ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
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Pulkit

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We dont say Tejas is the best we say its best in its class... he has been(who is right and neutral as per you) has been ridiculing Tejas for a very long time....
What he says abt DRDO most of us agree but when it comes to IA IN IAF his views and ours never match... we believe they are also responsible for all the ill happening but he thinks otherwise...
don't go by what ur friend says .... try urself...

we are always giving benefit of doubt but he is always rigid ... only tryin to proove his point..even if he has no point at all...


by the way anoth 200+ posts and he will be gone...


He calls it below Mig 21 only in interception. You have not explained why he is wrong...

Also, he is right in most of the things he says about DRDO from what I heard from my friend and so may be you should try thinking from a neutral perspective on it rather than from a hypernationalistic one. Just a suggestion
 

Mad Indian

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We dont say Tejas is the best we say its best in its class...
Because it is the only one it its class. Duh
he has been(who is right and neutral as per you) has been ridiculing Tejas for a very long time....
and rightly so. It still has not flown yet. Lets see if you can make a prediction on when it will be inducted into our air force:rolleyes:
What he says abt DRDO most of us agree but when it comes to IA IN IAF his views and ours never match... we believe they are also responsible for all the ill happening but he thinks otherwise...
don't go by what ur friend says .... try urself...
You are a moron if you think the customer should take a blame for a product if the manufacturer is not delivering it.
we are always giving benefit of doubt but he is always rigid ... only tryin to proove his point..even if he has no point at all...
He is rigid because he is right. When you claim 2+2=5 and he claims 2+2=4, you cant expect him to agree to your "benefit of doubtish " compromise of 2+2=4.5

by the way anoth 200+ posts and he will be gone...
And it will sad and bad for the forum as he was among the "very few" who actually knew what they wrote when it came to defence forces and equipments.
 

Pulkit

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Because it is the only one it its class. Duh
:fu: :taunt: :rofl: its is a Light multi role combat aircraft.... Multirole combat aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .... It is better than JF-17 Thunder which falls under the same category....
and rightly so. It still has not flown yet. Lets see if you can make a prediction on when it will be inducted into our air force:rolleyes:
Its has a impeccable flight history since the first test flight.... Induction is not far away ...with the lazy DRDO and non committed IAF will so its best to delay it to make way for foreign toys as dne in the past.... but its not far away hope u will stay here till then and not run away after hitting a number(he himself has said its just a numb though it would be grt)
You are a moron if you think the customer should take a blame for a product if the manufacturer is not delivering it.
Brilliant of you.... we are the payee Tax payers , defense forces are customer ,DRDO is a sales man.... So if you send you child to market and sales man tricks him/her and they end up buying bad whom will you blame...? here DRDO and Defense are doing only one thing blaming each other...DRDO to hide there failure to meet deadline and defense tryin to hide love for foreign brands....


+
i said nothing to be called a moron...... so you better mind your language....
He is rigid because he is right. When you claim 2+2=5 and he claims 2+2=4, you cant expect him to agree to your "benefit of doubtish " compromise of 2+2=4.5
its the other way round....

And it will sad and bad for the forum as he was among the "very few" who actually knew what they wrote when it came to defence forces and equipments.
no one wants no one to leave but it is his call.... he knew alot without any proof must be an insider....
 

Sea Eagle

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:fu: :taunt: :rofl: its is a Light multi role combat aircraft.... Multirole combat aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .... It is better than JF-17 Thunder which falls under the same category....
Wrong, you are comparing an operational aircraft with a non operational one. By the time IAF gets its two LCA squadron [40 aircrafts] PAF would be inducting JF-17 Block III.
Add to that some retired F-16s from Turkey and some Mirage 2000-9 from UAE.

Its has a impeccable flight history since the first test flight.... Induction is not far away ...with the lazy DRDO and non committed IAF will so its best to delay it to make way for foreign toys as dne in the past.... but its not far away hope u will stay here till then and not run away after hitting a number(he himself has said its just a numb though it would be grt)
How can you hope a Air Force to trust a defense organization which has failed several times to deliver equipments [That too with high foreign content] on time ?
 

Zebra

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Wrong, you are comparing an operational aircraft with a non operational one. By the time IAF gets its two LCA squadron [40 aircrafts] PAF would be inducting JF-17 Block III.
Add to that some retired F-16s from Turkey and some Mirage 2000-9 from UAE.



