ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[kuku]

Bad is that as of now IAF plans calls for using LCA-T as a pure trainer.

??
Why do you think the weapons are being integrated, and LCA are supposed to replace two active MiG-21 squadrons, squadrons that are war fighting assets for the Indian Air Force.

 

[Rahul Singh]

??
Why do you think the weapons are being integrated, and LCA are supposed to replace two active MiG-21 squadrons, squadrons that are war fighting assets for the Indian Air Force.

Aauch! Read my post again, i have highlighted something for you.

Bad is that as of now IAF plans calls for using LCA-T as a pure trainer.

 

[RPK]

what is the RCS for the LCA?

 

[F-14]

but i think that the LCA Tranier should be Combat capable

 

[neo29]

this article on livefist is about EF200 engine for the lca

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/01/typhoon-tour-part-1-eurojet-heats-up.html

 

[Rahul Singh]

but i think that the LCA Tranier should be Combat capable

Indeed it is. After all, all fighter(type) conversion training is carried out on two seater variant of a particular type of fighter jet. Now let me clarify my words " IAF plans calls for using LCA-T for training fighter pilots who will fly LCA single seater fighter jets but have no plans as of now to use LCA-T(two seater) in combat.

 

[ZOOM]

But Rahul, isn't there is chance of using the same for weapon testing. Even thaugh it is about to use as a pure trainer, but looking at our fleet depletion, don't you think IAF would be hard pressed to use it in a operational role. Because either way, trainers will going to form at least one squdrans and hence their operational use cannot be ruled out.

 

[Rahul Singh]

But Rahul, isn't there is chance of using the same for weapon testing. Even thaugh it is about to use as a pure trainer, but looking at our fleet depletion, don't you think IAF would be hard pressed to use it in a operational role. Because either way, trainers will going to form at least one squdrans and hence their operational use cannot be ruled out.

ZOOM. I think my words were not clear enough. When i said pure trainer then it meant for fighter conversion training which includes everything from understanding flight characteristics to weapon dropping and shooting. Only difference will be that IAF will not use LCA-T during combat(as per present plans).

Presently,as reported IAF is buying 40 LCA MK-1 or two squadrons of LCA MK-1. Typically an IAF squadron consists of 18 fighter version + 2 fully combat capable two seater trainer version(same is not true in case of MKI as all are two seater). Meaning, IAF is buying 36 single seater and 4 two seater. I don't think 4 is large enough to be used during combat as most of the time they will be busy in training newcomers in LCA squadron.

 

[ZOOM]

ZOOM. I think my words were not clear enough. When i said pure trainer then it meant for fighter conversion training which includes everything from understanding flight characteristics to weapon dropping and shooting. Only difference will be that IAF will not use LCA-T during combat(as per present plans).

Presently,as reported IAF is buying 40 LCA MK-1 or two squadrons of LCA MK-1. Typically an IAF squadron consists of 18 fighter version + 2 fully combat capable two seater trainer version(same is not true in case of MKI as all are two seater). Meaning, IAF is buying 36 single seater and 4 two seater. I don't think 4 is large enough to be used during combat as most of the time they will be busy in training newcomers in LCA squadron.

I know it quite really well, but as we move towards configuring nearly 200 of such jets then I don't see any isolation of combact trainers from operationl use.

Anyway, Rahul, I would like your opinion about aerodyamics of LCA as how manouverable it is as compared to MKI. Can it beat MKI in dogfight?

 

[Rahul Singh]

I know it quite really well, but as we move towards configuring nearly 200 of such jets then I don't see any isolation of combact trainers from operationl use.

I can't predict of change in plans but possibility is high as in past IAF have used two seater trainers for tactical missions like photographing area of interest etc.

, Rahul, I would like your opinion about aerodyamics of LCA as how manouverable it is as compared to MKI. Can it beat MKI in dogfight?

