ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
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shiphone

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some Reinforcement

[video=youtube_share;hSqvAxj6cJY]http://youtu.be/hSqvAxj6cJY[/video]

if you want to get a intuitive feeling for LCA's Sustained turn ability...I thought you (except that so called LCA expert) should have a look at the video starts @ 1'58''...this turn lasts 24-25 seconds to finish 360 degrees of the level...but we don't know the speed and G-limit...

so I have to say : at this Speed and under this G-limit, LCA 's Sustained turn Rate might be 360/24= 15 degrees/second...BLAH,BLAH,BLAH....

and please do pay the attention to the important conditions:
1.Speed
2.G-limit...
 

ersakthivel

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some Reinforcement

[video=youtube_share;hSqvAxj6cJY]http://youtu.be/hSqvAxj6cJY[/video]

if you want to get a intuitive feeling for LCA's Sustained turn ability...I thought you (except that so called LCA expert) should have a look at the video starts @ 1'58''...this turn lasts 24-25 seconds to finish 360 degrees of the level...but we don't know the speed and G-limit...

so I have to say : at this Speed and under this G-limit, LCA 's Sustained turn Rate might be 360/24= 15 degrees/second...BLAH,BLAH,BLAH....

and please do pay the attention to the important conditions:
1.Speed
2.G-limit...

answer is simple ,

In horizontal turn the fighter was not pushed to the limit it was pushed in the vertical turn,

is it so hard for you to accept it?

I posted the rahulrds1's video which clearly showed the vertical in 20 seconds, why are you not posting it here.

Even the vertical loop STR of 18 deg per second was achieved with 6G and 20 deg AOA limit.

Now it is slated to go over 28 deg AOA and 8G limits as per the most experienced test pilot of tejas,Suneet krishna who revealed this in IOC-2 function. Also the guy was awarded a prestigious award in US for the test pilots last year.

So compare where your lies stand with respect to truth,

So your long troll about tejas having excess drag is all proved as lies.
if we have to accept your 15 deg STR, then we should all close our eyes when tejas completes a vertical loop in twenty second after that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

your stupid lies regarding tejas having excess drag was already exposed in combat aircraft evolution and technology,
where you lied with no shame,

Still you are posting all this blah blah means, you have some persistence!!!!!!!!!!
 
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ersakthivel

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I can't stand this ... Lies or wrong undertanding repeated for thouands times shouldn't be regonized as the Truth..
-------------------------------------------

I read such misleading statement two weeks ago in post#1823 ( @10-12-13, 12:56 PM in this thread ). I'm surprised that no one want to correct it and some would 'like' that...I know many senior Indian member have put someone---who never learn--on the Ignore list...but some other members should not be mislead due to such non-action...

I would like to put the whole Video of one of LCA's performance on the Aero 2013...so so callel 48' seconds long clip is just a part of it...

[video=youtube_share;hSqvAxj6cJY]http://youtu.be/hSqvAxj6cJY[/video]

if you want to get a intuitive feeling for LCA's Sustained turn ability...I thought you (except that so called LCA expert) should have a look at the video starts @ 1'58''...

Sustained turn Rate is a feature about Horizontal maneuvering
..
-----------------------------
about the impact and relation of AOA and G-limits in a Sustained turn...here's a different angles of slope in two kind of Sustained turns under the 2G and 5G limit...



the relation between G limit and centripetal force needed in Sustained turns---note: in this image, the G limit should be the reverse direction of the "Y" force which was not indicated.



the realtion between AOA and lift force to maintian the altitude and provide the centripetal force

After reading such misleading statement why did you keep quiet for so long,

I posted it in order to debate it. but you read it and keep quiet for two weeks? So strange!!!

Any way two weeks or two years the truth won't change.

it is a fact that tejas completed vertical loop in aeroindia-2013 in 20 seconds.

So what do we call the rate or sustained turn in a vertical loop?

A half loop gets completed in 10 seconds

Full loop gets completed in 20 seconds,

So 360deg/20= 18 deg per second is wrong!!!!!!!



What happens between 1 to 21 seconds should not be used for calculating any turn rate perhaps,

it is quite possible in the horizontal loop tejas was not pushed to the limits it was pushed to in vertical loop,

perhaps the so called tejas non-experts have great difficulty in accepting it.
 
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ersakthivel

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So what happens in this video from 1.29 to 1.50, where a vertical loop gets completed ?

it is the same loop covered in the following video from much close quarters by rahulrds1,
 
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shiphone

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once again...some idiot and joker couldn't understand even the basic concept of airplane's vertical maneuvering and level maneuvering ,and the SUSTAINED TURN PERFORMANCE...

