ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[TrueSpirit]

Stealth possibilities with LCA MK II

Given its small size anyway, it's "virtually invisible" to adversary fighter; were how a Tejas Test pilot described Tejas RCS signature. Use of carbon fibre gives Tejas natural stealth characteristics and advantage of low operating costs, use of carbon fibre composites (CFC) gives Tejas 45 percent content by weight and 90 per cent of its surface is made of carbon fibres, Carbon fibre doesn't make aircraft stealthily but reflection of radar beams by CFC is much less when compared to metallic components in the aircrafts but CFC with Radar-absorbent material coating and given the smaller size of aircraft gives Tejas low radar signature or stealth characteristics .

Expert believe that RCS of Tejas is three times smaller than a Mirage-2000, but it might be speculation since official RCS figure of Tejas has never been made available in public domain, CFC have other advantages they don't deteriorate with age nor corrode due weather elements, CFC also gives Tejas better operational empty weight giving Tejas better thrust to weight ratio when compared with other aircrafts with similar engines. CFC does have their own disadvantages, there are expensive to make but India has already invested heavily in development of CFC making it among the best in CFC technology in the world.

Sensing an opportunity and possibility of further reduction in radar signature of Tejas, DRDO has put towed with idea of development of Tejas MK-3 with better improvements and lowering its radar signatures, DRDO plans to use up to 70 percent of CFC in Tejas MK-3 up from 45 percent currently used in Tejas MK-1. DRDO also plans to focus on reducing infrared signature of the aircraft by reducing exhaust temperatures from the engine, to make Tejas MK-3 near Stealth aircraft DRDO also plans to improve fuselage and improve engine ducts to achieve low radar signature.

Research work carried out on AMCA will help in development of Tejas MK-3 and MK-3 will also benefit in avionics development which according to DRDO will borrow heavily from AMCA. Two current projects on Stealth front headed by DRDO are development of Stealth aircraft AMCA and development of unmanned combat aircraft Aura, MK3 likely will be testbed for such development and technology developed will benefit all three projects in long term in future.

Link

 

[ersakthivel]

Stealth possibilities with LCA MK II

Given its small size anyway, it's "virtually invisible" to adversary fighter; were how a Tejas Test pilot described Tejas RCS signature. Use of carbon fibre gives Tejas natural stealth characteristics and advantage of low operating costs, use of carbon fibre composites (CFC) gives Tejas 45 percent content by weight and 90 per cent of its surface is made of carbon fibres, Carbon fibre doesn't make aircraft stealthily but reflection of radar beams by CFC is much less when compared to metallic components in the aircrafts but CFC with Radar-absorbent material coating and given the smaller size of aircraft gives Tejas low radar signature or stealth characteristics .

Expert believe that RCS of Tejas is three times smaller than a Mirage-2000, but it might be speculation since official RCS figure of Tejas has never been made available in public domain, CFC have other advantages they don't deteriorate with age nor corrode due weather elements, CFC also gives Tejas better operational empty weight giving Tejas better thrust to weight ratio when compared with other aircrafts with similar engines. CFC does have their own disadvantages, there are expensive to make but India has already invested heavily in development of CFC making it among the best in CFC technology in the world.

Sensing an opportunity and possibility of further reduction in radar signature of Tejas, DRDO has put towed with idea of development of Tejas MK-3 with better improvements and lowering its radar signatures, DRDO plans to use up to 70 percent of CFC in Tejas MK-3 up from 45 percent currently used in Tejas MK-1. DRDO also plans to focus on reducing infrared signature of the aircraft by reducing exhaust temperatures from the engine, to make Tejas MK-3 near Stealth aircraft DRDO also plans to improve fuselage and improve engine ducts to achieve low radar signature.

Research work carried out on AMCA will help in development of Tejas MK-3 and MK-3 will also benefit in avionics development which according to DRDO will borrow heavily from AMCA. Two current projects on Stealth front headed by DRDO are development of Stealth aircraft AMCA and development of unmanned combat aircraft Aura, MK3 likely will be testbed for such development and technology developed will benefit all three projects in long term in future.

Link

But you can count on IAF to shoot down such sensible proposals. tejas can be developed into stealth version either with single engine or twin engines(the original tail less MCA model) with very little developmental cost. For ex the cost of developing MK-2 will be a fraction of what it would have been if it was dveloped as a green field project.

this is what the russians are doing with PAKFA , they have evolved their highly successful Su-30 design with addition of LEVCONS into PAKFA. So the first comment on PAKFA in every forum goes like this,"By carrying the proven Su-30 lineage it is given that PAKFA will have super agility performance ".


Since the wing shape was designed , test flown and studied for a decade , it is quite easy to scale it up for either a twin engine or single engine MK-3.Look at the wing shape of Miss february 6th gen concept by Boeing, It looks very close to that of tejas.

We can add whatever design addition to tejas mk-2. and since it has a large wing rea it can easily be developed into wing fuselage body blended shape which is the basic requirement of any 5th gen fighter.addition of internal bomb bays and reshaping is the only thing that required. Also it will save enormous amount of time and money.

