ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[ersakthivel]

@ersakthivel,

Can you shed some light on ' What if LCA was equipped with TVC engine such as EJ-2000' how that would improved its preformace, cons and pros ?

Thanks in Advance.

It will add more weight in the tail area and lead to more time consuming engineering redesign. So it is not possible right now on mk-2. Also we need to get the kaveri k-10 ready for adding Thrust vectoring capability to LCA ,because it is doubtful whether the present Engine makers of LCA mk-2 ( GE ) will help us in implementing the TVC on GE-404 In and GE-414 .

SO Thrust vectoring capability should be purused in LCA mk-3 version with stealth external weapon pods and if possible in a slightly larger twin engined configuration with more frontal RCS optimization without internal weapon bays.Sadly other than DRDO chief V.K.Saraswat who talks about a much stealthier version of LCA mk-3 no one in IAf or MOD is interested.

This project should have been sanctioned 5 or six years before to preserve and improve on the vast research and engineering design cum testing effort done over the past two decades for LCA.But sadly no worthwhile effort is happening on these lines, instead we are spending more than 50 billion dollars in the purchase of RAFALE and PAKFA but won't release a billion dollar with additional manpower sanctions as a fall back option in case there is any delay in AMCA project, not to mention the massive export potential this LCA mk-3 will have.

This mk-3 can easily be delivered on time. look at the mk-2 , it won't take the same 20 plus years taken by the mk-1. In the same way much more stealthier mk-3 with Thrust vectoring capability and with more stealthier airframe design can be achieved in a fixed time frame. that is the option taken by SUKHOI for PAKFA. PAKFA takes all the best elements of SU-30 series and is configured in a stealthier fashion to meet a quicker production time target.It was not made to rival the F-22 in stealth.

Bu tin India a totally new design concept of AMCA is sanctioned first before the easily doable LCA mk-3 in contrast to the Russian approach.I don't know why Indian defence planners are not ready to consolidate the years of hard work done on LCA mk-1 and mk2 into a futuristic platform at a significantly reduced cost compared to RAFALE . RAFALE entered the design phase at the 70s.So however lethal it may be it won't compare to the LCA mk-3 which will be designed in 2013.

But we are ready to spend the money on RAFALE , but reluctant to sanction a billion dollar towards LCA mk-3.All the Sukhois IAF have won't match this LCA mk-3 in air defence role. Also we can easily perfect the TVC with LCA mk-3 before putting it on the AMCA.

But instead we are hearing swan song from A.K.Antony and so many other influential people that DRDO should finish the LCA by 2015. Every one knows that the prduction of LCA mk-1 is now in the hands of HAL not in the hands of ADA or DRDO.Setting up a modern dedicated production lines and turning out them faster is in HAL hands right now.Now we seemany reports on the net like that HAL won't be able to produce a 4.5th gen like Tejas mk-1 with the 3rd gen production tech of the host of fighters it produce.

And HAL is now scouting for a foriegn consultant to sort things out. This should have been done much eralier by HAL not right now. it is surprising that it did not anticipate Tejas production will start some time and did not do the ground work for that. The only cure for this malady is the dbifurication of HAl into two independant production houses as seen in the west and russia and china. Because HAl is now having it's hands full with Sukhois , Dhurv, Jags and Migs, along with Hawks and the about to be made RAFALE and PAKFA.

Nowhere in the world that a single manufacturer of fighter supports such varied production line and spares duty for such a diverse line of fighters. So it should be re organized into two parts. The production of RAFALE , LCA and the proposed AMCA should be re organized into another aviation company.ADA too should be merged into that unit.

producing and supporting MIgs, Jags, Sukhois which belong to a diferent manufacturing technology must be grouped into one unit.Also it should be decided where to fit the new helicpter design and production lines . ANd both the re organized HAl divisions should transform themselve into designers and system integerators on the lines of other aviation cos abroad. And private sector should be asked to step in with production of sub assemblies. it will result in the real dawn of aviation industry in India.

 

[rahulrds1]

US Navy may add conformal fuel tanks to F/A-18E/F Super Hornet fleet




The US Navy is considering adding conformal fuel tanks (CFTs) onto its fleet of Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet strike fighters, sources say. The twin dorsally mounted tanks are expected to be tested this summer.

