ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
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syncro

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There are different prices for a plane:

- cost of production
- cost as weapon system
- real cost
- etc...

Include/exclude the cost of development and production of simulators, weapons integration. etc...

For western warplanes the cost for the integration of a single weapon mean 200-400 milions dollars and when there are dozens of weapons the billions start fly

It all depends on what you mean by price :)
 
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Santu

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There are different prices for a plane:

- cost of production
- cost as weapon system
- real cost
- etc...

Include/exclude the cost of development and production of simulators, weapons integration. etc...

For western warplanes the cost for the integration of a single weapon mean 200-400 milions dollars and when there are dozens of weapons the billions start fly

It all depends on what you mean by price :)
What are all types of the cost, EF-2000's 225M euro price tag includes?? :)
 

p2prada

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What are all types of the cost, EF-2000's 225M euro price tag includes?? :)
R&D of the aircraft, setting up of the production line, manufacturing the avionics, setting up of infrastructure, paying salaries etc.
 

p2prada

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There are different prices for a plane:

- cost of production
- cost as weapon system
- real cost
- etc...

Include/exclude the cost of development and production of simulators, weapons integration. etc...

For western warplanes the cost for the integration of a single weapon mean 200-400 milions dollars and when there are dozens of weapons the billions start fly

It all depends on what you mean by price :)
The Italians purchased the EF in the beginning at $80 Million/jet. That should have grown to well above $120 Million.

Europe messed up by building 4 different assembly lines. Jobs became more important than saving money.
 

syncro

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Yes, there 4 assembly line.. one in each of 4 countries of consortium.. is not only for the jobs, but for prestige, political, technical and expertise reasons.

The EF 2000 (like the others shared project as the Tornado) are different for each country and also the updates are national (and not shared).

Also the goals are different... UK now are only the EF2000 (and few short range F-35B in future) and they want a true multirole and nuke capable, Germay for the fight-bomber role retain the Tornados (also nuke capable)... for Italy the fight-bomber role is cover in future by F-35A (that cover native the role for share nukes)... so the EF2000 multirole for Germay and Italy has a low priority and Spain have other problems.

Germany EF 2000 are lesser performant... no Pirate and towed decoys... actual Italian and Germany EF 2000s T2 and T3a cannot mount the conformal tanks... etc etc...
 

p2prada

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Yes, there 4 assembly line.. one in each of 4 countries of consortium.. is not only for the jobs, but for prestige, political, technical and expertise reasons.

The EF 2000 (like the others shared project as the Tornado) are different for each country and also the updates are national (and not shared).
That's what makes it so expensive than if compared to the F-35 or even Rafale where there is only one production line today.
 

ersakthivel

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Tejas programme began in 1985, about Rs 7,000 crore have been spent on the Tejas Mark I, which obtained Initial Operational Clearance in December, allowing regular IAF pilots to fly it. By the end of this year, when it obtains Final Operational Clearance, it would have consumed a budget of Rs 7,965 crore.

Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd, which manufactures the Tejas, has quoted Rs 162 crore per fighter as its latest price. Amortising the entire development cost on the envisioned 344 fighters (IAF: 294; Navy: 50), the Tejas would cost Rs 209 crore ($33.5 million) per fighter.

In comparison, the IAF's Mirage 2000 fighters, which were bought in the 1980s, are currently being upgraded for $45 million per aircraft. IAF pilots that test-fly the Tejas Mark I find it qualitatively superior to the Mirage 2000.

The heavier Sukhoi-30MKI costs more than Rs 400 crore ($65 million) each. And the Rafale, which is currently being negotiated with Dassault, is pegged at Rs 750-850 crore ($120-140 million) per fighter.

Source : Broadsword: LCA

===================

@ersakthivel can shed some light in ..
kunal there are lots of people repeatedly trying to make it look as if tejas development is expensive as gripen or any other fighter program,

crucial differences are, other fighter makers had years of experience in gradually making three generation of fighter planes for many decades right fro design to producing them in thousands all with their own design skills, In india tejas program is responsible for catapulting india from zero gen to 4.5th gen all in one go, the main components of LCA program are,

1. fly by wire sftware,
2. perfecting RSS airframe
3.all glass cockpit,
4. Avionics and mission computers,
5. composites,

1.fly by wire tech,

According to ADA the first 500 test flights of LCA which took five or more years were used to validate control laws for fly by wire software, which will be common database to all future indian fighter programs and Aura program,

2.RSS airframe,
same here, the design principle perfected for tejas will serve as common database for AMCA and future RSS platforms,

3.All glass cockpits, 4.avionics and mission computers,
Su-30 MKi and many jaguar upgrades extensively rely on the knowledge base generated in tejas avionics program,

5.composites,
Same thing. AMCA Su-30 MI and Aura will all use the same composite tech deveopled for tejas, infact even the tech we will get for the quartz radome of tejas will be commonly used across all future fighter programs,

but the oversea fighter makers had already developed pieces of these experience in previous fighter programs and evolved them further, Still their costs are high, mainly due to higher living cost abroad.

But india has zero competence in all the above five sectors and thanks to one program created by ADA , now we have world class techs in all these strategically critical areas,

if we divide the cost of the entire tejas program by the benefits received by future ADA developed AMCA and Su-30 MKi, jag upgrades and Aura cost is actually a fraction of what is stated here.

thank to tejas AMCA does not have to undertake 500 flights spanning over five years to do the basic leg work of its control laws for fly by wire software tech,

AMCA will have ready availability of composites and basic avionicvs along with mission computers weapon stores software, quartz radome, oborg, refueling probe tech,,,,,,

Also many of he basic principles to be validated for RSS airframe of AMCA are already completed in tejas program after design, evolution and validation,

Only japan's 5th gen fighter project is trying to achieve a quantum jump in one go like we did for tejas.

