ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[RPK]

India's light combat aircraft to phase out Russian jets | Industries | Industrials, Materials & Utilities | Reuters

NEW DELHI, Aug 28 (Reuters) - India will begin deploying its first locally made supersonic combat aircraft next year and gradually phase out its ageing fleet of Russian fighters, defence officials said on Friday.

Five Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) costing about $31 million each have already been manufactured by state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and undergoing trials, while eight more will be ready by mid-2010, defence officials said.

"We can say 2012 is the key for our air force when we will not only have many LCAs, but by then we should also be able to induct more advanced multi-role fighters in the fleet," said air force spokesman Wing Commander T.K. Singha.

India started field trials to buy 126 multi-role fighter jets last week, defence officials said, moving forward on a $10.4 billion deal to modernise the air force.

Boeing's (BA.N) F/A-18 Super Hornet, France's Dassault Rafale, Lockheed Martin Corp's (LMT.N) F-16, Russia's MiG-35, Sweden's Saab (SAABb.ST) JAS-39 Gripen and the Eurofighter Typhoon, produced by a consortium of European companies, are in the race for the contract, one of the biggest in play.

"So we are looking at a scenario, where we will be able to raise our squadron strength considerably with more power," Singha said.

India wants to increase its air force squadrons from 34 (612 fighters) at present to 42 (756 fighters) by 2020 with modern aircraft.

Twenty LCAs will be deployed by 2012 and the plan is to manufacture 20 more in coordination with the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), a DRDO official said in New Delhi.

"The LCA is now on track and the DRDO is very keen to produce more such aircraft indigenously," a DRDO spokesman said.

The induction of the LCAs was delayed by years of technical problems that forced scientists to go back to the drawing boards and rework the single-seat fighter's design and engines.

India's defence ministry began pushing for the LCA after the country lost nearly 200 Russian-made MiG series aircraft in crashes since 1990, blamed by the air force on manufacturing defects.

India, one of the world's biggest arms importers, plans to spend more than $30 billion over the next five years to upgrade its largely Soviet-era arsenal to counter potential threats from Pakistan and China.

"The LCA trials are in full swing and they could replace even the MiG 23 and MiG 27 if everything works to plan," said a defence official, who declined to be named because he is not authorised to speak to the media. (Editing by Jerry Norton) ([email protected]; Reuters Messaging: [email protected], +91-11-41781000))

 

[Kumar]

India's light combat aircraft to phase out Russian jets | Industries | Industrials, Materials & Utilities | Reuters

NEW DELHI, Aug 28 (Reuters) - India will begin deploying its first locally made supersonic combat aircraft next year and gradually phase out its ageing fleet of Russian fighters, defence officials said on Friday.

Five Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) costing about $31 million each have already been manufactured by state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and undergoing trials, while eight more will be ready by mid-2010, defence officials said.

"We can say 2012 is the key for our air force when we will not only have many LCAs, but by then we should also be able to induct more advanced multi-role fighters in the fleet," said air force spokesman Wing Commander T.K. Singha.

India started field trials to buy 126 multi-role fighter jets last week, defence officials said, moving forward on a $10.4 billion deal to modernise the air force.

Boeing's (BA.N) F/A-18 Super Hornet, France's Dassault Rafale, Lockheed Martin Corp's (LMT.N) F-16, Russia's MiG-35, Sweden's Saab (SAABb.ST) JAS-39 Gripen and the Eurofighter Typhoon, produced by a consortium of European companies, are in the race for the contract, one of the biggest in play.

"So we are looking at a scenario, where we will be able to raise our squadron strength considerably with more power," Singha said.

India wants to increase its air force squadrons from 34 (612 fighters) at present to 42 (756 fighters) by 2020 with modern aircraft.

Twenty LCAs will be deployed by 2012 and the plan is to manufacture 20 more in coordination with the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), a DRDO official said in New Delhi.

"The LCA is now on track and the DRDO is very keen to produce more such aircraft indigenously," a DRDO spokesman said.

The induction of the LCAs was delayed by years of technical problems that forced scientists to go back to the drawing boards and rework the single-seat fighter's design and engines.

India's defence ministry began pushing for the LCA after the country lost nearly 200 Russian-made MiG series aircraft in crashes since 1990, blamed by the air force on manufacturing defects.

India, one of the world's biggest arms importers, plans to spend more than $30 billion over the next five years to upgrade its largely Soviet-era arsenal to counter potential threats from Pakistan and China.