The USN does not deny that it is interested in the conformal tanks, but says that it cannot comment on the project at this time. "As of right now this information is proprietarily owned between Boeing and Northrop [Grumman] and PMA-265 cannot talk to it," the Naval Air Systems Command says. PMA-265 is the US Navy programme office responsible for managing the F/A-18 and EA-18G fleets.


The CFTs, which Boeing has pitched to potential buyers as part of its Super Hornet international roadmap, would allow the F/A-18E/F to carry more than 1,590kg (3,500lb) of additional fuel. "Adding these tanks would make a great deal of sense," says Mark Gunzinger, an airpower analyst at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments. "The navy really needs to extend the reach of its carrier air wings. Increased range will be needed for potential operations in the Pacific region and elsewhere."

The USN's efforts to add CFTs might be part of the service's plan to hedge its bets in case of further delays to the Lockheed Martin F-35C, or if budgetary pressures force the navy to abandon that variant. "At this point, the F-35C is easily the most troubled variant," says Richard Aboulafia, an analyst at the Teal Group. The USN has always been lukewarm toward the stealthy single-engined fighter even if senior service leaders always publicly profess that the service "needs" the F-35C.

But there are questions as to whether the Super Hornet can support the added weight and drag of the CFTs without seriously impairing its aerodynamic performance. "One problem with CFTs on the F/A-18 is that I'm not really sure it has the power," Aboulafia says. "If they put CFTs on the [Boeing] F-15 and [Lockheed] F-16, they're fast jets. But the Super Hornet is already pretty much slowest in class."

Boeing officials have previously said that the addition of the CFTs does not add any cruise drag, but they admit that the appliqué fuel tanks would have a negative impact on the aircraft's transonic acceleration because of the increased waved drag. Transonic acceleration has always been a weak spot for the Super Hornet, and many pilots say the aircraft is seriously underpowered compared to other fourth-generation fighters. "You're talking about something that impairs its performance for an aircraft that already has some performance issues," Aboulafia says. "But it might be worth it, given the issue of finding an alternative to the F-35C. It's certainly worth experimenting with."

If the USN were to add CFTs to the F/A-18E/F, it might also have to upgrade the aircraft's twin General Electric (GE) F414-GE-400 afterburning turbofans which produce 22,000lbs (98 kN) thrust each, Aboulafia says. GE has previously touted an enhanced performance engine (EPE) variant of the F414, which could produce 26,400lbs (120 kN) thrust. It would, however, require a redesigned fan and a new high pressure core. But Aboulafia questions if GE can deliver on those promises. "I'm not sure how much more thrust you can get out of that series," he says. "Maybe there is a bit more they can go that would give them the power."

But given the US government's current financial situation, the USN may not be able to pay for a programme to add CFTs to the Super Hornet. "It will be difficult to start a new programme for this anytime soon," Gunzinger says. Aboulafia says that is true, but money could potentially be siphoned from the USN's F-35 accounts. "For a few people at least, especially the navy, the F-35 is as much a potential bill-payer as it is an acquisitions programme." Funding for the tri-service stealth fighter has been a bone of contention between the US Marine Corps and the blue-water navy for quite some time, Aboulafia says.


US Navy may add conformal fuel tanks to F/A-18E/F Super Hornet fleet

 

[sayareakd]

If iMOD thinks that paying for TOT they will learn how to make complete 4.5G fighter then they are dreaming. If you want to see heaven you have to be die first. By paying others you cant see heaven.

 

[ersakthivel]

How many aviation experts are ther in the MOD? The reason for the rot , is the bane of the IAS system ,which puts technical illiterates as babus in MOD and defence ministry with totally non technical defence minister. That is the reason that instead of logical development ,knee jerk purchase s of diverse system is moe appealing to the establishment.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I am confuse, What is going again ?
@rahulrds1, why are posting F-18 news in LCA thread?

 

[roma]

may i please suggest to re-define the poll choices bcos at the moment they are far too wide .....i.e multi-role is just too wide in this type of choice poll - ( i know the term is a valid one but in this context it is just too wide ) also deference the skies - too wide a term and air superiority ( im sure no one takes that too seriously ? - especially at this pre-commissioned stage ? )

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The poll is about the role of the Aircraft as it is design for..