The concept of sustained maneuverability is used to describe the airplane's ability to maneuver at constant altitude without losing energy and without decelerating. If the airplane is maintaining a level turn at constant airspeed and load factor, the forces along the flight path are balanced. Thrust equals drag for these conditions; therefore, the amount of maneuvering drag the airplane can balance is limited by the maximum thrust. Any changes in thrust available or drag will affect the sustained turning performance.The sustained turning capability may also be limited by airframe considerations. For a level turn at a particular airspeed, the airplane uses excess thrust to counter the increased drag. Thrust available varies with ambient temperature, Mach number andaltitude.....
it is a shame of DFI and even for a nation....

-----------------------------------------
actually, F16 has demonstrated its STR ability of 18 degrees/second -- at some certain SPEED and ALTITUDE and under some G-Load limit-- on Aero India 2013...

start from 0'35'' - 0'55''

[video=youtube_share;T7acMuIr-Nk]http://youtu.be/T7acMuIr-Nk[/video]
 
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Defcon 1

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once again...some idiot and joker couldn't understand even the basic concept of airplane's vertical maneuvering and level maneuvering ,and the SUSTAINED TURN PERFORMANCE...



it is a shame of DFI and even for a nation....

-----------------------------------------
actually, F16 has demonstrated its STR ability of 18 degrees/second -- at some certain SPEED and ALTITUDE and under some G-Load limit-- on Aero India 2013...

start from 0'35'' - 0'55''

[video=youtube_share;T7acMuIr-Nk]http://youtu.be/T7acMuIr-Nk[/video]
Soon you will be bombarded with revenge posts which will indisputably prove that you can do nothing good with your life and Tejas is the best aircraft ever built and it will beat F22 in every form of combat conceivable. Then, you might even receive infractions.

I respect what you are doing, but tread lightly
 

ersakthivel

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once again...some idiot and joker couldn't understand even the basic concept of airplane's vertical maneuvering and level maneuvering ,and the SUSTAINED TURN PERFORMANCE...



it is a shame of DFI and even for a nation....

-----------------------------------------
actually, F16 has demonstrated its STR ability of 18 degrees/second -- at some certain SPEED and ALTITUDE and under some G-Load limit-- on Aero India 2013...

start from 0'35'' - 0'55''

[video=youtube_share;T7acMuIr-Nk]http://youtu.be/T7acMuIr-Nk[/video]
respected super genius chinese poster,

SO next time some one shows you a film with a fighter doing a vertical loop in 20 seconds and ask what it's vertical sustained turn rate is what will you answer?

I too gave the same answer any rational person can give,

namely the fighter has a vertical sustained rate of 18 deg per second even within the 70 percent of it's flight envelope capability.

So what is it going to do with the nation and DFI?

F-16 was cleared for full flight envelope and tejas was cleared for just around 70 percent of it's AOA and 6G limits.

Your EXPORT ONLY Junk fighter-17 did both the vertical loop and horizontal loop in the same 24 seconds with dinosur era STR of 15 deg per second, when it had it's full AOA and 8G clearance,in the recently concluded Dubai airshow

Tejas with just 20 deg AOA limit and 6G limitations did a vertical loop in 20 seconds with a vertical STR of 18 deg per second,

With 28 plus degree AOA and 8G limit after FOC , lets see what it does,

Go to the JF-17 thread in this forum and see the video posted by farhan to confirm this stupid STR of 15 deg per second which can be done by 1970s era Mig-21
 
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ersakthivel

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Soon you will be bombarded with revenge posts which will indisputably prove that you can do nothing good with your life and Tejas is the best aircraft ever built and it will beat F22 in every form of combat conceivable. Then, you might even receive infractions.

I respect what you are doing, but tread lightly
Now you are back to doing your original job of headless chicken run with no comprehension about what is being discussed here,

Soon I expect couple of your friends to join this headless chicken relay run for the aerodynamite expert Gold medal.
 

Defcon 1

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Now you are back to doing your original job of headless chicken run with no comprehension about what is being discussed here,

Soon I expect couple of your friends to join this headless chicken relay run for the aerodynamite expert Gold medal.
I comprehend enough to understand that in aviation, there is no term like "vertical sustained turn rate" and it was made up by on the fly, like you have been making up everything else on this forum.
 
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ersakthivel

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I comprehend enough to understand that in aviation, there is no term like "vertical sustained turn rate" and it was made up by on the fly, like you have been making up everything else on this forum.
SO next time some one shows you a film with a fighter doing a vertical loop in 20 seconds and ask what it's sustained turn rate is what will you answer?