Sinc IAF is already well versed in the flight test and design of MK-2, it's suggestions like lengthening of the airframe and adding another engine(if it wants a twin engined one) all will be added from the start.

But once again we are going for a totally new design in our AMCA program, which will lead to more developmental time.

 

[TrueSpirit]

But you can count on IAF to shoot down such sensible proposals.

Yeah, & that would be extremely unfortunate.

 

[ersakthivel]

Only V.K.saraswath wa talking about teajs mk-3. there was a stony silence from IAF side, The concept of stealth medium fighter is hanging fire from 2002 to 2010.

By not going for another parallel program based on the Tejas version concurrently means already 8 years were lost in AMCA project. What happened in the all of the eight years is MCA project has acquired an additional A and become AMCA.

Everyone concerned knew that once after the TD flew most of the concepts were correct as validated by 12 years of 2000 test flights, Then why a parallel twin engined program was not sanctioned with shoring up of additional man power?The UPA govt and airforce was sleeping on it for the past 10 years. Whose fault is this.

In these 10 years the chinese have built and test flown TWO stealth fighter concepts in J-20 , J-31.They too did not have a working engine. Didi it stop them from going in for two parallel 5th gen fighters at the same time?Simply laying all the blame on GTRE is not good enough. If at all AMCA was finalized in 2002 itself air frame would have been available by now.

And in 4 or 5years even without foreign JV partner GTRE can manage a working engine with 52 kn dry and 80 Kn wet thrust which were not very far from the design intent. So we could have designed the AMCA with 160 kn kn total thrust in mind and , could have had the working model of AMCA getting IOC at least at the end of this decade. This chance was willfully squandered by IAF-MOD combine.

Many people including our defence minister rue the delays in LCA project. Then why no one is highlighting this sleeping on the ASR for 8 years.

 

[vram]

@ersakthivel
The Need of the hour is to get the MK.1 up and running as soon as possible with the IAF. IF the fighter proves itself to the forces the support will automatically come. IF not from the senior commanders atleast from the rank and file of the air force officers will support it. This will not be easy to ignore and go for a foriegn option. We are almost in the last lap now and the delivery standards and timelines by and performance of the first few handed over jets has to be high of not flawless.
I am uneasy about this delay in getting the fighter to IOC-2. No use talking about past delays by Dr.Sarswat . All are done and over with. Only the future counts now and the project has to sprint to make up for any delays.

 

[ersakthivel]

@ersakthivel
The Need of the hour is to get the MK.1 up and running as soon as possible with the IAF. IF the fighter proves itself to the forces the support will automatically come. IF not from the senior commanders atleast from the rank and file of the air force officers will support it. This will not be easy to ignore and go for a foriegn option. We are almost in the last lap now and the delivery standards and timelines by and performance of the first few handed over jets has to be high of not flawless.

I am uneasy about this delay in getting the fighter to IOC-2. No use talking about past delays by Dr.Sarswat . All are done and over with. Only the future counts now and the project has to sprint to make up for any delays.

See other than the missles developed by DRDO , with no interference from armed forces , not many stuffs from DRDO recieved hearty co operation from the top defence powers to be.I won't say army or IAF .

Right from the day TD flew , every one knows the design worked. But only in 2006 IAF set up any meaning ful co-ord team aith ADA.If IAF set aside some funds from it's budget bolstering the manpower, co-ord was good at the initial phases a lot of time could have been saved.

It was not my claim. it is the claim made by philip Rajkumar in his book. IAF powers to be always considered ADA and Tejas
beneath their contempt.

IAf refused to set aside a penny from it's budget for Tejas , contrast this with the Navy's attitude of allotting 1000 cr to Tejas
naval version. Only after that IAF reluctantly set aside some money for mk-2 development I think.

despite the fact all the fighters that fly on IAF carry most of their upgraded avionics from LCA project , IAF never supported the project in the initial stages.It always wanted an upgraded MIg in LCA's place and was miffed about it's request being turned down. From that day on Tejas only recieved step motherly treatment fro IAF.

Still you see how enthusiastically the chinese airforce higher ups and french airforce higher ups are supporting J-10 and RAFALE.

Do they quibble infront of camera for the J-10 having lower TWR and RAFALE having the 20 year old engine tech?
Every one know there will be minor issues with every fighting platform. But they always know it can be overcome by either tactics or further refinement. But the behavior from our higher ups are not very encouraging.

Compare that to the effusive praise heaped on MIG-21 by IAF higher ups .Every single russian origin fighter in IAF firmament has far more technically issues than tejas. But IAF keeps silent about it.

Same with the russian origin tanks, but have you ever heard such carping criticism from Army higher ups about that?
But when it come to tejas or ARJUN all knives are out.

Contrast that with the attiude of calling it MIG-21 ++ on it's IOC day(The same guy went to Sweeden and flew the Grippen saying it is great) and calling it three leged cheetah and god knows what names. it is just not a coincidence.

Other than the IAF guys involved with the Tejas project(who all praise it saying it is better than the mirage which was the darling of IAF) Tejas only recieves brickbats.