The Question we have is what role that we think that LCA is design for ?

 

[rahulrds1]

i am confuse, what is going again ?
@rahulrds1, why are posting f-18 news in lca thread?

ge f 414 epe.

 

[WMD]

ge f 414 epe.

we not getting the EPE, we r getting the F414-GE-INS6,
which has the same thrust as F414-GE-400

 

[rahulrds1]

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/43717-ada-lca-tejas-iv-14.html#209
India's Naval LCA Flies but Needs More Power | Aviation International News

 

[rahulrds1]

LCA Tejas operating from Leh in the winter of 2013. Cold Weather Trials

 

[p2prada]

we not getting the EPE, we r getting the F414-GE-INS6,
which has the same thrust as F414-GE-400

F-414 EPE isn't in the development stage yet. F-414INS6 is India specific and may have higher thrust than the basic 98KN on -400. Seems to be an interim, between the EDE/EPE and the -400.

Decklander said the engine should pull out 110KN of thrust and I think 118Kn bump thrust. But Boeing's charts mentioned it being in the 98-100KN range.

 

[Decklander]

F-414 EPE isn't in the development stage yet. F-414INS6 is India specific and may have higher thrust than the basic 98KN on -400. Seems to be an interim, between the EDE/EPE and the -400.

Decklander said the engine should pull out 110KN of thrust and I think 118Kn bump thrust. But Boeing's charts mentioned it being in the 98-100KN range.

India wanted a 98-100KN engine, so INS6 is shown as having a thrust of 98-100KN. But it has been repeatedly stated by GE & Boeing that INS6 model will be based on EPE config with lower thrust. The EPE version will have118KN thrust. You may recall that 414 version fitted to Gripen also has diff name and diff thrust level but is basically an offshoot of 414.

 

[p2prada]

India wanted a 98-100KN engine, so INS6 is shown as having a thrust of 98-100KN. But it has been repeatedly stated by GE & Boeing that INS6 model will be based on EPE config with lower thrust. The EPE version will have118KN thrust.

I agree that it will be greater than the base figure of 98KN, but lesser than the 118KN.

You may recall that 414 version fitted to Gripen also has diff name and diff thrust level but is basically an offshoot of 414.

Their version is called F-414G. 98KN thrust. But that's only for the prototype Gripen Demo.

They recently received sanction for the Gripen NG. EPE is a possibility for this project, if not a Volvo/GE F-404 modified version like the RM-12.

N-LCA MK2 may very well have the actual EPE version to keep it on par with the AF-LCA MK 2s T/W, if the Navy thinks it matters.

 

[p2prada]

GE Brings Good Things To Hornet, Gripen

Wanted to add this to the post as well.

Alternatively (an option understood to be attracting interest at Saab) the EPE could be delivered with a 10 percent uprate and very generous temperature margins, extending its life and reducing fighter life-cycle costs.

Perhaps, this is what ADA has chosen for LCA Mk2. A 10% increase over the 98KN base version, rather than the 20% EPE version.

 

[Decklander]

GE Brings Good Things To Hornet, Gripen

Wanted to add this to the post as well.



Perhaps, this is what ADA has chosen for LCA Mk2. A 10% increase over the 98KN base version, rather than the 20% EPE version.

Yes, you are correct. This is what is headed to India for LCA. there is a very big possibility that this engine will weigh same as 404 so thr will be no change C of G the aircraft.

 

[WMD]

I agree that it will be greater than the base figure of 98KN, but lesser than the 118KN.

how much more than 98KN?
also how did u came to the conclusion that it will hav more than 98KN thrust but less than 118KN?

 

[p2prada]

how much more than 98KN?
also how did u came to the conclusion that it will hav more than 98KN thrust but less than 118KN?

Decklander suggested it and I also posted the values earlier. 110KN max thrust and 118KN bump thrust for take off when required, more specific to Naval version.

 

[rahulrds1]

LCA Tejas Cold Weather Trials in the winter of 2013

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Very Nice Video.

LCA Tejas Cold Weather Trials in the winter of 2013