How can you hope a Air Force to trust a defense organization which has failed several times to deliver equipments [That too with high foreign content] on time ?
Can that super duper air force make public what they got in their testing and evaluation for MRCA? We know how each aircraft perform in Swiss MRCA, but no one knows what specs actually IAF got in MRCA's performance test and people here talk about that they know the inside news, but no one talk what IAF specs about each aircraft's performance in the test and evaluation.

I am talking about this....





Can we get something like it for Indian test results!
 

Mad Indian

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:fu: :taunt: :rofl: its is a Light multi role combat aircraft.... Multirole combat aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .... It is better than JF-17 Thunder which falls under the same category....
As an aspiring superpower, we will have a combat aircrcft better than the failed neighbor. Indian Supah Powah for the win:yey:

Its has a impeccable flight history since the first test flight.... Induction is not far away ...with the lazy DRDO and non committed IAF will so its best to delay it to make way for foreign toys as dne in the past.... but its not far away hope u will stay here till then and not run away after hitting a number(he himself has said its just a numb though it would be grt)
Are you man enough to commit a date, from a magical source of yours which gave you the info that it is great for IAF?
Brilliant of you.... we are the payee Tax payers , defense forces are customer ,DRDO is a sales man....
I dont want the pilots dead just because some hypernationlistic jingowallahs decided that its better to feed a lazy bitch like DRDO instead of buying the best equipment for them. I am sorry, I love my armed forces and my nation too much to be blinded by crap DRDO sells.
So if you send you child to market and sales man tricks him/her and they end up buying bad whom will you blame...? here DRDO and Defense are doing only one thing blaming each other...DRDO to hide there failure to meet deadline and defense tryin to hide love for foreign brands....
Where did you get that shit from? Seriously! IAF ordered LCA way back in 2000s and even after 14 yrs. DRDO has not delivered. Its not IAF's fault. making shitty comparisons make you look like an idiot. If you want to continue along that non sense, you can continue debating yourself .

The actual truth is more like Defence forces wanted something and the DRDO being DRDO(a typical government run institution) dint deliver it on time. So Defence forces moved on to the next available option for the best of the country, that too after giving so much time. Only hypernationalistic jingowallahs fail to see it.
i said nothing to be called a moron...... so you better mind your language....
I dint call you a moron either:lol:. I said you are a moron if you think that customer is to be blamed for
its the other way round....
For neutral readers, what he says is much more in tune with reality/truth. You and Shakthivel come across as fan boys :rolleyes:

PS: I used to support LCA too, when I was ignorant. Just three years of following the program and the input I got from my friend was enough to know about it.
 

Sea Eagle

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Can that super duper air force make public what they got in their testing and evaluation for MRCA? We know how each aircraft perform in Swiss MRCA, but no one knows what specs actually IAF got in MRCA's performance test and people here talk about that they know the inside news, but no one talk what IAF specs about each aircraft's performance in the test and evaluation.

I am talking about this....





Can we get something like it for Indian test results!
Why whine on an forum ?
Spend some money, file an RTI and get your answers. :dude:
 

ersakthivel

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he is simply wrong.
The knid of interception role Mig-21 specializes does not exist to day. In the post word war two era massed bombers fleet with huge lumbering bombers carpet bombing cities and strategic assets was the biggest threat faced by the nations.

With no worthwhile ground based missile system Mig-21 was designed as a fighter than climbs quickly and engage this lumbering fleet in high numbers . It was a simplistic design with even no radar when it was imported into india. And it had a very low range with very low fuel, because its role was not to do the role of true multi role long range fighter bombers of today.

It had to rely on ground based radars to find the bomber fleet location and designed with the intent of flyin in agile high speed flight profile to engage them.

But today due to advances in SAM tech these strategic bomber fleet is not the main threat. Fighter bombers like Mirage-2000, SU-30 MKI and F-16 do the job of hitting the target with long range stand off bombs fired from close to 100 Km distance away. They also have powerful radars to track and shoot down targets at 100 Km distance,

So the fast climbing small radar tracking range, low fuel load(very low range) interceptors like Mig21 are obsolete now.

tejas was designed for the same role as the much admired Mirage-2000 , which is a versatile multi role fighter bomber.

It was the only fighter that impressed IAF in kargil , as with high wing area structure it had the specs to precision bomb pak camps at kargil with huge impact.

because high wing area, low wing loading, high thrust to weight ration, Relaxed Static stability tail less delta airframe of Mirage-2000 was ideal for that.

That is what p2p extolled in the post cited by me.

tejas goes one step further on the above specs of mirage-2000 in every parameter.