"The LCA trials are in full swing and they could replace even the MiG 23 and MiG 27 if everything works to plan," said a defence official, who declined to be named because he is not authorised to speak to the media. (Editing by Jerry Norton) ([email protected]; Reuters Messaging: [email protected], +91-11-41781000))

Wonders and with the new engine from either EADS\GE it will bring in more power and punch:2guns:

 

[icecoolben]

Boeing's capability is 40 a year, v r too slow here

$ 31 million a piece. So much for export potential, even the j-10 must be cheaper. we will be manufacturing 8 planes a year through 2014. Thats way too slow by any standards. Boeing is capable of producing 40 f-18 a month. I would expect atleast 18-20 a month.

 

[MitMeister]

^ LCA came a long way and India cannot manufacture a fully tested and trained aircraft till date, still its in its testing phase if not prototype phase. So producing 18-20 month is a myth. let us first get all the parts together.. Boeing is in the market for long and tested many flights... SO STOP COMPARING...

 

[John]

$ 31 million a piece. So much for export potential, even the j-10 must be cheaper. we will be manufacturing 8 planes a year through 2014. Thats way too slow by any standards. Boeing is capable of producing 40 f-18 a month. I would expect atleast 18-20 a month.

Firstly Boeing is a private company hence the push to deliver is crucial because they get money as they deliver, they dont like backlogs, HAL is govt. owned company, hence it can never achieve that kinda production rate unless there is a serious Govt. push, even at peak i don't expect more than 30 LCAs mk-2 in a year, the prototypes cost $30 million, the F-35 prototype costs a lot more than its targeted eventual peak production price. Once the aircraft gets FOC and the IAF gives a large order then we can easily get that price down to $25-$28 million besides in 2014 when LCA mk-2 production commences the aircraft will be the deadliest single engine fighter on the planet with MATV, AESA, EW suites, will be capable of deploying Indian, European, US and Russian weapons, hence $30 million is still a decent figure. The chinese junk even in 2014 will have trouble taking on our Bisons.

 

[abhi]

$ 31 million a piece. So much for export potential, even the j-10 must be cheaper. we will be manufacturing 8 planes a year through 2014. Thats way too slow by any standards. Boeing is capable of producing 40 f-18 a month. I would expect atleast 18-20 a month.

Boeing Super Hornet production started in December 1998 and it has now delivered its 400th copy as per the boeimg's website. So its 400 aircrafts in almost eleven years. How does that relate to the speculative capacity of 40 aircrafts a month.

Sir please do some research and comment further.

 

[Sabir]

Boeing Super Hornet production started in December 1998 and it has now delivered its 400th copy as per the boeimg's website. So its 400 aircrafts in almost eleven years. How does that relate to the speculative capacity of 40 aircrafts a month.

Sir please do some research and comment further.

Ignore the typing mistake dude.....in the heading it says 40 a year...

 

[icecoolben]

I meant to write 40 a year, so for 400 f-18s have been built. The reason for 8 an year tejas is that the production line cannot stay vacant after hal delivered the initial 40 tejas. Considering the tejas gets foc by 2012. The induction of the first eight starts then. It would take 5 more years through 2017 to deliver the two squadrans. Our mk-2 is supposed to fly by 2014-15, if it gets late, then by 2016. If v could get foc for the mk-2 by 2017, the production line can ramp up to deliver 10 a year, then further to 20 a year depending on the air-force absorbing capability. This is the extended time-frame of tejas. If v can't meet tejas mk-2 deadline by 2018. The project would be dead and will be on-top the drdo's hall of fame of failures.

 

[Sabir]

Starting from almost zero level and going through sanctions...what DRDO has produced we must be proud of them. Please remember the need and specification of air-force keeps on changing and our scientist did their best to match it. True, there are lot of spaces where improvement requires but atleast we are capable of 4th generation aircraft. I think its our strategic decision to maintain the learning curve with Tejas as we are capable of filling the present gap in inventory introducing any of the MRCA participant. Commercial production will be started only when the Tejas will fit for next decade. That time 30-40 aircrafts a year will not be much difficult.

 

[icecoolben]

But its not an university thats developing tejas to keeping the learning curve going. Its an institution to address indian defence needs. V should have worked with a single consultant and brought the project to conclusion. Lets see what happens to mk-2.