So why couldn't the glorious chinese junk fighter complete the vertical loop with in 20 seconds in Dubai airshow, like tejas did in aeroindia-2013?

tejas was restricted to 20 deg AOA and 6g limits when it did the Aeroindia -2013.

JF-17 did the vertical loop and horizontal loop both with in 24 seconds eventhough the Jf-17 had it's AOA and G limits fully opened and now being proudly proclaimed as export only fighter rivaling F-16?

thats why I am fed up with the consistent headless chicken argument of tejas being a tail less delta with a large wing area is prone to more drag so it can't turn fast and it will have a poor range,

how can such a draggy tejas complete a vertical loop within 20 seconds with 70 percent opened capability,

while less wing area LREX , DSI equipped revolutionary export only JF-17 staggered to complete a vertical loop in 24 seconds in just concluded dubai airshow with the fully opened flight envelope?

So if you accept our chines friends argument that tejas has a STR of just 15 degree how could you explain it completing a vertical loop in 20 seconds?

Any answers?



Please answer from your comprehension abilities?
 
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TrueSpirit1

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I comprehend enough to understand that in aviation, there is no term like "vertical sustained turn rate" and it was made up by on the fly, like you have been making up everything else on this forum.
We expect some real arguments & some merits in those arguments. Unless you have a solid background in Engg./Mechanics, please don't copy-paste opinions without a second thought. There are enough vested interests against the Tejas but alas, Tejas is to be inducted in hundred's in IAF & would form IAF's backbone is any long-drawn war of attrition. I believe IAF knows what it is doing. Naysayers & sceptics have already been put to rest with IOC-II & FOC-II within 2 years from now.
 

Defcon 1

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We expect some real arguments & some merits in those arguments. Unless you have a solid background in Engg./Mechanics, please don't copy-paste opinions without a second thought. There are enough vested interests against the Tejas but alas, Tejas is to be inducted in hundred's in IAF & would form IAF's backbone is any long-drawn war of attrition. I believe IAF knows what it is doing. Naysayers & sceptics have already been put to rest with IOC-II & FOC-II within 2 years from now.
There is a simple solid background. There doesn't exist a term in aviation like "vertical sustained turn rate". STR is defined for horizontal turns only, otherwise the force balance become meaningless. If you suspect otherwise, I would encourage you search through any book you can find and tell me where did you read about that term, do some hard work instead of giving opinions.
 

TrueSpirit1

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There is a simple solid background. There doesn't exist a term in aviation like "vertical sustained turn rate". STR is defined for horizontal turns only, otherwise the force balance become meaningless. If you suspect otherwise, I would encourage you search through any book you can find and tell me where did you read about that term, do some hard work instead of giving opinions.
If there is "any" background at all, it is far from visible from any of your posts. Your posts have been usual BS like this...

Tejas is the best aircraft ever built and it will beat F22 in every form of combat conceivable
.

Then, you might even receive infractions.
Now who has ever claimed that ? Show me 1 such evidence on DFI.

Only half-knowledge peddlers & pontificators like you tread on such absolute absurd.

That particular term in contention never existed but you do get the point he is trying to make. Anyway, LCA success like IOC-II is too hard for copy-paste know-all's like you.

It is not about difference of opinion but your full-of-yourself attitude...always without any substance. Learn from p2prada.

IAF does not agree with all that ignorant fanatics like you have mindlessly spewing against LCA & IAF knows way better than you ever would, over several lifetimes. So, take a chill-pill & watch your claims getting busted via Tejas FOC.
 
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Defcon 1

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If there is "any" background at all, it is far from visible from any of your posts. Your posts have been usual BS like this...

.



Now who has ever claimed that ? Show me 1 such evidence on DFI.

Only half-knowledge peddlers & pontificators like you tread on such absolute absurd.

That particular term in contention never existed but you do get the point he is trying to make. Anyway, LCA success like IOC-II is too hard for copy-paste know-all's like you.

It is not about difference of opinion but your full-of-yourself attitude...always without any substance. Learn from p2prada.

IAF does not agree with all that ignorant fanatics like you have mindlessly spewing against LCA & IAF knows way better than you ever would, over several lifetimes. So, take a chill-pill & watch your claims getting busted via Tejas FOC.
Funny that you don't have to say anything when people compare it to Rafale day in and day out. Want me to show the posts? anyways lets accept that whatever you have said is right.