If mirage-2000 has analogue fly by wire, tejas has 4 channel digital fly by wire,

If mirage-2000 has a thrust to weight ratio of 0.95 in half fuel load config, tejas has 1.07,

If mirage-2000 has a tail less delta relaxed Static Stability Airframe with small strakes for vortex generation, tejas has the same RSS fly by wire airframe with F-16 XL like compound or cranked delta for vortex generation,

Then how come tejas is inferior to Mig-2 in any role?

By the same token will he say that Mig-21 is superior to rafale in interception as rafale too has a top speed of mach 1.8(may be lower in hot indian weather conditions which bleed 10 percent of engine thrust and lift from wings)?

Answer is a flat no. because eventhough Nig-21 can start 30 seconds earlier than Tejas once in air its radars wont lock on to even a JF-17 at 100 Km range. If it has to face a JF-17 in interception , in a stand alone mode it will be the JF-17 which will track first and fire first and not Mig-21. So mig-21s are now good only when they are used in larger radar Su-30 MKI as we have seen in excercises with US.

But tejas like Mirage-2000 is a stand alone platform like gripen and raflae with radars bigger radar disc dia than all three of them.

And it will have 100 Km range Astra version which is being test fired from SU-30 MKI besides all other russian missiles availbale for Sukhoi. And in mk-2 ADA chief has said that tejas mk-2 will have the interface to fire meteor, the same primary weapon of rafale and gripen, but with 45 km trackin range Mig-21 can not use such llong range missiles.

So thats what I have been higlighting here. he is simply fooling folks with comparing useless topspeeds , which can not be sustained for more than a few minutes, because due to high drag the fighter will burn all its fuel and fall out of the sky. neither does it can be used to evade modern 4.5 mach BVRs. Also fighter can not undertake tighter turns at these high speeds the primary requirement to evade a missile.

I neither contest youe claim on DRDO nor approve it. What I said was that there are many labs some good, some average, some bad and some average, some not doing the work eventhough they can , some hampered by attrition and patchy fund allotments.

So we just can not say that other than missile division everything was bad. On the contrary my suspicion is the success of missile divission owes more to the non interference of armed forces and the high priority and regular funding available to them.

because there are no brokers peddlling MTCR breaking missiles with alluring bribes to higher civilian defence set up which includes the MOD, politiicans and top brass.

So the astra , tejas ,arjun and nirbhay team have to struggle and come up with world best on their debut to enter operational services against competition. That is not the case with missiles. For example when prithvi was first introduced it was a liquid motor missile with high CEP, meaning before launching it it has to be pumped with liquid propollent , which will take hours and easily detectable abd vulnerable at that time. It also had a very short range of 300 Km which meant it had to be deployed near border amplifying this vulnerability.

But since no one else was offering any competing product Army accepted this. And a production set up was created with all the inffra and priority funding. It led to world class missile development labs and infra which has now reached the level of sub launched ballistic missiles.

that is what i was saying.

Say if the army accepted tejas with R-60 missiles as mk-1 with an order of 40 odd, and let the further R-73 missile version as mk-2 and the now tejas mk-2 as mk-3(as swedes did with gripenA?b, C/D ,and noe E in the form of NG) ,

a production facility would have been set up in 2006 itself and work on present mk-1 and mk-2 would have gone on faster with better infra. But by insisting on FSED phase-2 project got only delayed. Same with Arjun, it started as a 105 mm gun 40 ton tank project. Army changer GSQR four times without giving any limited production order till mk-1 and delayed setting up of private sector firm participation and faster development.

example is the MRF facility to make rubber tracks for Arjun was set up and shut down after low order from Army. Then which private sector will guy come forward to sink in his money. But look at how TATAs are working with US heli makers Sirkosky.

By offering lame excuses and delaying phased product induction of DRDO products , what happens is many talented minds in DRDO labs get frustrated and switch jobs to lucrative shores , since there is no job satisfaction , as you and I, along with pretty much every one else(even defence journos) keep lampooning them forever.

This is what happened to fly by wire software team of tejas, with even marriage proposal not going their way, due to the poor prospects, what do one expect a talented engineer to do in DRDO lab.

And no incentive driven salary structure is adopted further compounding the woes. A product like tejas, Astra,arjun and Nirbhay save 100s of billions of dollars in cumulative forex over the years, Why not the govt announce some incentives on the completion of the products with intermediate goal based rewards? Then many indian professionals abroad will start coming back to this country.

There is no point in equating them with every other govt official who do the routine work of spending govt money.

Somehting Modi govt should focus on.
 