 

[wild goose]

LCA Or Bust, Or Whatever

September 2, 2009: India is determined to put its locally developed jet fighter, the LCA (Light Combat Aircraft) into mass production. Five prototypes already exist, and another ten pre-production models will be built next year. By 2012, mass production (at least 20 aircraft a year) is to begin, no matter what. Or at least that's the plan. For over two decades, India has been trying to design, develop and manufacture its own "lightweight fighter." India calls it the LCA, and the project has been a major disaster.

The U.S. F-16 is probably the premier "lightweight fighter" in service, and entered wide service about the time India began thinking about creating their own. Both the F-16 (at least the earlier models), and the LCA, weigh about twelve tons. But the F-16 is a high performance aircraft, with a proven combat record, while the LCA is sort of an improved Mirage/MiG-21 type aircraft. Not too shabby, and cheap (about half the cost of an F-16). Also, for all this time, money and grief, India has made its aviation industry a bit more capable and mature.

When work began in the mid-1980s, it was believed that the aircraft would be ready for flight testing by 1990. A long list of technical delays resulted in that first flight taking place in 2001. Corners had to be cut to make this happen, for the LCA was originally designed to use the Indian built Kaveri engine. For a jet fighter, the engine is the most complex part of the aircraft, and the Kaveri has had its share of setbacks. Fortunately, there was an American engine, the GE 404, that fit the LCA, and could be used as a stop-gap. The Kaveri engine is not expected to be ready for flight tests until later this year, or thereabouts. The American engine has been used in the meantime.

For all this, India only plans to buy 200-300 LCAs, mainly to replace its aging MiG-21s. Export prospects are dim, given all the competition out there (especially for cheap, second-hand F-16s). The delays have led the air force to look around for a hundred or so new aircraft (or even used F-16s) to fill the gap between elderly MiG-21s falling apart, and the arrival of the new LCAs. However, two decades down the road, the replacement for the LCA will probably be a more competitive, and timely, aircraft.

The LCA was not the first attempt to produce an Indian jet fighter. The HF-24 was an earlier attempt at developing a modern fighter. Designed by Kurt Tank (who also designed the FW-190 and Ta-152), the HF-24 was a failure because India could not develop a powerful enough engine. Thus the 147 HF-24s built, served from the 1960s, to the 1980s, as a ground attack aircraft.

Warplanes: LCA Or Bust, Or Whatever

Anyone got any idea regarding IAF's search for used F 16s?

 

[ppgj]

that was a bad writeup.once lsp-3 with the radar is integrated it should be on the fast track.hopefully with new engine for higher thrust,its low rcs(being tiny and with fair share of composites) it would be damn smart a/c in its class and will give a run for the money to even those of higher class.

 

[shankarosky]

making a modern combat aircraft is not easy but the amin poblem stills the engine - till that is proven -it remains a shall i say semi imported aircraft prone to sanctions any time

 

[SATISH]

Mismanagement, sanctions, unrealistic goal times...these contributed to the delay of LCA according to me.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

I think the biggest problem with LCA was attitude of DRDO that it(DRDO) wanted to do all by itself.

 

[ahmedsid]

[mod] Read the Thread from the 1st page before asking Questions. If after reading through the pages and you still Find the LCA a Failure, then back up your claims and You can stay here. [/mod]

 

[borgking82]

I'm sorry if this thread is off topic, but I would like to respond to nitesh's insightful posting regarding India's technological gap.

I think India missed one central technology no nation can afford to ingnore: Microprocessor technology. In fact, in my humble opinion, one of the two reasons the Soviet Union crumbled like they did was because of the lack of microprocessor technology - the other being their rigid economic system. It's high time India get down and start drawing plans for a local microprocessor industry. And not just for defense purposes only.

Coming soon: India microprocessor

Thanks.

 

[dineshchaturvedi]

Agreed. Why can't we see made in India Laptops and computers.

 

[s_bman]

LCA take more time for development.Chinise & Pakistan are telling that LCA is failure project.Is that true?Also told that hey Inidan see that Jf-17 its go to induction in a short time

read all the pages of this thread and decide for yourself

 

[p2prada]

and of Russia,CHina and India, India is the most backward as for material and machining.

I guess that's why we have a fighter with the largest amount of composites used in the world while China is still struggling to come up with anything of their own when it comes to all that "machining."

Edit: We have even sourced technology to Europe in metallurgy and machining. And are already working with the Russians on the PAKFA.