MKI is a dog fight dream bird. Its 360 deg turn capability(without banking) and cobra maneuver can make any predator, a prey. MKI's powerful engines with TVC gives MKI both; better acceleration and manoeuvrability(deed required to be a winner in dog fight). LCA has its edge in its small size and acceleration. IMO though advanced FCS with unstable design makes LCA more muneverable than other deltas, but is it sufficient to beat MKI, is something time can only tell. One thing i must acknowledge that in my opinion a Russian fighter in the hands of a descent pilot makes that combo unbeatable in a dogfight.

 

[Dark_Prince]

How Many LCAs will be there actually? Some sources say 220+, But in the Wake of MMRCA and further expansion of this deal .....what will happen to the number of this magnificent Aircrafts Number? any Idea?

 

[kuku]

Aauch! Read my post again, i have highlighted something for you.

Doh!!!
sorry,

 

[neo29]

How Many LCAs will be there actually? Some sources say 220+, But in the Wake of MMRCA and further expansion of this deal .....what will happen to the number of this magnificent Aircrafts Number? any Idea?

there have been reports of total 220 lca's to be inducted but nothing official

officially 40 have been ordered by the IAF and 6 by indian navy.

 

[RPK]

EXCLUSIVE: AESA Programme For Tejas Scans For Development Partner
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/02/exclusive-aesa-programme-for-tejas.html

India's homegrown AESA radar programme appears to be gathering pace. The Bangalore-based Electronics & Radar Development Establishment (LRDE), a laboratory under the DRDO, has invited bids from global radar houses to be the development partner (DP) for India's in-house active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar for the LCA Tejas programme. In a tender issued on December 4 last year, LRDE wants the partnership to be initiated with the supply of an Active Array Antenna Unit (AAAU) supplied by the development partner chosen.

According to the bid invitation, India wants the development partner to be responsible for "detailed design, development and realisation" of (a) antenna panel constisting of main antenna, guard antenna and sidelobe cancellation antenna, (b) transmit/receive modules/groups, (c) RF distribution network consisting of RF manifold/combiners, RF interface, (d) antenna/beam control chain consisting of T/R control and T/R group control, and (e) array calibration/BITE among other areas. The final requirement in the comprehensive list of ten requirements from the development partner is listed as "AAAU Integration on Tejas A/c", confirming that the radar is indeed for a future tranche of the Tejas, or possibly, the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

"DP (development partner) must have experience in design, development, integration, testing and flightevaluation of AESA Radar systems for fighter class of aircraft. DP must ensure that the items/components used for the development of AAAU are not protected by International Traffic in Arms Regulation (ITAR). DP must have delivered AESA class of operational systems for fighter class of aircraft meeting delivery schedules of the international customers," the bid invitation states.

Photos by Shiv Aroor / 1. Raytheon APG-79 AESA antenna modules, Naval Air Station Lemoore, USA & 2. LCA Tejas at Aero India 2009

 

[notinlove]

i thought they already had developed the aesa or were buying it from elta? can anyone clarify please.

 

[ppgj]

i thought they already had developed the aesa or were buying it from elta? can anyone clarify please.

they were developing a hybrid, an MMR based on isreali 2032 - which is not an AESA. this was to be a stop gap till the full radar was in place.

 

[gb009]

EXCLUSIVE: AESA Programme For Tejas Scans For Development Partner
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/02/exclusive-aesa-programme-for-tejas.html



India's homegrown AESA radar programme appears to be gathering pace. The Bangalore-based Electronics & Radar Development Establishment (LRDE), a laboratory under the DRDO, has invited bids from global radar houses to be the development partner (DP) for India's in-house active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar for the LCA Tejas programme. In a tender issued on December 4 last year, LRDE wants the partnership to be initiated with the supply of an Active Array Antenna Unit (AAAU) supplied by the development partner chosen.