Same for ARJUN, unnamed oficials always say the 60 ton ARJUn can't be deployed in areas other than desert , but the truth is far from that.As if they didn't know that ARJUN will endup weighing 60 tons only on a fine morning a month ago and being surprised by it,

 

[Ganesh2691]

New DRDO chief puts Tejas on radar

The Defence Research and Development Organisation's (DRDO) new boss Avinash Chander has put India's fighter jet project 'Tejas' on his radar, with a possible mission to jettison it out of the current turbulence.

In an interview to Express on Friday, soon after New Delhi officially handed over him the mandate to pilot DRDO for the next three years, Avinash said that completing the Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) of Tejas by September this year and attaining the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) by the end of 2014 were two primary targets he has already set.

"After finishing the taking over formalities, I am catching the first available flight to Bangalore to review the project. I am absolutely aware of the issues that are dogging the project and I would now want to see it from close quarters what the delays are. The Tejas' IOC and FOC cannot be postponed any further," said Avinash, who will also double up as the Scientific Adviser to the Union Defence Minister. He said the induction of India's long-range ballistic missile Agni-V and development of 155-mm gun were other projects that would get his immediate attention.

Saying that his task was cut out with many projects reeling under time overruns, Avinash promised to turn around DRDO into a delivery-oriented unit.

He said the DRDO would be restructured to catch up with the challenges of modern times. "I will take everything one step at a time. I am aware that we need to create the 'Brand DRDO' image. It will be a collective team effort. The idea is to take DRDO to the next level. I will ensure that the confidence of users in DRDO will be always high," Avinash said.

Incidentally, Avinash will be the second man after Dr A P J Abdul Kalam, who will serve as the DRDO chief beyond 65 years.

New DRDO chief puts Tejas on radar - The New Indian Express

 

[vram]

New DRDO chief puts Tejas on radar

The Defence Research and Development Organisation's (DRDO) new boss Avinash Chander has put India's fighter jet project 'Tejas' on his radar, with a possible mission to jettison it out of the current turbulence.

In an interview to Express on Friday, soon after New Delhi officially handed over him the mandate to pilot DRDO for the next three years, Avinash said that completing the Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) of Tejas by September this year and attaining the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) by the end of 2014 were two primary targets he has already set.

"After finishing the taking over formalities, I am catching the first available flight to Bangalore to review the project. I am absolutely aware of the issues that are dogging the project and I would now want to see it from close quarters what the delays are. The Tejas' IOC and FOC cannot be postponed any further,"

New DRDO chief puts Tejas on radar - The New Indian Express

THIS!!

A more hand on approach is the need of the hour and clearly understanding the prioirities. Noting his good track record with the AGNI hoping his actions are as good as his words.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Cold ' LEH '

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Tejas Cockpit at Night >>

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Tejas Glass Cockpit >>

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Tejas >>

 

[Ganesh2691]

LCA Flight test update

LCA-Tejas has completed 2182 Test Flights Successfully. (31-May-2013).

(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-365,LSP1-74,LSP2-273,PV5-36,LSP3-133,LSP4-80,LSP5-173,LSP7-38,NP1-4,LSP8-4)


From

LCA-Tejas has completed 2178 Test Flights Successfully. (28-May-2013).

(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-365,LSP1-74,LSP2-273,PV5-36,LSP3-132,LSP4-79,LSP5-172,LSP7-37,NP1-4,LSP8-4)

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

Question to gurus why there is no IRST sensor on tejas?

 

[brahmastra11]

Today morning heard sound of 2 more sorties and yesterday 1 sortie.

LCA Flight test update

LCA-Tejas has completed 2182 Test Flights Successfully. (31-May-2013).

(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-365,LSP1-74,LSP2-273,PV5-36,LSP3-133,LSP4-80,LSP5-173,LSP7-38,NP1-4,LSP8-4)


From

LCA-Tejas has completed 2178 Test Flights Successfully. (28-May-2013).

(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-365,LSP1-74,LSP2-273,PV5-36,LSP3-132,LSP4-79,LSP5-172,LSP7-37,NP1-4,LSP8-4)

 

[p2prada]

Question to gurus why there is no IRST sensor on tejas?

Not a requirement.

 

[ersakthivel]

Question to gurus why there is no IRST sensor on tejas?

If needed it can be added, like the in flight refuelling probe and litening pods..

 

[bhramos]

Tejas set to get clearance by 2014-end | Business Line

 

[Ganesh2691]

LCA Flight test update

LCA-Tejas has completed 2185 Test Flights Successfully. (05-June-2013).

(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-365,LSP1-74,LSP2-273,PV5-36,LSP3-134,LSP4-80,LSP5-174,LSP7-39,NP1-4,LSP8-4)

from
LCA-Tejas has completed 2182 Test Flights Successfully. (31-May-2013).

(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-365,LSP1-74,LSP2-273,PV5-36,LSP3-133,LSP4-80,LSP5-173,LSP7-38,NP1-4,LSP8-4)

 

[Abhi9]