Now coming to topic, you need to ask yourself if you are actually getting the point he is trying to make. What he did was posted a video of LCA doing a vertical loop, he calculated the time take to complete the whole loop and used it to find out by how many degrees the aircraft turned every second. The value came out to be 18 degree per second and he started saying that Tejas has achieved the STR of 18 deg/sec. Now I don't know how long have you followed this thread but he has repeating this statement for months. I can show you the posts if you want to.

However as you will find everywhere, STR is defined for strictly horizontal turns only. So a vertical loop in 20 secs doesn't amount to STR of 18 deg. However he has been selling this lie for months now. When Shipone contested it, he manufactured a new term "vertical sustained turn rate" and started saying that LCA has achieved 18 degree "vertical sustained turn rate". That is the point he was trying to make which I got perfectly. Unfortunately you didn't. Is this substantial enough?
 

ersakthivel

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Funny that you don't have to say anything when people compare it to Rafale day in and day out. Want me to show the posts? anyways lets accept that whatever you have said is right.

Now coming to topic, you need to ask yourself if you are actually getting the point he is trying to make. What he did was posted a video of LCA doing a vertical loop, he calculated the time take to complete the whole loop and used it to find out by how many degrees the aircraft turned every second. The value came out to be 18 degree per second and he started saying that Tejas has achieved the STR of 18 deg/sec. Now I don't know how long have you followed this thread but he has repeating this statement for months. I can show you the posts if you want to.

However as you will find everywhere, STR is defined for strictly horizontal turns only. So a vertical loop in 20 secs doesn't amount to STR of 18 deg. However he has been selling this lie for months now. When Shipone contested it, he manufactured a new term "vertical sustained turn rate" and started saying that LCA has achieved 18 degree "vertical sustained turn rate". That is the point he was trying to make which I got perfectly. Unfortunately you didn't. Is this substantial enough?
What I started to say was that tejas has a vertical sustained turn rate of 18 deg per second , even within the 20 deg AOA limit and 6g limits.

I never said that tejas did a horizontal turn with a sustained turn rate of 18 deg per second, if people couldn't digest the fact tejas did a vertical loop in 20 seconds , they should not try to put words in my mouth,

The significance of this is not so trivial. it means if tejas is pursued by other fighters in a dog fight and it does a vertical loop with a better vertical sustained turn rate than the fighter pursuing it, achieving gun kills on it is impossible.

because the pilot uses the best attributes of the fighter to do close combat.

That is the reason fighters exhibit their turn rates in both the horizontal plane and vertical plane to prospective buyers in airshows,


I am surprised that you kept quiet when shipone posted useless drivel like tail less deltas have high subsonic drag.Why didn't you ask any source from him for this BS statement.If it is so Dassualt,SAAB, EADS are fools to design tailless deltas?

Does the legendary aircraft designer( who designed F-16 ) designed a tailless delta F-16 XL as an evolution of tailed cropped delta does not know of this dubious fact that"tailless deltas have high subsonic drag"?

I have posted the authentic link to F-16 XL page many times to prove this point,You,

@shiphone@p2prada, @Twinblade, [MENTION=8171]

haven't commented back on this.

WHY?

. From that point on I knew these were running a systematic campaign based on lies.Please don't join them.

You can see F-16 Vs F-16 XL range comparison for the advantages of cranked deltas over plain deltas for ranges.

A tail less delta has more drag than the JF-17 type conventional lay out fighters like JF-17. But the cranked delta has much better LIFT for their drag. SO they have a preferable LIFT to DRAG ratio over JF-17 type conventional lay out fighters like JF-17 is explained beautifully in the following link.

http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineA...1183f16xl.aspx



Tejas is also a cranked arrow tail less delta like F-16 XL.

In the photo below a normal F-16 flies along side the F-16 Xl.





If physics laws have no nationality What holds good for F-16 Xl over plain F-16 should also hold good for tejas and generally for all other tail less deltas universally on the atmosphere of the earth.


Please give any proof with credible source for ,"the disadvantage of tailless delta wing during the subsonic flight".

Even the fuselage plug recommended by CEMILAC for reducing drag by better adhering to smooth and gradual increase cross section from5 to 6 meters for tejas applies only in ,"super sonic flight" and it has no implication for subsonic loiter time or sustained turns carried out corner speeds typically lower than the speed of sound,

But this problem is solved in tejas mk-1 even without the fuselage plug as mentioned in a press release that tejas mk-1 has achieved the highest sea level top speed of 1350 Km per hour in skies over Goa during an effort to pull out of a "Power less dive " from 4 Km altitude to sea level as part of its flutter tests,

You should note that both Mig-29 and Su-30 MKI has never achieved a top speed better than this in Indian skies in dives of straight flight.