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ersakthivel

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No RTI possible. The clause in MMRCA contract clearly says that the performance parameters of all the MMRCA fighters must be hnded back to their makers in a sealed envelope and should not be leaked.You must ask the huge PR machinery of these makers who are planting ghost stories through out the media,"Why can't you make public the performance specs of your famed fighters in hot indian climate which saps ten percent of engine thrust and wing lift"
 

ersakthivel

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It will not be revealed to public.

No RTI possible. The clause in MMRCA contract clearly says that the performance parameters of all the MMRCA fighters must be hnded back to their makers in a sealed envelope and should not be leaked.You must ask the huge PR machinery of these makers who are planting ghost stories through out the media,"Why can't you make public the performance specs of your famed fighters in hot indian climate which saps ten percent of engine thrust and wing lift"
 

ersakthivel

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Pilots are dying from the incomplete products bought by the services and shifting goal posts set up services for local products coupled with patchy fundings by corrupt politcos.
 

ersakthivel

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As an aspiring superpower, we will have a combat aircrcft better than the failed neighbor. Indian Supah Powah for the win:yey:

The success in missile field can be replicated with all other fields if only services dont shift goal posts for local products ahile importing watered down substandard stuff from foreign makes like T-90 and Mig-21, jags
Are you man enough to commit a date, from a magical source of yours which gave you the info that it is great for IAF?
If the end user changes requirement every four years how do we commit date? For example if IAF asks

Dassault to fit thrust vectoring ,
a better stealth profile airframe,
and bigger radar on rafale next month,
then when will they induct Rafale?
I dont want the pilots dead just because some hypernationlistic jingowallahs decided that its better to feed a lazy bitch like DRDO instead of buying the best equipment for them. I am sorry, I love my armed forces and my nation too much to be blinded by crap DRDO sells.

PILOT DIES BECAUSE OF PISS POOR LOW ATMOSPHERIC FLYING PERFORMANCE OF mIG-21S IN INDIAN CONDITIONS ALONG WITH FAULTY EJECTION SEATS,None of that has anything to do with DRDO products. Why are mirage-2000 pilots safer than Mig pilots?
Where did you get that shit from? Seriously! IAF ordered LCA way back in 2000s and even after 14 yrs. DRDO has not delivered. Its not IAF's fault. making shitty comparisons make you look like an idiot. If you want to continue along that non sense, you can continue debating yourself .
.IAF did not set aside a rupee from its budget fro LCA from 1983 to 2004.
IAF was seriously sabotaging LAC from 1983 to 2004 and put a project management team in ADA only in 2006 (according to Air marshal Philip rajkumar("The tejas story"), of none other than IAF) and started asking for more than 250 changes and a new FSED phase-2. that was the reason for the delay.
The actual truth is more like Defence forces wanted something and the DRDO being DRDO(a typical government run institution) dint deliver it on time. So Defence forces moved on to the next available option for the best of the country, that too after giving so much time. Only hypernationalistic jingowallahs fail to see it.
What defence forces want comes out in headlines in the form of various scams. IF they are half as serious in inducting local stuff they would have done it decade ago. See what the chinese genaral says on Type -96 A,"It is not what we wanted, but we will induct it and continue to improve it".

But when it comes to foreign stuff like T-90, jaguar,Migs(with bad engines) their attitude is same as that of the chinese general.
I dint call you a moron either:lol:. I said you are a moron if you think that customer is to be blamed for


For neutral readers, what he says is much more in tune with reality/truth. You and Shakthivel come across as fan boys :rolleyes:
Any one with more than a goat's knowledge of aerodynamics will know he is bloody wrong. Thats why he is keeping quite for months.
PS: I used to support LCA too, when I was ignorant. Just three years of following the program and the input I got from my friend was enough to know about it.
My and your support doesnot count. In a debate people should argue with credible links and knowledge about the subject, personal preferences dont count.
Why dont you ask him to reply to my posting his quote on Mirage-2000 ,while comparing it to tejas?
Is it credible to say mirage-2000 can do the things even SU-30 MKi can't do and then turn back and lie tejas(which exceeds mirage-2000 in all those specs) as lower than Mig-21?
Then by that circular logic both Su-30 MKI and mirage-2000 are worse than Mig-21. Does he accepts that?
 

ersakthivel

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How come services trust russians who have delivered poor quality Mig-21s, 23s and T-90s which are not even improvable with foreign expert help?
 

ersakthivel

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Wrong, you are comparing an operational aircraft with a non operational one. By the time IAF gets its two LCA squadron [40 aircrafts] PAF would be inducting JF-17 Block III.
Add to that some retired F-16s from Turkey and some Mirage 2000-9 from UAE.