According to the bid invitation, India wants the development partner to be responsible for "detailed design, development and realisation" of (a) antenna panel constisting of main antenna, guard antenna and sidelobe cancellation antenna, (b) transmit/receive modules/groups, (c) RF distribution network consisting of RF manifold/combiners, RF interface, (d) antenna/beam control chain consisting of T/R control and T/R group control, and (e) array calibration/BITE among other areas. The final requirement in the comprehensive list of ten requirements from the development partner is listed as "AAAU Integration on Tejas A/c", confirming that the radar is indeed for a future tranche of the Tejas, or possibly, the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

"DP (development partner) must have experience in design, development, integration, testing and flightevaluation of AESA Radar systems for fighter class of aircraft. DP must ensure that the items/components used for the development of AAAU are not protected by International Traffic in Arms Regulation (ITAR). DP must have delivered AESA class of operational systems for fighter class of aircraft meeting delivery schedules of the international customers," the bid invitation states.

Photos by Shiv Aroor / 1. Raytheon APG-79 AESA antenna modules, Naval Air Station Lemoore, USA & 2. LCA Tejas at Aero India 2009

Don't get me wrong but doesn't it look like the DRDO is asking the DP partner to basically spoon-feed them AESA technology. I mean if "detailed design, development and realisation" is DP's responsibility then what is DRDO doing in this? People who know things about radars could you please tell what is left for DRDO to do apart from the requirements mentioned above (for which DP is responsible).

Very few countries/companies have AESA technology, what makes DRDO think that they will find a DP partner who is ready for full technology transfer after having spent years of effort and loads of money in its research.

I think the best option is to get (buy) 2052 for LCA and keep working on the radar ourselves. I am sure the DRDO could do it on its own but if the DRDO itself dosn't have the confidence then I am not sure what should be done!

 

[nitesh]

^^
you are bang on target mate

 

[ppgj]

Don't get me wrong but doesn't it look like the DRDO is asking the DP partner to basically spoon-feed them AESA technology. I mean if "detailed design, development and realisation" is DP's responsibility then what is DRDO doing in this? People who know things about radars could you please tell what is left for DRDO to do apart from the requirements mentioned above (for which DP is responsible).

Very few countries/companies have AESA technology, what makes DRDO think that they will find a DP partner who is ready for full technology transfer after having spent years of effort and loads of money in its research. (

as i said in my previous post, they are developing hybrid MMR radar based on israeli 2032, which is a stop gap for a fully operational indigenous radar (possibly an AESA).

it seems that DRDO is conscious of strict timelines of the IAF and most probably have deduced that they are not in a position to deliver for LCA mark 2 timeline. quoting from the above report -

The final requirement in the comprehensive list of ten requirements from the development partner is listed as "AAAU Integration on Tejas A/c", confirming that the radar is indeed for a future tranche of the Tejas, or possibly, the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

which means the hybrid radar will go on the LCA mark 1 and the proposed radar will go on mark 2/3 versions at a later date along with the future MCA.

p.s: the report only says future tranches of LCA which means it may or may not be mark 2 version possibly a future mark 3 but definitely the NGFA(MCA)

I think the best option is to get (buy) 2052 for LCA and keep working on the radar ourselves. I am sure the DRDO could do it on its own but if the DRDO itself dosn't have the confidence then I am not sure what should be done! :

one has to check whether 2052 fits in the small nose cone of LCA.

 

[nitesh]

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/02/lca-programme-to-get-status-check-by.html

Indian Defence Minister AK Antony is scheduled to visit Bangalore tomorrow, during which he will witness a 20-minute flight between 10.30-10.50AM of one of the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas prototypes in flight. He will receive a briefing on the status of the programme from HAL chairman Ashok Nayak and senior officials of the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA). Note, the LCA is to achieve initial operational clearance (IOC) this year. The minister will also, notably, inaugurate a digital flight control computer facility at Bharat Electronics Ltd's Bangalore complex and a system test and integration rig for India's indigenous airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) system at the Centre for Airborne Systems. EADS has confirmed that its consultancy to bring the air force version of the LCA up to speed on its flight trials schedule is active and a team has been embedded in Bangalore for the purpose. Updates and photos tomorrow.