Also the kaveri is going into Aura. And future k-10 's development time will be significantly less thanks to versions upto k-9.

if at all IAf has cleared stealth MCA which was to use the same cranked arrow delta of tejas wing form,with lesser specs in 2005 ,

k-9 would have nicely fit into it, but we lost the opportunity in the last decade by delaying the ASR release of AMCA by 10 years.


And even if we are ready to pay tens of billions of dollars we can not buy the man power which created all these stuff upto these levels,
 
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p2prada

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can I get a link for your super dooper claim?
F404-GE-IN20
The Indian ADA agency awarded General Electric a $105 million contract in February 2004 for development engineering and production of 17 F404-GE-IN20 engines.
The following batch of 24 engines was also paid for by ADA.

The current batch of 99 engines is also by ADA.

GE F414 Engines Selected to Power India Light Combat Aircraft Program | Press Release | GE Aviation
India's Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) has selected 99 F414 GE fighter jet engines to power the Mk II version of the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) for the Indian Air Force.
So what makes you think HAL will pay for it again? It's just common sense.
 
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@Santu its mk1 thread so not mk2.
.
tejas have ge f404 engine not f414.
not I was talking about rafale. And don't you know difference between 27 million and 30-35 million ? And about believing drdo, its not iaf who is developing fighter, so what they quote about development is not that true compared to quote by drdo..... The price I quoted was tabled by antony.
.
and iaf won't gonna change the specs as they already had asked for a best specs that can be in light fighter which make it comparable to rafale.
 
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Apollyon

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Projected R&D cost of Tejas Mk-1 is ~Rs 8000 Crore.
Unit cost of Mk-1 pegged by HAL is Rs 162 Crore.
40 Mk-1 are to be produced which makes the total program cost to be Rs 8000 crore + 40*(Rs 162 crore) + Cost of 40 GE F-404. So one Tejas Mk-1 will cost Rs 362 crore or $62 million (in today's Dollar) plus the cost of Engine.

:scared1:
 

Saran

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Problem of LCA Tejas is not the price. The whole project cost is dirt cheap, on international standards. Even trainer projects in countries are costlier than LCA.

Technology is good too. I understand its first national aviation project which has near-what succeeded. The fighter is good, nimble with better technologies and loads of scope for future improvements. No Doubt. !!!

Problem is -- where is it? Will HAL ever produce it?

The claims were quite tall ---- 8 aircraft per year initially and then 16 later. No one has seen even one delivered so far. Mrach deadline came and gone, June deadline came and gone, year is coming to and end. Now reports are coming that 8 aircrafts will take 2-3 years.

Someone has to be made responsible now. If it was a private company, many heads would have rolled but HAL being HAL, the disappointments galore. HAL behaves as if it doesn't matter to them, they are immune to repercussions. It has no institutional integrity and no worry on credibility. Pathetic !!!

Wonder is, why private sector is not being asked by MoD to open a parallel line production of LCA - both AF and Navy version. India needs lot many of these aircraft and HAL cannot keep its word so give private companies a chance. They will have to come up, whether individually or in consortium. Someone, whether MoD, MoF, PMO or IAF, anyone will have to take on HAL and destroy its complacency.
 

Santu

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@Santu its mk1 thread so not mk2.
.
tejas have ge f404 engine not f414.
not I was talking about rafale. And don't you know difference between 27 million and 30-35 million ? And about believing drdo, its not iaf who is developing fighter, so what they quote about development is not that true compared to quote by drdo..... The price I quoted was tabled by antony.
.
and iaf won't gonna change the specs as they already had asked for a best specs that can be in light fighter which make it comparable to rafale.
If you dont include Mk-2 in development cost so far, Mk-1 will be much costlier.. 40 aircrafts and approximately 3 billion$ development cost ,price of the engines will double the cost.. Assuming all the learning of Mk-1 went into MK-2 and IAF will order 100+ Mk-2 will make tejas cheaper compared other fighters and this is the case..... So including development cost only to Mk-1 will not make it cheap..
In the end IAF will fly the aircraft.. They fight war for us.. They sacrifice life for the country..

HAL and ADA thought same thing about change of specs for 20 yrs and they ended up re-designing the aircraft..
 
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p2prada

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those engines is used in prototypes of naval mk1, mk1, trainer,
Anyway it wouldn't matter. The aircraft will cost lesser once the entire squadron is delivered. And lead in costs should be lesser for Mk2 but costs of new avionics will jack it up again.
 

Apollyon

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If you dont include Mk-2 in development cost so far, Mk-1 will be much costlier.. 40 aircrafts and approximately 3 billion$ development cost
Around Rs 7000 crore have been spent on Tejas Mk1 development since 1985 and projected final development cost is Rs 7965 crore (till FOC). In addition to this Rs 2432 crore is being allocated for Tejas Mk2 development and Rs 3650 crore for Naval varient.
 

Santu

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Around Rs 7000 crore have been spent on Tejas Mk1 development since 1985 and projected final development cost is Rs 7965 crore (till FOC). In addition to this Rs 2432 crore is being allocated for Tejas Mk2 development and Rs 3650 crore for Naval varient.
In one of the link provide in previous page , it was mentioned that program cost already crossed 4 billion mark.. Sorry if I am wrong :)
 
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Around Rs 7000 crore have been spent on Tejas Mk1 development since 1985 and projected final development cost is Rs 7965 crore (till FOC). In addition to this Rs 2432 crore is being allocated for Tejas Mk2 development and Rs 3650 crore for Naval varient.
7900 crore doesn't means 3 billion. 3 billion means 18000crore. SO NOT 1.5 BILLION IS SPENT ON DEVELOPMENT OF TEJAS MK1
 
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