By the same logic F-35 nd FGFA are inferior to any fighter operating in IAF?
How can you hope a Air Force to trust a defense organization which has failed several times to deliver equipments [That too with high foreign content] on time ?
Does the srvices ask the same question to ruassians and europeans for the Mig-21, 23, T-90 , sea king agusta troubles?
The country depends on its security as much on the valour of services as that of the nuclear missile deterrent delivered by DRDO and BARC.
 

Pulkit

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I compared it intentionally only....
yes JF17 is operational but without any FOC or if I am correct even IOC has been been achieved...
Where as our testing of Tejas has been done for over an decade...
Yes they have failed to meet deadlines but not always the product is bad...

Wrong, you are comparing an operational aircraft with a non operational one. By the time IAF gets its two LCA squadron [40 aircrafts] PAF would be inducting JF-17 Block III.
Add to that some retired F-16s from Turkey and some Mirage 2000-9 from UAE.



How can you hope a Air Force to trust a defense organization which has failed several times to deliver equipments [That too with high foreign content] on time ?
 

Zebra

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I am afraid, kahi kisi ka mahal dekh ke fanboys apna zopda na jalade.

Now you know....why I whine.
 

Pulkit

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As an aspiring superpower, we will have a combat aircrcft better than the failed neighbor. Indian Supah Powah for the win:yey:
On the same lines As an aspiring superpower,we will have all combat aircraft from Foreign manufacturers..... Thats awesome.....
Regarding that failed state it is still our neighbour and our product is way superioir than theirs...
You will not like all the sorties to be taken by Sukhoi AMCA or FGFA.... you need Tejas for limited range operations which suites its multi role ability....


Are you man enough to commit a date, from a magical source of yours which gave you the info that it is great for IAF?
Date of what Tejas yes i can say by end of 2015 its will be in mass production ... as the latest update official/unofficial states that FOC has been delayed by only 3 months but taken history into accounbt 2015 end will be a safer date to commit.... I have no source apart from what is available Online WWW and a friend or two who have recently joined the forces....

And source for its ability is not required, it was built to be in service for +20 years its been delayed by a decade but with avionics updation and structural changes with improved radar it can meet all the requirements even today.... so what is your query????
I dont want the pilots dead just because some hypernationlistic jingowallahs decided that its better to feed a lazy bitch like DRDO instead of buying the best equipment for them. I am sorry, I love my armed forces and my nation too much to be blinded by crap DRDO sells.
DRDO is lazy you can call it wat eva u want but Tejas is a great product apart from all the sanctions and delays....
Best equipment No one knows hw did Rafale perform in Indian conditions.... and with MK2 as described on paper it will be no less than Rafale....
Refer to @ersakthivel post on this thread for wider explanation
Where did you get that shit from? Seriously! IAF ordered LCA way back in 2000s and even after 14 yrs. DRDO has not delivered. Its not IAF's fault. making shitty comparisons make you look like an idiot. If you want to continue along that non sense, you can continue debating yourself .
2000 wao that was news when were we hit by sanctions? when did the money crunch started? these are no excuses but reality .... Till 2006 IAF was not even lookin ginto Tejas after that only they started ....
I am no fan of DRDO for its deadlines meeting ability but IAF in this case showed no sign of self initiation to get a job done... which morally was there duty....
Design life cycle of an aircraft for a country having a strong base in 10-15 years that too with a huge chunck of money in hand we never had that case....

@ersakthivel :Can you share some insight on it ? though i have asked our friend here to go thru ur posts....
The actual truth is more like Defence forces wanted something and the DRDO being DRDO(a typical government run institution) dint deliver it on time. So Defence forces moved on to the next available option for the best of the country, that too after giving so much time. Only hypernationalistic jingowallahs fail to see it.
Yeah who changes the specs requirements who is delaying trials who wants new changes each and every time.... ?
I dint call you a moron either:lol:. I said you are a moron if you think that customer is to be blamed for
That the problem instead of being a consumer they want to be called as a customer .... yes in this case customer needs to be blamed.... some accountability must be set on the part of IAF aswell....
For neutral readers, what he says is much more in tune with reality/truth. You and Shakthivel come across as fan boys :rolleyes:

PS: I used to support LCA too, when I was ignorant. Just three years of following the program and the input I got from my friend was enough to know about it.
Fingers crossed you will support LCA again...
 
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