So where is the drag ? tejas has gone past the top speeds achieved by Su-30 MKI and Mig-29 in indian skies at sea level is the official IAF wordings on that press release.

There is no chinese physics or indian ignorance attached to ,"the disadvantage of tailless delta wing during the subsonic flight"

Then how come another tail less delta Mirage-2000 has such phenomenal range?



If these Fuel fractions are true then ranges then according to universal physics laws ,

with optimum weapon load the combat range will also strictly follow the same ratios for normally combat useful mission is generally accepted practice.

No matter which manufacturer lists what range for their fighters with full external load of fuels and full weapon load for their fighters ,

with optimum weapon load the combat range will also strictly follow the same Fuel Fraction ratios for normally combat useful mission
 
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ersakthivel

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The canards present on grippen , RAFALE and TYPHOON are going to reduce this drag perhaps!!!!!!!!!!!!!. No way the canard acts primarily as a vortex generation device

to energize airflow on the wing upper surface during high alpha flights,

when the upper wing surface gets starved of airflow during it being shielded by the large delta wing,

due to high AOA angles .In fact deltas are always associated with high speed ,high alpha specs.With fly by wire RSS and cranked delta the plain deltas got much more effective.

In tejas and F-16 Xl this vortex generation job is done by the cranked delta leading edge wing. I have posted a NAL research PDF many times to show the effect of vortex generation by the cranked deltas.

The F-22 and PAKFA also follow the same large low wing loading area with no canards principles of Tejas,

The F-22 has a lower angled swept wing leading edge above the air intake just like tejas.

And PAKFA too is having the same wing arrangement in addition to having LEVCONs. These LEVCONS were first introduced to the world by none other than Kota Harinarayana who used it to upgrade the performance of MIg-21s in a massive upgrade program.

Even without these LEVCONs the IAF tejas mk-2 is deemed maneuverable enough.Only naval tejas mk-2 is supposed to have it. If IAf too asks for it , it can be easily arranged on tejas mk-2 for IAF.

The canards also acts as a control surface. In tejas there are no canards , but the control surfaces attached to the wings are huge and many times bigger than that present on grippen , so there is no difference in control surface area.
 
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Twinblade

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@Twinblade

haven't commented back on this.

WHY?

. From that point on I knew these were running a systematic campaign based on lies.Please don't join them.
I must admit you have exposed me completely. I was being paid handsomely to spread lies about domestic programs, but you had to meddle in my livelihood, didn't you ? I was being paid by RSS agents that are actually Indian Mujahideen double agents recruited from the cadre of Samajwadi party's minority cell puppeteered by the Communist Party of India's sleeper cell that was constituted as a part of false flag operation by Gujarat police on behest of Narendra Modi's beef eating duplicate, who after killing the real Modi has taken his place in an R&AW operation sanctioned by Sonia Gandhi and Pranab Mukherjee, who is indeed Subhash Chandra Bose, kept alive by organ transplants, stem cell therapy and plastic surgery by Soviet doctors that were German Nazi prisoners of war who believed in the supremacy of the Aryan race and were extensively funded by Brahmins and upper caste people who in an extensive facade were headed by Ambedkar in a massive conspiracy to overthrow the British funded by Bahadur Shah Zafar who faked his own death in Rangoon aided by a few British officers sympathetic to his cause, but who were actually double agents of the British queen who had a steamy and torrid lesbian love affair with her Indian maid from marathwada, personally trained by Tantya Tope to spy on the British crown and convince them to wage a war on Lakshmi Bai who was in fact carrying the son of Aurangzeb, who time travelled into the future on a supari by Nathuram Godse to kill Gandhi's parents before he was born, but Arvind Kejriwal 30 years from now sends in a cybernetic clone of Kamal Rizwan Khan to successfully kill Auranzeb before he kills Gandhi's parents, who in a hashish fueled haze converts to Hinduism, enrolled into East India company's army, changed his name to Mangal Pandey and started a fight about greased cartridges and what not.

Now I'll never be able to afford a Bentley. Even that ponytailed joker Arindum Choudhury has a bentley. Damn you !!

OR

Alternate explanation: You happen to be on my ignore list, hence your posts are not visible to me.
 
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p2prada

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Blah blah blah blah blah. More Blah Blah Blah. Endless blah blah blah.
Dedicated song for you.


Comes with subtitles since you don't comprehend stuff easily, Mr. Aeroplane Expert.

haven't commented back on this.

WHY?
Alternate explanation: You happen to be on my ignore list, hence your posts are not visible to me.
 
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