by 5th gen stealth J-20, J-31s.

Yes, but LCA can:thumb:

For that we need Nirbhay

Whats this fetish with Nirbhay/Cruise missles? You cant use cruise missile for a place where even a LGB or a dumb bomb will do. Does the US use tomahawks for all the bombing runs? Seriously? Do you all even hear yourselves?